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12:08 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
1:13 AM
@OlegValter well, if you bully users like "Consider quitting your job, it looks as if it doesn't suit you.", then arguably you should carry a heavy burden, and more so if you are a high-rep user, like here. The fact that the post happens to be editable should be of no particular importance in such cases.
 
@desertnaut no argument with that from me here - I thought you were asking about if disputing these flags is even possible after decline? Did you intend to ping someone else? Clearing the flags seems like consistent handling, though, provided the mod does not want to actually apply the penalty, so the outcome seems more or less fair to me
 
1:55 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
3:00 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels A question you VTCed has been brought up on meta.
 
3:15 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels This seems basic, but generally fine. I don't see how it could be more focused.
(as always with basic questions, it could be a dupe. I haven't looked.)
 
3:51 AM
 
4:11 AM
@Swordfish You'll want to write that as [tag:cv-pls] - see socvr.org/…
(also welcome, if you're new. don't recognize the name.)
 
@RyanM i believe that me starting editing before you telling me to do so is sufficient for victory ^^
 
That counts in my book :-)
 
> new. don't recognize the name.

was banned for a year and something
 
Welcome to the fun that is chat markdown. I've never gotten what you're attempting to do to work (as one message), for what it's worth.
 
@RyanM let me try again
> new. don't recognize the name.
was banned for a year and something
> (as one message)
indeed
what a crap
 
 
2 hours later…
7:11 AM
@yivi Is this really productive to close as a typo? I don't think "this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers." applies to a question with 352,000 views, 323 upvotes, and 475 upvotes on the top answer.
 
7:28 AM
@RyanM I don't particularly mind how many times the question was seen. The question is based on not running the code that exists in the question. It's a typo. I'm not saying that we need to delete it, let it remain there, but it certainly does not need any more answers.
 
@yivi Sure, let's ignore the view count, then. That's fair; titles can draw people in who don't get helped. Surely the nearly 800 upvotes between the question and answer suggest that "this [question] was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers" isn't accurate, though, right? At this point, either the question should be rewritten to ask the question that the answer answers, or it's a really, really common misunderstanding that doesn't fit that close reason.
 
It's not a common misunderstanding, at all. It's simply that users will search for "compare datetime" without checking the docs or test anything. As anything that's extremely basic and very old, it's hit again, and again, and again. Once more not arguing for deletion. But the question should be closed, IMO. I personally don't judge topicality by views or votes, since those can be influenced by other factors.
 
To be clear: "this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers." is a direct quote from the close reason you are asking us to apply to the question. It seems, at the very least, that it has helped the several hundred future readers who upvoted it.
 
is there a duplicate with a better question / answer pair? merge, even?
 
Thanks @RyanM, I'm familiar with the text. I still think the close reason applies, when read in full. The question is a typo, and in my opinion it should be closed. Yes, basic titles/concepts will draw view and votes, particularly when they are ancient. It's nothing to do with it. If the question was posted today, I'd vote to close.
 
8:30 AM
@karel verbatim repost of closed and self-deleted question; mod flagged
 
@RyanM lol I just edited that
 
@Tomerikoo I wondered if that was related, but I think my attempt was submitted before you fixed the problem differently.
 
@Tomerikoo Frankly, that's better than the answer it repeats, which gives no explanation of the actual problem and requires manually checking the exact difference between the two samples.
 
@RyanM The explanation could definetly be edited into the accepted, but the linked one is still bad and repeats it. There are two instances in the code of userId next to a : so it it still less clear (in my opinion...)
 
9:37 AM
@Tomerikoo Fair...I'm not crazy about either one, but I think they both combine to make one entire useful answer. Which is unfortunate, but having it there improves the page as a whole...
(unless someone were to edit the other answer to fix it, then I'd care less)
 
@RyanM Wouldn't you say that it would be better to edit the explanation to the accepted and remove the other one?
 
@Tomerikoo I even did say that, though I assume that you started typing that before I did :-)
but yes, totally agreed.
 
Yes haha you answered while I was pressing Enter...
 
Darned asynchronous communication... :-)
 
@RyanM Might be a bit "unfair", but I think now it is safe to remove that answer...
 
9:42 AM
Yep, agreed.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:48 AM
@desertnaut I don't think so. Best doesn't mean "fight it out which of the two is marginally better", but "feel free to suggest any alternatives better (in any metric) than mine".
or in this case, there is an objective metric
 
 
1 hour later…
11:58 AM
Morning
 
o/
 
1:06 PM
Does this question need debugging details (NATO)?
 
