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12:16 AM
Sorry for the cv-pls flood ... not sure what's happening in penguin-land right now =/
@cigien =D
 
It is currently -29°C, with passing clouds, in penguin-land. :-)
 
LOL
 
Btw, Scott base reports a balmy -3°C atm ;)
 
12:34 AM
This question https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13644979/mysql-one-to-one-relationship just came up on the close votes queue. It's quite old and has some good answers (even if the question today would be flagged as either too broad or opinion based).

Do we have a canonical answer for dealing with these sorts of questions/answers?
 
What's penguin-land? Madagascar?
@cigien Your lack of puns disappoints. Good titles: "Stack has overflown. Please help", "Cody broke the internets. How?"
 
You have my approval for a "How did Cody break the Internets?" title.
@Dharman I was thinking the South Pole. But I suppose that'd only be for emperor penguins.
 
@Dharman Yeah, I had several lined up. But I've gotten used to people jumping in and editing it to be a "useful and searchable" title :( The only one I got away with was the winter-bash hats bug Meta, and even that was suggested to be edited last week.
I was thinking about "HEY CODY, Y U MODZ BREAkING ALL ThE POSTZ, HUH?!??". Maybe I should have gone for it.
 
@cigien =D ... especially since Cody is renowned for poor grammar that would have been a perfect fit =}
 
Cody has mentioned several times that they enjoy getting thoughtful, well constructed questions like that ;)
 
12:48 AM
Meh, yeah. I wouldn't have cared for the awful grammar there.
 
Heh
 
1:16 AM
^ see their EDIT
 
 
1 hour later…
2:40 AM
@CodyGray I can now access it, seems like it's no longer broken.
 
3:22 AM
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated Weird. It's still (or again?) broken for me.
 
+1 still broken here
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated still broken for me too
 
I was going to ask if you'd gotten an error while closing it, as errors mid-request have certainly been the cause of other oddities in post state...but then realized that given that the end result is "all (or almost all?) views of the question are broken" that might not be distinguishable...
 
I can't remember if I got an error while closing.
It was kind of a busy time. :-)
 
3:39 AM
@CodyGray I can see it.... it has minus two votes and is closed.
Maybe try switching browsers?
Or are we looking at a different question?
 
Are you looking at the one mentioned in cigien's Meta question?
 
It's a privilege level issue: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/404714/208273
(if someone with >3k and <10k would care to click this link and tell me if it's an error, that would be helpful)
 
The Heisenquestion: closed, but attempting to view the closure message results in an error.
 
I wonder why that would be.... could the php code be messing with it somehow?
 
@CodyGray dang, you're a fast proofreader.
well-spotted.
 
3:43 AM
As I've mentioned, incorrectly spelled words just tend to jump out to me with a red squiggly underline.
 
although, nitpick: that screenshot is a logged-out account browser session ;-) (fixed)
 
That makes 100 percent sense :)
 
Ah
Is it possible to have an account when you are logged out?
 
Well, if we're nitpicking, you could have an account but not be logged in :-) ...but yes, I did mean "browser session."
 
How about this: everyone upvote my posts so I can get 3k and see if it gives me an error
just kidding, don't do that
 
3:47 AM
We could probably get them in before the script kicked in. :-)
 
@RyanM It's giving me an error
 
@Joundill thanks!
 
Not a misspelling this time, but an extra word. :-)
 
Very rapid edit "war," featuring a bit of friendly fire
 
Yup. Hope a moderator doesn't notice!
 
3:55 AM
Yeah, gotta watch out for them...they might turn the whole page into an error.
 
I wonder if they could even turn your account into an error!
 
An auto mod flag raised on a moderators edit reviewed by that same moderator ... now that would be interesting :)
 
Technically, we shouldn't handle flags raised on our own actions or posts...
But Community isn't known for posting complaints on Meta, so we might be in the clear. :-)
Oh, that's the original one. OK, undeleted for now.
 
4:15 AM
0
Q: Should we de[create-function]?

DubukayThe create-function tag seems unhelpful at best, despite the 95 questions tagged with it. For one, it has no usage guidance and is mostly used to ask about creating a function. The most common questions have to do with PHP's now-deprecated create_function, but there seem to be better tags for tho...

