« first day (3150 days earlier)      last day (649 days later) » 

12:58 AM
 
1:45 AM
0
Q: The [customer] is always right. Unless it's a tag

Daniel WiddisI happened upon the customer tag today. It presently has 202 questions, 36 of which were created in 2022 (about 6 per month). The questions, predictably, revolve around eCommerce software. The top overlapping tags include php, magento (and magento2, magento1.9), and woocommerce. In all of thes...

 
2:00 AM
@TylerH Oh, interesting. How come? Is it too noisy?
 
@blackgreen I use this as the canonical target. Also, yeah, I wouldn't call that a typo. The JS canonical can be closed as a dupe of this one, since it's language-agnostic (and also explicitly mentions JS as well, fwiw).
Although I see Tyler has just edited the tags on the JS question to remove [javascript] and add [language-agnostic]. I'm fine with keeping either one open as the canonical, though I would vote to keep open the one that was language agnostic in the first place, since there's better, and more general answers on that one (though it has less score and views, indicating it might be easier to search for as a canonical target). Thoughts?
 
2:25 AM
Anyone know a good dupe target for How to set up run configuration on eclipse?? The current answers are... not great.
 
3:53 AM
So what if the same answer was the best answer for 2 questions? - You should probably flag that question as a duplicate instead of posting the exact same answer
 
4:15 AM
@WilliamK This room is not an appropriate place to complain about moderation actions. Users here can help explain them to you, but we will not allow rants. You can either flag your answer with your reasoning, post on Meta, or contact the company to appeal the moderation decision. In this case, you should have an explanation of why your identical answers (1, 2) are tailored to the question asked and why you believe that wouldn't make the questions duplicates.
Personally, I'd probably have left 2 and deleted 1 instead, since it seems less applicable to the question. You may request that in a flag, if you like.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, plus some move messages because I messed up the move the first time.
 
4:40 AM
@blackgreen There is a language-agnostic canonical I use for these: Why does non-equality check of one variable against many values always return true?
 
@cigien IMHO (cc @TylerH): that's not a good change. How you do it is different in different languages, so it can't really be language-agnostic. And having a long list of answers in every language that you have to search through pages and pages of is not a practical solution. We have questions like that; they're a disaster.
 
@RyanM Hmm, I don't generally use language-agnostic targets, but this seems to be one of the cases where it's a good idea, since the issue is the underlying logic, and adapting it to the syntax of a specific language, at least the ones listed here, doesn't seem too much of a stretch.
As to the linked JS post, the edit can certainly be rolled back if you feel it's more useful as a JS-specific canonical, since we already have a language-agnostic canonical if needed.
 
4:59 AM
Yeah, to be clear, I'm just referring to stackoverflow.com/q/6115801/208273, which consists mostly of JS-specific answers.
Heck, one of them requires jQuery.
 
5:24 AM
Hmm, actually that JS question is not exactly about booleans. It's just the exact inverse of Check variable equality against a list of values - negate the result of that to get an answer.
 
I'm not really a Perl Person but this looks like an "RTFM" dupe closure, to me. I seem to recall a mod suggesting these should be flagged ... any Perl People around to comment?
 
@AdrianMole not a real Perl person but this seems like a probable massive duplicate at the very least
 
@tripleee probably this one
 
I would certainly have left closed had that target been used. :-)
 
duckduckgo.com/… gets me a full page of probable duplicates
 
5:32 AM
... lazy hammers.
 
TBH I don't think a mediocre canonical is a reason for reopening. It should be left closed with "this question has been asked before"
 
But that assumes sufficient subject matter expertise on the part of the reopen reviewer. In my case, I had sufficient knowledge of the review system to recognize a likely RTFM.
 
Finding a canonical for an error message doesn't require expertise. The only thing I know about Perl is that once written down it looks like one of the (natural) languages I speak
 
But I admit I usually just skip reopen reviews that involve duplicates
 
5:52 AM
I don't know about reopening from a review queue specifically, but in the wild if I see a duplicate closure that's definitely wrong, I vote to reopen, unless there's a comment linking to a correct duplicate. I don't necessarily bother searching for a correct target myself.
 
