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user17242583
1:20 AM
On so many of these questions I'm deleting, one of the CVers became a mod. Zoe, Machavity, Makyen, Cody...
 
1:32 AM
 
user17242583
@RyanM Don't take this as asking you to take any action: I'm curious - why did you delete one of those Q's but not the other? Letting others decide for the one that's maybe less blatantly off-topic?
 
@richardec Generally, my perception of whether it clearly has "no lasting value whatsoever". The one I didn't delete seemed like it had some interesting information in it. Also, mod deletions are irreversible except by other mods, so I generally avoid deleting unless it's very clear-cut.
 
user17242583
Interesting points. The second one alone is a very good reason not to delete everything on the site on sight ;)
 
user17242583
1:58 AM
@richardec hah, that one ^^ was closed by Machavity and Makyen!
 
2:12 AM
@richardec In response to a cv-pls it seems
 
 
2 hours later…
4:06 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
5:46 AM
 
6:19 AM
 
6:36 AM
guys is this very low quality answer? stackoverflow.com/a/72417957/9109560
 
it's more like NAA
 
thanks
 
@Cristik looks like attempt at an answer. What am I missing?
 
The question lacks MRE or is typo (the pen was updated after the comments)
 
I agree, it neither looks like VLQ nor NAA. A flag would likely get declined
 
6:47 AM
it maybe an incorrect or poor answer... Not NAA
 
@SurajRao "if you copy codes using the dev tool, it will work." sounds more like "write the correct code and it will work", so this part adds no value to the answer. If we ignore it, we're left with a link to an image
and links to images barely make an answer
 
VLQ and NAA flags are for posts that are not attempts at answering a question (link-only answers, unless the question asks for them, are also NAA because SO wants to be the place where you find answers and not just links to them), something like "Thanks! You answer helped me" or "I have the same problem. Did you find a solution?". For answers like the linked one, downvote and and maybe del-pls requests are the more correct choice.
 
@JeanneDark that's why I recommended NAA in that case, having a useless sentence next to a link doesn't make it a non-link-only answer
 
@Cristik That's why NAA flag is the wrong choice and I would expect such a flag to be declined
 
I voted to delete.. Doesnt look like it is a good answer.. Dont think a flag will be accepted
 
yeah, VTD works faster, especially if it's accompanied by a del-pls request here
@JeanneDark so what you're basically saying is that an answer like "You can find the solution [insert-the-link-here]" should not be catalogued as a link-only answer, and thus not be flagged?
just because has some extra text besides the link?
 
@Cristik No, obviously not.
 
I almost never evaluate an answer before the question. If the question is not worthy of keeping, then the efforts on the answer are a double effort
 
NAA, VLQ or just downvote? stackoverflow.com/a/72421557/9473764
 
7:15 AM
@Nick NAA// link only to a site with regex from the question
 
The question lacks focus and clarity. The answer says go to the site and look at least at the result
Could have been a comment
 
@Vega should
 
answer says "use this site to debug your regex"
 
which doesn't answer the question. It's like saying "read this blog to answer your question"
 
7:33 AM
stackoverflow.com/a/72421699/4826457 NATO here.. Does it look like it is adding anything? Not an expert on swift
The question might be typo based on OP's comment
 
@SurajRao should we also flag for plagiarism?
 
@Cristik Because they plagiarized themselves?
 
@Cristik looking at the timestamps maybe fastest gun in the west problem
may not be intentional plagiarism..
You could flag I guess
 
The usernames are the same, so probably the same person with two different accounts. I guess they got confused
 
ohh that too
 
7:36 AM
if they are the same person, likely no plagiarism was involved :)
 
The one form the answer you posted here is unregistered, the other one isn't
Maybe they thought something hadn't worked and that's why the reposted it
Also note that unregistered accounts cannot delete their own posts, so once they had posted the now deleted answer, they couldn't do much about it
 
8:08 AM
 
@SurajRao I don't even know what that's suppose to be responsive to...
 