 
4:38 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
6:38 AM
Are "how to reverse engineer an app to do X" questions on-topic, if sufficiently specific? stackoverflow.com/review/close/28159335
 
@RyanM Yes, but... that is not sufficiently specific by my standards.
 
@CodyGray I was on the fence for the specificity. I think it'd be tricky to craft a sufficiently specific, self-contained reverse-engineering question. Possible, but difficult.
Unrelated: Well, that's a fun new close reason... (perhaps unsurprisingly, the corresponding comment no longer exists...)
 
@RyanM Yeah, that's... not OK.
That's a downvote reason, not a close reason.
At a minimum, the close-voter needs to be more specific.
 
Agreed, and it wasn't even fitting... I voted Leave Open, and would've flagged the comment if it were still there.
 
That is perhaps something that should be flagged for moderator attention anyway. If someone is leaving those kinds of messages in their close reasons, what other abusive comments/messages have they left? That deserves at least a quick check, in my opinion.
 
6:55 AM
@CodyGray Good point. Flagged it. The question is here if you're curious. It probably needs some editing but is largely fine.
 
Oohhh..
Well, yeah.
As far as the question goes, is that not a duplicate of any of the other questions linked in the comments?
 
hmmmm, good point... I was looking in isolation and at the flagged close reason. It does look like a duplicate.
but not "gibberish crap"
 
Could still be a duplicate, even if it were actually "gibberish crap". :-)
 
Oh, of course. I voted to close as Duplicate now.
new game: how many comments on that question can suggest the same duplicate...without actually flagging as a duplicate
 
Nitpick: you don't know how many of those people raised a flag.
Sadly... you are right anyway. :-(
Aaannd... good thing you flagged, as that was not an isolated incident. At least 4 other nearly-identical close reasons in the past couple of days. This is why I tell people to flag!!
 
7:06 AM
I can infer two ways: 1) There are no close reviews corresponding to the dates those comments were posted. 2) None of those comments have been edited, so they couldn't be the auto-comment. (less reliable, because they could have posted their own comment and deleted the auto-comment)
 
7:19 AM
Got the CMs to investigate an account <evil grin>
 
Yes, your serial upvoting flag was finally handled.
 
And you've got a new superpower and can break SO now?
 
7:41 AM
@JeanneDark Apparently, but only for users with close-vote privileges.
 
Yes, I can still see that question.
 
jps
good morning
would anyone consider a "how to calculate" (on an arduino device) question consider a on-topic programming question on SO or should it better be posted on arduino.se? see stackoverflow.com/questions/65892920/…
 
@jps That's too broad, even if it were sufficiently programming related.
 
jps
thanks, I also think for prgramming it's too vague (not even a bit of code) I was even tempted to to send him to arduino.se with a custom close reaon.
 
I wouldn't migrate it as-is.
 
jps
7:56 AM
that's why I often comment with "check the help pages there to see if it's on-topic."
 
@PetterFriberg No time limit on mod involvement!
Sadly, a custom flag on that, saying "Duplicate of another answer:", was declined back in 2016 because a mod didn't see any need for mod intervention. The flag message didn't make sufficiently clear that it was plagiarized, I guess.
 
:), you already have so much other things to, that's why I taught that 20K just as well could handle it, but sure feel free to check
 
Yes, I am not bored. :-) But we are here for a reason, and we don't think it's a bother to have legitimate issues brought to moderator attention.
Just saying that mod flags don't have the "timeliness" requirement that SOCVR close requests do.
 
Sure, it was mostly since user not active the only action that I considered necessary was to delete the answer. Which our friendly 20K are able to do, no need to bother our friendly mods :)
 
Do mods ever intervene when two users can't decide whether a question should be closed as a duplicate or not? I raised a custom flag a few weeks ago, but the mod handled it just said we can't know whether it is a duplicate
 
8:07 AM
@oguzismail Why does that need a mod flag? One votes to close, the other doesn't
 
@Nick In my case it was one hammers, the other reopens
 
@oguzismail That was critical information ;p
 
@oguzismail content disputes go on Meta. Nothing a mod can or should do there.
 
