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12:00 AM
@KevinB Shouldn't it be "+1 for effort"?
 
12:42 AM
No, upvoting R&A posts is bad
 
Is there some sort of cap for reputation lost due to a question? For example this question on MSE just got 400 downvotes in ~24h, but the author lost "only" 900 rep.
 
no
 
Neeeevermind, I'm stupid, forgot that they nerfed downvotes on Qs and they just give -2 rep now. The numbers add up.
 
;)
 
@KevinB or a hero?
 
12:53 AM
depending on perspective
 
 
2 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
6:13 AM
should this one be a delv-plls or does it serve value as a duplicate? The answer looks good but the question sucks stackoverflow.com/questions/70815367/…
 
6:29 AM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica This describes like...virtually every recurring spammer
 
6:58 AM
^ also notice horrible recent NAA ^
 
 
1 hour later…
jps
8:19 AM
@karel aren't [git] questions on-topic on SO?
 
8:48 AM
There is a very famous Python questions with MANY repeated answers. So I will post them all as separate requests and if anyone with some extra del-votes can lend a hand that would be great. Maybe it's also good to protect the question (I still can't)
 
it was protected by @snakecharmerb just now (thanks!)
 
@jps I retracted my close vote.
 
9:11 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by implicit request
 
jps
@karel alright, I was just curious, sometimes it's hard to decide if something is still on- or allready off-topic.
 
9:34 AM
Good Morning. Thoughts on this answer?
https://stackoverflow.com/a/70861210/4218046

The question linked isnt a real duplicate and even if it was, theres the Duplicate Flag for that, so that answer should be deleted alltogether imo. Whats your toughts on that?
 
somebody clearly agreed (-:
 
:D welp that was quick
well*
 
the author deleted it
 
10:28 AM
Hmm. Just had a review audit where the post has a pending suggested edit. Is that supposed to happen?
 
... and another one, just now. Clicking the "Pending edit" button thingy obviously reveals the audit.
But what happens if I go to that edit review and "Approve" it? IIRC, attempting to edit a "known good" will fail the audit.
Actually, I just noticed that those two audits were the same post ... and I have now passed that test four times.
... must pay more attention! :-)
 
jps
11:03 AM
@StephenOstermiller (this is an old post but it was just bumped by a new answer.) - in such cases just add "NATO" to the request "New Answers To Old (Question)"
 
You underestimate my love of typing :)
 
11:41 AM
@StephenOstermiller please include a language tag with your cvpls. This helps SMEs to decide if they want to weigh in or not. Some folks don't care, but I have tags that I dont vote on because I have no experience with specific languages.
 
12:01 PM
How do I clean this up stackoverflow.com/q/70861719/1841839 its just about the same question stackoverflow.com/q/70862741/1841839
 
12:12 PM
^ that's spam actually (SD report)
 
@tripleee sorry I don't see the report.
 
they don't get published here if they only hit experimental reasons
 
I think they mean thwict
 
12:33 PM
@mickmackusa The FAQ says the language tag is for closing as duplicate. Most of the questions I'm asking to have closed don't have a programming language because they are "not programming" or "asking for recommendations." You shouldn't need language-specific domain knowledge to close those types of questions. I watch webmastery type tags like , , and where like 40% of the questions are blatantly off-topic.
 
only 40%?
 
Yes, about 40%. There are quite a few questions with rewrite rules or react in there as well
 
12:54 PM
Morning
 
1:06 PM
site down for maintenance again
wouldn't it be grand if the links on the site down page actually told you about the outage?
even retroactively, so that I could see why it went down yesterday?
back now anyhow
 
BDL
1:34 PM
I'm not sure what to do with this post: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70861767/blazor-show-results-on-a-different-page/70863793#70863793
Seems both, the asker and the answerer misunderstand what answer are for.
 
jps
@BDL NAN flag the posts and give at least one comment what should and what should not be posted in answers
quite a mess that they created there
 
BDL
Thx
 
jps
@BDL NAN will only apply to the OPs answers, the other answers might be partial answers.
 
@tripleee It's not a great duplicate, but it's good enough. There's no other duplicates linked to the target anyway, so I see no reason to delete it.
 
thanks for checking
(out of close votes, so it didn't post the comment on my behalf)
^ if you have flags to spare, this spammer is on a spree across the network
 
2:42 PM
Hmm, do voting reversal notifications not show the rep change anymore?
 
