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1:01 AM
@Makyen Could you a link to the guidelines that say it's not allowed to go looking for posts in order to cause them to roomba? I'm not able to find this guideline on meta. It seems very similar to going looking for posts that are one vote away from deletion (which is allowed). And yes, I'm aware of the guideline against not downvoting answers in order to have the question roomba.
 
@cigien Quoting myself: "Clean-up by downvoting? A ridiculous user experience". Basically, it's considered unacceptable to downvote just to cause the Roomba to delete a question. The possible situations are, potentially, complex. There may be other reasons why a post is worthy of a downvote, in which case you can choose to downvote, if you want, but downvoting only because it will cause the Roomba to delete the question is not permitted.
It is, effectively, how that post has been interpreted. The main time that I recall it coming up with a similar context was during one of the tag burninations prior to my being a moderator.
 
@Makyen: It seems a hard rule to enforce in general since it requires knowing the motivation of the voter. I can only see it being applied if the poster is caught doing this on a large scale.
 
PMJI, so is that why people downvote spam that rapidly? So roomba (need to read up on this bot) will delete it? but wasn't there a post on meta that states that one shouldn't downvote a spam and one should just flag it for mod's attention? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
 
@Makyen I think there's some difference between seeking out posts that are 1 downvote from deletion for the purpose of evaluating, on their merits, if they deserve a downvote, vs. just downvoting because their score is too high to be deleted. This is also far more relevant on answers (which was what prompted the original post) because I'm not sure why you'd want to delete a question that you didn't believe merited a downvote.
 
1:07 AM
@Makyen You don't appear to have an answer/comment there. Did you mean to link to meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/404119?
 
@ewong Spam flags automatically apply a downvote, so the downvotes are fairly quick on spam.
 
Oh. Is that what the spam flag does.. I thought it'd just notify the mod.. no wonder
 
I think a downvoting bot that automatically downvotes posts without human selection is unacceptable in almost any situation, regardless of what criteria are being applied - whether it's "questions that are near Roomba status" or "I really hate PHP questions so I'm downvoting all of them automatically"
 
@ewong The extra downvote from the spam or R/A flag is in addition to putting in the mod flag queue at a high priority.
 
@ewong also, 6 spam or rude/abusive flags cause the post to be automatically deleted.
 
1:11 AM
@cigien I linked to the one I intended. That 2015 MSO post was prior to my actively participating SOCVR.
@cigien The "quoting myself" statement was that I copied that chat comment from an earlier chat comment of my own, with a bit of modification.
 
@Makyen thanks!
 
@Makyen Ah, I see. The "quoting myself" threw me off, thanks. I'm still unclear on this; the post you linked with Shog9's answer all seems to be about not downvoting answers in order to have the question roomba'ed. I could see it being interpreted as downvoting even questions in order to roomba not being allowed, but it's not clear at all to me.
 
I concur with cigien's reading; I've not heard it interpreted in a way that would ban seeking out questions that might be worthy of a downvote to be fed to the Roomba.
 
I've definitely seen it interpreted that way (i.e. downvoting on either questions or answers) during a burnination, by both mods and CMs.
 
Perhaps it's because burninations are a coordinated effort involving multiple users at the same time? In that context, I could see it being an issue if multiple users decide to use downvotes (even on questions) with the roomba criteria in mind. However, for an individual user, unrelated to a burnination, or any other coordinated effort, I don't know that it would be interpreted as an issue if they were to seek out such questions.
 
1:22 AM
@cigien Nope, the issue was a single user.
 
Right, I didn't mean there were multiple users involved, I meant that during a burnination there are many more eyes on the same questions than usual, and so even a single user downvoting for the purposes of roomba could be seen as an issue.
 
I think the only difference is that there's substantially more attention focused on a limited set of questions, which makes it much more likely to be detected.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:11 AM
does the cv-pls cleanup script have an issue with deleted posts? I searched for and it finds some old posts which have not been moved to the Graveyard, all of which seem to be closed: chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=tagged%2Fpython&room=41570
wait, not all of them
but that one of course because it never got closed
 
@tripleee I suspect you're seeing the ones which are displayed in search results, but which aren't actually in the room any more. This is a chat search bug, which was reported to SE a long time ago. You can see which ones are not in the room you're searching in by hovering over the permalink to each message, which will show a different room number. If you're using the URRS, on its options popup, under the "Request review page (searches)" heading, it has the "Messages in another room:" line with radio buttons for "Normal", "Highlight & tooltip", and "Hide". "Normal" is an unchanged display. "Highlight & tooltip" applies highlighting and a tooltip to all the chat messages which are not in the room you're searching for. "Hide" just goes ahead and hides the erroneous results.
 
