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01:22
@Nick yikes
@RyanM yikes?
Yikes. That was the angriest thing I've seen on SO in a little while now.
Right... I often feel the same way about some of the tools I use but so far have managed to avoid posting that on SO :)
Is this a programming question?
@StephenOstermiller Yeah, but closeable for other reasons.
 
2 hours later…
Hey... sorry for the long wait on this... with regard to my last del-pls, I noticed that there was a recent upvote on the answer. Would that make it a useful duplicate after all?
Not a fan of the question, but the answer seems concise enough to be of some use...
@GeneralGrievance No, I don't think so. It seems like an extremely straightforward nullpointerexception-esque dupe. I deleted it.
OK. Thanks for the prompt response.
03:57
@StephenOstermiller heads-up: this suggested edit capitalizing two letters (one in a title with another, worse, grammar error) while incorrectly removing the spacing between sentences was really no improvement whatsoever.
04:50
@mickmackusa Could that be duped to some sort of "how to use backreferences" post?
That seems to be their main issue, other than the fact that using regex for this isn't a good idea in the first place.
05:01
Uhh oops?
@HenryEcker Well, it inspired me to clean up that question, so... could be worse.
@AdrianMole heads up re: this review (maybe this was before this queue was fixed, IDK): please don't use the Community bot Share Feedback option on NAAs, just flag as NAA and leave a comment if desired.
05:16
@RyanM Single-handedly making it both off topic and on topic I see.
@HenryEcker Yes, welllllll...apparently people found the answers helpful, and sometimes it's nice to have a "well you haven't given us any info and even if you do it's probably going to be really hard to narrow down so here's a dupe with everything you could possibly have done wrong" target.
I was going to just delete it if it weren't for all the votes, because there's no way anyone could possibly debug it with what was there.
@RyanM Seems like there's also this one
@HenryEcker Ah, yeah, that's definitely a dupe...I will maybe clean that up later.
Thanks for the link.
> OH MY LORD... I know cursing on here will be bad for my career so I switched to another account just so I can so I clearly describe how much I despise jupyter.
...I feel like they had to know the red flag was coming.
05:34
@RyanM If I was going to endorse using an inappropriate tool for parsing an HTML document, yes, I'm sure the isolated technique of how to use back references to match starting and ending tags is Resolved Elsewhere.
As a sometimes-lazy person, I have absolutely parsed specific HTML with regex in personal projects or one-off scripts, because it was easier and I knew that it was always in a format that would follow that.
@SmokeDetector ...really, mate?
@RyanM but it is not incredibly labor-intensive to copy-paste the ready-made DOMDocument/Xpath snippets that can be found on SO. The XPath syntax is really English-friendly.
@RyanM Apparently more than one
06:06
@HenryEcker They misspelled the profanity that time. That makes it better, right?
@mickmackusa In my defense, I did most of this when I was like...16. I'd probably use an XPath tool now (and I'm sure ecosystems have improved as well).
06:21
@RyanM Definitely. Only 487 more letters to go and it'll get to the correct state of it not having been posted.
@HenryEcker Hmmm, I guess I suspended them a little too quickly for them to get there. Oops.
@RyanM Your finger must've just slipped I'm sure.
07:03
@mickmackusa are you aware that this PHP question is being deleted? Are you in favor or against deletion?
The question seems poorly specified, but there's no duplicate links and it has a lot of views
@blackgreen I was curious if I already voted to delete ...I did. It is a very poor mcve. I may have been the first deleter. Time will tell when the names are listed.
I'm inclined to put the final nail on the coffin, but wondering if any argument can be made for preserving
if it were a duplicate, I would already have voted
@blackgreen you can be sure that it is a mega-duplicate. We have other pages that demonstrate "how to access json data" in PHP.
can you fish out a good dupe for this?
@blackgreen As a ceremonial flower on the coffin?
07:07
yes exactly
:D
uhm, the Q though talks specifically about passing the decoded json to echo
well, you are the gold badge
gone
Here's the other one that I hammer with almost daily: How can I access an array/object? Especially, when they ask how can I get this particular value; show no coding attempt; then try to bite their own ear.
even if it weren't a dupe, that now deleted Q probably deserved to go, I had to read it multiple times to even figure out what it was asking
plus, two PHP gold badges VtD. no regrets
I was just surprised that it stayed at the top of the moderator tools list for so much time
@blackgreen it was a massive dupe. I don't really know why it wasn't closed as one to begin with. As you say, it was poorly written and didn't really provide much of a signpost, even if it had been closed as a dupe. Hence I also vtd'd it
@mickmackusa I was looking for that earlier. Got an OP who thinks $arr = var_export(...) is how to write code...
