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12:33 AM
hehe
 
 
2 hours later…
3:37 AM
^ Request to make a video explaining how a while loop works :(
 
 
2 hours later…
6:05 AM
@RobbyCornelissen while (true) { bangHeadAgainstWall(); }
 
@DanielWiddis Classic mistake - that is an infinite loop. And it might actually error, as well. The correct code would be while (hasHead) { bangHeadAgainstWall(); }
 
@VLAZ I was sure that mistake would be caught in code review.
@VLAZ Also, while (head != null && isNotCriticallyDamaged(head)) { bangHeadAgainstWall(); }
Related, I often include // this should never happen cases in my code, and in more than one instance it's happened.
 
6:24 AM
Does anyone know SQL well enough to determine if this edit is preserving the goals of the original answer? https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31830072
I suspect that it might be, despite the drastic changes, but I'm not certain.
 
@RyanM I know SQL well enough but there is so much more in the edit that I can't honestly say it meets the original author's intent. It should be a separate answer.
 
Thanks. I might mod-message them an encouragement to post that as its own answer, because it seems like it'd be a useful contribution...arguably, they deserve more than the 2 rep for a suggested edit.
 
6:43 AM
@VLAZ That's still an infinite loop. You need to call the hasHead() function. Otherwise, the function itself is truthy. Consider using type-safe languages when banging your head against the wall in the future.
 
@JeanneDark you posted a del-pls on the answer
 
Thanks! Corrected it
 
...but it doesn't matter anymore
:)
 
...you'd think I'd have noticed that when I clicked it.
Somehow, I did not.
@karel this might be a problem that people have regularly, given that VS Code is often used as an IDE for Flutter. Not sure, though.
 
8:18 AM
@DavidW this links to an answer, not the question
 
Oh sorry. I'm really bad at that I'll try to change it
Doesn't look like I can edit it again
 
It's past the editing period; I fixed it for you, though.
and no worries, it happens. Just wanted to give you a heads-up and confirm your intent.
 
Thanks
 
9:30 AM
Anyone aware of a canonical question that has answers explaining the difference between front-end and back-end for web applications? Don't really know where to point the people that are trying to query their MySQL database from their Angular app...
 
 
1 hour later…
10:51 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
o/
 
12:47 PM
 
huh
 
My list was probably generated after yours so it picked up one yours didn't
I had 15 when I clicked
 
Now, now, boys - let's not get into a "my list is bigger than your list" argument. :)
 
OK, it's gone now.
 
1:31 PM
Is this an answer to the question "Outlook rule run in all the folders"? I'm no SME but to me it looks like they answered their own question, not the OP's.
 
1:47 PM
 
2:06 PM
@JeanneDark They asked a follow-up Q as an answer and then self answered that. So, NAA to start, not sure if it should stay now or not since it still doesn't answer the OPs Q.
 
@NathanOliver Thanks you!
 
2:53 PM
@GeneralGrievance there is a chance that R/A could be declined
 
@blackgreen Should I edit instead?
 
I believe so, yes
 
Given how short it was, I thought it was a troll answer, but ok.
 
If they rollback, I'd consider raising a mod flag, but...
 
OK. Will retract. Left a message in the edit comments.
@NathanOliver or other RO. Please bin my last flag-pls chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54618706#54618706
 
2:58 PM
For new users, is there any difference (in terms of potential answer bans) between self-deleting, community-deletion and mod-deletion? Just came across an NAA (in review) that was pointing out another answer as plagiarism; actually very helpful and I raised a mod-flag - I also posted a comment to try to encourage the user to self delete.
 
@GeneralGrievance done
 
... I also told said new user to raise flags for such. But I also had to flag their answer as NAA.
 
@GeneralGrievance It's wrong anyways, there's no star function.
 
@HenryEcker Yeah. But answers may be different. Presumably, if a user gets their first five answers deleted as NAA, then the score count doesn't really come in to it ... they will have been "poorly received".
 