3:36 AM
Do we bother repairing this question which is actually an answer? stackoverflow.com/q/55811947/2943403
 
@Makyen yup, that seems to be the case, thanks for explaining
 
@Makyen do you have a mod-userscript that will migrate a question to an answer and reverse-engineer a question with a mcve?
 
np. It's something which comes up every once in a while. It's quite confusing. Part of the problem is the messages also don't show up when searching for the content in the correct room, which is why the "Hide" option isn't something I generally use.
@mickmackusa Ahhh... no, not really. :;
 
@Makyen The asker has been active in the last week, so maybe my new comment under the question will spur improvement.
 
One can hope. However, I haven't seen any part of the Q&A or comment, so can't really comment. :)
 
3:43 AM
@mickmackusa meanwhile, the "question" needs more details :)
 
well... it's surely a duplicate too. This won't be the first time a developer wants to whitelist certain keys in all rows.
As always, swinging my hammer is probably the best outcome.
 
I'd argue it's a duplicate, since there is no question
unless we interpret parts of the post as a question
but yeah, duplicate would be better for other people, which can see the linked, and likely better, question
 
4:32 AM
@RyanM Thanks, I hate it
But also I just realised you probably pronounce NAA different than I do (in my head, at least). "an NAA" suggests you pronounce it "en-ei-ei", right? I just think of it as "naah".
 
I pronounce it like this
 
Yeah, same as the "Na", basically.
 
But how do you pronounce VLQ?
 
Sound out each letter "vee-el-queue". Same with NLN - "en-el-en".
I think NAA is the only one I don't spell out.
 
R/A? Is it "Ra" as in "rah rah" or "arr eh?"
 
4:53 AM
Same user posts two nearly identical link-only(to SO) answers directing to a third more detailed answer. Double NAA, custom mod flag, or figure out which of the 3 questions is the canonical of the dupes?
 
stackoverflow.com/a/72313684/4826457 NAA? the code doesnt look related
 
@SurajRao I'd NAA that.
And in this chat room we don't moderate users so I won't comment on the user's name. Perhaps they need to learn about pastebin.
 
@DanielWiddis Oh, interesting - this one is mixed. I sometimes go with "ar-eh", sometimes as "rah".
 
user17242583
I pronounce each letter of those acronyms...N-A-A, V-L-Q, R-A...
 
user17242583
Nobody use my ShowRemainingVotes userscript if you are...it gets rate-limited too fast...
 
5:06 AM
@richardec Did you get a key for it? Or is it unauthorised?
 
user17242583
@VLAZ It scrapes the SO website stackoverflow.com/users/current?tab=votes, because I can't get votes via the API. :(
 
Ah, I see.
 
user17242583
What kind of trend is this to fill the HNQ list with garbage titles? i.stack.imgur.com/kJa8x.png
 
@richardec It's just the puzzles. Those and CodeGolf have some...interesting looking titles.
And since questions on those sites get a lot of engagement, the hit the "hotness" threshold very often in order to be represented on the HNQ. Some other sites with less activity are not represented as much.
 
Allo allo. What circumstances can lead to one having VTC'd a question but that question not showing any close votes please? If I go to vote again I can't as the pop-up arrives saying you have already VTC'd.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72087982/web-scrapping-unexpected-eof-while-parsing#comment127373670_72087982
 
5:19 AM
@QHarr If it was closed and then reopened. Or your close vote expired but that takes two weeks or so.
 
Ah. Thanks.
You voted to close this question May 2 at 19:21
 
Yep, then it expired.
 
So a vote can expire but you cannot vote again despite no improvement to question?
 
You can vote again but the rules are weird. You have to wait more, essentially.
It's also super annoying that it works like that.
 