@DavidBuck mongodb and habitrpg are both programming tools
 
1:23 PM
@JeanneDark will currently roomba in 0 days according to my forecaster
 
@TylerH The answer was downvoted after my del-pls request in here
 
1:35 PM
@TylerH "Today will be cloudy with a slight chance of roomba"
3
 
is this NAA?
 
I'd say that's a comment
 
Eh, was going to say it's borderline. But the border patrol came in.
That's OK, I don't disagree.
 
@TylerH "HabitRPG is an open source habit building program which treats your life like a Role Playing Game. Level up as you succeed, lose HP as you fail, earn money to buy weapons and armor." How is that a development tool? Mongodb isn't a development tool either, but Mongo is incidental to the HabitRPG install.
 
1:57 PM
@DavidBuck Sorry, I misread that blurb as a code/programing building tool. However, that aside MongoDB is absolutely a tool used by programmers. It's a very popular database tech
The Q is about an issue related to the installation of mongodb, QED, it's on-topic per the help center's 'software tools commonly used by programmers' bit
 
@DavidBuck Doesn't look like a software installation more of a dev setup to me for habitrpg.
 
3:17 PM
Is this NAA? Still useless though. Accepted answer suggests it...
 
I wouldn't flag that as NAA.
 
What does the first line even mean? AM I missing something?
 
What's missing is a downvote and three delete votes.
... I partly remedied that! :)
 
I don't understand that either. But "it's a static library format" is an answer to the question. Maybe a del-pls request in here, but I would expect an NAA flag to be declined.
 
3:22 PM
@SurajRao I custom flagged it for repeating an older answer.
Well, there's that option as well. I've retracted the flag.
 
Simples!
 
3:57 PM
 
4:44 PM
@miken32 There seem to be some good answers to that question. Are they worth preserving?
 
@cigien Android/Java isn't my area, but the answers looked to be pretty much the same as those in the dupe target.
 
Ok. I was going off the upvotes myself. Thanks.
 
4:58 PM
@tink Has bounty :(
15 hours more
 
Thanks @Braiam ... I'm surprised that it sent the CV-PLS even though my CV was rejected
 
@Zoe Whoopie!
 
@Machavity - could you please cull this invalid CV-PLS
 
5:01 PM
Thanks
:)
 
@Zoe The link to the chatroom goes to the 2020 chat room. Is it the same one this year, and just hasn't been opened yet?
 
@Zoe Was the timing of this MSE post merely coincidence? Maybe good reading for any potential candidates?
 
Zoe
@cigien I have a bot set up on Discord that has been pinging elections/13 every 6 hours for a while. I'm assuming staff have scheduled it, but haven't gotten around to setting up everything around it yet
 
@Zoe Ah, I see. Thanks.
 
Zoe
5:06 PM
@AdrianMole Probably, considering there's a number of elections around the network
@cigien That's also observable through the lack of both the chat, as you point out, but also the lack of an announcement on meta, as well as the lack of a question gathering post. It's still in the super early phase
 
@Zoe Yeah, that makes sense. I don't really know how any of that works. I kind of assumed that nothing would be mentioned anywhere until everything was set up. I'm not sure why I assumed that :p
 
5:21 PM
@AdrianMole There's a dozen elections in the pipe right now (not counting SO). Probably 50ish this year so far. So it wasn't timed around our election
 
6:09 PM
@Zoe I wondered how long it'd take.
 
Zoe
well, the bot detected it at 2AM (UTC+2)
 
@AdrianMole Philippe wasn't specifically aware of the upcoming election that I know of, so likely not.
 
Zoe
Surprised I didn't get ninja'd :p
 
Nobody seems to have actually read my question ... "Was ... coincidence." The negative answers should surely be positives! ;-P
 
6:29 PM
 
7:19 PM
@Catija Wait, CM's have direct communication with a C level again?
 
@vestland Per room rules, close vote requests should be for questions active within the past 6 months.
 
@Braiam Philippe is a VP.
 
@NathanOliver can you remove this request for CV on an inactive question? chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/53072624#53072624
 
@Braiam Technically mods do as well. Philippe has made himself available to us
 
7:30 PM
@vestland also, that one will be deleted by the Roomba in 3 days. It hardly seems worth closing even if it were compliant with room rules.
 
