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12:26 AM
 
12:55 AM
@AdrianMole conkers bad fur day?
 
@Braiam Conker's Bad Code Day "What do you mean arrays start with 1?"
 
User profiles no longer show the last time a user logged in?
(or am I maybe just getting A/B tested?)
 
@Machavity :slowclap:
 
> Last seen 5 mins ago
Looks different, tho. It's at the top instead of the side
 
/me looks
weird — for me on stackoverflow.com/users/441757/sideshowbarker?tab=profile there is no “Last seen” anywhere
 
1:06 AM
 
I wonder if it's a mod thing. You're right about it being missing elsewhere
 
Nothing announced on Meta about that change?
It seems to have changed literally today — since yesterday
 
@sideshowbarker There is (link) but it's not entirely clear what changed
 
/me looks
hmm yeah
 
1:08 AM
Ah, the top answer mentions it being gone. So it is a mod thing
 
ah boo, that was useful.
 
Could be caching too. I still see the profile views that he says were removed
 
OK
well per the top answer to that Meta post, I see the last-seen info is available at, e.g., stackexchange.com/users/197590/sideshowbarker?tab=accounts
 
/me looks
yeah I definitely don’t get that now in my own view of SO profiles
 
1:15 AM
Yeah, in a private window I only see that left column
 
OK
well anyway as long as shows up in the Network profile (those with less precision), it seems pretty safe to assume it’ll stay there, at least — since no redesign of those Network profile pages has ever been done in a very long time
 
FWIW there's not a lot of folks happy about it. I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of rework on it
 
@Machavity You mean the profile page, right, and not the network account page?
 
@Machavity Yeah, from the votes on that Meta post, seems like the reaction to the changes overall has net negative by a big margin, and growing
 
For some reason they appear to think "responsive (design)" === "narrower width", instead of "responsive design" === "how things are displayed on the page adapts to the user's screen/window size, aspect ratio (width and height), and pixel density, such that the content is displayed well regardless of what those properties are, within the designed-for variance."
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1:28 AM
@Makyen As an Android developer who's always had to implement for a wide variety of widths and never once did it by adding whitespace on the sides, I cannot +1 this enough.
 
@cigien Yes. That's not from a mod page
 
@Machavity Ok, I wasn't sure what you were referring to since the previous chat message was about the network page.
 
2:03 AM
Please delete my request as the OP has provided an MRE
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
 
3 hours later…
5:19 AM
Sometimes I wish I could mjölnir posts closed for non-dupe reasons. It seems some users are quick on the trigger of close votes but they don't realise we actually have dupe targets. Re-opening just to close as dupe is probably too much hassle, I just end up commenting with a link to the dupe.
 
6:18 AM
Hi, is there any meta post regarding profile page changes?
 
Thank you
 
 
8:28 AM
gagh SE makes their HTML/CSS soooo much harder to work with than what it would be with semantic class names.
 
8:42 AM
@Makyen You would expect the Public platform team would have the same concern. I wonder if their "problems" are solved by some clever Dev tooling that makes these semantic class names not needed for them.
 
8:59 AM
@rene Maybe. I suspect that what they are doing is everything is in the HTML generation. The concept of having styles separately in CSS is just tossed out for SE sites. All, or nearly all, of the styles are applied directly on the HTML as it's generated using CSS classes which are shortcuts for, in most cases, a single CSS property. Effectively, this is very similar to just using style strings to apply the properties.
The only real thing they are doing with CSS classes is using them as a compression methodology (and thus also obfuscation) rather than write out the whole property and value in the style. For example, the class d-flex is entirely display: flex !important; and mr24 is margin-right: 24px !important;.
It sort-of makes sense if your base concept for constructing pages is a bunch of functions which generate the HTML with exactly the same styling, with absolutely no variance or possibility of adapting the styling based on where that HTML is used.
 