@VLAZ Ok. Yes, it is. But appreciate the help. Thank you.
 
5:21 AM
@QHarr In this specific case, if nothing about the question changes, it will eventually Roomba so maybe not necessary to cast another close vote
 
I think you should see when you're allowed to vote again on the close vote dialog.
Also what Jeanne said - it will be automatically deleted in 15 days.
 
@JeanneDark That is good to know. @VLAZ Yes, at top of banner. My lack of knowledge meant I didn't understand this. It would help if banner stated vote had expired.
But that is probably somewhere in the help docs. <Feels bad for not going reading on this>
Anyone know of a SEDE query for proportion of expired close votes?
 
@QHarr Not even sure it's covered in the help docs. Probably somewhere in the darker corners of Meta. I think probably Meta.Stackexchange
 
@VLAZ Tx
 
6:25 AM
@tripleee RO please trash, the OP followed up in comments to the point where I posted an answer
 
6:55 AM
@QHarr That's... basically the motivation for a room like this one. This isn't meant as a place where you go to post every question you cast a close-vote on. It's meant for exceptional cases, questions that aren't getting closed via the normal means, such as questions in extremely low-traffic tags and/or questions where your close-vote has aged away due to low views.
@richardec I say this a lot, so if you've already read a message of mine saying it, please feel free to disregard. In case you haven't: the general problem is people raising mod flags to make requests, but failing to clarify why their request requires mod intervention. So, in your case, that would be a valid use of a mod flag, but unless you said something like "I can't edit it myself because the post is locked", you risk a mod in a hurry missing that subtle fact and declining your flag.
In general, correcting a glaring error with a title on a popular post that has been locked is definitely a case where a mod would be happy to help. If I properly understood the reason why you were raising the flag, due to sufficient explanation being provided in the flag message itself, I cannot ever imagine declining such a flag.
Just don't flag bobince's locked answer about parsing XHTML using a regex saying that there are some formatting issues that need to be corrected.
@RyanM Note that the author of a deleted re-post still gets a ping if you leave a comment, and so they can still get edjumacated, without other people having to wade through the crap. So, there are really no trade-offs.
 
@CodyGray What if we want to introduce even more Zalgo text?
 
Post your own answer?
 
7:12 AM
I guess you also don't want me to flag spam for having spelling and formatting errors.
 
Yes, please. Flag it as "spam".
@mickmackusa That is not something that is possible, even with a userscript. A question cannot be converted/migrated into an answer. Going the other way is possible under certain circumstances, though.
@VLAZ Oddly, I pronounce "NAA" as "not an answer" and "VLQ" as "very low quality". In other words, were I to speak the messages out loud, I would convert the initialism into the full phrase. Even more oddly, I don't generally do that with all acronyms/initialisms. In fact, most of the time, I pronounce them as if they are words, going so far as to add arbitrary vowel sounds between consonants that invent weird pronunciations, mostly for my own amusement.
 
for me, the most important question w.r.t. how to pronounce these acronyms is: has anyone here actually pronounced these names out loud, like, ever?
I can't picture myself having to use these in an in-person conversation
 
@blackgreen For me - no. Just in my head.
 
It's not unusual for me to read things out loud in my head.
Especially when I'm having trouble focusing or understanding it.
 
@CodyGray I have to do that with MCVE. I normally would think of it as "em-see-vee-ee" but when I'm writing a comment that says "please provide a [mcve]" I have to make sure I use the correct indefinite article there, since the "m" expands to "minimal".
 
7:23 AM
Reading things out loud in your head is a bit of a weird idea, almost a contradiction in terms.
 
I was just about to say that
 
It is more akin to imagining yourself saying them.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, that's what I do, actually
Uh, do I need to stop?
 
@VLAZ I've heard you can avoid that problem by just pronouncing it "rep-rex".
 
The cousin of regex
 
7:25 AM
I'll tell you this, in my life I learned many foreign languages — English included —, and while studying by myself it's frequent to imagine how to pronounce words. Then I go up to a native speaker and... it never works out as I imagined
 
@VLAZ I think of it more as the cousin of "ruh-roh".
@blackgreen Is that because too many native speakers mispronounce words? :-)
 
We need to draw those two family trees to figure out the relation between regex and ruh-roh.
@blackgreen Right? For example, you may have seen the word "salmon" a hundred times. But you try to say it to a native speaker and they look at you funny because you pronounce the "L".
 