On a not very related note: I have now been through 104 reviews in the Reopen Queue (counting "Skips") without encountering an audit. Normally, audits come on average at 1 in 20. Is there something awry? Or is this within the "random" parameter?
... I've been getting audits in other queues, though.
 
yeah if it stands out that the dupe target is really inapplicable, I bet none would object to reopening
I don't like RTFM closures either
speaking about Perl, there's a blog post out right now Why Perl is still relevant in 2022. The title made me chuckle a little
 
 
1 hour later…
7:10 AM
Wow, apparently I passed 10k close votes last night. Do I unlock the close vote tools now?
3
 
7:25 AM
Can we re-open this one? I think I know what the issue is after the question has been edited
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72892791/c-sharp-tactivator-createinstancetypeoft-param-calls-parameterless-constr
 
jps
Poor Spammer, says Welcome to our website but forgets to insert a link.
 
@jps spammers too have interns
first day on the job
 
jps
@SurajRao Do we need a help page "How to SPAM"? Rule 1: Don't forget a link or telephone number
 
Does this warrant a spam flag? Or is NAA/VLQ (link only) OK, along with the comment already provided about affiliation?
 
I would go with link only and a warning comment..
 
8:58 AM
(Aside: how are people intended to find the NATO page from the site interface, if they don't already know about it?)
 
@KarlKnechtel People are expected to read about their newly-earned privileges. If they do, they would find this page when checking their 10k privs.
... but even having read that, the NATO page is not a trivial thing to find. ;(
 
man, I couldn't even confidently tell you what year it was when I reached 10k rep.
 
@jps Sadly, the feature request for that is locked, so you can't upvote it :-(
 
jps
10:15 AM
 
jps
10:27 AM
The anwer to my question ^ is yes, see the link in the users profile.
 
10:38 AM
Is there any specific guideline how to handle such question. It is a simple question that could have been asked in 2-3 sentences while the OP rather tries to tell a story with a wall of unnecessary text and phrasing.
 
Wow, this may be the worst revision history I've ever seen: stackoverflow.com/posts/12429455/revisions
edits completely change the answer...twice!
 
Doesn't seem to have bothered the answerer, though (still active)
@tacoshy You could try to edit it. Or simply downvote ;)
 
I don't even know what to do with this. I rolled it back to the thing that it's been for most of the votes, and for the comments under the answer.
Definitely don't love someone editing a snarky answer like that into someone else's answer.
...funny though it was.
 
@RyanM I felt more like reading a chat. It felt some of the edits just edited to add a comment
 
@tacoshy yup...we even have a specific suggested edit rejection reason for that!
 
10:53 AM
The question has been closed as dupe for 9 years so they couldn't add a new answer, but maybe answer the dupe target or challenge its status as a dupe...
 
The latest edit reminds me of one of my favorite Stack Overflow answers.
 
I know but someone yesterday mentioned that some high rep users keep doing such stuff
 
Approving the edits, or making them?
Certainly the former, we've got lots of robo- or barely-more-than-robo-reviewers.
 
both, or other bad stuff. Like answering on questions that clearly do not meet the guidelines, giving link-only answers and such
and when going through the edit review queue I often find edits that only change 1-2 letters from lower to upper case...
 
Q in comment: You get this error where? OP: when i run the program Commentator: No kidding. I was thinking you got it while walking the dog.
 
11:09 AM
:D
 
11:24 AM
just review-suspended a couple more robo-reviewers in the suggested edits queue.
@tacoshy Great example of the medium: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/32146540 - but hey, they fixed one of the lowercase "i"s. Never mind the nine others.
Or this, from the "you failed to address the glaringly obvious problem" genre.
 