3:09 PM
^^ A link to the users local file Q_Q
 
@Braiam sigh So it was a troll after all...?
 
i mean, given the name, the age of the account, the activity since the post, it certainly looked suspicious
 
It looked suspicious in the way that there's such a convenient function that does exactly what you want. Libraries that allows you to draw any shape rarely do that.
 
@AdrianMole I still think the overall system is likely the same. I read that answer as whether or not the post is deleted does not matter. 5 undeleted zero score answers would have the same effect as 5 deleted zero score answers.
 
That's why you should always downvote NAAs =P
 
3:16 PM
In this case, I didn't feel that a downvote would have sent the right signal. The poster was clearly trying to help but probably didn't understand how flags work.
But it was definitely helpful (to me). Without it, an upvoted and bountied copy-paste answer would maybe have gone unnoticed.
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole It was also accepted. So a 50+15+10 = 75 rep increase from a blatant copy/paste (from top to bottom, with no additional text).
 
but but but clearly it was helpful!
 
Yikes. Was it over 60 days old?
 
@GeneralGrievance Does that matter if the score is < 3?
 
How did it get all that reputation and nobody fixed the broken markdown?
 
3:25 PM
@AdrianMole Nope. Oh, the 50 was from bounty.
 
I would like to think that the handling mod will remove the awarded bounty points. Whether or not they refund them to the asker is not really my concern.
 
fixing broken markdown hardly gives any rep
 
... they could even pass the points over to me ... I wouldn't mind. ;-P
 
@AdrianMole Auction it off to the highest bidder. Bidding starts at 50 rep.
 
I raise to 51
 
3:29 PM
 
3:49 PM
@GeneralGrievance wrong link?
 
Yes. Just saw it. Hold on.
 
user17242583
@GeneralGrievance That's an answer, and the question doesn't look like it needs closing to me.
 
Yes, wrong thing entirely. Please bin that one.
 
There we go.
I blame the work proxy.
 
user17242583
:54619014 Hmm, the answerer of that question (who also earned a 125-rep bounty) is the same guy whose plagiarism was pointed out by an NAA, as Adrian discussed above. Just sayin..
 
(the recent activity on that is a pending suggested edit to an answer)
 
4:09 PM
 
user17242583
This isn't an answer, is it? ("I am not working on this anymore. We decided another way to complete the task.")
 
user17242583
lol @Suraj, we both noticed the same "answer" ;)
 
denvercoder9 strikes again. xkcd979
 
@richardec No, it's not an answer at all.
 
user17242583
4:35 PM
@SurajRao Yep :P. I flagged it as NAA; we'll see how that results. Probably it will be deleted.
 
user17242583
@cigien Thank you; that's what I thought.
 
@richardec ok.. probably worth retracting the other one.. OP added the linked code
 
user17242583
Alright, fine, although I really don't like that answer... ;)
 
user17242583
There are actually two, and they're identical: stackoverflow.com/a/72351893/17242583 and stackoverflow.com/a/72351845/17242583
 
user17242583
I'll mod flag one
 
4:41 PM
Can a NAA review task that completes as "Recommend Deletion" delete an accepted answer?
 
I think it goes to a mod
 
@IanCampbell I believe it has to be reviewed by mod
 
Although I could vote to delete it
 
Yes, that was my primary reason for asking. If LQA can take care of it, I'd let it go, but if not, I'd consider a del-pls to save our diamond wielding friends some work. After all, they have a lot of "accept my answer" comments to delete. =P
Thankfully, it's been handled.
 
user17242583
The spam wave is getting stronger
 
user17242583
4:49 PM
and stupider
 
user17242583
Is there a userscript that calculates your helpful flag rate (100-declined/helpful*100) when you visit your flags page?
 
@richardec Are you thinking of Sam's Mod Flagger Stats?
 
^
 
user17242583
Does that work for non-mods though? It looks like it's only for the mod queue (from the description, at least).
 