Today in IT: "Hey this thing you built for me yesterday isn't working." 30 seconds later "Oh nvm I was using IE"
 
Who still uses IE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
This coworker of mine apparently
I mean we are a hospital system so I think there are still one or two services that require IE
But I'm a little surprised honestly, this was just a PDF with a button that submits the form via email. I definitely made those back when we were still using Windows 7 and IE was the official company browser
 
Is this on-topic? The answers its attracted are pretty average stackoverflow.com/questions/55669220/…
 
2:56 PM
@snakecharmerb No, it's essentially a library recommendation request
The "main difference" bit is a red herring
Does this showing up on my profile mean that my votes were reversed? Or that votes on me were reversed and the amount just isn't shown anymore (i.stack.imgur.com/KFx26.png)
 
@TylerH no numbers? Strange. I only know that message with a number; when negative usually on sockpuppeteers, when positive for reversed serial downvoting
 
It's the first time I have happened to see it since the profile page regression
so it could just be a bug
 
3:33 PM
@Adriaan Reported it on the MSE mega post meta.stackexchange.com/a/375602/253521
maybe we'll see if it's an edge case or actually a bug that can get fixed
 
3:50 PM
@TylerH In this case, based on public information, this appears to be three votes which you made to questions by a single user which were reversed by the automatic reversal script when it was run at 03:00UTC on 2022-01-26 (which usually means the votes were in the 24 hours prior to that time). Given that they were votes you made on questions, the reversal of them has no impact on your reputation, so there's no reputation change indicated. So, the displayed information is accurate.
 
Hmm, should be some indication
 
imagine getting caught serial voting
 
although it's also unfortunate no more info is shown to me, e.g. I can't go back and re-vote on those questions again more spread out
 
cereal voting
 
because they obviously were just coincidental
 
3:56 PM
@TylerH That sounds like a good thing to me. Users are not supposed to decide that their instance of serial voting was "obviously a coincidence", and then go and repeat the actions in a way that doesn't get caught by the system.
 
that's besides the point
 
@cigien Eh, I'm the best authority at whether I think a post should be downvoted. It's not about circumventing the serial voting script. It's about letting bad content go un-moderated
 
@TylerH Based on the public information, I would not have said the the votes were coincidental.
 
@TylerH I'm confused. Your message suggests that if you had more information about which of your votes were reversed by the serial voting script, you would go and circumvent that reversal by voting again. I'm claiming that's not a good idea. The fact that you feel your specific votes are justified is besides the point. Most users feel that what they're doing is the right thing, after all.
 
if you bookmark all your downvotes, you can always get back to them to vote again
 
4:05 PM
All your polkit belong to us (critical vulnerability that permits local user privilege escalation on systems that uses polkit (most linux desktops)) qualys.com/2022/01/25/cve-2021-4034/pwnkit.txt
 
Don't the reversed votes still appear in the voting history?
 
not usually
though i can't find a recent reversal to check
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I think it's guaranteed if it's your own account.
 
For this answer, would it be beneficial to edit in the tweet text as a quote?
 
70 pages in on downvotes and still not to a year ago
 
4:11 PM
Check mine, less activity ;)
 
i mean
i can't see yours
;)
 
Really?
 
@Makyen I am not surprised; the script has more info than mods. Even I might not be able to tell at this point how it happened. I would need to know my full page traffic at the time to be sure.
 
@Calculuswhiz I think there's some value in having the images remain, as a sortof... proof of what was actually said, in addition to it being text in the post
 
Well, I can't see mine either. The reputation tab is gone!?
Wait, no, was on meta
 
4:13 PM
Bring back Meta.SO reputation! That's what we want.
 
@KevinB Yeah, I would have kept the screenshots around. Just wondering if I should add quotes.
 
@AdrianMole I thought we wanted waffles.
 
Oops, I forgot to finish editing that MSE answer
 
Oh, wait. There's alt text. Never mind.
 
MSE post (and mega-reference answer) have been updated now
 
4:43 PM
@Dharman No, reversals trigger a recalculation, so the votes never happened after that is completed
 
@cigien Yes, I would go and re-view the questions to consider voting on them again. This is not circumventing the script: the script still ran, and still works fine. But re-visiting questions that had votes reversed to do this is fine; even the official MSE FAQ says so. It is only systematic voting on a single user (e.g. "I don't like this user and want to downvote all their stuff regardless of quality!" in a short period of time that the system does not allow.
 
Note that the script is not that simplistic (the eli5 version)
 
avoiding it is
 
5:05 PM
@Braiam If the script could discern when people are voting based on people, it would reverse a lot more (and, ironically, would not have reversed mine)
but of course a script will never be able to discern user intent with voting
 
@TylerH It's the pattern, rather than the intention
 
@TylerH I take it you're referring to "Votes reversed by the detection script can be re-cast by the user at a later time, ..." from the FAQ. I interpreted that as it being allowed to re-cast votes if you come across them organically again, not revisiting those posts because you know that the system reversed your votes on them, in order to vote again.
 
5:21 PM
Would the comment by the OP here qualify as abusive, or is it just plain ol' NLN?
... I went with "abusive".
 
Yeah, I did too.
 