Yeah should have mentioned
 
I don't really think it is relevant that hammers are involved. I didn't see or handle your flag, but in general, I don't see how a mod could resolve that dispute. We'd have to have detailed subject-matter expertise to decide which voter was correct, and even then, it'd just be our opinion. Why would our opinion be any more valuable than that of either of the other two subject-matter experts?
 
8:09 AM
@rene Yep, only exception is where it becomes a user dispute instead of a content dispute
 
The only case where I can see a mod intervening, and where I have intervened, is when someone used their hammer to reopen, only to post an answer that repeated the exact same solution that was already on the proposed duplicate. I see that as clear, objective evidence that the duplicate closure was correct, agreed upon by the reopener.
 
@CodyGray In this case, OP was the one who reopened his question because the answer his question received was way better than the ones given to duplicate target
 
That seems like it might be a valid reason to reopen. If you were hoping for a mod to merge the questions or close as a dupe in the other direction, your flag should have requested that specifically.
 
I didn't request that directly, but asked if that was an option
And a merge would be the best option there, OP's post had only 700 views, while the dupe target had thousands of views
 
Either or both of those do seem like valid flag reasons, not simply adjudicating a dispute between voters.
I'm not sure if the flag was unclear or the mod just misunderstood.
 
8:14 AM
for context, this is the dupe, and this is the original
 
Is there any reason why all the answers to fedorqui's question cannot be migrated to the original?
 
let me chexk once again for a min
 
Actually, yeah... probably.
 
I don't really see any reason against migration
 
I am not comfortable merging without extensive editing of the answers. They are all highly specific to the example given in the question.
 
8:18 AM
Well, I can help if that's what you're asking
 
OK...
 
ok what? do I edit or leave it like that, you seem to have already closed it
 
@oguzismail Merged now. I left "migrated from" comments on the answers that might need some edits.
 
@CodyGray Ok, thank you. I will edit them soon and ping you
 
8:37 AM
@oguzismail I'm already getting pings...
 
8:58 AM
@cigien Thanks for covering the "purpose of downvotes" part in your answer. Now you'll get the discussion in comments about how people actually use their downvotes and not me ;)
 
Fortunately, that is precisely how people use their downvotes.
I like winnable arguments. :-)
 
@JeanneDark Actually, everyone uses their downvotes for that reason. It's just that people disagree on which content should be downvoted, and hence be less visible to others. I don't think my answer has left the door open for that discussion. We shall see ;)
 
Y'all hear that echo?
 
I was more than halfway through typing my response, so I figured "in for a penny ..." :p
 
I thought downvotes were to personally punish other users /s
 
9:02 AM
Somewhat related: I wish that downvotes didn't hide posts from the Meta front pages. Sometimes unpopular posts provoke good discussions.
 
Yeah, I've never understood the rationale for that on Meta. There must be a Meta about that I'm sure.
 
I was referring to my answer on why up- and downvotes lead to unequal reputation changes and then the discussion below it about how people actually downvote (allegedly).
 
@RyanM It also depends exactly why a post was downvoted. As meta voting is often about "agreement" (at least to some extent), I can disagree with something but still find it a valuable question.
 
@VLAZ Even if true, that's the same as using downvotes to push down content that you don't think others should see.
@RyanM The threshold is significantly relaxed on Meta. It isn't a big problem, in my experience.
 
@JeanneDark I remember seeing that comment when it was new and seeing it had an upvote... must say I was slightly bemused... glad to see it didn't get any more :p
 
9:05 AM
@CodyGray And considering that MSO regularly gets programming questions, it's not too bad to see them vanish from the front page
 
@CodyGray It's not that hard to get to -8 (I'm assuming Jeanne's answer is correct). That one's already at -5.
 
@JeanneDark Let's hope those get deleted before reaching -8...
 
@JeanneDark Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, if people want to have that discussion they can go for it. I'll be asleep shortly anyway, so maybe Cody will handle it, like on your answer :)
 
I have been planning to go to sleep soon...
 
@JeanneDark I should say that I have no problem with heavily downvoted closed questions vanishing off the front page.
and MS(O|E) are both very good at quickly closing off-topic questions.
 
9:06 AM
@RyanM You have doubts about me?
 