07:36
@blackgreen not a go expert, it seems that one actually has a pretty well written q&a?
@Nick that question is a mess, I'm going to explain you why
1) the title and what the OP was actually interested in are completely different. The title is still a duplicate and answered by this (like, literally copy-pasting the first part of the A) 2) what the OP was actually interested in is the error message, which is also a duplicate (see dupe link) [cont]
3) they clarified (read: gave hints) all of this in a subsequent question post-closure, instead of editing the first one
given the significant lack of clarity and exact duplication, I think the Q is best gone
btw thanks for asking, I'm always available to provide rationale for my votes
(can also add 4) lack of focus, as in they were asking about the error message and what is any in the same question)
@blackgreen thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
08:47
"This meandering evangelistic rant displays exactly the kind of pseudo religious attitude that seems to permeate the TDD community."
@RyanM Hmm. I'm struggling to figure out why I chose that option in review. I can see why I might have been reluctant to flag as NAA: is the 2nd sentence maybe a rhetorical question? And the could the last be trying to say that it's not configurable? But then, it's still not really an answer ... though maybe just barley sufficiently resembling an attempt for me to not want to flag it. But "Skip" would have been the better option, for me, in that particular case.
@tripleee ^ pls trash, OP updated
@tripleee → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
09:07
@JeanneDark I was going to congratulate you on the 1k milestone ... but then, your profile seems to suggest that would be premature. ;(
Thanks, but it's not that important a milestone anyway ;)
... Have you been doing some atypical downvoting?
All my downvotes are typical.
@JeanneDark Split vote scores can be useful for curation.
Mine are, too
09:09
I was being atypically sarcastic. :)
I agree, it's not totally useless but it pales in comparison to many other privileges
IMO the two key privileges are 10k del questions and 20k edit tag wikis without approval
(rep-based privileges)
@blackgreen I have been enjoying my early access to the latter, I must say.
I can finally access the "Improve Edit" button for tag wiki suggestions.
No, more important are 1) participate on MSO, 2) flag/vote up, 3) vote down
3k close/reopen is perhaps the most significant, for curation purposes.
09:13
@AdrianMole right, I was going to add that to the list
Agreed on the 3k. Flagging is important but also very easy to get.
Maybe easy to get, but with 5 rep you can overturn moderator decisions
@StephenOstermiller What is the replacement for @exclude? Is there one? Going off of your answer, how would I exclude the chat subdomain from the matches?
I got my sockpuppet the flag privilege (via suggested edits) to test some stuff. Although it's current at 1 rep due to the fact that I suspended it as part of testing some other stuff...
@RyanM I'd say MSO and flagging are the by far most powerful ones (unless you are a mod) and you get them pretty early.
09:16
MSO and flagging are still pretty powerful, even if you are a mod.
(I have no idea what y'all are otherwise talking about.)
@CodyGray Privilege to see vote counts
and that RyanM suspended his own sock-puppet
@JeanneDark Almost entirely useless.
It's only something you miss if you're used to clicking there out of habit on sites where you have the rep.
(also there's a userscript that gives you 95% of the benefit without getting the privilege)
But a zero-scored terrible answer can be seen to be suspicious if it has 2 up and 2 down.
09:20
Almost as suspicious as if it has had no votes at all? As if it had not been reviewed or vetted by the community?
... the 2 ups could indicate socks. The 2 down would likely be curators attempting to redress.
An answer with 500 upvotes and 50 downvotes is probably much worse than an answer with 450 upvotes and no downvotes, but the scoring algorithm ranks them equally.
But can even < 1k rep users see vote summaries in the timeline?
@RyanM Unless those upvotes came recently, which makes the answer "trendy".
@AdrianMole I remember it being not that easy and not always possible. I think sometimes I could infer the vote count, but not always.
09:26
It suddenly occurs to me that SE should almost certainly be ranking by something like the lower bound of the 95% CI for the proportion of voters that would upvote, or something to that effect.
@JeanneDark the absolute worst part about this privilege is that it doesn't work from the mod dashboard.
09:46
Got a really strange Announcer badge yesterday. Either someone is interested in my posts from the Graveyard, or the unique IP addresses needn't have found their way to the post by visiting my link.
@JeanneDark Weirdly, your share link shows up as a search result on Google. I'm not actually sure what that means, though.
