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00:32
this question has an illegal duplicate, and I cannot seem to find a proper one.
@Turing85 Can you define what you mean by "illegal" here?
The duplicate is concerned with integer arithmetics. The post I linked has no such problem, but simply calls the wrong function (round instead of ceil)
@HenryEcker burnt my hammer on it to reopen...
@Turing85 You didn't VTC so you can still reclose it as a duplicate
@HenryEcker as far as I can see, there is no fitting duplicate
Right. I was more referring to the phrase "burnt my hammer" which I took to mean used up your hammer for that post. When you can still hammer it closed if needed.
00:37
I really think they want Math.ceil cast to an int, but their current description is wrong (it's self-contradictory, as my comment notes).
@RyanM I wouldn't want that
Why not?
@RyanM what do you mean by "wrong"? Because of the "round-off" part?
Your examples do not match your description. "if the decimal point is above 1" should mean that 1.1 rounds to 1, because the decimal (1) is not above 1. Do you perhaps mean you'd like to round up if the decimal is above zero? — Ryan M ♦ 3 mins ago
@RyanM Significant figures?
00:40
Given the (now) accepted answer I don't see why the canonical how to always round up isn't a reasonable duplicate. this answer is nearly identical
@RyanM ah. Okay. I thought that this was just some broken english and they meant "when its > 1, it should be 2"
@Braiam You're saying there is never a situation where programmers would want to round??
@RyanM The examples given are, at least for me, sufficient to induce what they want.
@HenryEcker No, I am saying there's no expectation from someone that knows math that ceiling will ignore significant figures and only return integers
@Braiam I don't follow. They want to remove anything beyond the integer. It doesn't seem relevant to the problem.
00:42
@Braiam I'm sorry. I really don't understand where this is coming from. That question seems to be about casting the results from Math.ceil to an int.
Also it's an int, so double won't lose precision.
@Turing85 What result do they want for 1.01?
@RyanM from the example given, 2
Then why on earth did they write "above 1"?
because they most probably forgot an "e.g."
and more importantly, how does this differ from Math.ceil cast to int (which is what that dupe generally was)?
00:46
@RyanM no, the dupe was concerned about integer arithmetic, because two integers were divided. And Math.ceil(...) operrates on doubles, not on ints.
Is this better Java rounding up to an int using Math.ceil? (I guess that's still about division)
@HenryEcker no, again: integer arithmetic
ah, an adequate duplicate has been found :)
Nice :-)
now all that's left to do is delete it ^^
Given how hard it was to find an appropriate duplicate it would seem there's not an abundance of signposts for that specific issue. Deleting it seems... counterproductive
00:54
@HenryEcker for one, it's a case of RTFM. For another, if we want to keep it as signpost, it must be improved.
@RyanM I reworded the question. Care to give it a read?
@HenryEcker you're welcome as well ☝️
Seems reasonable from a glance though I don't have time for a deep dive at the moment.
@Turing85 Unlike in German, most English nouns don't need to start with a capital letter. However, Java isn't one of them.
@AdrianMole I should use the magic pen more... ^^
Don't worry - I've seen much worse. There is a very decent contributor who once edited a tag-Wiki to decapitalize all instances of "Boolean". I reluctantly had to reject the edit. ;(
Not sure if that was due to his Germanic origin, or to the fact that he is a C/C++ programmer. :)
@AdrianMole de-capitalize? wouldn't that usually be correct?
01:06
@AdrianMole capitalization is one thing for us germans. What's MUCH worse are commas
@Turing85 Oh goodness, yes. I've been learning, and the commas are very different.
The commas, that would in English not be there at all, are in German there.
@RyanM No. The wiki was talking about the concept (which is named after a person, so should have a capital), not about any particular variable type, like boolean, in some programming languages.
@RyanM there's a saying in english: "If in doubt, leave it out". In german, it's the other way around.
@RyanM @Turing85 did I get this right for a German writing in English?