@RyanM the q was posted in 2017.. now its 2022
 
and they...find that hard to believe, I guess?
 
thats what I figured
 
 
2 hours later…
10:02 AM
hi, i've flagged my question to be moved to superuser but it's not moved yet and just accumulated close votes.. could any moderator here move it to superuser please? thanks stackoverflow.com/questions/72420181/…
 
@barlop did you mod flag it or just flagged it for closure?
 
@karel wont that roomba?
 
@SurajRao Oops.I didn't know that it would be Roomba'd automatically.
 
@barlop If your question has no answers, you can just delete it here, and re-ask it there yourself. The moderators don't like doing moves unless there is an answer that should get moved along with the question.
 
10:25 AM
@Nkosi are you sure? Isn't the answer to that question just a number between 1 and x ?
 
10:46 AM
For experts: Is this question possibly a duplicate of this question? I noticed that the author of the new answer just copy-pasted someone else's accepted answer from the older question.
 
10:58 AM
Seem to have an interesting relationship with the commenter ;)
 
@JeanneDark The copied answer isn't attributed properly. It has a link to original, but doesn't mention the name of the author with a link to their user profile as required by Attribution Required - Stack Overflow Blog
 
@StephenOstermiller I agree. Not the only suspicious looking thing going on there.
 
@JeanneDark I hammered it but I suppose the OP might still clarify that this is different somehow; the Docker mention in the title is not elaborated at all in the question, so perhaps needs details or clarity instead
 
Thanks
 
11:53 AM
both posts
 
@JeanneDark I ended up reopening after they edited, though still not very clear
 
twitter user?
maybe I have a bias
 
12:10 PM
which flag we use for "Request for Off-Site Resource"?
 
blatantly off topic flag gets converted to a list of reasons once you get close voting privileges
@SurajRao can also be closed as duplicate. (Links in the comment)
 
 
2 hours later…
1:56 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis mmm deleting a question answered by Jon Skeet, you know that we're going to get our accounts destroyed soon right :D
 
2:35 PM
Ack, sorry, forgot the -
 
2:47 PM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine np. Just FYI: Aliases
 
are we sure we want to delete this very informative answer: "If you think Apple is going to rule the world someday, Objective C."? :)
 
user17242583
lol
 
user17242583
Also "With the new TR1 and C++0X additions"
 
3:06 PM
 
user17242583
If I were to raise a mod flag asking for this question to be locked, and all but its top-answer deleted, would it be done?
 
user17242583
3:22 PM
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Maybe we should invert the duplicates - i.e., since one has images of the code and the other actually has text, make the images one, though older, a dupe of the text one.
 
@richardec Yea, good idea...
@richardec Done.
 
user17242583
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman But the older one has an answer...
 
:|
Okay both are low quality. Let's leave a comment and close both.
 
user17242583
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Good idea. It's all a mess.
 
@richardec 👍🏻
 
3:33 PM
@BendertheGreatest I didn't realise Magic Editor was doing this.
 
3:50 PM
@VLAZ Yeah, I thought I only had the SOCVR helper installed, but turns out I had also installed Magic Editor at some point as well. I del'd that question on Meta since it's not an issue with the site.
 
4:06 PM
@BendertheGreatest In general, clicking the {} icon above the editor textarea can be used to indent/outdent the lines of code which you're selected. To get the operation which you happened to want at that time, you may need to temporarily add a line at the beginning of the block either with or without some text, depending on if you want to increase or decrease the indent.
BTW (based on the use case you mentioned in the deleted MSO question): Unless there's a functional reason to be switching between the different Markdown syntaxes for code blocks of using three backticks and 4 space indent, then whatever the OP used should be preferred (i.e. we shouldn't be switching between equivalent Markdown syntaxes, just because we personally prefer one over the other).
I'm only mentioning this because of the use case you mentioned in the MSO question. I have no idea why you're actually making such a change (and don't really desire to spend the time to look through a bunch of edits to find out). There are definitely legitimate reasons for making such changes when there's a functional difference, so my saying anything about changing Markdown syntaxes here could be irrelevant.
 