9:33 AM
may actually just be spam already
 
yeaaaaah I'm just going ahead and flagging and reporting to Smokey
oh hey, there's more
 
Sometimes I get the feeling that SE only fixes what doesn't need fixing.
11
 
9:57 AM
Also amazed that stayed up for 9 months. Leave it to another spammer to help find spam by spamming different spam onto someone else's spam.
 
@RyanM Maybe it's like a honey pot. It's left there so all spammers converge and are handled all at once.
 
10:32 AM
what a great question title...
 
@JohnDvorak Wat
 
10:47 AM
What about this question? OP posted pictures of code, then added a self-answer with the code. Doesn't look like an MCVE. They later added an actual answer to their own question. Not sure it's worth preserving.
 
@JeanneDark I have flagged as needs more debugging details, its about question not the answers, also this one is NAA for sure
 
@Ruli Thanks! The answer you link to was what made me aware of the question.
 
11:04 AM
 
11:52 AM
Can anyone see a reason why this question is protected? Posted today; viewed 30 times; +2/-1 votes and 2 close votes. What's "highly active" about it?
... ah, I think I see: auto-protected because of two deleted, low-quality answers by low rep. users. Anyway, protection didn't stop me from casting the third CV!
 
@JeanneDark off-topic indeed
 
@rene One of the things which the lack of semantic CSS does is makes it very hard to to be responsive, because in order to be responsive you need to be able to use @media queries to apply different property values based on the size of the viewport. Without semantic CSS, you have to very carefully construct a selector, based on the properties applied within that HTML structure which will match the specific thing you're trying to target, and nothing else. That's definitely non-trivial.
 
If there only was a site where you could ask for a review of your CSS semantic-(n|m)ess ...
 
sigh, yeah.
 
12:52 PM
@AdrianMole You've basically described the rule for auto-protection. "Highly active" basically means "it got multiple deleted answers from low-rep users."
 
Does not disclose affiliation, and the advertised web tool is free indeed but the page is full of ads, looks spammy to me: stackoverflow.com/a/68681285/2227743
 
I'm sure Meta has a slightly more detailed explanation than that, but that's the gist :-p
 
@RyanM Yeah. I was just a bit surprised to see the "protected" banner on such a new (and low quality) questio n.
 
 
@JeanneDark it's always surprising me when pepople with several thousand reputation ask extremely low quality questions ..
 
It's good if it's still surprising
 
1:50 PM
oh god oh god oh god
(yes I've just discovered the new profile page)
 
@TylerH Welcome to 12 hours ago. We have a place for your vomit
 
(note: not the vomitorium)
 
It's +18/-111 so... close enough
 
18 upvotes from spammers and voting fraudsters? ;)
 
@JeanneDark Or people that just see that is a good thing for reasons we don't understand.
 
2:02 PM
vomit is about right
I mean this is bad
2
 
@JohnDvorak However, we can use the vomitorium to get there.
 
@Braiam could be people who go by any communication is better than no communication
 
Gonna spend all friggin day fixing this profile page
 
@TylerH It's unfortunate that I like some of the changes and some of the intent. But I really dislike the end result.
 
2:21 PM
I still don't understand what it means to make a page responsive, everyone has disparaged examples of responsive pages
 
@Braiam Technically, it means it show work on all displays easily. In practice, it seems like a buzzword.
 
It means the cheese is moved while you only adjusted your window-size.
 
@Braiam This is an example of responsive design s3.amazonaws.com/blog.invisionapp.com/uploads/2018/02/…
Instead of a mobile site, you have one site which shows a different layout to different devices based on their screen size
since 2013 or so the best practice has been "mobile first" with "progressive enhancement"
meaning you design your site for smartphone browsers first, and that also forces you to put just the most important content on the page, with other stuff either not available or behind things like hamburger menus
as the viewport gets larger, you set breakpoints via @media queries to set different layout styles, and at bigger viewport sizes, you can add more stuff that's not critically important
menu items get dedicated screen space rather than being put in a dropdown menu, for example. Images get shown inline rather than as links or thumbnails, etc.
It does not entail making (probably unilateral) editorial decisions about certain content being "toxic", or wrecking the well-working existing layout for the largest viewports, like what happened here today
8
 