:D yeah ... I really find it hard sometimes if I should just reject or fixing 3-4 typos is already sufficient as improvement.
oh dear, I find it advertising his websites mixed with one opinion-based question at the end
 
Yeah, I try to be generous, but...that's just unhelpful. It's not worth anyone's time reviewing typo corrections in a massive stream-of-consciousness paragraph on a dupe of a FAQ where they fixed less than half of the typos.
The other one would've been fine if they'd taken two seconds to make the entire thing not italic.
 
@RyanM Do robo-reviewers generally get (very) long suspensions? Or do they get a "fair warning" the first time they're found?
 
11:41 AM
@AdrianMole Robo-review for science ;)
 
Yeah - I was just considering if it would be worth my while to take such a break. :)
 
11:56 AM
@AdrianMole Usually I give robo-reviewers what the system would - 2 days for the first offense
For ones where I think they're trying but just wrong, I'll go for 1 day (the minimum - I'd warn if the system let me, and I have an MSE feature request asking for that).
 
Oh, quasi-related... @AdrianMole you've done a whopping 109700 review tasks (wow!). How many audits would you guess you've done?
5
 
Dunno. Audits average around 1 in 20 (but that counts skipped reviews) ... 10,000?
 
Pretty close! 8615.
 
@RyanM You can add one failed audit from today. It was an embarrassing one, for me, as it's the type that I have often answered about on Meta: Hidden spam in an LQA audit. :-(
 
12:02 PM
Ouch...kicked that out of the audit pool with an R/A flag.
but yeah all 5 of their answers linked the site. bad audit.
Was afraid it was going to be my fault, as I know I've used the wrong flag a few times... wasn't, though :-)
The brief spree of plagiarism audits was my fault, though. I've learned not to cause those now...
 
I know those sort of audits are not popular but I still should have checked the link. So, you won't see me grumbling about it.
 
Not sure it could've been caught without seeing the other 4 answers.
 
I could have at least spotted that it was an audit.
 
...or checking SD, but that's cheating :-p
@AdrianMole sure, but you shouldn't have to...spotting that audits are audits is not (...okay, should not be) a useful skill for reviewing.
 
I wished it would be weekends ... I kinda miss the usual weekend questions
 
12:55 PM
Just curious, @RyanM, but what was your edit here. It seems to have "been removed during the grace period" but the post still shows that you edited it. (Had that been from a <2k user, I may have rejected it for not removing the "Hello, how are you?" ... but, hmmm.)
 
@AdrianMole I appended the NAA to the question, then changed my mind and decided it was actually a comment instead.
 
OK. Seems strange that the post still shows that you edited it, then.
 
I guess they don't want people to be able to completely conceal that they edited a post.
 
I'm always hesitant to flag an answer from a 16.8k user, but this is NAA, right? Even Natty reported it.
 
@AdrianMole yes. blatantly.
amusingly, the AdvancedFlagging autocomment assumes the user can't leave a bounty yet...had to edit that.
 
1:36 PM
@RyanM and 8600 of them were Haskell questions
 
Looks like a deletion rampage being reported in Sotty Boxics.
 
@cigien Yes, HNQ can be quite the distraction (especially RPG, SciFi, Law, Politics, or DIY questions appear there for me), and I also from time to time see spoilers for movies or something in there
 
@AdrianMole thanks, put a stop to that.
 
I am actually doing my job today instead of spending time in the flag queue. :)
 
@RyanM Fair argument about having to sort through answers to find one for your language (though that's exactly what that allegedly coming-soon feature of answer tagging should solve...) although I doubt there's really that much difference between languages on how you do logical or; it's the same in C, C++, C#, JavaScript, R, Java, Swift, PHP, etc.
I think the only major language where it's different is Python, and there it's literally just the word or instead
@Dharman I should probably get on that...
 
1:55 PM
@KarlKnechtel The 10k tools page is linked as "Tools" at the top right of the "Review queues" topbar popup.
 