5:04 PM
Though, as a non-mod I found it doesn't update the stats
 
user17242583
Oh wait, "Non-mods only can view their own flag badge on profile"
 
I have to go into Local Storage on my browser and delete the ModFlaggerStats item to refresh it
 
user17242583
Perfect; that's just what I wanted.
 
user17242583
@jmoerdyk Really? That sounds like a bug.
 
user17242583
eek, my accuracy is 98.42%...kinda low, right?
 
5:06 PM
@richardec either that or I'm impatient
 
Sounds fine to me.
 
user17242583
But it seems like 1 declined flag can affect your accuracy more than 100 helpful ones (at least for me, with 3.2k helpful)
 
user17242583
I though Zoe's was like 99+ when she became a mod
 
99.08 :)
 
My personal opinion is that people get too caught up thinking about their declined flags.
Don't worry, the voters only care about your candidate score. =P
 
5:08 PM
Yea someone can edit their post after you flag and then your flag gets declined
declinded count is stupid
 
@MFerguson we try not to decline flags in these situations but there are situations in which it's hard to notice
 
I agree, sometimes it seems a decline is subjective depending on the mod
 
I dunno. It's kind of fun to laugh at the dumb things I thought were flaggable early on.
 
In major development, today it was revealed that SO mods are actually human. More at 11!
 
@richardec FWIW I have distinctly mixed feelings about the way those thresholds are set. Especially how it counts retracted flags as good, but ignores red flags and comment flags...
@jmoerdyk this is also true. Sometimes we'll mark helpful and do nothing, other times we'll decline and do the thing that the flagger probably wanted.
 
user17242583
5:12 PM
@GeneralGrievance I know. I wouldn't want you to see some of the things I flagged! :P
 
The general rule we try to follow is that helpful means "please continue raising flags like this" and declined means "don't raise more flags like this"
 
@richardec That's not a low number at all. I'd suggest not paying too much attention to that number, as it can result in not flagging things that probably should be. It's better to incorrectly flag things now and then, as opposed to not flagging something that might lead to a declination.
 
If only the people that made the mod tools felt that way.
 
Figuring out why a particular flag was declined, and incorporating that information is fine, but using the raw accuracy percentage isn't really ideal. Even not accounting for the fact that, as Ryan mentioned, the accuracy isn't calculated as well as it could be.
 
So a VLQ flag on an off-topic question: decline and close, because we really want people to flag those for closure, not as VLQ
 
5:14 PM
@RyanM I believe one mod would close and mark helpful
 
(a random example, not one people here have done)
@JeanneDark yeah, Cody is more accepting of those than most. I've actually partly come around to that position: if it is immediately obvious with no ambiguity that the question should be closed, I'll close and mark it helpful.
So like, question in title, body is just links to screenshots of code? Helpful VLQ flag from me.
 
Another thing you can do is strategically use flags. For example, NAA will not be invalidated by an edit whereas VLQ will be marked as helpful automatically. Both get the answer to LQA.
 
I admit that I've been less than 100 percent consistent about VLQ flags on questions as I've tried to develop a strategy for handling them.
Specifically figuring out in which situations it's reasonable to ask a moderator to singlehandedly dispatch a question for you.
 
When it's easier to just do it than to argue about it.
 
Since ultimately that's what non-custom flags other than closure flags are asking for.
 
5:20 PM
@RyanM The problem is the bad UI. Most people probably don't know that "needs improvement" is the way to go for a question beyond salvation.
 
@RyanM And yet, that's not what the system tells the flagger, so there's that.
 
Hey, at least they changed Triage... That was really bad.
 
@JeanneDark Even the name makes it pretty clear that "needs improvement" is not the way to go for a question that is beyond salvation. For such questions, "very low quality" seems like the obvious and only correct choice.
I would prefer that the option be removed entirely, because it's already covered by a combination of R/A and recommend closure flags, but until I get the ability to make system-level changes, I can only process flags according to how the current system is designed.
 
@CodyGray When the correct choice for a question that should be flagged as VLQ is to flag them as R/A
 
@JeanneDark ironically, I think most of the questions where I'd uphold a VLQ flag aren't beyond salvation...by the OP.
 