@CodyGray it was a tongue in cheek question.
 
many natives do actually mispronounce, or even use improper grammar, because they never learnt their own language through a formal process
 
@mickmackusa You should have converted it into an answer
 
7:35 AM
@JeanneDark I found a good dupe containing several effective and concise techniques.
 
@mickmackusa Ah, sorry. I couldn't see your tongue.
@VLAZ Sometimes, it depends on what country your native speaker is a native of. Compare the way a Brit will ask for more solder to the way an American would do the same.
 
7:53 AM
@CodyGray right, in my experience this happens more frequently with languages that have many dialects
^ about this question I'm not sure what to do with the edit, should it be rolled back?
 
@blackgreen I don't think so. It technically improves it. Although not in the way we want it improved, as we don't want pictures of code. But I think rolling back is too much effort for no actual gain.
I'd consider rolling back if it was a suggested edit as it shouldn't have gone through.
 
Makes no sense to roll back the edit...
 
that's what I thought, both the edit and the rollback would be unsubstantial, however being the author a in the top rep percentile, makes it look like such edits are okay
 
I think such edits are OK.
 
wait, do you really?
 
8:02 AM
Yeah, edits that improve the post by making it easier to read are pretty good.
 
^ that
 
It's OK to edit a post even if it doesn't make it perfect.
 
It's still a bad question. But it's less bad.
 
hmmm...
 
Remember that the rejection reason is "no improvement whatsoever", not "still doesn't make it perfect". Also, users with full editing privileges don't need to worry about achieving only a minimal improvement, especially on a recent post where bumping is of no concern/consideration, since their edits don't require the attention of other users.
 
8:08 AM
I'm confused by the first part of your remark. Recent meta posts about review suspensions make it look like rejecting edits that don't make the post perfect is indeed the encouraged course of action
 
Not a huge fan of that, if I have to be honest.
 
So a <2k user who comes across that edit by VonC could be tempted to replicate the same edits, and the >2k user who reviews that could be tempted to approve it, per your statement, and get review-suspended
 
I guess I haven't seen the Meta posts to which you refer
Rejecting edits that don't make the post perfect is absolutely not, and has never been, the encouraged course of action.
 
The full edits and suggested edits aren't really equal, though. A full edit doesn't need to be reviewed by multiple people. So, it is not as much of a burden on the system.
 
At one point, there was a serious system-level flaw where a trivial edit that failed to fix substantive issues leading to a question's closure would put it into the reopen review queue, thus robbing its author of their sole chance to actually edit the question, fix its flaws, and get it reviewed for reopening. That blurred the lines a bit.
Fortunately, though, that flaw has been addressed now, so there is no longer any justification for rejecting an edit on the basis that it fails to make a post perfect.
 
8:12 AM
Yep, that was terrible.
 
@CodyGray this is not what I gather from those meta posts. I'm a conservative Suggested Edits reviewer, but I stopped reviewing for that very reason. I'm not sure anymore what an approvable edit looks like
 
An approvable edit is one that leaves the post better than the editor found it.
There used to be an edit rejection reason, "too minor". Note that no such reason exists anymore. There is a clue in this observation.
 
I don't know then, probably I'm misunderstanding or misreading those meta posts, though, in doubt, I'll just stay away from Suggested Edits
 
 
1 hour later…
10:01 AM
OP seems to go too rude here...
I thought it will appear in the snippet ... it haven't ... tell me ... how the f will you write down this, so that any one could repeat the same and see the same problem? with less code? FOOO — Javi Nitro 5 1 min ago
 
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Rather than report it here, please flag it for moderator attention.
 
@StephenOstermiller Okay, sure. I am flagging.
 
10:16 AM
Dealt! :)
 
Mmm, yes. Like Stephen said, flagging is best. Also, in the future, prefer flagging first, rather than arguing back about who voted what way. :-)
It never leads to anything constructive. It just means more comments for mods to delete.
 
flagflagflag
 
@CodyGray I tried to be polite in explaining what happened, but it went so crazy using cuss words of sort. Did I make any mistake other than replying to them politely! :(
 
When someone fires a comment like "you could have written without marking negative. FOO" at you, your response should be to flag that comment, not respond to it. It doesn't need a polite response.
4
 
@CodyGray Noted :)
 
10:49 AM
@tripleee pling? any RO around?
 