@TylerH well, the currently top answer in Trending sort won't work in Java
 
2:21 PM
@RyanM It does specify it is for ECMAScript, not Java; specific implementations may vary, like this one which also includes a chained function, but the basic syntax of the or operation (||) is the same.
also I would not recommend Trending sort, it doesn't work well
I was using it for a bit until I noticed it wasn't actually accounting effectively for recent upvotes. I tested on a set of answers where one answer was showing higher at a total score of 1 (+1/-0) than another older answer with a total score of like 40 (also with no downvotes). I found two issues: first, even without me voting, the 40-score ans really ought to show above the 1-score ans.
Second, I upvoted the 40-score ans, and refreshed the page, and it didn't change the order, even though my 1 upvote was newer than the 1 upvote that the 1-score ans had that put it first.
So, basically it doesn't work in either way one would expect such a thing to work
 
@TylerH Which is exactly the way one expects things to work on SO ;)
 
@TylerH I'm not entirely sure what your expectations are for how/if/when things on SO work.
.. ninja'd by the Meta Queen. ;-)
 
2:45 PM
Say I stumbled across a user who hasn't been around for 3 years and has a dozen or so undisclosed affiliation links to their (former) website. The website is dead, so they can't possibly gain any advertising revenue. Some of the answers are on relatively highly viewed Q&As. Should I make more work for our diamond wielding friends? Or should I flag the link only ones as NAA and edit the link out of the ones that can stand on their own?
 
@IanCampbell If you spam flag one of their posts and report it to MetaSmoke, then Smokey will probably dig out their others, as a "blacklisted user".
 
They have a lot of other quality contributions--hypothetically. (Sorry, should have mentioned that in the opening vignette.)
 
@IanCampbell Then maybe just raise the issue in CharcoalHQ and see what the regulars there think about it.
 
Yeah, good idea. Thanks.
 
... you can link one of the posts in there with (reasonable) impunity.
 
2:55 PM
The problem is if I link one post, someone will get started flagging everything. Such is the danger of this room.
 
@IanCampbell That sounds like a good situation for an "in need of moderator intervention" flag and explaining the issue.
 
Alright, you asked for it. =)
 
As for the NAA, if they are NAA, then just flag them as NAA. They can be handled either through the review queues or by moderators.
 
Yeah, I'll try to clean up the mess as much as I can with regular user tools.
 
@IanCampbell Which is why I suggested CharcoalHQ - folks are rather less "hasty" in there. But Makyen's reply should be considered more authoritative, I guess. :)
 
3:10 PM
Remind me, can a NAA review task delete an accepted answer?
 
@IanCampbell If it has a nett score of zero or less, then yes.
 
Great, thanks
 
+1 or more score needs "moderator approval".
 
A post cannot have a score of more than 0 unless a moderator approves it
 
I doubt I'd make it past 1000 or so rep then =P
 
3:15 PM
@IanCampbell as far as I can tell, accepted answers flagged NAA/VLQ don't go to LQA review.
 
but good Ryan proberly is always happy to lend you a hand :P
 
I was thinking that I don't ever recall seeing a LQA answer task for an accepted answer. But I am over-trusting of Adrian.
 
@AdrianMole that post has never been flagged (although I'm not sure if flag history worked the same way back then?)
 
3:22 PM
@AdrianMole CharcoalHQ is good, but there tends to be a fairly strong reaction, even for cases of undisclosed affiliation which could use a response which is substantially less than nuclear.
 
Does anyone happen to know what mod feedback on flags is called in the UI? Is it flag feedback or helpful/decline reason or something else?
 
@HenryEcker Random response? xD
 
@HenryEcker It doesn't look exactly like this any more, but pretty close.
 
3:36 PM
@IanCampbell Ah so flag feedback maybe?
@IanCampbell gosh I wish the scroll to post worked =(
Got it. Thanks. Apparently flag feedback doesn't support mini-markdown like flag text does. I have a few flags which have unparsed markdown in them so I was going to put together a FR but I didn't know what to search for when looking for dupes.
 