@miken32 done
 
7:53 PM
@Catija I meant with the confidence that you say that he wasn't aware of elections.
 
@miken32 @RyanM Thank you both for feedback and info.
 
@Zoe Is it because you want to nominate yourself?
 
8:10 PM
SOCVR moderator nominations: who do we nominate for elections?
 
@Dharman Are you running again?
(I'm strongly considering running)
 
I nominate Machavity and Makyen!
Can we anonymously enumerate nomination anomalies.
... Dharman and Zoe for the Dream Team ... Dharman deletes all the posts and Zoe deletes all the users.
 
For just deleting users you need 20 mods.
 
... and we can borrow rene from Stack Apps.
 
@RyanM If you have the time and willingness, sure. I will think about it, but there might be much better candidates this year than me.
 
8:18 PM
name one who is not a SOCVR regular.
 
🚽
 
@rene That should be in the list of requirements.
... might as well be, judging from the last few election results.
 
@KevinB that is a good option.
@AdrianMole as a minimum we could prepare a question for the mod questionaire to ask for their view on chat-driven moderation.
 
@RyanM oh I just noticed the editor...could've pinged them myself, whoops...
 
8:34 PM
how does one with 20k rep propose an edit?
 
@KevinB My understanding is that since you can edit directly, you're offered an "Improve edit" option on the review (example review link from my follow-up edit to address the above issues)
 
also... why isn't there a link to go directly to the edit? or am i blind
 
@KevinB Likely proposed just before he hit the 20k level. I've seen a number of Wiki edits proposed by the Great Glorfindel.
 
@KevinB blame 19,971 rep being rounded to 20K in the UI
 
@KevinB you have edit privileges with +3k, suggesting an edit maybe not the best idea, but you could do it through a comment on the post?
 
8:37 PM
@OlegValter ... indeed, just noticed that.
 
Oh, i ddin't consider wiki edits at all
rounded because 19k vs 20k doesn't matter when assuming a 3k privilege
 
Oh I misunderstood the question, don't mind me.
 
and that misunderstanding explains why i didn't see a relevant link
 
3K privilege? Editing is 2K+
 
3k, 2k, same difference
 
8:39 PM
... or 20k for tag wikis.
 
yup
 
Yup
 
which is, frankly, bonkers - always been
 
But only 5k to approve a proposal made by a 19.9k user. ;)
 
or reject for that matter :)
 
8:41 PM
It's also bonkers that you need 20k to delete-vote answers, unless they've been (often incorrectly) flagged first, in which case you only need 2k.
 
@AdrianMole and no review filter to get all the Tag wikis...
 
That's almost certainly by design.
 
@RyanM What is that signature doing there?
 
@AdrianMole yeah, a little odd
 
@AdrianMole ? :)
 
8:43 PM
but then if we require people to have more rep than the person submitting the edit... the pool of available reviewers grows quite small
someone at 19k could wait weeks for a suggested edit to get reviewed
because of things like that, I'm super excited to see progress on the "use experience instead of rep" front that seems to be taking shape
3
 
@Dharman An excellent question. I only noticed it after posting that message when I was editing in the link I proposed, and removed it in my suggested edit.
 
not to mention that I'd really not assume that the higher the rep the better the quality - I rejected so many blatant copy-pasta from high-rep contributors (in tag wikis and excerpts) that I lost count by now...
 
someone with a thousand approved suggested edits or the taxonomist badge (for example) should probably be treated a bit differently than someone who is making their first 1 to 10 suggested edits
It'd be absolutely amazeballs if they could use (to an extent, because site cultures differ) experience on sites as a metric across the network
 
Taxonomists can get stuffed.
 
i personally never had the chance to suggest an edit
 
8:46 PM
you know, like your MSE rep should be your total network rep from all other sites, etc.
They already do it for the association bonus, which has pretty huge implications. A 101 rep user can do a LOT compared to a 1 rep user
 
@KevinB there's a whole world of SE sites out there where you can suggest edits ;-)
 
@RyanM Hell would freeze over before Kevin B would allow himself to be put in the system like that :-P
 
yeah but none of those sites are interesting to me
 
Is there not a ToiletStyles.SE?
 
the closest is gaming related sites, but i feel in 100% of cases, in the gaming world, there's a better place to get info than the SE network
 