@tripleee → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
thanks
 
See it didn't take long for Dalmarus to start throwing their weight around...
 
@user692942 Ugghh... Yeah... I have to agree that's somewhat problematic...
 
@CodyGray even deleted the community member's comment who tried to explain that the question needed more context and a mcve.
 
11:01 AM
@user692942 Nah, that was me. The OP had replied and trimmed it down, so it was NLN.
 
No, that was... ninja'd.
 
@RyanM ah okay, well the code is still "incomplete" variables missing definition etc., but fair enough.
 
that would be a different issue than too much code, which the previous comment was pointing out - feel free to inform them of that
 
Independent of who reopened it, if you believe a question was incorrectly reopened, then you can/should make an argument along those lines in here and suggests its (re-)closure.
 
@CodyGray how do you go about that?
 
11:04 AM
Hmm. Advanced Flagging just told me: "Failed to flag: You don't have permission to use that type of flag."
 
it was briefly locked, if you are talking about the Arabic one from just now
 
Yep.
 
OK. I can can accept the lack of permission if Glorfindel has also lost it. :)
 
amusingly, even mods on their own site get that trying to spam-flag a locked post
 
@user692942 You should specify a specific reason that the question is worthy of closure.
 
@user692942 I think the convention is . Err, nope, the rules say you can't technically do this. But look at that orange strike-through formatting on the tag as a distraction.
 
@RyanM No MCVE, sorry could be more specific.
 
errr
Yes, you did say that. I'm sorry, my eyes just skipped over that part.
Your request was fine, I'm just not quite awake apparently.
 
@RyanM me neither and it's midday here! :D
 
11:09 AM
You have eyes? Eww. I thought mods have evolved past such crude sensory organs.
 
@CodyGray that's why I asked, I wasn't sure you could.
 
Even mods that have adopted plant-form have eyes.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (requester involved in previous closure)
Ah, I hadn't noticed that you were one of the original close voters. Yeah, Cody's right: see socvr.org/faq#GEfM-involved-successful-vote
 
We could create chimera mods: Baum mit Brille, anyone?
 
@user692942 Ah, you were testing me! I see that I failed. :-)
It... well, it kinda seems reasonable to allow people to do this once, provided they have a compelling justification for why.
 
11:12 AM
@CodyGray Honestly, wasn't sure if that was a loophole or not when you suggested it. But I had my suspicions.
 
Handling of exceptional cases is pretty much the raison d'être of this room.
 
So basically nothing I can do?
 
@richardec you need to throttle page scrapes as described in the rate-limiting guide. Want to drop by UserScripters room to discuss?
 
@AdrianMole Baum mit mehrfarbiger Brille
 
11:16 AM
Ich mag Brille.
 
Krebstier mit Brille! Alle mit Brille!
@user692942 Commenting seems like it's kinda working...
 
11:37 AM
So why just a del-pls request for the answer and not the whole dupe?
 
@CodyGray it does...
 
To be clear, I'm not saying commenting in lieu of closure is the appropriate solution. I just can't think of anything better at the moment that counts as coloring purely within the lines.
Oh great, now we've got "SEO" as a justification for handling dupes!
We don't need "SEO" everywhere, any more than we need "blockchain" everywhere.
 
I so often find complete trash when searching for something specific just because a post has higher SEO
A question sitting at -3 with a vague answer sitting at -1 with maybe 100-200 views.
And it's not actually related to what I'm searching for. Just happens to include some of the keywords.
 
@CodyGray mmm.... SEO!!!! Send them to webmasters!
 
@JeanneDark I agree. The question doesn't have a mcve ("McVee"), so it can be deleted as a poor signpost UNLESS we need to be merciful/hopeful that the asker will magically edit the question to make it into an awesome signpost.
Now all moot. Asker deleted page. Score one for downvotes and hammers!
 
11:50 AM
@mickmackusa Now all was deleted, but in this case the question was sitting at -2 and without an answer would eventually have Roomba'd.
 