There are some other good answers in that thread.
I found it by searching [moderator-tools] flag feedback.
@HenryEcker Another way to answer these questions would be to run in the next moderator election.
 
Think how much easier it is to delete things than flagging them for deletion
 
@IanCampbell That has been mentioned a few times already
@RyanM But you miss out on all of the fun sarcasting flag replies feedbacks
 
@HenryEcker You know we just have a reputation to uphold :-P
 
@HenryEcker Au contraire! You can read everyone's sarcastic flag feedback!
 
3:46 PM
Hey, I think it's only fair we all get to prod you at least once.
 
@RyanM Oh well now I'm sold XD
 
I actually don't know the rate at which other mods write sarcastic flag feedback
I do it from time to time
 
I don't think I'd even notice if you wrote feedback on a helpful flag of mine.
 
I seem to get a lot of them. (just looking at flags with feedbacks not as a portion of total flags)
@IanCampbell Yeah I once was directed to look at helpful feedback and I had to go back 14 pages to find it. Being able to sort by when the flag was handled would be very helpful.
6
 
@RyanM Cody and Dharman are probably repeat offenders ...participants
 
3:49 PM
@HenryEcker The most recent one you got was in fact me :-)
 
lol
 
Probably the mod least likely to be sarcastic in a flag response is Makyen
 
@TylerH The 200 character limit would never work for them anyway XD
 
Makyen actually has a bot that casts fake flags under other users' profiles in order to have more response room to write adequate flag responses
6
(I'm joking, but now Makyen's going to stay up at night wondering if that's possible...)
 
@HenryEcker Us 4 star-ers can all go consider this feature request.
 
3:52 PM
I have at least...twice? mod-messaged a user flag feedback. Once because I wanted them to answer a question related to the flag, and once because they were clearly not seeing the feedback based on their continuing to raise unhelpful flags.
it's an option when you really need them to read it :-p
 
Thanks
 
@IanCampbell I will strongly upvote consider that feature request =)
 
What do I do if I've already upvoted it?
 
Pat yourself on the back for being a trailblazer?
 
3:55 PM
@Spevacus Post a comment "BUUUUUMMMPPPP +1+1"
 
It was probably fine in its original form since it's clearly a "if you want this that's how to maybe someday get it" but I edited to avoid even the appearance of impropriety :-p
 
I added a bounty. Doubt it will help.
 
@Spevacus sockpuppetry
 
where?
 
Dharman's nose perked up like a bloodhound
 
4:01 PM
@RyanM I know this would be a complete overhaul, but a different approach (optimal world) It'd be nice if flags with feedback were included as a category "response" and appeared in the response tab
 
🚽
 
@HenryEcker Yes, flag feedback should really notify the user, IMHO.
 
@RyanM agreed
 
 
2 hours later…
6:13 PM
I have a few tag wiki edits that have been waiting in the edit queue for about a month now. Would someone mind taking a look at them? It is the scalar, temp, and honeypot tag wikis
 
I know it's frustrating to wait for tag wiki edits, but FAQ 15 notes that "you are involved if you are the author of the post or the author of the edit." So I don't think asking us to review is appropriate.
 
@GeneralGrievance Can't you read? It says clearly.
Don't forget to make the file swear an oath to you.
 
Sorry about that @IanCampbell. I just wish there was a way retract edits that get stuck in the queue indefinitely
 
6:25 PM
Yeah, that's annoying. Just 531 rep to go to 2k though.
 
18531 rep for tag wikis :^)
 
The "edit post anywhere" power is really nice.
 
Yeah, but at least you'll be able to make regular edits while tag wiki edits are pending.
I actually didn't know you were allowed to make cv-pls requests when there are recent suggested edits.
 
Yeah, though it's helpful to add that info to the cv-pls request, as it's not clear what the recent activity is otherwise (it doesn't show up in the "Activity" at the top of the page), and especially if the suggested edit has been declined.
 
