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12:40 AM
(And yes, I do recognize that my rate of requests for the last few days has at times gotten close to the limits of what is reasonable)
 
(actually, apparently I can't retag and hammer any more. Lots of old stuff that doesn't actually need to be 2.x specific....)
 
@KarlKnechtel I agree with your dupe, but I wonder if the dupe could be edited to improve the clarity of its application, e.g., "How to return a list of data from a for loop"
@KarlKnechtel yeah, the tag has to be originally added by someone who is not you
 
you mean the target? I'm mostly leaving titles alone on stuff that I close unless it's really bad, because I want to cover the bases of what people might search for
 
Yeah, the target.
Agreed on the ones you're closing.
 
12:51 AM
I've been scolded for editing titles on popular targets before, because (apparently) some people rely on idiosyncratic wording to find them for closure.
 
That's what bookmarks are for
 
(I agree, but tell that to room 6)
 
^ that, and also that's a terrible reason not to...
Although I admit to finding them the same way sometimes
 
As do I at times
 
We definitely shouldn't have worse titles on questions for the sake of closing convenience, though.
 
12:53 AM
But if someone edits the title I just teach myself to search for the new title rather than complain.
 
Perhaps we could workshop the title then. I don't want to rely on the asker having "list" in mind, because beginners won't necessarily model the problem that way. But it should probably be in there.
Proposed: How can I use return to get back multiple values from a for loop? Can I put them in a list?
 
I like that
 
Me too
But of course both Ryan M and I are not beginners so can't really think like them
 
(I might edit the question a bit later to make it less idiosyncratic to OP. It seems like the top answers used generic examples anyway.)
 
@KarlKnechtel Yeah, it's currently the first result for "python put output in list" on Google...but the second result's better, so let's get rid of this one.
 
1:12 AM
I don't think I got the better second result that you did.
 
I got this one
 
 
1 hour later…
2:43 AM
> I’m voting to close this question because F
 
Very nice.
Well, they can't say the mods don't have a sense of humor.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:55 AM
press F to pay respects
 
@Spevacus I don't think anyone who knew us would ever say that.
 
@cigien I feel like there could be a non-terrible answer to that, but it's not there or on stackoverflow.com/questions/1091775/…...
which is somehow worse...
On the other hand, it says both and , which is a contradiction.
And before anyone objects: no, that's .
So...I'm just going to delete that.
I deleted a bunch of the less useful answers on the other one. The remaining ones are still not particularly useful, though...
 
4:15 AM
Hmm, I figured you'd delete this one as well.
Odd that there isn't a good answer to the question, given how popular it is.
 
@cigien Honestly I thought that was one of the better ones, at least it says what APIs to look at! The one I want to delete next most is the accepted answer, because what on earth does "And this API can provide to you manufacturer of notebook and battery or battery charger support this." mean?
> One thing you can try is a busy loop (burning power like mad) that checks the battery level and sleeps for a bit once it gets down to the target level.
missing. the. point.
also won't even work with the stock charger on nearly any reasonable device, because they can supply power faster than the device can drain it.
(yes, there are exceptions, but also it's genuinely difficult to consume that much power, and you'll need more than a busy loop)
 
Are there? Wouldn't those, by definition, be non-reasonable devices?
It wouldn't work, though, because operating systems no longer allow applications to be completely stupid.
 
@CodyGray I have heard reports that it's possible to get some MacBook Pros to do this.
 
A lot of those questions look uncomfortably close to being general-computing.
 
A lot of what we do is general computing, we're just writing code to do it, so that makes it programming.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:28 AM
@CodyGray But actually it can be reasonable to allow this: it allows the device to use the battery to supplement the power from the AC adapter, allowing it to perform at its maximum capacity (thermals notwithstanding) even if that would otherwise draw more power than the adapter could supply. As long as you don't allow it to completely drain the battery that way, that makes the device more useful, not less.
And there are (well, were) good reasons for using an adapter with less power than the machine can draw. Until recently, USB-PD was capped at 100W.
 
Err... as far as I know, most batteries can't be both charged and discharged at the same time.
 
So if you want USB-PD charging and you don't want to have a second, proprietary charging port (Dell does this, but Apple does not), you might reasonably choose to have a laptop that can consume >100W without a charger capable of that.
@CodyGray Honestly, I'm unsure how it actually works, but it definitely slows the battery drain. My assumption is that the power-management system is combining the power from the adapter with supplemental power from the battery, rather than doing some sort of simultaneous charge/discharge.
 
