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00:45
Yeah, we also have stackoverflow.com/q/14894899/1839439 so I deleted the other one
@Dharman Why delete that? On its own it had gotten 92k views (about 1/2 the views of the dup-target). Closed as a duplicate, it seems like it would make a reasonable signpost.
@Makyen It doesn't seem to be on topic to me
@Dharman On its own, that's not a reason to delete a question that's demonstrated that it's useful. That's a reason to close and/or apply a historical lock.
Since we have the same content available already keeping it with historical lock isn't useful
@Dharman It appears to be useful as a signpost.
01:01
Feel free to undelete and lock if you think we lost some value
01:34
@Dharman, @Makyen I really do not think that stackoverflow.com/q/14894899/5468463 is on-topic, no matter the upvotes. The recommendation of the library is for an other question, "touching" the coding. And it is already done here stackoverflow.com/a/20349730/5468463 . It is asking some basic knowledge info
^it is in reference to the previous dialog, not as a request or something related to you as mods :)
02:02
@Dharman As the one who submitted the initial cv-pls on that, I did initially have a hesitation on closing it simply because of the issue of "tags" between it and the dupe I selected which had a very clear programming requirement: SQL # of characters. I still thought it might be useful as a closed question as a "signpost" that was not SQL-specific.
It also listed a "minimum" (which I have zero reason to think is programmatically useful except maybe as a unit test)
As for deleting, I'd ask if any of the answers of that (generic min+max) question were not duplicative of the SQL "max" question. Deleting a question is also deleting its answers so the "usefulness" question is bigger.
(And I now see the other question with the minimum and answers that cover that case, so I'm ok with the deletion, although would have left it alone myself.)
@Vega The question you linked to has the [validation] tag and specifically refers to validating user-input. That seems entirely on-topic to me. And while in theory a regex answer could answer that, it's entirely more complicated than a minimum length input check for a user field.
02:54
@DanielWiddis the tag is there by necessity for the question to exist. And of course we can guess that it might be used to make use in some kind of validation in a code, but it is not related to programming. It is same as to ask how many angles a square has (sorry for the banalising, but it is the first thing that comes to mind)
@Vega I'm not going to try to mind-read what the OP wanted to know in 2013. I do know that I often write unit tests to validate that I have received the correct output from a method, and it is useful for me to have a test that confirms the number of characters I received is greater than or equal to a specific value.
Then the question needs to be more programming oriented
@Vega Including the words "i need to validate user input" seems 100% programming oriented to me. In what other context do you find user input?
@Vega A peer-reviewed paper on validating input under the "computer science" topic seems to confirm my gut feel. :) Quote from the paper: "Data size: If the data is a string, is it of the correct length?"
03:27
Is this an answer to the question?
03:37
@HenryEcker It's an attempt to answer.
04:24
@HenryEcker It is not in my book. If it is, then the question is off-topic (typo)
@DanielWiddis Without going farther, the paper makes use of the theory in a use, i.e. in regex. Then we have a bunch of dup targets, one of them being the question with the answer in my first message
The paper in fact confirms that validation without application in coding is off-topic
@Vega Oh? Which part?
@HenryEcker I don't think its NAA. But I wasn't sure if it was a useful answer. It looks to me like "make sure you have all the code you want to run selected when you 'run selected'" which seems a bit like a "have you tried restarting your computer" type answer.
@HenryEcker that's what I implied with "attempt". As in, not NAA-flaggable but not useful.
@HenryEcker Also, talking to yourself is the first sign of insanity. :)
@DanielWiddis Most assured, I'm way past first signs.
The response was to both of you, but replying to multiple messages isn't possible so I made it a follow up to the initial.
04:45
@HenryEcker There's also a canonical I'm getting an IndentationError. How do I fix it?
@HenryEcker I've been searching for that! It doesn't come up when you google the actual error. I must bookmark it for future dupe closing
 
2 hours later…
06:22
@jps that even smells of spam
jps
jps
found these ^ while checking a new tag , looks quite spammy
Best part is: all their links end up being 404
06:34
@jps agreed, all (two) questions on that tag look like attempts to promote a new service, i.e. this answer is clearly spam, flagged it accordingly
jps
jps
@Cristik that's indeed very spammy.