@JeanneDark If I had doubts, I'd have double-checked the answer instead of assuming ;-)
 
@CodyGray I'm aware, however that's a limitation of the system. The conflation of "agreement" and "visibility". If somebody posts an FR I don't want, I may still want to see other discussion around it. Perhaps it leads to a better FR in the future.
 
Ah, you're speaking only of Meta then.
 
Yes, only meta voting. Regular voting is still content rating.
 
Meta voting is feature-request rating; that's still content. :-)
 
9:08 AM
You can still go to the questions tab and see all questions regardless of score
 
@JeanneDark That's actually what I personally do. I never liked the Top Questions page. However, it's my understanding that a lot of people use "the front page" to view content. I'd hazard a guess that it's most people but I'm really not sure.
 
The advantage of the Top Questions page is that it shows recently edited posts, which is useful to see when someone posts a new answer that needs a downvote or makes an invalid edit. Otherwise, I always use the New Questions view on Meta.
 
@CodyGray It's inconceivable that a new answer might warrant an upvote ;)
 
@JeanneDark I think it has happened before.
 
It's the first time I see a continuous stream of vandalizing edits in a question to prevent reversal. Are people using scripts for this or just wasting their time?
 
9:15 AM
@E_net4thecurator It happens on occasion, I think just wasting their time, after 2 rollbacks from the same user there's an automodflag anyway
 
@E_net4thecurator Hmm, can you clarify? Do you mean the post owner continually edits with gibberish (or equivalent) to prevent a rollback?
 
@VLAZ Something like that, yeah. But the OP stopped now.
 
I've certainly seen the OP repeatedly rollback or re-vandalize. If they keep it up, I just custom flag it for a mod to lock it.
 
@TomerShetah no
 
9:21 AM
@rene But it is the wrong language
 
@TomerShetah So it is not a useful answer. You know what to do
 
@rene Downvote!
 
@TomerShetah Incorrect. The correct course of action is: unleash the ninja squirrels!
 
@TomerShetah I can read AWK. I understand that code. It can't be VERY low quality.
 
Did someone say downvote?
 
9:24 AM
@TomerShetah I would not recommend a VLQ flag in cases like that; see: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/294646 A NAA flag might work too, but opinions vary among mods.
 
How to align two elements on the same line? just got closed for the wrong reason. It should instead be closed as a dupe of Fit inline elements in a row with Bootstrap
 
@rene the Awk is fine, but putting the file in an array in memory is crazy, and the useless cat is always a bad sign
 
What can I do about that?
 
@leonheess It only got closed for the wrong reason because you copied the code from offsite into the question...
 
 
9:28 AM
@leonheess well .... I would say, let's do nothing if it needs to be closed anyway. The dupe is linked, not in the notices but at the right side and in the comments. Let's not create busy work by spending 3 re-open votes and then 3 close votes again to get it fixed
@tripleee true, doesn't change if it is delete-able by VLQ flags
 
@Nick I found this question in the review queue with a bad edit suggestion so I fixed it. Then I saw that it was a dupe and closed it as one but my cv somehow closed it as needing debugging details instead - is that expected behavior?
 
@leonheess yes, you don't have a gold badge I assume?
 
@rene Correct
 
@leonheess IIRC the majority closure reason is the one shown in the banner (can't remember the exact logic when it's a 3 way tie), there were 2 votes for no MCVE, so when you added a 3rd vote for dupe, the no MCVE "won". At least there's a comment below the post listing the duplicate
 
9:31 AM
that ^
 
@Nick Good to know - next time I will come here in that case
 
@TomerShetah could be an answer to a question. Not NAA
 
9:48 AM
@CodyGray Done 1 2 3. fedorqui puts as much effort into curating the bash tag as I do if not more, I don't understand why he acted selfish in this case.
 
he was on a long hiatus and this particular question seems to have been one which reawakened his interest in this site, so I guess there is some emotional attachment
in #!/bin/bash, 36 secs ago, by fedorqui 'SO stop harming'
@tripleee my objection is that Charles's answer is now way down the list of answers (and OP is gone, so most probably the check mark won't change)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:11 AM
@oguzismail I don't like the adjective selfish in here and don't think it is appropriate. If you check through the conversation, I always focused on Charles's answer...
@tripleee well I was a bit surprised to see how dupe hammer is working of late
 
@oguzismail I agree with @fedorqui'SOstopharming' here. Please be careful in your wording when you try to qualify users. In case of doubt maybe even skip that part.
 