@CodyGray Excludes haven't been deprecated. You can still use @exclude with @match
@StephenOstermiller I see. Thanks!
@RyanM I missed the removal of the space. :(
10:04
I got my (only) announcer badge from editing a link in an answer I came across in review. It's in a tag for which I have no knowledge and more than a pinch of contempt.
@AdrianMole apparently I've got 5; 4 related to MATLAB, and one in Java which I know nothing about :P Apparently I edited an answer, but I don't think I ever shared a link to that
Sorry ... I have 2: Flutter and regex.
One is, I think, from a comment linking a related/dupe. xD
10:26
@Adriaan NVM about that; I was on page 2 of the answers, rather than page 1. There's a lot of answers scoring rather high
11:20
If a user asks explicitely not for coding, is it still on-topic? stackoverflow.com/questions/71977588/…
What is code
Doctor! He's coding
11:37
@Dharman I assume it's just without writing the code for it yourself. It can be on-topic. The one you showed is for a tool (Unity), so maybe there is something you can enable or integrate to get control over a character which works out of the box. I'd still class it as a tool question.
12:03
@VLAZ Code-free coding?
12:18
Does anyone know how to code in Debezium? stackoverflow.com/questions/72009607/…
Is this about programming?
@Adriaan already migrated
@Dharman Well, ~300 of the ~700 questions in that tag have answers, so presumably somebody knows.
@NathanOliver faster than a mod flag I see :D
It was reported by SD in Charcoal.
13:45
Hmm. Why can't we close duplicate questions posted by the same user, when the original is deleted? xD. I mean, we can VTC for the same reasons as the original, but not as a dupe.
I guess because then the dupe link would 404 for non-10k users
Can always mod flag those. I've handled that one tho
I would support a feature request for that to be allowed though
@Machavity Handled in what sense?
13:48
@AdrianMole We have a canned mod message for question repetition. Most users just don't know the rules there. Very few folks do it after a mod lets them know
Ah, OK.
We also have a "delete" button.
The most important of all ;)
@CodyGray "also"? That implies you have other buttons.
We do, of course, have other buttons. For example, the "suspend" button.
13:56
There's also the <insert snark> button
That's the whole keyboard.
@JeanneDark I thought that is what you press to make somebody a moderator.
@TylerH thank you!
@VLAZ Are you saying Cody wasn't snarky before he became mod? ;)
@Makyen ok that's what I thought. Unlucky. I was looking for a way to just receive the stream of messages since I see the chat web page uses a websocket, but strangely I don't see all messages on that websocket, just some of them. And I don't see any other requests either. Weird. Will need to dig deeper and look around as you say.
13:58
@JeanneDark Snark is like chocolate - you can always have more of it.
Now we'd need a way to measure snarkiness
@tripleee I see, makes sense, thanks for the info
@MarcoBonelli I haven't really looked at the raw WebSocket, but as I understand it, you have to send a subscription for each room you're interested in receiving messages.
@MarcoBonelli from what I recall there's a timestamp thingy you can send
(it's been a while since I've been involved in doing any actual writing of stuff for chat)
@VLAZ The darker the better?
14:11
@Makyen yeah I figured there was something I was missing, I'll see... after all I like reverse engineering.
@CodyGray Yes. Also, don't leave in the warm for too long.
@JonClements noted thx!
@JonClements o/
@TylerH woof woof o/
@MarcoBonelli Also, as I understand it, that you subscribe to a room on the WebSocket is what indicates you've joined the room. Anonymous viewing of the room is implemented by polling for new messages (i.e. new chat events), not using the WebSocket.
The various Chat tabs you have open also communicate chat events between tabs using localStorage. You can see the current state of those messages with Object.fromEntries(Object.keys(localStorage).filter((key) => key.startsWith('chat')).map((key) => [key, JSON.parse(localStorage[key])])).
14:19
@JonClements throws scooby snack
@Adriaan awww... you're still my favourite pink elephant... :p
@Makyen yeah it's weird looking at the messages on web socket here on chat.SO, I think when I was doing it I had more than one tab open and I was just missing this part about tabs communicating between each other. Didn't know they were communicating through localStorage, thx.
@JonClements uhhuh, and the only one you have to force yourself not to think about or what ;)
I'd rather be throwing the little spearrel about, but he seems to have flown of to the moon
If I only keep one tab open it seems pretty simple, one message per event (chat message/join/leave/etc).
@MarcoBonelli If you're just looking at the raw WebSocket, I'd expect that there's going to be a single message per event in each room, even if you are subscribed to multiple rooms. Events should indicate which room they're for.