I would have done that had Tyler not edited an answer.
 
6:38 PM
@IanCampbell Ah, I see. Yeah, if the recent activity shows up at the top of the page, it's not too important.
 
7:09 PM
@HenryEcker It doesn't work for you??
@HenryEcker Yes, the 200 character limit on those is quite frustrating. If I'm not using a pre-composed response, I routinely end up spending substantial time to get my response down to few enough characters to fit. Having a substantially higher character limit there would save me quite a bit of time. As it is, I have a list of responses which I've previously used and usually just select from those.
@TylerH I actually lol'ed. :)
 
:-)
 
@Makyen It is very inconsistent. It usually works the second time, but it frequently scrolls to the wrong answer. I don't know if it's a userscript conflict or something that would be an issue without them, but it's inconsistent and so that makes testing difficult.
 
@HenryEcker Hmmm... that doesn't sound good. I'm unlikely to be of assistance tracking that down, as I have one or more userscripts which alter that aspect of page loading under many conditions, so am less likely to have noticed an intermittent inconsistency in the base functionality.
 
7:28 PM
@HenryEcker If it helps (it probably doesn't) I experience a similar problem from time to time. It seems to scroll to a particular answer before loading images and any other height-consuming artifacts. After those load, it shoves the answer I wanted to focus on down. Most of the time this is deal-with-able. On posts with a bunch of answers, it makes it very difficult to find the answer I followed a link to.
 
7:49 PM
waaaah - who tooked SO offline for maintenance when I was just about to post an answer?
 
it is working for me
 
8:02 PM
@cocomac meh, not spam. Let's not red flag that
Sauce.
 
@rene For people that can't vote to delete, what is the preferred flag then? Blatantly off-topic works, but I prefer to get that type of question deleted as soon as possible
 
@cocomac just close vote. That is prio 1. Delete votes can follow then.
 
I guess: case resolved
 
To be clear: you sense urgency because of the contact link? Or just what?
I can see how a question like that could be the first step in some master plan to abduct someone (or worse)
 
@Spevacus That's actually very helpful. It also explains why it works the second time usually because the images would be cached and be available much closer to scroll time. Interesting, I could probably fix that behaviour I'll look into it. Thanks
 
8:05 PM
@rene Alright, I'll do that next time. Thanks!
 
@HenryEcker No problem. Good luck!
 
I like those gone sooner than normal off-topic ones both because of the contact link, but also because who knows if they have good intentions. Although I guess I shouldn't red flag that (I didn't know that, but I don't mind), I feel they are both so off-topic (and who knows what the OP's intent was), I like them gone, simaler to how we handle job offers
(That's just my personal opinion - I'm happy to not red-flag though, and just Flag to Close though)
 
If you can make a clear case for the potential for malicious intent, a custom flag seems appropriate to me. But definitely not a spam flag.
 
🤔
 
8:34 PM
Relevant Meta discussion: Are job offers spam?
One interpretation is that the question author wanted to hire some "friends" to help them collaborate and learn. Although in this case, a bit of restraint was probably in order.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:29 PM
@HenryEcker Oh, you didn't say that it initially scrolled to the right place. That's a substantially different thing. :; Yeah, it's something that's solvable by having a userscript which re-scrolls to the right place after the page is actually ready. I do that in my personal base SE adjustments, both before and after making changes to the page, which is why I wouldn't have noticed any current intermittent issue and wouldn't be able to help tracking the reason for the intermittent issue down. Having looked back over that code, part of it looks like I probably experienced a similar issue to what you're describing; got annoyed; and made certain that wasn't going to happen again (i.e. the code looks more like I used a sledgehammer than a scalpel :; ). Another part is that I do make substantial changes to the page, at least on meta sites, which require re-scrolling to the right place, so the scrolling to the hash target is actually implemented in more than one place.
 
11:16 PM
 

« first day (3150 days earlier)      last day (649 days later) »