^ as Makyen says, don't change from indentation to code fences if that's the only change. It's valid to do that if you're doing other changes. For example, if you need to supply a language hint, then you'd want a code fence.
With that said, I find the {} button woefully inefficient. It's a crude workaround. Some times code is indented too much and you need to bring it down 2-3 levels. Some times it's indented 2 spaces (in a code block) and you want to unindent to zero. But the code formatting button only toggles between 2 and 6 spaces.
 
Yeah, it's OK/useful in limited circumstances. OTOH, I've definitely been known, from time to time, to copy the code into a real editor, format it there, and copy it back.
 
4:24 PM
@VLAZ @Makyen I'm not only making that change when editing. But I have been making that change if there are other improvements to the post, for the purpose of providing a specific language to highlight. But I agree, that is not a substantial enough edit to make on its own.
As for the case where the OP puts too many indents, I don't remove those. I don't touch the code OP provided except when converting the code block type to change the starting column of each line of text.
 
At any rate, Magic Editor includes the stackexchange-tab-editing script. Unfortunately, it seems that script itself needs an update. I installed it separately right now to try it and it does not seem to work on the review edit screen. I assume because the edit area is hidden at first and shown later.
 
4:42 PM
@BendertheGreatest That's not all I'm saying. I'm saying that you shouldn't make that change, unless there's a functional reason to do so. Basically, if there are effectively similar ways of representing things, then how the OP chose to do it, should be preferred and not changed, unless there's a functional reason to change it, or the OP was inconsistent in their usage.
It's very similar situation to not changing the variant of English which the OP is using (e.g. British English vs. American English, etc.), or not changing a mostly-consistent code indenting style, just because we happen to like one type of representation better than another. We can change those things, if the OP uses them inconsistently, but then we should pick the representation type which the OP primarily uses and apply that consistently.
[For indenting style, it should at least be consistent within each code block, and usually consistent across code blocks which contain the same language or that are from the same project (i.e. different projects may use different indentation styles).]
 
@Makyen I'm not understanding why providing a specific language to highlight isn't considered a "functional reason to do so". It's not a case of "triple backticks are better"; it's "explicitly telling the site to render a particular language is better". This is especially true for posts which use languages in code blocks that are not on a tag on the question (e.g. a python question or answer could also contain blocks of json or general text)
 
Also for TS questions, since the TS tag uses the syntax highlighting for JS...
 
@BendertheGreatest I think we might not quite be communicating. I took the addition of "But I agree, that is not a substantial enough edit to make on its own." at the end of your last message to imply that you were making such changes to the way the Markdown was indicating code blocks without a functional need. I understood it that way, because an edit which has the sole purpose of applying the correct syntax highlighting is a perfectly acceptable edit on its own.
Yes, it's preferred that any other issues are addressed at the same time, but if the only thing that the post needs is to have the correct syntax highlighting applied, then you should go ahead and make that edit, even if there's nothing else that needs changing.
 
5:06 PM
Thanks for clarifying @Makyen. I think we are on the same page.
 
Sounds good. :;
 
@Makyen That last report could use a nice comment explaining why the deletion was necessary, I think
 
Yes, I was planning on it and had the tab open. I'm more than happy for you to to do the honors, if you'd like.
 
@Makyen I made an attempt. I know you would do much better.
 
5:25 PM
@Dharman OK. Thanks for telling me. Your comment is just fine. I did get side tracked, so was only a short way into writing something when I saw the notification of a new comment being posted. Another time, in a similar situation, I'd appreciate you mentioning that you're going to go ahead and take care of it, so I can just close the tab and forget about it (i.e. so we don't duplicate any effort by either of us).
Actually, your comment is probably a bit more sympathetic than mine would have been. While I would have expressed sympathy, I was planning to focus more just on the reasons it's not appropriate to post something like that here on SO.
A large part of that is that I am, at this point, fairly cynical regarding people publicly telling sob stories while, effectively, asking for money. There are, unfortunately, a huge number of scammers who are trying to capitalize on the current situation, to the point of substantially overshadowing legitimate cases (of which there are way to many). My "scam" radar would have been substantially less triggered if the person hadn't explicitly given the email address they use with PayPal.
 