Yeah, it's discharging the battery while also drawing power from the wall. No charging is going on.
So it's ultimately unsustainable, but the battery can deliver some "burst" power if needed, while running on an undersized adapter.
 
Yeah, exactly.
It's useful.
 
I think I've yet to see a laptop that draws more than 100 W of power.
 
5:34 AM
I also do this with my Dell work laptop, because I only have a 60W USB-PD adapter (the device comes with a 130W adapter, but it turns out there's a lot of travel-related stuff that really doesn't like having a 130W adapter plugged into it, so I usually leave it at home...).
They don't normally but it can apparently happen if you manage to use all the hardware at once.
Also technically I think the MBP charger in this story was only 90W.
I'm not sure why it was 90 and not 100.
 
Then again, I'm one of those people who use laptops for things that need to be run in my lap or otherwise on the go, not because I'm unaware that desktop computers exist.
Because the MBP charger before it went USB-C was 90 W :-)
 
Oh. Yeah, that's probably why.
 
Note that what you're describing about using the battery to supplement the wall charger is putting a higher than anticipated load on the battery, in terms of charge-discharge cycles, which is how a battery's life is (principally) determined
 
 
1 hour later…
6:57 AM
@eyllanesc agreed, also arguably POB
 
7:30 AM
 
7:41 AM
 
8:08 AM
I finally found a viable strategy for answering low-quality, on-topic questions for which I can't find duplicates, before useless answers get posted by others. Answering myself as Community Wiki. It was right in front of my eyes all the time...
 
@blackgreen Why is answering as yourself not viable?
 
@StephenOstermiller How can I put it... I prefer for my rep to come from contributions that fit my definition of "useful". Well-asked questions that I would upvote if I were looking them up myself
For example, this one totally does not fit my definition of "useful". But it's not a dupe...
 
@blackgreen I don't understand how this is supposed to prevent others from posting useless answers. Are you expecting them to notice that there is a community wiki answer available to edit? At the speed the FGITWers operate at?
 
If I'm that FGITW but manage to fast-gun a correct response, then the deal is done
 
@blackgreen Not sure why that question wouldn't be useful. I'm not a go programmer, but if I encountered that error in Go, I would say WTF and search SO.
 
8:25 AM
@StephenOstermiller the Go ecosystem includes few and very accessible tutorials, plus the Go normative reference is an extremely easy read, compared to that of many other technologies (e.g C++ with all its language-lawery thing). Questions about Go's basic syntax are often perceived as rather useless and poorly researched.
As the votes on that particular question show
+3/-4 though... bah...
@KarlKnechtel and yes, to answer your first question, I think the presence of an already correct upvotable answer is sufficient deterrent for others to post poorer ones
 
@blackgreen Remind me never to program in Go. The language is named so badly that you effectively can't use Google to find solutions specific to it. I was trying to see if I could search for something that would bring up one of the tutorials you mention, but I can't. Searching "go missing return if without else" is finding Java and C++ results.
 
yeah that's very annoying, folks basically have to use the wrong name "golang" instead, like 70% of askers in here do
 
its a dupe for a question they asked yesterday
New user.
 
9:15 AM
All bugs on this site can be explained by caching. Not all of them will go away if caching would be turned off though. — Gimby 46 mins ago
 
9:32 AM
(who upvotes questions like this?)
 
Probably another case of upvotes from "buddies".
 
9:58 AM
@KarlKnechtel I upvote anything with the words "manual gear shifter" in the title. Specially on a programming forum ...
 
You must've been waiting a while, as this is the first post on Stack Overflow to use that phrase anywhere in the post! ...which, honestly, is slightly surprising.
 
You have to earn my upvote ...
 
10:24 AM
Pancakes.
 
10:46 AM
It is amazing that answers can get 50 or more upvotes when they lack code formatting that causes important parts of the answer not to show up because markdown drops the HTML tags in the code.
 
@StephenOstermiller That's just the bonus content.
 
lol, yeah
 
11:04 AM
 
jps
11:28 AM
@StephenOstermiller (didn't see which question you refer to) but also strange that often such formatting errors stay there for many years and no one bothers to edit them out.
 
11:38 AM
@jps Neither of these are the worst I've seen, but made some HTML visible in each of them just this morning first example and second example
 
11:56 AM
Interesting opinion based question I stumbled upon, been around for 6+ years and got a new answer just now and one 22d ago. LOL stackoverflow.com/q/37217786/3889449
 
@MarcoBonelli I looked at the title and I thought the question might have some merit. If there is special naming that might be relevant. But then the very question explained that - no, there wasn't.
 