Should be enough buzzwords in there for the auto-delete to kick in.
... gorn.
 
that question sounds like complete nonsense to me
 
It's Lua - isn't it supposed to sound like complete nonsense? ;-P
 
i mean, i've done a decent amount of lua
it wasn't the code that sounds like nonsense
> the safe door thingy I want that cog thingy to spin and the safe to open, now I know how to do this but when I try to weld it
 
5:39 PM
@cigien I think if that were the case, the FAQ would mention that stipulation. It doesn't probably because enforcement/detection would be nearly impossible... certainly infeasible.
The stipulation it does state is "so long as the user does not again engage in serial voting which causes them to be reversed [again]"
 
5:53 PM
Is this trolling?
 
given no additional actions, probably not
 
If you flag a question for needing details/clarity and then it gets edited to have enough details can your flag get declined?
 
do close flags get declined?
or just disputed
the edit itself wouldn't invalidate the flag, it'd have to pass review
 
6:09 PM
@MFerguson IIRC, yes, that can happen, or at least it used to be able to happen prior to the revamping of the review queues. As I recall, your close flag can have a result of any of: "helpful", "disputed", "declined", or "aged away". Which of those happens will depend on the exact results of the Close Vote Review Queue task which is associated with the question and your flag.
 
6:41 PM
Why is plurk blacklisted?
 
there are probably some domains which are blacklisted which shouldn't be; in the absence of an informed opinion, we look at the statistics, which are overwhelmingly TP (10/13) metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/domains/30108
looking at some of the hits, it's probably collateral damage, sort of like Instagram and Pinterest are also featured in many of those posts but were not blacklisted (mainly because we know what they are)
@Braiam can you fill us in, what is Plurk?
 
@tripleee Some kind of twitter
 
demoted to watchlist for now
 
@tripleee That domain seems to be guilty by association
 
speaking of which, errorsolutions.tech is black as soot but they stopped spamming a year ago and now the hits we get are FPs which are I guess when they reap the benefits of successfully hacking their SEO by spamming back then
(and before that they stopped four years ago, but then came back briefly a year ago) metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/domains/19275
notice how the spammers are all female ... another way the spammers are poisoning the commons (to mix metaphors with full abandon)
 
6:52 PM
@DavidBuck meh, I feel bad for the user who answered with that wall of text full of links. Doesn't seem trolling anyway, just your regular new user who doesn't know what's on and off topic.
 
@Braiam Yes, but SD watching for it is still a good signal that the post may be spam, but not at the confidence level we typically use for the blacklist (95%+). In the time which it has been watched or blacklisted, there have been 5 posts scanned which are TP and 2 which are FP. So, while there are legitimate uses, it's a decent indicator that the post may be spam.
 
8:16 PM
can discord stop being broke
 
what's wrong with it?
 
Didn't MS bought it?
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
it's been unaccessible for hours
yet it has no problem showing me that i have a notification i can't access
 
@Braiam No Discord walked away from that potential deal a year ago
 
@KevinB apparently there were compounding issues with the API, maybe the notification api was working or something
 
8:20 PM
Ah, the (at)mentions bit works
 
9:05 PM
 
9:38 PM
Who went through 900 questions with "It looks like your post is"?
 
@Dharman Just got here - why d'ya ask?
 
I was nibbling at them slowly and now I see that they are almost all done
 
I prefer bytes to nibbles. Less UB.
 
@AdrianMole Should we keep this or delete? stackoverflow.com/q/59141313/1839439
 
how does that even happen
 
9:43 PM
@Dharman What harm is it doing?
 
define harm
 
None, so I assume I should just edit
 
@KevinB Dangerous, wasting space, not a good signpost, no decent answer.
 
i don't think "no decent answer" constitutes harm
 
If it's a duplicate, I would accept such reason
 
9:52 PM
if the bad answer is a bad answer, it can be handled independantly, if the question is still a decent sign post
 
@KevinB I am, like, totally harmed by the lack of, like, any decent answer here, omg
 
@KevinB If there's a decent answer, then deleting the Q will remove decent content from public view. We don't (shouldn't) do that.
 
(because everyone needs a daily dose of valley girl)
 
having a decent answer would be an exception
not having one isn't a rule
 
I just need a (thrice-) daily dose of 🍺.
 
9:53 PM
;)
 
@KevinB Fair comment ... I was over-extrapolating.
The exception to the "good answer" rule (IMHO) is if the answer is a duplicate of an answer on the target. In such cases (especially when it's the same answerer), then feel free to delete.
 
One could argue that is then not a good answer
 
One could.
But it does happen.
 