@RyanM oh god... that and which...
i think "that" is not preceeded with a comma. A "which" would be.
01:09
@Turing85 To be fair, native English users screw those up constantly too ;-) you'll blend right in.
"Which" is generally preceded by a comma, but "that" generally isn't. Except in phrases that have, "that which". :-P
@Turing85 Correct - I was attempting to write a sentence somewhat translating word-for-word from German.
... shouldn't it then end with a verb?
In german it would be: "Hunde, die bellen, beißen nicht"
My example sentence is very awkward English at best, and arguably wrong.
Yep :-)
No commas in that in English.
@RyanM The correct English version would be: Commas that would not be there in English at all are there in German.
01:14
I always mix up "much" and "many"...
many = countable, much = not countable
many integers, but much reals? x)
they're both just "viel" in German, right?
hahahaha.
Okay, that's...hmmmm.
I want to say "many" for both but hmmmmmmmm.
@RyanM yes. But then... you have "abzählbar" and "überabzahlbar" (countable and "over-countable"). There is another notion of not-countable, e.g. fluids. Those would be measureable ("messbar").
on a mathematical level, fluids "behave-like" real numbers (wrt. to incountability). But that's not intuitive for most people.
and on a physical level, everything that is observable seems to be countable, thanks Planck.
01:38
@RyanM they are both countable so yeah - assuming reals = real numbers
@MarcoBonelli There are an uncountably infinite number of real numbers :-)
Same for integers I guess lol
Nope! There is a countably infinite number of those.
Oh, I see what you did there
@RyanM Yes, but that should be after the ceiling is calculated, not when the ceiling is calculated.
And it should be explicit casting, not implicit.
 
2 hours later…
03:58
Dang this is frustrating, youtube is trying to sell me a Python course...
 
1 hour later…
05:07
@bad_coder I don't think this qualifies for a request here, it doesn't have any recent activity
06:31
interesting, the profile page for this (abusive) user shows only one answer: stackoverflow.com/users/19066369/hecker?tab=answers, though they posted two answers, albeit to the same question
is this a bug? or some feature of the profile page?
They are unregistered so this may indeed be three different unregistered accounts
hmm... that makes sense... those are two different accounts with the same name and avatar...
sorry, three accounts with the same name and avatar, and similar childish answers
wondering if the people that voted to delete also flagged those posts
No need to waste delete votes on those posts as 6 R/A flags nuke them also
seems not everyone knows about this...
same people who vote to close as spam ;)
07:00
that's a spammer one class above the ones automatically detected by Smokey :)
Yeah, you really need to click on the link to see it's nothing to do with the question...
I am tempted to edit out the spam links out of those posts, however I'm not sure that's the best course of action for those posts
hmm... does anyone know why the Community user deleted this answer stackoverflow.com/a/72154685/1974224?
it doesn't seem to look like spam, it has one upvote, no (negative) comments, the user is a deleted one, so maybe the user deletion caused the answer deletion alaso?
@Cristik It looks like the entire user was destroyed which deletes all the content from that user. You can't click on the user anymore which is the give away.
07:16
@Cristik If it was only once, I'd agree. But doing it again means it should be flagged as spam
@Cristik The answer is a copy and paste from above, so probably the user was destroyed for that reason and only had that content
It's not an exact copy+paste, but definitively the same answer
@Nick flagging non-obvious spam might not be effective, for both the reporter and the mod reviewing the flag, I'd personally go with a custom flag instead, which allows to add more details
@Cristik yes, you're probably right in this case. Did you mod-flag it?
right at this moment, composing the custom flag message :)
07:31
@Cristik :)
@richardec As Machavity said, most of those buttons are added by userscripts (multiple different userscripts, not just one). Pretty much the only thing that mods natively have that regular users don't is the "mod" link under each post, preceding the "share" link, which opens a pop-up similar to the "close" dialog you can see, except with different mod-only options (like clearing spam flags, seeing associated review tasks, etc.).