Interesting, I usually design for my clients and since my clients always use desktops/laptops
 
The biggest wtf is probably the move away from the--basically sacred--3 column layout
especially considering the change doesn't even take advantage of the extra space on the right
it just left a big hole there
OK, getting there... i.stack.imgur.com/MEPRL.png
Annoyingly I'm gonna have to use JS though for that 3rd column
 
3:00 PM
@TylerH I hate that. I look at my profile now and it just seems like it's incomplete. Like I'm looking at a "this is what we have so far" quick review.
 
@VLAZ yeap
it's the issue as what I pointed out to them with the new review queue item design
except now it's more glaring because that extra space is just blank instead of having unnecessary content in it
 
3:16 PM
Maybe we can fill the space with 🙏 emoji?
 
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
@VLAZ don't do it! They might think you want the "thank you" feature back
 
lol
 
sta
3:40 PM
@sta Question edited with details @TylerH please bin
 
@sta binned per your request
 
3:58 PM
@TylerH looks like historical lock would work better than plain closure in this case (at 10 years age and 85K views it technically qualifies I think). At first I was going to vote close because I agree with your assessment but closer look at comments and prior close-reopen history made me feel that it will be eventually reopened again if not locked
 
@gnat I don't think the content is worth keeping, otherwise I would agree
it's not about programming at all
oh wait, you were talking about a different question
I flagged it for mods just now to consider a historical lock
still think it should be closed, regardless
@VLAX This irks me too; if this layout is "transitional" then why implement it into production at all? Just keep working on it on your internal build!
 
4:23 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
5:50 PM
@Machavity I flagged one of the recent vandalising edits for mod attention, would appreciate if you have a look. The sooner this stops the better - stackoverflow.com/q/67042505
 
@gnat It's handled
 
@Machavity ignore my mod flag on that Q then :-)
 
6:41 PM
Anyone here who has "a lot of text" (read: more than the avatar box is high) in their profile, that would like to be an example in a screen shot at Stack Apps? :)
 
@Scratte abuse my profile :)
 
@Vickel I'll give you a before and after first. So you have time to change your mind :)
 
@TylerH It looks like we may have duplicated quite a bit of effort, as I'd been working on this yesterday and gotten a large portion of it done. I'm still working on small viewports (i.e. < 550px, or so). So far, I've only needed a slight bit of JS in order to tighten-up the inter-row gaps between the first and second row in each column. OTHO, I still need to look at what portions of my overall SE-responsiveness changes I'm actually making use of with the changes I made.
Mine could still use some work wrt. very wide viewports too, as I'm mostly just stretching the center/left column.
 
@Scratte cool :)
@Makyen I've been limiting very wide view ports to something two eyes can capture, without twisting the eyes or the head too much...
 
It looks like @Scratte's been working on it too, I assume from the request for a test subject. :; Given the issue, it's not surprising to see multiple people working on it.
 
6:52 PM
This "Member since ..." not being available is annoying. I would like to see it to assess whether this should get an NAA flag or a spam flag.
 
@Makyen you always do things the right way the first time around so I'm sure yours is cleaner so far :-p
Here's a preview of my styles so far; not much, and some small overlap with other functionality too (fixing the background colors of the gold/silver/bronze badge icons for dark mode) i.stack.imgur.com/aWlZ7.png
It's half functional, half proof-of-concept
 
@AdrianMole Member since 10/20/2015, 7:53:17 PM. ;)
 
@Makyen That is correct. I did not use the API to get the info back. But I reworked the page to be a lot less wasteful
 
@Makyen Yet again we will have to rely on a few extra !important's because they're unceremoniously tossed around in the stacks.css styles
 
I botched the screen shot since I didn't turn my own CSS off, but this is what @Vickel looks like on my end now. I scrape the activity page to get the first and last activity. And added current UTC time for easy comparison.
 