Though I'm also musing lately about the notion of requesting users post their answer from the dupe on the target if it is not already there.
If they don't, after 2 or 3 days, post it for them as a CW
then enjoy guilt-free deletion of the duplicate
(assuming other conditions are met like 'not a good signpost')
 
10:00 PM
But, will they get Unicorn points?
 
abuse
 
@AdrianMole Getting unicorn points sounds painful and stabby.
 
The 'regular' dupe-answerers don't care for site curation or quality. They care only for green merit bubbles. And, it seems, staff have no intention of stopping that behaviour.
We don't get that much in C/C++, but there are one or two high-rep regulars who'll post an answer to anything for the +15/+25.
 
dupe answers drive up numbers
for both answerers and marketing
 
We need a Special Committee.
 
10:04 PM
we have one
 
Where? Who? What?
 
the "mod council"
 
Meh! Mods have to answer to staff.
 
depending on what this committee would have access to, they may too
 
If staff wanted stronger curation, then they would have already done something about the issues. Like more close votes, or more review quotas (for trusted users). They want hits.
... but there are many different levels of staff!
 
10:07 PM
but like, having a committee doesn't really... do anything more than us making our own informal committee in a chat room that then coordinates responses on meta
 
Only the Board of Executives have any real power.
Mods have to be very careful what they say in public, but I am aware of some discontent.
 
they could certainly create a public area where such a community committee could publicly interact with staff, but, in the end, that's just the same thing we have now, except, only a small hand-picked minority (picked by staff no less) that has a say in that space.
that's a far worse situation, IMO. blizzard is currently trying that with their community council, but they've yet to actually participate themselves, and have already banned quite vocal/active members of it over spilled milk they didn't spill, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
social outrage = banned from council, regardless of your hand in it
 
from the CEO added over 750,000 new members to the Stack Overflow community over the last quarter: that's what is important to create cash flow, isn't it?: stackoverflow.blog/2022/01/26/…
 
It's a tricky situation, and will need long-term plans and good diplomacy to resolve.
 
effectively, a public community council puts it's members in a tough spot, in that they're thrust into the spotlight and burned when they don't present ideas in favor of the most vocal outside group
no non-staff/mod should be subject to that
mods shouldn't either, but, they're kindof in a different boat? mods need to exist for a community this size
 
10:13 PM
In my world, the raw "hit rate" of a site will (soon) cease to be a factor in revenue generation. It's really up to the higher management to decide what they want S.E. to be, in the long-term future. My interaction with "middle-level" staff is (generally) very good - CMs and most Devs seem to "get" what the site is about.
 
iunno... i somewhat disagree with the last part of that
 
Hmm. I was being nice.
 
there are some that i think get it, but there's others that i feel like they don't use the thing they're working on.
which... i understand, i don't use the products my company makes, but i'm also not making decisions for the customer, ;)
 
.. but remember, we don't see the world and/or site as they do. My salary isn't controlled by SE's directors.
 
sure
we can't know where to place blame for each individual bit, unless they make a meta post outlining why it's done x way with reasoning that doesn't indicate any consideration was made users of the existing UI
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
10:18 PM
It's the chain of command.
There was a CM/Dev who broke that (maybe) and he's no longer a CM/Dev.
 
i don't agree with just blaming people at the top
people at the top change
old directer is out, new one is in, same people who did the research and proposed the changes that got approved are still there
 
We have the Dutch running the shop now, so all enquiries should be directed to our rene. xD
 
in other words I like to think there's more people with agency at the company than just the people at the top. Maybe i'm wrong, i've always worked in an environment where anyone can step up and voice their opinion so i'm more likely to think that's an option.
 
@KevinB I would agree with this. Especially the review queue revamp. Let those who made the changes help out with clearing the backlog: 40 reviews per day for two weeks, then ask them what they think of their new UI.
 
@KevinB wait a minute, research was done?
 
10:26 PM
... and make sure they do those reviews from a mobile!
 
by some definitions of research
 
@AdrianMole a spinning diorama intended to lull babies to sleep?
 
I have blister on my fingers from mobile-based reviews.
 
> github does it this way, so it must be a great solution
> This worked for reddit, maybe it'll work here
> this worked for microsoft excel, maybe it'll work here
(i'm describing actual changes that occurred here based on those products)
 
Which one was the Excel change?
 
10:31 PM
joe friend's iteration of the navbar
reddit one hasn't occured yet, i just assume it will in the next year
at least, not that i know of
github is routinely used as an inspiration for ui changes
 
There was a time when all other sites looked to SO for inspiration (and rightly so). What happened?
 
devs from the other sites were hired here
 
hehe
 
10:59 PM
i like to wait to cast a downvote until someone i don't like edits the post
 
11:41 PM
@AdrianMole I like to think that SO reached the "I'm google" problem
At some point Google stopped saying how many queries people did on the site
Since investors figured out that that number is just going to grow, but has no effect on anything
I think Facebook did the same with their new users values
 

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