12:39 PM
 
1:55 PM
Does this answer count as a link-only answer or is it sufficient?
 
2:07 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
3:08 PM
@tacoshy as far as I go "You could use flexbox in combination with the order property for that." is enough to be considered an attempt to answer, hence not flaggable (but you are free to vote as you wish)
@mickmackusa yes, the attribution and formatting is not correct either (+ it's NAA if all the answer is copied even with correct attribution)
maybe they copied less than I taught first but still...
 
4:12 PM
@mickmackusa In general, no. Getting irritated in your spare time isn't any good. Only get irritated when you get paid for it, big.
3
 
@Vickel I would say yes because it's a non-obvious NAA.
 
^done
 
4:51 PM
"please give me solutions as soon as possible."
 
5:38 PM
@tripleee The suggested duplicate isn't for Python.
 
@cigien ooops, my bad, posted a new comment with a better duplicate
 
That one looks good, thanks.
 
6:59 PM
not in a place where I can see the Roomba forecaster, anybody around who can quickly check stackoverflow.com/questions/72775701/… please?
 
i found a bug
 
@tripleee It'll roomba in a week.
 
i have a flag that was marked helpful on an article comment, but on my flag page, that entry is missing a link to the article
no title, no nothing
 
@cigien thanks!
 
np
 
8:32 PM
@KarlKnechtel what about a dupe instead? stackoverflow.com/questions/3820312/…
 
jps
@blackgreen Programming must be hard when your keyboard only works in ALL CAPS mode.
 
nah
just use a language where that's not a problem
like coldfusion
 
If they wrote "empty version image" in caps too I probably would've upvoted
 
jps
@KevinB no joke, very often these ALL CAPS questions are tagged SQL
or the other ways around, SQL questions are often written completely ALL CAPS
 
i wanted to say fortran but i don't actually know anything about fortran other than there's a meme about it being a language for people who just want to scream
 
jps
8:38 PM
some decades ago I even learned FORTRAN77
 
I tried to learn it once for minecraft
for a mod called redpower
 
9:18 PM
@blackgreen that looks pretty good, thanks
I know we like to snark about this, and that it's legitimately annoying for native speakers

but there are a **lot** of people from cultures where the native script lacks a concept of uppercase and lowercase, and many of these people find the uppercase Roman letters easier to read and distinguish (for one thing, they don't include all four variations of a line sticking (above/below) from the (left/right) side of a circle)
we should continue to fix and/or criticize these things, but we should also understand that it often doesn't come from a desire to grab attention
(also if you suspect that someone is not a native speaker, that is even more reason to speak/write plainly for the sake of effective communication)
 
this is actually a good point
the visual strain and reading fatigue caused by unfamiliar scripts is a real thing
 
I sent a bad edit. Can someone reject it? I didn't realize they had changed the title since I originally made it (the queue was full then, but I didn't refresh to see the title change). Sorry!
 
haha that original title tho
 
9:36 PM
 
@cocomac It's rejected now, but note that requests for actions where you're involved aren't permitted. The potential for abuse is much less if you want it rejected, but still it's still better to avoid it.
 
jps
@KarlKnechtel thanks for the input. Really something to consider.
 
@cigien Sorry about that, I'll go through the rules for SOCVR again. Thanks for the reminder!
 
np.
Relatedly, I just realized individual sub-bullets can be linked, and it's been possible for months. Thanks Makyen :)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:35 PM
@cocomac We're happy to take these sorts of requests over in Bad Stack Overflow Reviews - don't worry, we won't ban you for admitting mistakes ;-)
@StephenOstermiller Musing: I wonder how hard it would be a write an SEDE query that finds such posts...
@KarlKnechtel TIL! thanks for sharing that, I was totally unaware of that.
 
11:52 PM
(I'm a little surprised how little-known/realized it is, honestly)
 
Personally, it always surprised me that anyone didn't find it harder to read, given the substantial decrease in distinguishability of letters. But I somehow never thought about the fact that if you aren't familiar with the script, then adding all those extra versions of glyphs would make it harder, not easier, to read.
It's still mildly surprising, even knowing that, that they find the uppercase glyphs easier to distinguish than the lowercase ones.
Partly due to the greater variation in lowercase glyphs giving you more things to distinguish by, but also due to lowercase glyphs being just a lot more common in writing.
and you'll always get away with writing your english sentences entirely in lowercase, even if you should have used some capital letters.
 

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