It had an answer.
 
McVee! I like it. :-)
 
@mickmackusa And you requested the room to delete its sole answer
 
12:02 PM
Morning
 
It's almost refreshing to see spam that doesn't contain a support number
 
But then who do you call to complain about the spam?
 
When you live in a beautiful apartment in Bangalore, you have no longer a reason to complain about anything
 
Except the high maintenance price!
 
Then I move to Pune where they have great schools and colleges
 
12:21 PM
I spotted this audit for what it was and managed to escape the Wrath-of-System. But it's a terrible "known good" audit, IMHO. Error message as an image. Mis-spelling. Poor formatting. What action can we take to prevent it from being re-used? Will an edit do the job?
 
@AdrianMole I think a downvote would remove it from the pool.
 
Removal from the current pool is not always straightforward. But preventing it from being re-selected in the future is a bit easier, I think.
 
So... did you handle the post as it should have been handled?
 
@CodyGray Yes. I raised the issue in SOCVR. :)
... had I attempted to edit the post in the queue, I would have failed the audit.
 
ಠ_ಠ If you saw a question like that in any other context, would you vote to close it?
 
12:27 PM
Can or should a version tag wiki be copied from the main tag wiki?
 
No, that wouldn't help anyone. It could just link directly to the main tag wiki using the [tag:name] syntax.
 
@CodyGray Probably. I would at least have left a custom comment, had I seen it in First Questions.
 
It's probably a rare case where a version-specific tag needs its own proper/full wiki. Just an excerpt should do the job.
@AdrianMole A comment! Now at least I know you're just yanking my chain.
 
Hehe. I would also have edited to correct the spelling, punctuation and formatting ... maybe.
 
...and downvoted ;)
 
12:30 PM
All those things are great, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing them (including the commenting, in this particular case). But none of them should be done in lieu of casting a close vote. So... if you do that, and the question gets closed, then it's no longer a candidate for an audit.
I believe editing would remove it as an audit candidate, but I can never be certain about these rules unless I go look them up specifically on Meta, and even then, I can never be certain what system changes have been made (read: bugs introduced) since the posting of the answer on Meta that would disrupt their functioning.
Fortunately, in this case, as in so many, no complex machinations are needed. You just handle the post as you would normally handle it had you seen it outside the context of a review audit, and that'll solve multiple problems.
 
1:12 PM
^ question also looks off-topic
 
And prejudiced against cetaceans!
 
Do you know why I hate my job? It's because everything is slow, time outs regularly and forces you to create elaborate password only to have them write down in plaintext on Desktop.
 
Until I got to item #3, I thought you were talking about being a Stack Overflow moderator.
 
The UI is absolutely terrible, even for something created in the 90s
 
At least it's better than the new profile pages.
 
1:16 PM
Do you like scrollbars? Too bad, have 5 on a single screen. Ooops, sorry, there is no space left for content
 
Come on, they just wanted to <frame> the content.
 
A customer has VPN and a separate password for the system. I had to create 2 passwords. I saved them in a notepad and when I am screensharing with the customer I just copy paste from the notepad
Security by annoyance
also, I don't keep separate password files for every customer, I keep them all in a single file
SSO to the rescue? HAHA. I wanted to log in as a test user. No chance. It's not possible with SSO
I spend 5 minutes trying to create a password for that test user
I am going to spend the rest of the day on SO
 
Thank you for tuning into this week's installment of "Security Worst Practices", by Dharman.
 
First lesson: make it difficult for the attacker, not a normal user
 
You haven't automated your job with Dharmanbot yet??
 
1:26 PM
There's an SQL Injection joke around here somewhere, but it seems a bit 'cheap'.
 
Plot twist: the attacker is a normal user.
 
A user which I helped in comments thanked me and asked me to post an answer, but I'm more inclined to close as duplicate instead. How do I curate without coming across as a [insert derogatory qualifier]?
 
I don't know if we will ever get rid of SQL injection youtube.com/watch?v=A7B_ZWQFsYI
 
@blackgreen Happens a lot. If it's a dupe, close it as such.
 