@richardec Virtually all of them are, in fact, extremely useful, and once you have them available for a while, it becomes very hard to live without them. Some users and even new mods are a bit intimidated by having such options added to the page, because many of them are "dangerous". They're certainly not meant to be clicked indiscriminately. Most are quite rarely used. But when they are useful, and you know what to do with them, they save massive amounts of time.
@AdrianMole Is the hint that I should cast more downvotes from my main account, rather than my downvoting sock? Hmm, I'll take it under advisement...
@RyanM Oh, interesting!! I've definitely noticed that native German speakers, when writing English, will insert commas in a lot of unusual places but following a relatively predictable pattern. What I didn't know was that it was actually correct to use commas in those places in German. When I learned German in school and I asked about commas, I was, essentially, told that Germans rarely use commas.
Die Lehrerin told me that my attempt to use commas in German similar to how I use them in English was wrong and I should just stop because I was using way too many. :-)
@AdrianMole In English, commas never precede the word "that" unless you'd need to insert a comma at that point anyway without "that". In other words, if you're adding a comma to set off an inline parenthetical phrase, then that rule dictates that you must use a comma, regardless of and despite the fact that such a phrase may begin with the word "that".
There are a bunch of complicated rules for why that's true, but it's fundamentally true, and remembering that no commas go before "that" is a very effective way to ensure that your grammar will be correct.
 
1 hour later…
09:24
^ that question is a request for recommendations, isn't it? Surprised that it survived for so long.
Indeed. There was one vote to close, on July 24, 2021, but that aged away, with no reviewers ever weighing in.
@halfer Looks like that was answered without seeing any actual code. Is that not reasonable? Sometimes, error messages are detailed and contextualized enough that they can be reproduced and solved without a specific code example. We only need the code example to aid in answering the question (it is not beneficial to future researchers). Thus, if the question can be validly understood and answered without it, we shouldn't close on that basis. (Just asking; this is outside my SME.)
@CodyGray I did think about that, but I found it so meagre that I think the MCVE reason can be applied to it. The question I ask myself is "is this of the minimal quality that I would include it in Stack Overflow published questions". I'd argue "no" to that, but I would not object to my request here being removed if there was disagreement (go ahead if you wish).
@halfer The rationale is understandable, and I don't have nearly enough subject-matter expertise to feel comfortable raising a formal objection to your request. Thanks for clarifying your thoughts.
@Cristik that one came up during this latest burnination. One of the posts had (now) moderator Brad Larson saying in the comments (dup of 1 and 2) since he didn't take care of it back then I posted it now. (@rene)
10:17
@SurajRao Indeed it is the same, but they are all saying the same. I voted to close as typo, also went ahead and protected
Could a good edit save this no MRE? stackoverflow.com/q/72083471/5468463
11:35
Is this NAA?
@bad_coder I don't think it is an answer. It maybe could be a comment. It feels like rant.
@StephenOstermiller agreed.
@StephenOstermiller Also my feeling, but I haven't had luck with NAA flags... If someone feels like raising a flag that'd be great.
@bad_coder done and done.
@bad_coder declined flags don't hurt you
11:39
@StephenOstermiller I went a couple of months without raising flags, afterwards I raised 3 or 4 NAA half were declined and I got flag suspended.
well, that hurts. :)
Anything will pass the VLQ queue... Sometimes I raise a flag twice with different outcomes. Suppose I'll wait to get 20k...
11:51
@StephenOstermiller Sometimes they hurt me! Like that time I had to reallly stretch my finger in order to reach over and click the "decline" button. I think it was sore for a while.
I feel really bad for you mods sometimes
12:06
At least we know where to get good support for our QuickBooks
@CodyGray if only the phone number actually worked :( I'm really upset about that. Its one thing to spam, but to spam and not even have a working number? How are the mods supposed to get their QuickBooks working?
I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out my Coinbase.
