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4:04 AM
One of my questions got closed as a dupe. Should I scream and yell and rant on Meta about how horrible SO moderation is?
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica 🤷‍♂
 
4:27 AM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica you haven't specified which question, but there's a fair chance that the dupe target should be closed by another page.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica of course! clearly the person who closed it as a dupe has no understanding of what the question is about!
 
^ lol
 
:) in case it wasn't obvious
 
On a different topic, I feel compelled to post on meta and get downvoted to oblivion too. I couldn't get an ultra-high rep user to be more generous with their FGITW post from over a decade ago. stackoverflow.com/a/1346352/2943403 You will see that the answer was posted 1 minute after the question was asked. The next answer (which offers more than a snippet) got the short end of the stick just 1 minute later! This is a page with LOADS of dupes which can be safely discarded.
 
5:33 AM
@tripleee should this remain closed? and/or deleted? stackoverflow.com/q/17795546/2943403
 
6:11 AM
@mickmackusa I voted to delete
 
@tripleee Can you perhaps explain to me why it is appropriately closed?
It's asking for how to write code/command which does something.
 
I guess I should ask, instead, why shouldn't the page be reopened?
I guess this is just one of the close reasons that I seldom use because I seldom have any use for it in the pool.
 
@mickmackusa I would absolutely classify this as general computing; rudimentary use of a CLI is not programming
 
okay -- I guess it boils down to my inexperience with that close reason. @tripleee It does appear to be a well-loved page though. meh. no bother.
 
6:29 AM
it's not uncommon for general computing questions to be popular in google, but it's too old to migrate to Unix&Linux or SU
and they probably have popular duplicates already
 
6:45 AM
@mickmackusa My opinion is that it is appropriately closed as general computing, but should not be deleted. It's got 670,710 views and a considerable score for both the question and answer. While it's clearly and obviously off-topic, it's also been useful to people. The questions I'd ask include: "Why should it be deleted?" "Is it causing harm in some way?" "Is it clearly not useful to people?" "Would peoples' experience be better if it was deleted?"
 
@Makyen I was kinda expecting someone to say, that there was an earlier duplicate that was equally or more clear and reopening it to re-close it as a duplicate was not wanted. Seems a weird page to delete. I did not vote to delete.
 
7:22 AM
clearly a recommendation question
 
8:23 AM
@JeanneDark FWIW that'll Roomba in 3 days
 
@RyanM Why? It's not closed
Doesn't it then take longer (like a year or so)?
 
If the question is more than 30 days old, and ... has −1 or lower score, has no answers, is not locked (via stackoverflow.com/help/roomba)
 
Ok, thanks
 
The Roomba Forecaster userscript is useful for quickly checking, though I think I vaguely recall you don't use userscripts
 
8:29 AM
Yes, I don't. I confused it with RemoveAbandonedQuestions (no negative score) which takes longer.
@rene Can you please bin this request. It can just Roomba. I doubt (hope) it won't receive many upvotes in its few remaining days.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (on request)
 
Thanks
 
yw
 
9:07 AM
why does SO say that I have earned access to XY queue when I have it already for ages?
 
@JeanneDark that's rude, I want to know how it works!
 
You just click "Looks ok" or "No action needed" until you receive another gold badge.
 
9:28 AM
@JeanneDark thanks, "Looks ok"
 
9:41 AM
@JohnDvorak 59 seconds
 
10:01 AM
 
10:28 AM
 
10:44 AM
@bad_coder @Makyen please move to SOCVR Request Graveyard
 
11:29 AM
 
11:58 AM
Morning
 
12:31 PM
@bad_coder Handled (cc @Makyen)
 
@Machavity pls dump this request of mine: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/52036007#52036007
 
@desertnaut Notice of intent sent
 
@tripleee heads-up meta discussion about a closed post.
@desertnaut cc ^^ @DavidBuck
 
1:36 PM
@bad_coder thanks; if the Meta effect leads to such questions being re-opened, I rest my case... :( cc @DavidBuck @tripleee @DalijaPrasnikar
 
It didn't look off-topic
 
@Dharman wasn't closed as off-topic; was closed as needs focus/details
amyway, the thing is on Meta now, so out of our hands here
 
I am not an expert but looks reasonably scoped and clear
 
I'll abide and remind to not discuss a meta featured post, although the initial "needs community edit" is noteworthy for predating the more recent "Triage queue affair".
 
1:57 PM
 
@bad_coder It's OK to discuss Meta posts in here. It's not OK to ask the room to try and override Meta with an action request (i.e CV, reopen, etc)
3
 
@Dharman That would be great, in your perspective :-P But it would never happen because that's an inordinate amount of power for a normal user. Unilateral closure of questions I could see happening, and improvements to comment deletion based on heuristic improvements should occur as well IMO, but deleting/suspending users and locking posts should never be something doable by non-moderators.
@mickmackusa 10k users, and especially 20k users, are already such 'super' users... giving unelected users the power to delete content is super powerful already
 
@TylerH I can't argue that.
 
but I want more power
 
@desertnaut It is not exactly stellar question, but it is clear enough and it does have helpful answer for anyone trying to do the same. I could not find any duplicates, and it was on the way to be deleted, leaving no margin for improvement. So I voted to reopen.
 