14:30
lmao this one is pretty funny
@Makyen yes, that seems to be in line with my observations.
Evidently Smokey is not fan of Slim Shady
@Adriaan well, when you were lifting 'em up last time you went overboard and flung 'em a bit too far... :( You don't know the strength of your own trunk sometimes... sighs
15:36
Is this closable as OB or for asking for recommendation? stackoverflow.com/q/52033686/5468463. I am having a hesitation after voting
 
1 hour later…
17:43
@Vega Yes
17:58
Comment excerpt of the day: "we aren't a gratis freelancer service (unless a question is tagged SQL :) )"
lol
or regex
then someone will answer your Q and someone else will delete it for you
haha. accurate.
18:25
Do you guys know the scene from "Seeing Bruges and dying" with the americans?
I don't know the work, let alone the scene...
sounds a little macabre
19:03
@Turing85 ah In Bruges, I have heard of that
still haven't seen it, though
The archaic "too localized" close reason was used on this question that I found while on my array transpose crusade. I found the question to be clear and unique within the context of transposing keys and values into two-element subarrays (of the 86 topical pages that I reviewed). I edited the question and ticked that it should be reviewed as reopenable. 3 reviewers felt it should stay closed, I disagree. What do you think?
@mickmackusa It feels like we already have better canonical for this
I can reopen it, but wouldn't it be better to just remove it?
19:25
@Dharman I added a link in my comment under the question to relate the page to the canonical, but felt it was sufficiently different as a use-case for the task. This is relative to the tens of other pages that were much more directly covered by the canonical. I was trying to leave some diversity in the implementations of the technique. Overall, I'm "meh" about keeping the page. If you wanna remove it just delete it.
@mickmackusa It has 101 views in 9 years. I don't think that's indicative of a useful signpost.
@mickmackusa I reopened it. The close reason doesn't apply IMHO. If you think it's a dupe, hammer
@HenryEcker The old title was "array key to value" which I'm surprised didn't grab more eyeballs with its vagueness.
The bottom three answers on stackoverflow.com/questions/30680938/… could be sensibly removed. I don't feel like del-pls'ing 3x.
 
1 hour later…
20:33
@mickmackusa Granted, it can be frustrating, but if you would like action taken on a post here you do need to make an explicit request for it and give a reason why each post should be actioned.
20:51
It is also, of course, pretty simple if you use the request generator userscript. I vaguely recall you mentioning you don't use them (maybe just on your work computer?) although I don't recall and can't immediately find the details.
The hard part is coming up with a legitimate reason for deletion, rather than just downvoting.
@CodyGray Not enough toilet emojis being used?
That's my usual reason
@CodyGray Eh, the hard part is arguing for non-deletion: finding value in a heap of crap.
 
2 hours later…
23:10
@jmoerdyk This seems to fall under When is a resource request on-topic?
Is it appropriate that I cannot upvote this questions? meta.stackoverflow.com/q/285551/2943403
Create a sock-puppet; use that to copy/paste the content into a new question, then upvote that from your main account.
... maybe a friendly mod will then merge the Qs (and the votes).
23:38
@mickmackusa It is not. Unfortunately, the wiki lock has the effect of locking voting. I wish that were not the case, but I don't have access to the SO codebase, so I cannot fix it.
@AdrianMole It's also possible that an unfriendly mod will delete the sockpuppet account and suspend the main account. Whether you want to roll that die depends, I suppose, on your perception of the relative proportion of friendly to unfriendly mods.
I also find it odd that a wiki lock prevents the question from being edited... It seems counter to the primary purpose of a wiki
Yeah, it should really just block new answers. That's literally the only point of a wiki lock.
From a design consistency standpoint I wonder why the voting panel appears with up and down buttons if they are not actionable. In contrast to the historical lock where the content clearly cannot be voted on.
23:53
In general, it's counterproductive that any lock other than the historical lock blocks voting.
I'm not even sure that the historical lock should block voting. I see a strong argument for the content lock blocking voting, but even then... no.
So there are just 3 levels of lock granularity? Historical, Comments-only, and then everything else blocks everything with different notice banners?
@HenryEcker Because the historical lock is "special". The original design philosophy here, coming from Joel Spolsky, is that UI elements should never be hidden, just disabled, so that information can be provided on why they are disabled.
@HenryEcker Yes. Comments-only is relatively new. Historical has been around a while, but was always special. The other locks are all the same thing, just with different reasons.

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