12:05 PM
@rene Okay, will do next time
 
thanks
 
12:30 PM
if you alive thanks a lot :-)
 
You're welcome
 
... if you dead, don't bother?
 
Can I ask for dupevotes in here if it's from a small tag where FGITW's regularly outstrip the CV queue?
or is that frowned on
 
Unless you're involved.
 
12:47 PM
@DanielF Not sure that is really a small one. But I added (after a CV).
 
@AdrianMole I wouldn't think so normally either, but I've had a hell of a time getting dupes and cvs through lately
A bunch of our high-rep users are MIA lately
 
1:05 PM
Can someone point me to some reference or explain me what the meaning is of SD-report and NATO. I just want to be sure that I'm not sending my cv-pls requests to nato.int
 
@kvantour Smoke Detector and New Answer to Old Question
 
Morning
 
@JeanneDark Thanks!
 
Is this falls under About general computing hardware and software ?
 
Definitely
 
1:07 PM
^ +1
 
See FAQ #11: "cv-pls is for questions that: ... have recent activity on the question (recent answers, edits not made by you, or suggested edits) [As used here, "recent activity" is considered to be activity within the last 6 months. Note that the "recent activity" criteria applies only to cv-pls requests.]" so when an old question gets a new answer, it's indicated by adding "NATO"
 
@JeanneDark I know about NATO and the question has recent activity. . On your CV pls request I add NATO check box , write code with the help of Makyen. So I understand. I only want to know a second opinion before sending the request.
 
@fedorqui'SOstopharming' Looking at this answer, which is excellent, I also feel sad to realize that the block-quoting is styled the way it is now. In the former days, the nice yellow block made things much nicer to style. Now it just looks ...
 
@Shree I didn't mean you, I was adding more info in another discussion.
 
@kvantour you don't want to start WWIII?
 
1:14 PM
@rene White flag!
 
Shots fired ... wait ...
 
ducks
 
chickens
 
1:35 PM
Should SE Inc. just ban all 'answers' that have links to YouTube (and similar) tutorials? They are often spam and hardly ever anything but link-only NAAs.
3
I mean, questions asking for tutorials are already off-topic, innit.
 
@AdrianMole There's still the occasional demonstration that's useful (i.e. how do I make [some IDE] change [some arcane option]?)
 
Hmm. I suppose if they're included as 'references' in answers. But they're most often "not quite" link-only, like this. And work by reviewers/mods is required to determine of they're spam.
@Machavity So I take it that an NAA flag on that one would have met with your approval. :)
 
@AdrianMole Could be ;)
The answers are so bad I thought the question would be closable but it isn't
 
It's weird that the answer from about 15 minutes ago had an upvote.
 
1:41 PM
Never sure about "You need to occulate your preclarator, as described here: <link>."
 
@AdrianMole Perambulate to my visualized tutorial for ocular stimulation of knowledge production
 
Maybe later.
 
Am I correct in assuming there's no way to migrate some of these old, beloved ML questions to a more appropriate stack? Second meta question in two days Even just like, offer questions with >100 votes to Cross Validated.
"please, take my Q&A's. They're awesome, they're just not on topic here anymore."
 
Wonder if there's some way to have a one-time process of moving them. Like, nominate a bunch and send them off to a new home. Because they are, in many cases, one of the best resources on the internet for ML theory, and closing them means they can't be updated as the science develops.
I think some of the bad taste comes form the feeling that "closed" means "worthless" - and those most certainly are not.
 
2:29 PM
@DanielF The only way seems to be to convince an employee. It seems that former employees like Tim Post did it under special circumstances.
 
@DanielF post an answer then to advocate for an historical lock. My answer mentions it as an option but that is not the main gist of my point. And maybe that is why it collectes some downvotes. A proper historical lock answer might help as a middle ground.
 
@rene I don't agree with historical lock either, although it's certainly a better answer. ML theory is developing, locking stops improvement of answers.
2
 
2:44 PM
yeah, that is a side-effect that might be bad.
 