5:22 PM
@JeanneDark Was that a question? If so, the answer is, when it's gibberish.
Yeah, that "needs improvement" naming is exactly as bad as the old Triage naming problems.
 
@CodyGray Not a question, just that there's not really a scenario when to flag a question as VLQ - either it should be closed or it's abuse of the system.
 
Declining flags is also a way of educating flaggers about what flags to raise
 
@JeanneDark Oh, you were agreeing with me. Yeah, no wonder I was confused. :-)
 
@CodyGray Such a rare occurrence ;)
 
It's hampered by the fact that figuring out where to look for flag decline messages is nearly impossible if you don't already know.
 
5:24 PM
@RyanM Or, if what you're attempting to educate them about runs completely contrary to all other information on their screens, it is a way of confusing the heck out of flaggers and making them hate you.
 
And sharpening their pitchfork and going to Meta.
 
@CodyGray I should really write up a meta post on removing the VLQ flag on questions.
 
Didn't we determine that it shows a banner at the bottom of the flag dialog when a user has had flags recently declined, with a link to their flag history page so that they can see the whole context?
@RyanM It's been a couple of years... might as well ask again.
 
VLQ sends questions to Triage. How else would they get there other than the magic algorithm?
 
@CodyGray Only if the most recently raised handled flag was declined.
Note that exact phrasing.
 
5:26 PM
@IanCampbell Oh no! Please, please don't throw me in the briar patch remove the Triage queue!!
 
Triage queue is useful...ish. It's a horrible use of reviewer time, but it does feed the CV queue.
 
Yeah, because the CV queue is regularly starving
 
I'm with Cody, Triage is a dumpster fire.
 
Hmm. We won't need the Triage queue anymore once we have the Staging Ground queue.
 
As someone who used to review CV queue for a specific tag, it was nice that I never had to leave that tag ;-)
(the vast majority of my 16,000 CV reviews are Android questions)
 
5:28 PM
OK, maybe I'm just a cynic, but I expect Staging Ground to backup in the first day and never get anywhere close to a helpful steady state.
 
And I think that could continue to be the case even without a Triage queue. That's the virtue of huge tags with lots of new programmers.
 
I still do review that queue, just...less, now, because my time is spent more in the flag queue.
@IanCampbell no, that's 100% going to happen.
 
Imagine reviewing questions in the early 1980s. "What dialect of BASIC are you using?"
 
@IanCampbell At least people will gain rep there ;)
 
i expect it to fail in it's first iteration as well, but i hope it ultimately succeeds. A barrier of entry like that would be a huge benefit to quality in general
 
5:29 PM
I would bet money that it will require changes to be able to handle the load.
And yeah, just because it initially fails at first doesn't mean it's beyond hope in future iterations.
 
I just don't know what those "changes" are or could possibly be.
 
I just hope SE is willing to invest the time.
 
I like the sentiment. I just don't think it's possible.
 
for example, i'd like to be able to mark something as likely being a duplicate
which puts it into a state where anyone who can find the correct dupe can supply it
 
Just like we do now? Or the whole, "I think this is a duplicate, but I can't be arsed to actually go find it, so just get off my lawn" type thing?
 
5:31 PM
Sure, but in the SG
 
Meh. If you aren't willing to go find the duplicate, why should anyone else be? More importantly, if it's that difficult to find, isn't the contribution of a signpost actually a useful contribution?
 
yes
 
Unpopular opinion: the influx of duplicates bothers me less than the influx of garbage. (Exhibit A can be found above.)
 
I would love a "Suggest a duplicate to the OP" feature. I find myself leaving "Does this answer your question? <post>" a lot on questions I could hammer, because it's just not clear enough. If the OP could just click a button, that'd be awesome.
 