@Dharman the man is alive :D
I thought you only hanged out in mod chatrooms and had forgotten about the commoners in SOCVR :D
 
@bad_coder I'm sorry I was giving off that vibe. I feel like I was in the room for most of the week, but if don't see me making cv-pls, it may feel like I am absent.
 
No, we know you're here :)
 
@Dharman hey no vibe given, it's just that I missed the old times having you around more.
@Dharman are you enjoying being a mod? Are you still learning the ropes or have you figured out all the in's&out's?
 
I think I got the hang of most of it. Some of the aspects of being a mod are very exhausting. It doesn't help that many mods in the team do much less than others, but this is due to a number of factors in their personal lives. The ones who can spend some more time do a lot of work, but the number of flags in the queue keeps on growing.
Some flags are very enjoyable to handle
Some, and I am looking at unfriendly bot, are much less enjoyable
There are 343 auto-flags at the moment from that bot.
 
user17242583
5:38 PM
I think this should be deleted, but it's historically locked. It's POB, off-topic, and not very valuable in my opinion. What do you guys think?
 
In the past 2 months, every mod handled at least a couple of flags.
 
@Dharman ouch, that alone is a serious workload by the numbers!! And it's just 1 dimension of the mod chores.
 
user17242583
@Dharman That's nice to know; I've been noticing some mods are into answering questions and all that lately...very good to know they're still using their diamonds :)
 
@Dharman that's what I was hoping to hear, that you're happy with the appointment and with what you're doing!
 
Something I wasn't aware before is how many flags mods actually have to decline.
I think I have declined more than I have ever got declined flags of my own.
 
5:42 PM
@Dharman I recall (about 2 years) we talked about the recent polemic of the "accept comments" and you were of the opposite opinion as me. (I assume you read my MSO post - which was worded strongly but expressed one of my essential reservations).
 
@bad_coder I don't think I remember that far back
 
@Dharman I remember (no need to go digging in the chat transcripts but it was one of the rare occasions we talked in your NLN chat room).
Anyway, we were both short on time so it was a very brief exchange of impressions. We didn't get to debate it in depth - no where near it. And perhaps it's for the better since the broader community should do that work (we don't have to brainstorm everything).
 
I saw the banner recently, that asked me to accept an answer as a new user and I think the banner is sufficient to educate new users.
The comments range from very friendly to very unfriendly, but what I observed is that the unfriendly ones tend to mimick the friendly ones in a lame way. So while some of them can be ok, I think we don't need any such comments.
 
@Dharman I also saw the banner on other SE sites where I have open questions (the answers don't really solve the problems). In a nutshell I'm of the view it's much to easy to dismiss those banners and "reaching out" isn't necessarily a bad thing.
@Dharman well, that's the interesting part of human action - it can be good or bad depending.
The thing with freedom is not having blanket rules that forbid potentially good or harmless actions.
 
In the past 7 days, mod team has deleted ~10k comments
 
5:48 PM
@Dharman but anyway, I'm going to take some time off curation until the end of the year. For personal reasons and also in disagreement with a number of things about SE.
 
This is a lot of clicking
 
@Dharman I have no doubts about that, just VC 50 posts/day can be exhausting..!
@Dharman I was going to just reduce my participation without letting anyone know. But I think it's better to announce my intention than leave folks wondering about it. Also, because -as I've said recently- I do hold a number of regulars as friends and people I respect so that's one of the better take-aways for me from this site.
@Dharman I feel divided between knowing the curation makes the site better for everyone - and thus it's a valid contribution. And OTOH a number of ethical issues that I have a very hard time playing along with and accepting.
 
There are discussions with CMs about how we can reduce the number of these and other comments without making blanket rules. I agree with this, because the way mods are trying to handle it isn't the best. Not sure how the situation will change or if it will improve at all anytime soon. We might have to deal with hundreds of comments each day for a long time
 
@Dharman you see, the comments (as we've said earlier) are just a business rule detail (altouhg one that's impactful on workload and participation - for a low rep users those accepts can make a huge difference in progression).
 