I also don't know if I'd feel comfortable even saying "ship them to another stack" after reading through some of the inter-stack drama that led to the 60-day rule.
 
I wouldn't mind if migrating was done like so: Hey, I'm the Jon Skeet of AI.se. This question is on-topic on our site and its quality is awesome. I see you don't want it here, please migrate it.
Most times migration is suggested by users that have no clue about what is on-topic on the migration target. They often even don't have an account there.
 
@rene We need an inter-site handshake protocol.
 
@CodyGray thank you for your nice words; they are really appreciated, especially given that they come at a time when I am being depicted as the alleged leader of an alleged crusade against ML theory questions
 
@AdrianMole I'm unsure how an handshake protocol works in these social distancing times.
 
2:54 PM
@rene Maybe just a wave, then?
 
That can work.
What are you waving at?
 
@CodyGray that said, your dispassionate review is not about my primary issue here; I trust that I have clearly explained what exactly that issue was. Similarly, @rene has clearly stated that the point is taken, so that case is closed.
@CodyGray beyond that, I am afraid you have put me (everyone, in fact) in an impossible situation: if we are to take the "if ever" interpretation/directive seriously (how else we could take it, really?), then, apart from new questions, every other request here for reasonably old posts should first ensure that the subject post has never been even mentioned in any Meta or MSO thread.
 
0
Q: Burninate [electronics]

LundinI think we should get rid of electronics. It attracts a whole lot of bad and off-topic questions, most which should have been asked on https://electronics.stackexchange.com/ instead. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? Is the concept des...

 
aww... I'd forgotten that feed had a trogdor image... :)
 
@desertnaut As far as "crusader" goes: I'm one person, who said one thing, was supported by nobody, apologized, and I even wrote an answer (mostly) agreeing with you about the rules and how they should be applied. I don't know what else I can do.
I find many of those old ML answers to be simultaneously very, very off-topic and very, very valuable to the growth of the science of ML. I don't see a way to resolve that duality and find that upsetting. I shouldn't have attacked the messenger. I apologize. Again.
 
3:13 PM
@JonClements User ID -13: unlucky for some?
 
@AdrianMole hadn't noticed that...certainly unlucky for tags he's let loose on :p
 
@AdrianMole change the ID to 451.
 
Who's 451?
 
presumable reference to Fahenreit 451? (the temperature that paper tags burn at?)
 
3:17 PM
Someone made it through high school without reading Fahrenheit 451?
 
@JonClements yep.
 
What makes you think I made it through high school? ;)
 
@DanielF wasn't part of my curriculum at all, actually. But I still read it because I like Mr Bradbury's writing.
 
@AdrianMole umm... was the Cappuccino years a lie then!? :p
 
All lies! Damned lies.
 
3:23 PM
@DanielF I am sincerely sorry if I sounded personal against you, or if I missed any previous apology. But, since you mentioned it, your comments mentioning some perceived crusade are still there
 
@DanielF This is an international site, with users from other countries which may have never heard of 238 Celsius
 
I am currently sitting less than 100m from the lab where isotopes were invented - so, 506 Kelvins, please.
 
Luckily even in the US it has been a long time since schools everywhere required students to read such lame books
 
@desertnaut Gone. Can we discuss possible solutions now? Because while I can't fault your reasons or process, I sincerely feel like in this case a win for SO moderation is a loss for the sum total of human knowledge.
God that sounds melodramatic now that I read it again
 
@DanielF It's important to note that no value is lost by closing a question
 
3:33 PM
@DanielF noted. ^^ Closing questions does not remove them, so i really cannot see the argument for such old, off-topic posts, especially the ones who have been popular (and arguably useful & helpful)
 
@TylerH Yeah yeah, I'm old.
 
This is link-only, isn't it? It has been sitting there for quite some time now.
 
@desertnaut It does lock them though, and many are updated with new theory as it develops. ML isn't remotely a dead science
 
@DanielF we cannot have our cake and eat it, too
 
@JeanneDark Yeah, I would say so. And the poster even says it doesn't solve the problem for them.
 