@blackgreen close as duplicate and explain that the answer already exists
 
1:28 PM
@blackgreen I normally leave a comment like: OP, instead of answering I've closed this as a dupe of [this Q], and [this answer] should have all the info you need.
 
@blackgreen you embrace being [insert derogatory qualifier], that's the way.
4
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine and I just did...
 
@blackgreen wear that badge with honour!
 
1:33 PM
this is the post if you're interested
 
@blackgreen I just close them. I stopped caring about what users would think of me if I did this or that. If it turns out it's a dupe, I mark it as such.
 
@blackgreen well, you certainly sugared the deal :) such polite exchanges happen rarely
 
Why would anyone think you're a jerk for (A) helping them in the comments, and (B) handling them a link to a pre-vetted Q&A that contains the answer(s) to their question?
 
@CodyGray is that asked ironically?
 
the thing is, I usually close questions about [go][generics] in particular within minutes, so posting an answer instead would not just be worse curation, but also unbelievably self-serving
 
1:37 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine No, serious question. I do not understand.
 
For the record, I think all of you are jerks. (said with love)
 
Why would someone be mad at you for helping them??
 
you know, I was praised just today by a (now ex-) coworker for my work ethics
 
@CodyGray Because they needed your help in the first place?
 
@JeanneDark You're confusing the emotion "anger" with "gratitude". It's OK, no judgment; I also struggle with emotions at times.
 
1:38 PM
@StephenOstermiller of course, have you missed the memo? :) The alternative name for SOCVR is SOJ
 
@CodyGray No, I don't. But it's more convenient to be angry at someone else than at oneself, I guess
 
I suspected as much!
 
SOCVJ
@JeanneDark Yeah, but it's OK to not know something and need help. At least, that's what I tell myself. Maybe it's just my own way of coping with the anger and self-loathing.
 
In fact, if you ask an average asker, they'll tell you that "curator" and "jerk" are synonyms
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine As will the weird shifty guy at the museum who keeps trying to urinate on the sculptures.
 
1:42 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yes, this. "how do you dare closing my question" and "it's not a duplicate!!" and ... very long list
 
"How dare you point me to a Q&A that already contains vetted answers to the question that I am asking!"
"How dare you take time out of your day to help me resolve an issue I'm having!"
 
Many people also don't consider it helpful because a) one other purpose of them asking a question is to gain rep (gamification works, yay!) and b) it's likely not an answer they can just copy-paste
 
Secret hack: You can still gain rep by asking high-quality duplicates.
 
^ this is also true, I do upvote above-average dupes that do in fact look at the issue from different angles
(but I may still hammer them)
 
Of course! They're only useful if you hammer them.
 
1:46 PM
@CodyGray which, translated to askers' language, sounds more like "How dare you keep me from receiving a spoon-fed answer so as I do not have to spend any time reading, understanding, and applying solutions to my exact situation"
 
They may hope for more than 1 upvote, and also for their friends to be able to answer their question ;)
 
Sounds like they goofed by not getting their friends involved sooner: they could have helped them look for duplicates.
I don't really understand this "spoon-fed answer" objection. In my experience, most close-voters will go ahead and spoon-feed the specific answer in a comment anyway. :-)
 
If our explanations don't convince you, maybe you should ask the people who become angry ;)
 
Sounds irritating
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine this reminds me of a recent meta post by mickmackusa that ended with "change the broader contribution philosophy from #SOHereToHelp to #HereToHelpSO"
 
1:55 PM
@CodyGray a more appropriate analogy would be somebody that keeps trying to bring statues of their own "making" in the museum
 
"But my David has clothes!"
 
user17242583
2:27 PM
@CodyGray Thank you; I appreciate the reminder. I'll definitely try to make my custom flags clear and concise.
 
Just don't ask me for suggestions on making them concise
 
user17242583
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yes, I think I will! Thank you; I didn't know about that room. :)
 
user17242583
3:18 PM
Anyone here use AdvancedFlagging?
 
yes
 
user17242583
@Dharman Since you're a mod, I want to ask something: when you use AF to flag posts, do you have the "downvote" option checked? If you do, does it work?
 
user17242583
 
user17242583
I'm asking because I think AF downvotes after it flags, and if, because you're a mod, when you flag the post is immediately deleted, the downvote might not work.
 
user17242583
If so, I'll open a PR moving the downvoting code before the flagging code.
 