5:55 PM
I am not against accepts in general. I am not even entirely against comments that teach new users how the site works if that is truly necessary. I am definitely against comments that are literally begging, nagging and demanding votes
 
@Dharman the concerns I'm referring to are -to contrary- very broad and entirely about ethics. (Just synthesizing the explanation would be a handful and I'll excuse myself of doing so today).
 
There are a lot of other pressing issues that mod team has to deal with than the occasional comments asking for acceptance.
 
@Dharman but in case, I'll be around in a very reduced workload. (And who knows, maybe one day I'll raise some of the issues I think should be talked about.) If you ever feel like having a chat ping me, it's always a pleasure (we should get Braiam in here one of these days to do some brainstorming :D )
 
If users could post less comments that aren't imperative to the working of the site, we could focus more on more serious isssues
 
@Dharman ok, so I'll give a conceptual answer to that!!
 
6:00 PM
Regarding ethical issues, people will always have issues they disagree on. It's ok and it's part of living, but the important thing is to work through the issues and find a consensus. Sometimes, it means walking away, like the mod team from the recent proposal.
 
@Dharman imagine that curation wasn't a problem at all...! That we had enough engaged curators to just keep things working smoothly (the upcoming VC weight changes and SG try to alleviate the problem without solving it.)
@Dharman YES!! But that's the catch...!! The catch folks don't want to talk about.
(You studied engineering and this mathmatics right?) So if you take the integral over ethics of how debate has been organized and cristalized on the metas over the last 10 years...
@Dharman there are overwhelming amounts of reasons to just walk away form SE and not participate (altough everybody needs to read it as a resource).
 
I'll be honest, I don't really like comment flags. I often don't know how to handle them. Some I accept, some I will decline. Sometimes I will just delete all comments. I don't have much respect for comments :) I am afraid though that if I delete too much, users will feel like they are being censored. If I delete too little, some comments might offend someone.
 
@Dharman good point, how do handle comments? If they're technically relevant keep, if not delete. If they don't offend anyone they're ok, if they try to offend NLN is good enough to make the problem go away.
@Dharman one thing, in the broader SE network not all mod are good people and a lot of them don't know what they're doing.
@Dharman like, the best harassment strategy of mods who don't like a particular user is just let the regulars attack/troll/derail that user's posts in the comments (and no NLN or rude flags get approved). That's basically leaving some users to offend all they want, and the recipient will have to deal with a very unfair and unequal situtation.
 
Maybe on other sites mods have time to be prejudiced. SO mods don't have the time for that
 
@Dharman well, that's also true. The industrial scale on SO makes a lot of things work smoothly without overly focusing on individual users.
 
6:09 PM
@richardec I would leave it as it is for the moment. It doesn't really harm to keep it.
 
@Dharman but here's a catch: one that no one ever mentions or is permitted to mention.
@Dharman what are the individual defects of the SO mods that are especially grave? Because by blanket praising SO mods we're forgetting they are all individuals, and while some seem excellent (and I believe they are) a very few have nothing in their writing that inspires any trust on my part.
Hey @Dharman it's Sunday and I have some code to write for this upcoming week. So I have to go, but thanks for your time and great seeing you.
 
I have been warned that there are bad mods, but I haven't found out yet which. Some mod actions are done hastily, some are done inaccurately, but in general I think the current mods are good tools for the job.
I have to play some games :)
 
@Dharman that is a fair warning I've been thinking about giving on other sites of the network...! But I'll give you a hint, when you're reading something on the metas look for "narratives".
What makes a "narrative" and after all's been said and considered, what a "false narrative"? And what can we draw from an author who repeats and propagates the most "false narratives" - thus the most prevalent, most accepted, but nevertheless wrong narratives.
Look for that.
@Dharman enjoy :D
 
user17242583
I submitted del-pls requests for them an hour or two ago, but no one took action, which surprised me a bit since my previous ones today were very soon taken care of. If it's just because folks are off on their own business, fine by me. But I can't tell if it's that or people see value in them that I don't.
 
user17242583
Or is it just that deleting is more serious than closing and folks want to give it a little more time?
 