6:58 PM
In case it's useful, here's a screenshot from the latest blog post about the old layout when it was announced: i.stack.imgur.com/FM1Pu.png for comparison
 
@TylerH Thanks. I'm not sure I'd call it cleaner. The lack of semantic CSS makes targeting specific things a royal pain in the rear. I've got strings of selectors a mile long, and still had to resort to JS to mark the page with a class as the user's profile page in order to not interfere with other pages.
 
@Scratte looks very nice to me, specially the activity part
 
@TylerH That's how my tabs look now :D
 
@TylerH A few!?!?!?! It's basically on everything. And nearly every <div> is a .d-flex.
 
Nono.. it's a d-flex being !important :D Because.. reasons!
@Vickel Thank you :) I'll do another one with my own personal CSS off, so people don't get confused :)
 
7:02 PM
@Scratte I like the additional data.
 
Am I going to not be able to find this again? :P I gather there's something that I missed, that's not relevant to mortal's privileges?
 
@Scratte Please ignore my last few messages. After double-checking, I don't think there's anything that's mod-only in them, but I moved them to be on the safe side.
 
7:21 PM
@AdrianMole Look aside, I think this is the biggest loss of functionality. I don't really care enough about the "last visited" but "member since" is quite important, IMO. Especially because it can be used for metric when considering abuse.
2
 
Now.. I'm scared to mention any site feature here.
 
@Scratte I'm sorry that's the result. The comments I removed were about a very limited subset of functionality. If you just ignore everything you remember about what I said, or at least not continue discussing those specific things, then there is no issue.
 
Technically, a post is abusive respectively who post it
 
7:42 PM
@Braiam More of "abuse of the system". For example, it can help knowing if two accounts are made at the same time.
 
@Makyen Yeah, I was trying to be generous...
@VLAZ Last visited is also useful for determining whether it is worth answering, commenting, bountying, etc.
"is this user going to respond/see my content?"
 
@TylerH Meh, I'm used to my content falling on deaf ears (figuratively). I don't really expect people to respond any more.
There was one question that was posted and ended with "Ask for any details, if you need them". I immediately commented to ask for debugging details because I thought OP would be quick to respond, so I held off the CV.
Several hours later, there was no response and I CV'd. To my knowledge, the OP still hasn't added the relevant debugging details.
Although I suspect the post has been eaten by the Roomba already.
 
:-) I can commiserate with people who have lives, for sure
You know, you wanna go have fun on the weekend and not worry about that programming problem
 
@TylerH I just came back after being at an all you can eat sushi restaurant :D
 
gross, you can keep your sushi :-P
 
8:39 PM
A gold tag in landing in 3, 2, 1...
 
9:14 PM
 
0
Q: Most askers [ignore] the wiki for this tag

kaya3The ignore tag has the following wiki: Many source control systems have an "ignore"-file mechanism that specifies files that should not be committed or tracked in version control. So the tag is supposed to be used similarly to the gitignore tag, but for questions which aren't specific to git. B...

 
9:36 PM
@Vickel Here the Before and After. You can still change your mind :)
 
10:32 PM
@Dharman: going on a "best programming language" binge, I see
 
Yeah, I just noticed I still haven't finished that list.
 
There's always work to be done
 
10:57 PM
 
I flagged this, but now I see this was added by MSFT guy. Is this actually an answer?
 
Just because they're MSFT, doesn't means they know how S.O. works. (I've seen some borderline NAA posts from those team members.)
... on that one, ... not sure.
 
I mean, their other answers follow a pattern of not knowing how SO works
 
11:26 PM
@AdrianMole And don't forget the organized spam from Microsoft.
 
11:50 PM
grrr, I am investigating sock-puppetry and my investigation is hindered because I can't see the date the account was created
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