2:04 PM
@mickmackusa though I do wish they had more of those votes
the cap of daily close votes and delete votes is a real thorn in our sides
 
This is link-only, isn't it? And the question's not asking for links. Just curious if and what I'm missing considering it receives upvotes.
 
@JeanneDark It's NAA to me. They should at least give a brief summary. You could comment to that affect and give them a chance to fix it.
 
Thanks
 
@Dharman I just want gold badgers to not be limited to duplicates only.
It would remove the incentive to close everything as duplicate just because it's faster.
 
I don't know if that's actually an issue
I haven't ever seen it happen
 
2:19 PM
@DalijaPrasnikar copy that, thanks
 
My opinion, don't have enough SME to know if the question "lacked focus". The phrasing made it seem as such, but it's one of those cases where the answer seems to focus the question enough. Real problem (imo) the downvotes, both on the question and the meta post. I certainly wouldn't have downvoted the question on any technical reason, and the meta post also seemed legit.
 
@TylerH regex tag would love to disagree :)
 
@Braiam I have seen cases where people close as dupes that are incorrect but typically the closer genuinely feels they are dupes.
If someone is regularly abusing that power and you notice it then you should flag for mod attention
 
-7-19=-26 on 2 posts in under 24 hours...That just seems unbalanced and unwarranted. The user had legit reason to complain, it's not like he wasn't given triggers.
 
2:36 PM
@TylerH It's not abusing the power, it's frustration with how slow the entire process is.
 
Why you abuse the power is not relevant to whether it is abuse or not
If a question is not a duplicate, it should not be closed as such. If you know it is not a duplicate and you close it as a duplicate anyway just to get it closed faster, that is a textbook definition of abuse
 
Well, it's not a duplicate just because there's an answer that happens to explain what information should the question include to be able to answer it. (like r questions closed against how to do reprex)
 
@Braiam It sounds like you're agreeing with me?
The line doesn't seem grammatically correct so it's hard to tell
 
2:56 PM
@Braiam Ugh. Let's not bring that mess up. It's far from the only tag that happens in as well
FWIW, the potential abuse of dupehammers has not gone unnoticed (even if nothing has been said publicly)
 
@Machavity I don't call it abuse, I call it shortsightedness of the implementation of the hammer :)
 
@Braiam Well, like the delete privilege (which I have already groused about on MSE), a lot of what kept it in check was the fact that so few had one. Now that we've got a lot more hammers, you have a lot more dupe closure disputes
The only reason dupehammers aren't as bad as delete is that you only get one successful close and reopen per Q
But all that often translates into is you have self-made groups that just use their hammers one at a time
 
@Machavity I think you didn't know what shortsightedness I'm talking about. It's about the incentive structure of using duplicates when other close reasons apply.
Folks prefer to deal quickly with stuff, so the hammer obviously become the preferred tool
I just say that if we trust users are able to say that two questions are duplicate, we could also trust them to say that it's unclear/too broad.
 
@Braiam I get that, but it plays into the larger problem of duperhammers warring. I have seen instances where you get the "quick rollup dupe" and someone else comes along and reopens it, sometimes to post the same answer from the previous dupe
In other words, it's dupe closed for ease, but people are responding to that with reopens instead of fixing the dupe target
 
3:11 PM
@Machavity I really think that's a storm in a drop of water.
Just make the right tools easier to use, not the wrong ones harder.
SE learned that lesson when they reduced the number of close votes from 5 to 3
> So, there were more close wars. But also, there aren’t very many close wars to begin with, even using this fairly generous definition of “close war”.
 
Either way, it's not unnoticed is all. It's just too limited to discuss in a larger venue at this point
 
Focus on the actual problem: the right tools are harder to use.
 
3:31 PM
 
4:02 PM
I can't believe there is no duplicate for How to get sum of a column in MySQL
 
4:19 PM
 
@Dharman Couldn't these two be enough? one (needs a tag and title edit, I believe) and two
 
@Dharman group by and sum() is everything they need. I'm actually in disbelief that someone needs to ask that. What the heck are tutorials and books doing?
 
@Vega They are hardly canonical. But while I was searching I found one from PHP PoV which actually suits better
 
4:39 PM
Actual comments from a post
> That's good:) But how did you learn to program?
> From the ethernet.
 
Technically correct
 
reminds me faulty tower's Manel: "I can speak English... I learned it from a book"
 
I mean, I learned english reading mangas :D
 
I learned English from games and I speak it хорошо
 
Are you a native Gaelic speaker then?
 