3:21 PM
I don't use that option
I want to downvote only when I feel like it
 
user17242583
...which leads me to another question: I know that when a mod red flags a post it's instantly nuked, but what about when the naa-flag a post?
 
we don't use NAA flags
 
user17242583
@Dharman Ah, I see. Do you mind testing that option for me real quick?Ah, I see. Do you mind testing AF with downvote checked for me real quick, then?
 
user17242583
@Dharman Oh...so then what do you use AF for? red flags only?
 
3:26 PM
@SurajRao Is that programming?
 
user17242583
@SurajRao No. I didn't read it carefully, but it looks like it might even be opinion based. I vote to migrate it to stats.SE.
 
Will it be well received in stats.SE?
 
What we know is that it's not on topic here. If you want you can comment telling to check Cross Validated
 
@richardec I use it mostly to report to SD. I have downvote and flag unchecked. Sometimes I also report to Natty
@richardec I would have to find spam post to test this, but downvoting spam is useless anyway, especially when you are a mod
 
user17242583
@Dharman Okay. I don't think I need it tested much anyway because I'm pretty sure the DV has failed for me on spam posts where I was the 6th flagger, but I'll ask Zoe.
 
user17242583
3:38 PM
For my own curiosity: when mods NAA-flag something, is it deleted immediately?
 
It's not
 
@richardec NAA flags go to the LQP queue and then to Mods. It doesn't make sense to me if a Mod flags as NAA...
 
user17242583
@SurajRao Yeah, I'd think they'd just delete it. But I wasn't sure ;)
 
@richardec No, it just acts as a normal NAA flag, which is basically useless for a mod to raise, as they can handle it themselves.
 
user17242583
@Makyen Red flags are the only ones that can cause a post to be instantly deleted, correct?
 
3:49 PM
@richardec Yes.
 
4:20 PM
@dippas @Makyen Could this be binned please? Requester has previously successfully closed the question.
 
and are being burninated: Open Qs - Close Queue - Meta CW
6
 
user17242583
5:35 PM
Do any non-mods use AdvancedFlagging?
 
5:49 PM
@richardec Lots. Or did you mean do any mods use it?
Many/Most of the regulars in SOBotics will be using it to facilitate sending feedback to bots like Natty and Smoke Detector.
 
no, @richardec already got an answer for that part, @AdrianMole :)
3 hours ago, by richardec
Anyone here use AdvancedFlagging?
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole I'll try asking their, but I'm afraid no one will see. I'll give it a shot though.
 
What did you want to know?
 
user17242583
in SOBotics, 18 secs ago, by richardec
Advanced Flagging users: do you think it would be a good idea to add a "XX flags remaining today" (or similar) to the AF dialog? Similar to what shows up on the default flag dialog.
 
@richardec you might be interested in this issue
 
user17242583
6:02 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Indeed, thank you
 
6:57 PM
@MarcoBonelli Example from just now.
 
Is this closable? I'm leaning towards no.
 
i mean
with enough invalid votes anything is closable
 
How is that a practical programming problem?
It would be more on-topic on ELL than SO, IMHO.
 
i mean
it'd be most appropriate to the person/entity taht gave themt he question
 
7:35 PM
@NathanOliver It's gone now for other reasons
 
Yeah, saw the account was nuked so I just closed the tab
 
7:57 PM
what to do with this post? If I remove the last sentence, I invalidate almost all answers, but if I leave it it's essentially off-topic
 
8:18 PM
@blackgreen Didn't see much to salvage. The Q is almost on-topic, but "where to report this to MS" is not valuable. 545 views in 13+ years
 
SGTM
 
user17242583
8:40 PM
test
 
9:25 PM
 
10:19 PM
 
10:38 PM
@AdrianMole Sounds like you're chatting chit 😆
 
user17242583
It seems like balpha is once again part of SE staff, since May 2022
4
 
user17242583
11:38 PM
New vote count record: 169 i.stack.imgur.com/OjSrk.png
 
does anyone know why so many recently try to change the colors by changing only the opacity instead of actually changign the color.
 
@richardec How can you have 169 votes in one day? (beyond the daily limit of 40)
 

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