@CodyGray Can probably get a compensation lawyer for that 😼
 
3 hours later…
15:02
@TylerH @AmitJoshi @ZoestandswithUkraine (and @tripleee as a closer) A question you deleted... a year ago, is being discussed on meta
@NickstandswithUkraine :p
user17242583
Here is the link to the Meta discussion: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/417917/…
@NickstandswithUkraine Better late than never!
user17242583
"Here is the link to the Meta discussion:" - now who edited that into my message? :)
That was me. Was just about to ping you and explain there is a rule in this room forbidding one-boxing.
15:09
FWIW, it says in the revision history for chat messages who edits them
user17242583
Ah yes, I remember that one, and I usually comply with it, but when I sent the message all I saw was the link and then I quickly switched to a different tab without noticing the expansion of the link. Thank you, @CodyGray :)
user17242583
@NickstandswithUkraine For some reason I didn't know I was able to see that. Thank you.
user17242583
15:32
Is SO slow for anyway? The pages are loading incrementally for me (occasionally stopping in the middle of a word!)
@richardec I'm getting occasional hangs on page loads
I keep seeing low-quality questions that are missing essential information. Maybe it is related?
Yep. I'm getting extremely slow spells, intermittently, on some pages.
... possibly, (only) pages where scripts are running?
16:12
Is this one on-topic?
@bad_coder I thought so when I edited it.
16:29
@rene maybe a dup?
@DanielWiddis yeah, sometimes theoretical stuff is considered off-topic but that Q&A is pretty good together.
@ZoestandswithUkraine in a burnination, closed posts are deleted semi-automatically... But is there a cut-off in terms of votes? Like, do +10 and up Qs also get deleted automatically?
@bad_coder Gets close to the "high quality encyclopedia" goal. :)
AFAIK, all deletions are manual, aside Roomba ones, where the rules are standard
@DanielWiddis yes, if it's good it's sometimes worth overlooking.
@ZoestandswithUkraine meaning in the qa burnination mod will click/visually check over 500+ posts?
Beyond that, I'm personally under the impression that most off-topic questions get thrown in the meat grinder
@bad_coder Although I did VTC this one as opinion based, even though there are somewhat decent answers.
16:34
@bad_coder Oof, that's not gonna be fun
@bad_coder plenty, for example: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/72707/…
@rene was needing something on SO not MSE :P
Or 10k users with spare delvotes
@DanielWiddis ok, criteria on that one is: might be on the theoretical side but applied to the tagged tech so it adds context and value on the subject. (It's a matter of having a good canonical at least...) cc @ZoestandswithUkraine
16:36
@bad_coder I was on the fence there. So perhaps I should retract?
@bad_coder That's the tricky part
@ZoestandswithUkraine guessing I'll ping you when everything's closed&retagged and only deletion is left to be done.
I'll have a look later tonight on clearing out the bulk of the currently closed questions at least
@ZoestandswithUkraine ok, I'll Rodgort latter :)
@DanielWiddis I think this one is close and leave for deletion (should be on qa.se). The other one I asked about retract and leave it open (I'm removing the tag now).
16:50
^ Coincidence that answerer and OP have the same name and avatar?
@SmokeDetector the day when spammers will become smart is going to be the death of us
@JeanneDark Pure happenstance I'm sure
Their comment under their own question contains the same link
 
2 hours later…
18:39
Is this on-topic?
it doesn't seem on-topic
user17242583
@cigien I suspect not. The only code on the whole page is name = "viewport"
@DaImTo Just FTR, that question is a self-dupe
True, there isn't any code, but that's not strictly necessary. It does seem somewhat programming related to me, even without the code, but I'm not sure.
user17242583
You're right, there doesn't need to be, but it can be a good indicator.
user17242583
18:50
@cigien It also looks a little opinion-based to me — am I right or just not experienced?
I wouldn't say it's opinion-based. Google's algorithm either picks up on it, or not, which isn't really an opinion.
user17242583
There, I edited it a bit to make it not seem so much that way.