My opinion, @richardec, is that deleting is heavier than closing so more consideration is due. Additionally, questions kept for "historical significance" were often on topic when they were asked, but no longer fit the current format of the site. Most of the time, there is no harm in keeping these around, but you could potentially earn the ire of legacy users of the site by deleting their old contributions.
 
user17242583
@BendertheGreatest Hmm...I wouldn't want to do that. But I think I'm deleting only a very small fraction of the questions asked at this time, so it seems like it shouldn't cause much of a problem. I'd definitely like to keep questions that are interesting even though they're not on-topic, but a lot of these ones have pretty low views (20k over 13 years at most) and low scores anway. I'll definitely think about those things though.
 
7:12 PM
@richardec 20k views is enough for two gold badges so there is some weight there recognized by the site (although you wouldn't get two Famous Question badges on the same post, of course)
 
Is this answer okay or should it have been a comment or a close vote? stackoverflow.com/a/14674444/2943403
 
And how about this answer? NAA or R/A?
 
@Vega Which one?
 
@Vega NAA. We should assume no ill intent from that new user.
 
7:27 PM
Seems fair. Thank you
 
Hmm. My "Advanced Flagging" is giving me "Failed to send tpu- feedback to Smoke Detector" errors. Maybe I'll need to revisit my settings/configs.
 
Same here.
 
@Dharman a moderation action of yours is challenged on MSE: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/379126/… I provided an answer for now. Let me know when I can delete it, if at all.
 
Heh - Anyone for the Shunting Yard Algorithm?
 
@rene Thanks. I would say exact same thing
 
7:42 PM
That is a good thing, I guess.
 
{cream crackers}
 
 
8:57 PM
@richardec you shouldn't assume anything about if/how/when moderation requests get handled in here. That most requests get handled quickly is just coincidence. There's really a lot of factors in play. Some of the most obvious ones for not taking action are: people being out of del votes, people not seeing your del-pls requests at all because they are farther back in the transcript.
Plus, it's sunday (evening or night in some parts of the world) and people who use SO as part of their professional routine might simply not log in today
some other factors are that several folks are conservative with del votes, which is generally a good thing when it comes to removing content, and might abstain from deleting old content with high views that doesn't cause any actual harm
I, for one, do not cast del votes on off-topic content that isn't entirely opinion-based and has high views and some good answers
4
others may have their own criteria. If you feel some post really must go, you might want to post in meta, or provide a more extensive description in your *-pls request, to get others up to speed with your reasoning
w.r.t to the two requests you mentioned, I agree to delete and voted accordingly, so there's that. But I logged in just 5 mins ago and happened to see the message in the transcript
 
Let's not forget too that a good chunk of the US workforce has tomorrow off as well. It's not just a weekend, it's a holiday weekend.
 
user17242583
9:30 PM
@BendertheGreatest Did you mod flag that? Also, it's an invalid SOCVR request since the answer score is greater than -1.
 
It isn't greater than -1 anymore. >:)
 
@richardec del-pls are acceptable if the score is within 1 downvote of being eligible
Though I agree that a mod flag is better for that, the score does not make it an invalid SOCVR request.
 
user17242583
@HenryEcker Oh, I didn't realize that. Maybe the URRS script shouldn't say such requests are invalid then?
 
10:55 PM
convert link-only answer to comment under question? stackoverflow.com/a/62074029/2943403
 
@mickmackusa You can flag for mod attention. While this room has many mods, stuff that requires mods should be flagged.
 
I was asking if it should be converted. Alternatively, it could just be flagged as Not An Answer, but that is not reliable.
 
only mods can convert to a comment. It's rarely done, usually when NAA has some useful information
The answer you linked could have been flagged as NAA, VLQ, spam or using a custom mod flag. Either one would be fine.
 
 
1 hour later…
user17242583
11:59 PM
@KarlKnechtel What close reason?
 

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