 
3 hours later…
jps
jps
10:28
@StephenOstermiller needs focus, asking for external resources, off-topic, ...
@desertnaut this question you hammered has been edited. Maybe you want to take a second look?
FWIW, the [pandas] tag is still there
the question still seems off-topic to me
 
1 hour later…
jps
jps
11:54
@JeanneDark tried to delete but got: "This question cannot be deleted because other questions are linked as duplicates of this one."
@jps Sorry, I just noticed that an hour later they reposted the same question again and it was closed as duplicate.
We can delete the linked question then delete the one that links it...
@NathanOliver Regarding the above request of mine (closed unclear question is dupe target of OP's later agaian reposted question), would the correct procedure now be to bin that request and could I then request deletion of the dupe (it has a code-only answer), so as to not target that OP?
nvm, dupe target was just deleted
... went before I could submit the del-pls request. :)
12:01
@JeanneDark I don't think the removal is needed.
I agree.
thanks
^ Should we be editing-out gibberish added to pass the SO quality test? @blackgreen
@AdrianMole well the alternative is to leave a post with gibberish out there
Or close, downvote and delete it?
12:05
downvoting seems an enticing option. as for closure, I didn't really want to spend time evaluating that
You could flag questions with gibberish to circumvent the quality filters as R/A since they are abuse of the system... At least Cody would approve, I think
but now that we've been discussing it
@JeanneDark Well, so long as Cody approves, who cares if other mods decline my flags? :-)
Only flag when Cody's here ;)
12:09
or use only custom flags and prepend the content with "For Cody — "
We should all write love letters to the mods that way.
(risk of getting declined with decline reason "I'm not Cody")
But there is a problem with such questions and editing out the gibberish doesn't help, since it also doesn't substitute it with an explanation of the problem. So you could argue that they should at least be closed as "needs debugging details" or "needs details or clarity".
I went with "need details or clarity".
Usually the presence of gibberish is a good predictor that the question is close-worthy. In this particular case I wasn't very keen to evaluate the merits of the post so I did the bare minimum to not leave gibberish around.
But yeah, I was being lazy and it'd be best to do something more helpful
12:20
Cody: "Filling a post with gibberish as a way of defeating our (dumb) quality filters is something that I strongly feel is abusive."
I'm not sure if there is a feedback option we can give Smokey for such posts but there should be one, IMHO. We definitely want the bot to continue to catch such gibberish-fillers.
Who is teaching new users to resolve questions via comment? stackoverflow.com/questions/71998163/…
Doesnt that question lack MRE? the code is an external site...
@mickmackusa Lots of big-time users do that - maybe they're just imitating them?
@SurajRao no disagreement there.
@AdrianMole I fear that is the most likely reason -- bad role modeling.
12:27
Hard to eradicate such behaviour, though.
<-- bad role model
<-- needs to be eradicated
@StephenOstermiller Then maybe you should propose an eradication model (good or bad) on Meta?
I prefer to be exterminated by Daleks
I can sympathize with that thought.
14:06
Is there any API for SE chat messages? Maybe someone here who developed extensions knows...
@MarcoBonelli No, AFAIK
See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/57040/… for the official response back in the day. And meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308327/… for a more recent answer by our own rene
Although some users have attempted their own github.com/Kamilczak020/StackOverflow-Chat-API
@MarcoBonelli There isn't a documented, supported SE Chat API. All interfacing with it is done using the internal APIs which the chat system uses. All information/use by non-SE code is based on reverse engineering what's available/used by SE. There's some documentation on what other's have found spread around on MSE and Stack Apps. There are a variety of libraries which implement at least a portion of what's available (again, on MSE and Stack Apps).
In addition, you can also look at existing userscripts to figure out how they handled doing things.