8:48 PM
@KevinB not even MSE, where you have 23 posts and are just shy of editing privileges? :-p
 
@KevinB I actually find that's the opposite for gaming.SE
More for newer games
 
@KevinB RPG.SE is suuuper useful, I've actually referred to it during D&D games
 
Even in cases where the information is probably out there, I know it's gonna be in a far superior format on SE than on some blog article
 
i found the opposite, more often than not
 
@RyanM Oh yeah, I have asked questions about D&D campaign stuff myself and relied heavily on stuff from there as well
 
8:49 PM
or people just copying content
:shrug:
 
@KevinB By our powers combined, we are Captain null result
 
@TylerH I wish people would appreciate this fact when voting on basic questions...sure, there are answers out there on blogs or buried in docs, but I'll take the SE format over those in a heartbeat any day.
 
^
 
it's not the format i have an issue with
 
same thing for recipe sites actually. I should probably try cooking.se for the next time I need to look up a recipe for some dish
 
8:50 PM
it's that the answers are often coming from people who don't actually know what they're talking about.
 
The meme about cooking / recipe sites is so true. Scroll through someone's entire life story before you get to the damn recipe
@KevinB Yeah, YMMV there, wildly. It's probably worse for bigger/more popular games
 
@KevinB I don't think the internet as a whole is better...at least SE allows for content rating via votes and comments.
 
i'm more comparing it to, say, a wiki built by the devs or active testers, etc
 
@TylerH recipes on seasoned advice are off-topic
 
I myself have been guilty of posting an answer on gaming.se (I think that was the site) of a game I played but about a thing I hadn't personally experienced, based on several reputable sources
@Vickel Seriously? There's like... nothing else to cooking, though
so what is it, a big empty site?
 
8:51 PM
@TylerH Heck, I've done this on SO...and it's my 4th-highest-voted answer.
 
@KevinB Oh yeah, that's always my first go to
 
generally with games (PC games, since those are the ones i'm interested in) the answers are... known. they're specific, direct values that often don't even need any theorycrafting
 
@TylerH check it out, it's quite cool
 
but if no wiki is forthcoming, or there is one but it doesn't have info on quests/achievements (which is many of them), you need a Q&A site
 
where is X? it's at Y.
 
8:53 PM
Especially since these days it seems like all game wikis are 100% populated by fans/players
I miss the days when games came with printed pamphlets detailing everything about the game. All the stuff, how to play, etc.
 
definitely true of some games
new world for example i haven't found a single trustworthy source of info for it
 
Heck, I think the Star Citizen wiki is far more complete than the game
naturally it's 100% fan populated
 
even fans rarely know the actual answers, because it hasn't released yet
things are still too in flux
 
I keep forgetting about that
comes out next Monday right
 
something like that
 
ima just play it causally
 
Will you need an Amazon account to play
or can you use a separate account
 
i don't think so
honestly don't remember logging in when i did the beta
made a character and was in
steam?
yeah, i used steam, so that's where my acct was based
if you want twitch drops you'd probably have to link it
i dispise twitch drops, because it only ever goes to the most popular streamers, and i prefer a more... low viewer stream
 
I dunno what a twitch drop is
some loot RNG thing?
 
effectively, if you watch a given stream for x amount of time, you get in-game stuff
it's another one of those systems where it just further supports the already supported, etc
 
9:05 PM
Ah
 
Isn't it just statistical probability. The more viewers you have the more likely one of your viewers win?
 
That's right, Amazon owns Twitch now
 
well, no, twitch drops are applied to specific streams, not all
only the streamers they partner with get it
just like only streamers who are partnered get to control their quality setting
 
Ah
ain't monetization grand
 
Zoe
9:42 PM
@Dharman Been considering it, but tracking it was unrelated. Was mainly tracking it because I wanted to know when we'd get additional mods - the flag backlog has been annoying me for a while :')
 
There's no backlog
at least not in the past few months
 
Should I be excited or scared that my employer is telling me that he might be converting me into a .net dev next year? (I've only ever been a php dev).
 
@mickmackusa Tell them you know .com and .au already.
 
Oh, is all caps a touchy subject? .NET then.
 
It was a joke...
 