The reason it can't be found is because people are asking the wrong questions. That doesn't mean the answers that are found on them aren't of the best quality
 
5:33 PM
I would like to be able to suggest a dupe non-bindingly (without casting a CV, ideally) while presenting the option to the asker to accept it.
 
aka allow the process to be collaboritive
 
Would be easy for the UI to accommodate... Just stop the "flag" route from converting to a CV for users with CV privileges. The issue is, then you're creating more work for other people, which is not ideal.
So why not just post a comment, and then let the OP single-handedly always close their own question as a dupe?
 
It'd need a really big banner at the top "HEY YOU!!! YAH, YOU!!! DOES THIS ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?"
 
@CodyGray Because new askers aren't going to understand how to do that.
@IanCampbell That exists. I don't understand why people so frequently fail to use it.
 
I think they do get an email?
 
5:35 PM
(but also yes, OPs should always have binding dupe-close privileges)
 
Well, the thing is, by posting a comment, you don't limit it to the OP confirming whether or not it is a duplicate. You also allow anyone else who has the relevant expertise to decide and hammer it.
 
I think they do already if they go through the right labyrinthine route, but I'm not sure.
 
The OP does have binding dupe-close privileges, they just have to flag their own post as a dup and then accept it with the banner at the top.
 
that ^
@CodyGray Generally when I want to do this, I suspect the OP is having a particular problem, but the question lacks the info to be certain.
 
user17242583
 
5:37 PM
Then the question should be closed as unclear, not a duplicate.
 
I guess it's a case of "if this is your problem, please accept this dupe. Otherwise, clarify your question."
 
@richardec Yes.
 
user17242583
It's not actually rude and it's not actually abusive, but
 
It is abusive.
 
It's abusive because it's nonsense.
 
5:37 PM
Imagine walking into a museum and yelling that out.
 
user17242583
Ahh, I didn't realize that. I'll remember that!
 
@RyanM But no, because we want them to clarify their question in either case, not merely accept a duplicate.
Especially because it's no longer obvious to the vast majority of users that it was the OP who accepted the duplicate, so the process of self-accepting the duplicate isn't sufficient to confirm that that was actually the problem.
 
@CodyGray ...eh. I'm not sure it serves anyone to spend their time clarifying common duplicates.
 
I can agree with that, particularly because if the obligation is to future visitors, if it's not clear from the question that is the answer, then it doesn't serve as a good signpost
 
Then just close it as unclear, but leave the link to the duplicate in a comment. There's no point in closing it as a dupe, either, because unclear questions are not good signposts.
 
5:39 PM
Bleh, I'm turning into a pair of glasses.
 
I still miss Bart. You can be his replacement.
But do you even wear glasses? I can't remember.
 
I wear glasses after I take out my contacts at night. =P
 
Contact lenses gang /o/
 
Wanna-be glasses-wearers :-)
 
glasses are just face masks for your eyes
 
I can't find the phone number for your support helpline
Also... those look like mere eyes, not glasses.
 
they are, I believe, contact lenses.
 
My cousin-in-law is always telling me to leave the graphic design to the professionals.
 
Is your cousin-in-law a professional graphic designer?
 
Yes. To be fair, she's very good at her job.
 
Haha. I've actually never seen that meme before. I've clearly missed out.
 
i hate graphic design
rather let someone else do that
 
There are many great versions, including ones with authentic WordArt.
 
@RyanM I think the most infuriating part of that is the gaussian blur applied to part of the text.
 
Oh wow, there's a history article.
 
5:52 PM
@IanCampbell Oh wow, I missed...whatever is happening there...
I can't tell if that's a compression artifact or part of the original
I think it's intentional
That's subtle.
 
Isn't that the Vinesauce logo? Might be a video thumbnail.
 
Are we talking about design hell? It's a real place, you know...
 
Clearly The Oatmeal is not a very good graphic designer if he doesn't know what "edgy" means. It means you add more edges!
Remember how edgy all web pages were back in the 90s, with those glorious <table>s?
 
MIDI files? Wat?
 
6:13 PM
@CodyGray barely. Mainly I dont remeber much because my father was a lawyer. So I had many phonecalls and threw me out of the internet as we couldnt do both...
 
user17242583
 
user17242583
Probably the OP upvoted it.
 
user17242583
Twice upvoted!
 