What TylerH said. There are some userland attempts at "API-ficiation", but SE devotes very little dev effort to chat
I'm losing my touch. Sniped by Makyen
@MarcoBonelli SmokeDetector uses a Python library called ChatExchange by ManishEarth which seems reasonably stable, though it breaks because of SE-side changes occasionally. It basically scrapes the chat page
14:12
And, after I was ninga'd by TylerH. :)
I believe there are some Javascript namesakes and other competitors
@Machavity Now that's bad ;-)
@tripleee While ChatExchange does scrape some pages, which is the only place some information is available, it also uses the internal APIs and directly connects to the WebSocket. So, it's doing quite a bit more/better than just scraping pages. :;
14:34
This question - and the comments on it - is rapidly deteriorating into a mess. I might even consider a U/U flag on one of the later comments by OP.
... U/U flagged it, for good measure. :)
Thanks, @Machavity.
The C question? Yeah, that was devolving quickly
15:42
@blackgreen thanks, I added a 2nd dup and a comment
16:12
Comment of the day: "Bruh i always feels like i have to write a good question to get a answer?"
10
Wow! I can hardly believe that.
Life is unfair
@RyanM Leopard eat my face too much?
17:33
@RyanM literally the worst
17:45
@StephenOstermiller I realized after I migrated this that I missed the typo ("Is this...is possible") in your edit, in case you feel like touching it up.
sure, will do
Thanks!
So, TIL that you can rearrange the dupe targets when you are editing the list of targets. I really like that.
4
@NathanOliver Yes, it's a killer feature IMHO
17:59
super useful for when you want to make sure most clicks are on the most relevant one, even if you find it/add it after others
Yeah. Before I would remove everything and the re-add them in the order I wanted
^ that somehow survived for 3 months...
Just wow
and unfortunately even if we delete the rep is locked-in.
Yeah, bummer
Yeah, that's unfortunate. but it's gone
18:06
@TylerH That's like! :|
o/ Hey team and mods! :)
I could see a lot of new folks here... Wow.
Hey Praveen. It's been a while
I was in a cave for a long time! :|
Yessss!
How is everyone?
Sleepy. Still waking up.
awesome
@NathanOliver Yeah, it's always been that way (i.e. the dup-target entries are draggable), but the drag target on the left is really easy to miss, particularly given that the site really doesn't do much of anything else with dragging within the site (you can drag and drop an image for upload). IMO, there should be text somewhere on that page indicating that dragging is an option.
!!/coffee RyanM
18:10
@Makyen brews a cup of ristretto for @RyanM
Perfect :-)
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Welcome back to the room. I hope everything is going well for you.
@Makyen Yes yes. Was super busy with my YouTube Channel.
It's skyrocketing and hope to get 10k subs.
Cool. Good luck!
Oh, that's exciting! Also hi, I don't think we've really met, though your name is familiar from occasional passing encounters.
18:16
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Heya Praveen, long time no see
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman nice, good luck!
@RyanM Yesss, I am a Full Stack JavaScript Specialist! âš›
A React JS guy basically.
!!/coffee
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman brews a cup of latte for @PraveenKumarPurushothaman
Smokey's deletion functionality is broken for unknown reasons. I deleted it for you.
There's a bug on the GitHub repo for it.
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman Ah nice, I'm working on a sort of Kotlin React-like framework :-)
Or...well, I was. Might be again soon. Been hopping around a bit where help is needed.
18:22
@RyanM Thanks a lot! 🤗
@RyanM Will see if I can make a patch. It's been a long time so I thought I forgot all smokey's commands.
@RyanM Wow. That's super cool.
@RyanM And this is me: Praveen Kumar Purushothaman
@TylerH Yes, I became a YouTuber! :)
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman oh yikes, the Dark Reader extension I use murders your site's readability :-( (not your fault, it does this to some sites)
@RyanM I never imagined this kitty to be so angry! 😅
I am checking out the extension now. Seems interesting.. :)
I am quite fond of it. It definitely has some negative performance implications, but my eyes love it... :-)
I usually remember to turn it off when taking screenshots for Meta, but I forgot once and was promptly asked how I seemed to have dark mode outside of SO proper... :-)
Meta is very observant :D
@RyanM Just respond "I have signed an NDA and will be arrested and jailed in rural Nevada if I break it"
18:29
lmao
@RyanM looks fine to me. Dark Reader for chrome.