4:44 PM
I am not even Irish
 
Oh. Your profile said Ireland. Was taking a stab at what language that was
 
@Dharman Nichivo sibe ;)
 
Just cause I live here doesn't mean I was born here
 
I live in the planet earth. I was born there too :D
 
@Braiam How do do you manage to live in?
 
4:48 PM
@Vega Very snugly
 
Isn't it dark down there?
 
Interesting tag:
 
Depends, is your down my down?
 
@JeanneDark You could make a case to burninate that. Its usage is all over the place
 
@Machavity I will consider it. I have so far been reluctant to post burnination requests. But there are some tags worth considering. I have recently come across some interesting candidates.
 
5:06 PM
@Braiam I don't have any down to share ;)
 
All your down are belong to us
 
5:37 PM
@Turing85 that grabs attention, but it's not really a duplicate of the linked to question ...
 
mck
6:19 PM
How should I respond to this comment...
 
@mck VTC for too broad I think, it's a code-writing request
 
@mck Isn't hive meant for data water-housing? Why they are trying to do processing?
 
mck
@Braiam it's possible to run SQL queries on Hive too, I think
 
Yay, finally 25k :D
6
Now I have reached nirvana. Only badges to collect now, haha.
 
mck
@klutt Technically there are still more delete votes to collect ;)
I think it's up to 35K?
 
6:26 PM
Hehe, true
But I rarely run out of them
 
mck
Then you need to do more low-quality reviews :D
 
I'm a 25k user. I don't "need" to do anything. ;)
 
mck
sure, I'm just joking~
 
Haha, me too
 
@klutt Congrats!!! :D Ask SO to send you a certificate you can proudly hang in the office ;)
2
 
6:29 PM
@klutt congrats :)
still another 10k to get another 10 delete votes per 1k rep earned though (then you've maxed out everything I think) :p
 
Should you custom flag if someone had a condescending edit summary insulting the close voters?
 
Zoe
@JonClements what's the delvote cap at? 30?
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I would say only if it is really rude or a repeating behavior. If it's just a one-time frustration expression - just move on
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Depends. I very rarely flag for unfriendlyness. It has to be pretty rough before I care.
 
Zoe
@Tomerikoo On the other hand, flagging either way lets mods add a note or whatever it's called to the user to keep track of repeated behavior, for cases where it's not immediately obvious to us mere mortals that there is a pattern
 
6:42 PM
As far as I know, the legal age for participating here is 13. What should we do with a user admitting in a post that he is less?
 
@Zoe "annotation"
@Tomerikoo flag the post saying that please
(you're not obliged to if you don't want to of course... but if we receive such flags - we're obliged to get them followed up)
 
@JonClements Done. Thanks Jon
 
Zoe
@JonClements Not that far off then :p
 
@klutt Congrats!
 
@Tomerikoo escalated to the CM team - thanks for that
 
7:15 PM
@KenWhite quite a collection of tags there
 
I see what you did there.
 
@TylerH Nice! I missed it the first time I read it - been a long day. :-)
 
Oh, that pun was actually completely unintended
I didn't even consciously notice was in the list
I just noticed there were many of them rather than just the primary one
 
7:34 PM
 
@TylerH That's how I took your comment at first, until I re-read the list of tags.
 
7:51 PM
 
9:11 PM
Where does it say not to add "thanks in advance" to your questions?
 
That's about the clean up efforts, but I want to respond to stackoverflow.com/questions/67170147/…
 
"Do not use signatures, taglines, or greetings"
There's also this MSE post: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2950/… It was on MSO originally, before that was split off to MSE.
 
Thanks
@Makyen I'd delete the question instead of removing the link
 
I don't have any additional context but in isolation it seems innocent
I suspect a language barrier more than anything else
 
9:26 PM
@Dharman At the moment, I'm giving them the benefit of doubt, as I don't see anything which links them to the prior instances of spamming that domain.
 
9:39 PM
 
I bookmarked this. Thanks
 
9:50 PM
 
10:13 PM
I have an account that I suspect of puppeteering. Can I post the account here for review?
 
@Turing85 Probably better to mod flag one of their posts, explain your suspicions clearly and let the moderators deal with it.
 
Okay, maybe let me rephrase.
User has a relatively low number of answers (~20). About half of the answers are to their own questions. Is this suspicious or am I paranoid?
 
@Turing85 No, it's not suspicious (most of my questions are self answered), and yes you are a paranoid penguin.
 
@Turing85 There's nothing inherently wrong with answering your own questions with the same account which asked the question. OTOH, self-answered questions tend to not have sufficient information in the question to allow other people to answer, which commonly means the question should be closed until such time as there's enough information such that anyone with domain knowledge could answer (i.e. enough information so that answering doesn't require context which isn't in the question).
 
10:36 PM
@Turing85 If you want a second opionion you can always ping me in a separate room
 
@Dharman nah, I am fine =) the feedback was enough to convince me that I am just paranoid
 
Yeah. I am paranoid too. That's why I have flagged hundreds of accounts for puppeteering.
 

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