There's flag button for vote fraud. One of your friendly Dharmans moderators will take care of it for you.
 
user17242583
Lol, Dharman deleted it as a I was writing a custom flag :D
 
Seems to already be on the case, so next time. =P
 
6:31 PM
@IanCampbell Two moderators handled this one simultaneously ^^;
One deleted the NAA, the other deleted the account.
 
I can only imagine that Dhaman has a userscript that filters the flag page to only custom flags that include the text "fraud" or "sock"
 
I think the moderators who specialize in voting fraud tend to seek it out and find it for themselves
 
@IanCampbell I haven't done it yet
@richardec FTR that was a coincidence
 
Which is to say: don't worry about sending the flag anyway
As it happens, I was already addressing the other issue. But you couldn't be expected to know that.
 
I seek out voting fraud, but often I just open a page that says "user deleted by Martijn Pieters"
10
 
user17242583
6:54 PM
@Dharman So does a page like this show you anything other than "Page not found"?
 
Yes. It's not much though. I'd rather not mention specifics.
 
user17242583
Okay, that's fine. Interesting, though.
 
You might find this publicly available information interesting.
 
@Dharman Give it time, soon he will start seeing the same but with your name :-)
 
user17242583
@Dharman Would a screenshot or something of something more worthless, e.g., a spam user (stackoverflow.com/u/19181854) be fine?
 
user17242583
7:00 PM
don't both if you'd rather not
 
Mods use a lot of userscript to make the site barely usable. The screenshot that Ian showed was an example of the bare minimum. Most of the information is hidden after deletion even from moderators. We can see why the account was deleted and their posts. Some additional information may be included depending on the nature of the deletion. Even with the spammer account I would have to censor some parts if I would want to take a screenshot.
 
user17242583
@Dharman Ah, I see. That's fine. I was just curious on how it looked in general. Ian's link was helpful.
 
I removed it because I thought it looked different now, but maybe it still looks that way.
We don't delete enough users in my neck of the woods.
 
@IanCampbell should we send the keto spammers your way? it's almost on-topic.
 
Yes, and the ED medication ones. We loves those.
 
7:15 PM
@IanCampbell but yeah, it does still look like that. We use userscripts to make it not look like that, but it does by default :-p
If you want your message unwaffled, I'm happy to edit it.
 
Please feel free. I'm happy for other people to talk about Fight Club, just not me.
Although, is talking about other people talking about Fight Club talking about Fight Club?
 
7:41 PM
Should we be using the file-writing tag during this burn of the write/writing tags?
 
7:52 PM
Has anyone ever googled how to do something and found that you've answered the question on SO? It's kind of embarrassing.
 
@IanCampbell lol, I have heard a few people have that experience, not sure I've had it myself though
though I certainly have had the experience where I know I've answered something and have difficulty finding the answer when I'm trying to do something
 
@TylerH come on, confess :)
 
I think you get a free pass in that case. At least you could recall that you had answered something similar.
 
^ that only shows how fragile our brains are, sometimes you remember stuff you haven't thought about for years and sometimes, well you have a blackout on something you did yesterday...
 
I'm surprised the thing works as well as it does. It's basically just a bunch of tiny wires stuck together with duct tape. And I regularly bathe it in toxic alcohol for giggles.
 
8:03 PM
lol
 
@blackgreen What the heck is up with the answers on that one?
 
@tacoshy users using bootstrap should be tagging their questions with [twitter-bootstrap]. They should only use the [bootstrap-5] tag if they are writing code that is specific to version 5 of bootstrap (e.g. something that won't work/run in older versions)... there probably is no need to pick one or the other, since both tags can be used in addition to html and css, leaving an option for a 5th tag to be used for something more specific (or something like [javascript] if that is also relevant)
 
8:42 PM
@IanCampbell I have googled how to do something with the intention of finding my answer on SO.
Just for a quick copy-paste.
 
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