@Turing85 hmmmmmm. You must have different settings, did you change the defaults or did I?
@RyanM pretty sure I did only customize on what sites dark reader is activated.
It's been a little on the fritz recently for me (visually breaking a couple of my chat userscripts) and I haven't had a chance to investigate.
My money's on it being the new v5 preview stuff. Gotta poke at it, though.
@GeneralGrievance That is unclear, but I went with recommendation request, since even if clarified it won't be on-topic, and I wouldn't want them to think that's the issue and try to fix it.
Good point. I also think it smells a little spam-seedy, but of course I can't prove that it is one.
18:47
Yeah, I thought that too, but also couldn't find any evidence.
@AdrianMole I'd love to get information on exactly how the system encourages users to upvote and/or accept answers...IMHO, something's missing somewhere.
Or I am underestimating people's determination to not read such things, who knows.
this also isn't a low rep user
@AdrianMole wait, did they thank you and then downvote?
@RyanM Meh. I actually understand why people don't want to "accept" an answer quickly (I even prefer that they don't actually). But not upvoting ... bah!
20:54
@AdrianMole Do I understand your comment correctly? OpenMP is "obsolete"?
They're asking followup questions in a comment
ew
it's almost as if they're holding your answer hostage until you provide more information.
@Turing85 I wouldn't say it's obsolete, at all. Just that, by the time I got round to thinking about using it, I discovered the C++17 std::execution_policy (or whatever it's called). A small amount of experimentation showed that the Standard system was, in almost all cases, at least as good as OpenMP.
... those experiments involved a lot of Googling.
@AdrianMole hmm... interesting. From a quick look, it seems like this is mostly for "looping stuff".
@Turing85 Yeah, but C++17 allows stuffs like: for_each(execution::par_unseq, ....
I'm not saying there won't be cases where OpenMP wins, just that, for my use cases, I don't really see the point.
Don't get me wrong. Independent libraries like OpenMP, boost and Howard Hinnent's date/time stuff have, for sure, been inspirational in terms of incremental changes to the C++ Standards. And long may such continue to be so!
21:11
execpt for OpenMPI. OpenMPI is... let's just say I don't like it.
It wouldn't surprise me if OpenMP is the backbone that the standard parallelism library is implemented with
kind of like how deep down, std::copy and things like it use good old memcpy for trivial types.
^ Agreed.
@RyanM Kinda roolz oot mosst of myy pists.
Haha...perhaps I need more nuanced advice.
21:21
Hic!
I woz gonna post a Meta rsponse ... but then I got high.
@AdrianMole I hate you. Now I have an ear worm.
21:34
But, more seriously, folks, there are some regulars, who I know from being followers of shared tags, that are generally very decent folks but who, nonetheless, occasionally posts weird or out-of-order comments, etc. I assume this is likely due to chemical intake, but I refuse to engage; if the comment(s) is(are) bad enough, I'll flag, but then just move on. (I have been known to engage in chat when intoxicated ... but that's just chat.)
But, even in chat, there are rooolz.
... which I have been known to fall foul of, on occasion.
^ What's that last SD report all about? Is it R/A? Or just ol' fashioned double-D vote?
... or was some random spammer watching the discussion we had in here yesteday?
... I gave it R/A, for abuse of the site.
... and a double-D, for good measure.
Nonsense in my book. Nuked.
@AdrianMole I think that's exactly the idea
@RyanM Ooh - you, too, have a book of nonsense. I have several - maybe we could arrange swaps?
21:56
@AdrianMole Ubisoft goes Steamworks bye bye, always on DRM. ?
^ Flagged for moderator attention! :-P
@AdrianMole Confirmed that moderator has paid attention to the message.
I was about to write that @RyanM doesn't seem to mind :)

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