20:13
@bad_coder That was "fun"
20:26
Half way through qa at least
@ZoestandswithUkraine I'm sure having unlimited del votes can be fun!
yeah, but outside NAA and VLQ flags, exercising said delvotes is not fun :')
It's slow and just annoying to do
ok 34 closed posts left, rodgort hasn't updated yet.
Did a few just after the refresh
20:34
@ZoestandswithUkraine only reason I don't mass curate entire tags single handedly is to not annoy people. I could easily get addicted to burninations.
Then do I have bad news for you; we have 522 burninations to go :')
(give or take)
(not including burninations that go on to being declined)
@ZoestandswithUkraine ok this was my 2nd burnination and I do still have a couple of questions. 1º How do you prioritize which tag to burn next? 2º Is there some number you consider reasonable/unreasonable like more than 3k-4k isn't doable?
Anyway, good job for deleting those 540 posts, it's interesting seeing things unfolding while I'm in the midst of participating.
Anything can be done, but I'm not particularly interested in just jumping straight into an 80k tag or something huge; This one was over 1k and is probably going to take between 1-2 weeks. At the same rate, 80k would take over a year. I'm going to clear big tags with CMs purely to see if we can get any help, but that's a complex mess I don't want to touch yet
And that assumes CMs have anything they can do to help. They've gotten involved in burninations before, but those were actually huge. Not sure where the line goes either
@ZoestandswithUkraine I did get all enthusiastic yesterday and started writing a burn-request for [ide] (total meta tag). But I'll likely take 1-2 weeks to finish the post.
@ZoestandswithUkraine ok, we'll see how it goes. (Not sure if the current team of CM's has a forte for burninating. Maybe featuring the burn for longer would gather more people... Don't know, lets see how it goes. But I'm likely to contribute every so often.)
As for prioritization, I tend to favor the smaller requests first, or clearly off-topic tags. Bigger requests that drag on tend to drag on also take longer. Keeping people who got interested early on for long is tricky. Having a small moderation userbase remains a problem with doing fast and effective burns. The second thing is that we, ironically, have to burn down the burn queue. For that, dealing with the short and/or easy tags helps
20:50
@ZoestandswithUkraine That makes sense..! OK, now I'm in the loop of burninations thanks for letting me now. Don't waste any more of your time texting with me :) if some issue arises about burninations I'll feel free to ping you here.
o/
And a high completion rate does wonders for interest in tag moderation, compared to stalling for 3 years. We already have an increased influx of new requests (burns and otherwise)
Unrelated, probably speaks in favor of creating a dedicated burnination room
user17242583
Unfortunately the poor spammer doesn't know how to link to his site
@ZoestandswithUkraine uh, I think there is the burnination room Rodgort although it's a niche. I don't know, it might make sense (Bad reviews gained traction for being dedicated thematically).
But this burnination stuff sure isn't healthy, at least for me it plays into my internet addiction tendencies. I should have stayed focused on work more...
@bad_coder Rodgort isn't meant for this, already discussed
Came up around the lack of a burn room for the qa burn. We'll see though, only a few burns in anyway
21:10
@ZoestandswithUkraine time for my evening stroll and a coffee, I'm off o/
Is this R/A? Title and body just repeat, "Can you help, please give an authentic answer?"
... I guess sufficient users (or one mod?) thought it was.
21:29
I think that's the first I've ever seen a "thank you" question
I wanted to flag it as NAA ... but couldn't. BRB - off to Meta. :)
Offsite Quickbooks spam...
Not because of that ... but, yeah, not an ideal keyword.
I mean, it doesn't appear to be part of the on-going spam wave, but it is just plugging a (commercial) website.
... seems to be an actual QuickBooks 'support' site. :)
21:40
@AdrianMole A website which (apparently) houses duplicates of a number of the spam posts which have hit SO.
OK - didn't look that deeply at the linked site.
Yeah. I only did because I happened to have a dedicated spam sandbox open for a different project.
Maybe we have found "The Source"? ;)
Nah, I doubt it. Haven't seen a cap flying away yet.

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