9:58 PM
IMO be excited, getting paid to learn a popular language is great
 
true
 
better'n being paid to learn coldfusion
 
Zoe
@Dharman Doesn't feel like it. I've had mod flags that take upwards of a month to get handled several times in the past 6 months
 
@Braiam I'm kinda confused. It sounds like you're being sarcastic but I'm not sure... regardless, elections are between CMs and Mods. When they ask for an election, we schedule one. We have a weekly schedule for everyone (including Philippe) to see but it's part of a weekly doc, so he would be aware of it on Thursday, not upon scheduling. We don't get the entire team's buy-in before scheduling elections. Zoe's script found the election immediately after it was scheduled.
There's no particular reason for Philippe to be aware of an election in advance.
 
@KevinB oddly, because of the surge in demand for devs and budget limitations, we just had to hire a guy whose most recent dev work was on coldfusion. :^0
 
10:02 PM
: /
 
@Catija I'm never sarcastic, except when I smile :)
My comment was about my surprise that you were aware of what a VP knows/doesn't know.
 
Ah. Philippe pings me about stuff daily and he's in our weekly Thursday call and other discussions - he's very involved.
More than Jay was when he was our VP - though I think Jay was more involved earlier than by the time I was hired.
 
@mickmackusa I was considering answering it. I don't think it's that bad.
 
Zoe
10:22 PM
@Catija Like, immediately immediately?
That's some god-tier timing considering it only checks every 6 hours :p
 
Nah. I scheduled it around this time yesterday.
~26 hours ago
 
But 6-8 is the Planck Time for SE.
 
Zoe
Eh, still close enough :p
 
@Dharman it can be answered by referencing multiple dupe targets, this is why I think it needs more focus.
 
That's not how duplicate closure works
 
10:36 PM
@Dharman Which is exactly why I am not voting to close it with multiple duplicates.
Think about the flow on effect otherwise... If you don't want to have your questions closed, then just ask a question that requires multiple duplicates.
 
That's kind of the point...
I know it might seem hard to understand but we should ask questions in a way that they can't be closed with existing duplicates.
 
1. How can I create a result set with a range of dates? 2. How can I join a pricing table to the date range result set? 3. How can I filter that result set based on user input that narrows the date range?
 
A question that should be asked as "needs focus" is a one that asks for multiple things at the same time, not one that has multiple solutions.
@mickmackusa 1. They already have that done. 2. They aren't really asking for that, but that could be one of the solutions 3. This should be part of the answer
 
We already have pages that demonstrate these techniques. Pick what you need to resolve the page by referencing pre-existing SO content.
 
We aren't looking for ways to close questions, we are looking for ways to salvage them from closure. Voting to close them is the last measure we should use
 
10:42 PM
Considering the fact that SO is amazingly over-bloated with redundant content, I think it should be our first point of call to close closable questions. Ideally by pointing researchers/askers to pre-existing content. If a question is asking for multiple techniques, they need to break down their challenge into separate questions
 
This looks close to what they need stackoverflow.com/questions/13227912/…
 
@Dharman Certainly related. I also found a Gordon answer that was advising a calendar table (I just didn't have enough characters to include it in my verbose comment under the question).
 
11:22 PM
 
@Dharman I'm with mick on this one. If you have multiple canonical questions, that's the textbook definition of too broad.
You can ask several standalone questions about the topic, so any answer that completely answers the question has to include all answers to the other questions. That's a mess.
 
11:44 PM
@cigien ^^^I think this qualifies as spam, even after your edit... Here are some more details about our startup etc
 
It seems like a legitimate question to me. The last sentence mentioning the startup should be removed I think.
 
well then the etc... like On my main website plus link...
 
I've edited out the mention of the startup. I don't get the feeling the question is intended as spam. I could be wrong, of course.
 
Now the question: is advice on how to write code to commit payments fraud a practical programming problem?
@cigien the website link could go too, probably.
 
@RyanM that ^, too
 
11:49 PM
@RyanM I'm not sure. They're asking for improvements to the website, right?
Feel free to edit it out if you think it should go.
 
It. Just. Needs. To. Go.
It adds absolutely no value to this site and I agree that it is likely spam
 
It should be deleted, no doubt about that. I'm just not sure red flags are the appropriate tool here.
 
Close and delete - that's what we do in here.
 
... well and share anecdotes about our experiences with role-playing games.
All out of CVs?
 
11:54 PM
@AdrianMole yuuuup
 
OK, let Phase II commence...
 
been out all day, in fact :-p
 
Didn't take too long, huh?
 
I'm also out of delete votes, but I don't have 20k anyway :-)
 

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