3:35 PM
@DanielF Even though you can't migrate them, new developments can find a home on the respective stacks. It's not restricted to SO.
@TylerH Thanks!
 
@DanielF not destroying existing value is one thing (against which nobody seriously argues); keeping them perpetually open (despite being off-topic here and now) is another
 
@DanielF locking questions is separate from closing them. Normal users can vote to reopen a closed question, but the point of closing is to say it is not on-topic to ask here in its current form. Perhaps sending such users to ML.StackExchange (or Cross Validated or whatever site is appropriate) would make you feel happier about some kind of resolution vis a vis the sum total of human knowledge?
 
@TylerH ideally I'd like to ship the whole question to ML.se or stats.se or wherever else. But 60 days and a whole lot of whining about vote totals on se.meta makes me think that would be a tough sell.
 
Yeah, the best bet there is to just ask OP to re-asp on ML.SE of their own volition rather than try to migrate
Hopefully they are interested enough in ML to see a new approach in the answers
 
Why the need to migrate it at all? Questions like it or closely related can be asked on the respective stacks and might get even better answers and can be kept up to date.
 
3:40 PM
@JeanneDark the inertia of a massively cross-referenced SO question on the google algorithms means that the out-of-date answer will always be the first hit though.
 
Then maybe delete the SO question ;)
just kidding
 
My eye literally just twitched
 
@DanielF you can repost the content on the other site, ask a moderator to put a link to the new content, and once google juice works its magic out we delete the old question.
 
3:59 PM
The autodeletion of the "possible duplicate of" autogenerated comments are definitely broken nowadays.
(but could that be an intended behavior?)
 
@desertnaut No, that's not actually what's being said. Once a post has been discussed on Meta that basically means that it can never be acted upon in this room, that much is true. However, that does not mean that you are expected to search all of Meta before making a request in here. That would be very hard, and the FAQ makes it clear that this is not required.
It simply means that you shouldn't knowingly make a request on such a post. It also means that if someone points out that the post was discussed after you make the request, then you just ask for it to be binned, and that's sufficient.
 
4:19 PM
@Braiam How so? Post, self-answer, set both to community wiki status? There's often multiple answers so one would have to self-answer multiple times.
I think without buy-in of the receiving mods that would generate bad blood quickly as well, but maybe
My best idea so far is basically to post a yard/tag sale of closed ML questions on se.meta and hope other stacks would want them enough to ask for migration.
from SE folks (who aren't bound by the 60 day rule)
 
4:36 PM
@AdrianMole I don't think it'd be worth it... doing a search for url:youtube.com is:a deleted:1 locked:1 gives 450 in the history of SO - and a quick glance they're definitely all ugh but from the sample have all been handled quite quickly as they're blatantly low quality anyway. I have seen some genuine (albeit few) uses of linking to youtube in fairly good answers and I don't think they'd be a net gain by an auto-block
 
@cigien sure! if I know it, I should not do it, because of the Meta effect and because we are not above Meta; but if I don't know it, I can do it, because in such a case the Meta effect is probably irrelevant (?), and we are above Meta in practice...
 
What's that other pseudo domain? you.tu.be or something like that (ends with .be, anyway). That one seems more prevalent, from my experience.
 
would you build a house based on such rules?
if I do it unknowingly, who gives a f^&k about the Meta and its effect, right? It would seem to imply they were not that important in the first place... :(
 
@AdrianMole youtu.be
 
That's the fella.
 
4:44 PM
just block the Belgians
 
I'd expect nothing less from a Dutchman! :-)
 
4:59 PM
A special for @Machavity?
 
too broad.... i would say bool isWorkerWearingAHelmet(); but we need more info — ΦXocÄ™ 웃 Пepeúpa ツ 17 mins ago
Well played
 
TylerH spoilt your fun though. ;(
 
Yeah, he closed it before I could
 
@DanielF Not necessarily to use cwiki. As long as the content is elsewhere, there shouldn't be problems.
 
Wouldn't I be plaigarizing then?
like, big-time stealing thousands of hours of people's work and posting it under my name plagairism.
nah
 
5:07 PM
@DanielF Nope.
As long as you give credit, you aren't doing that.
The question was deleted from SO stackoverflow.com/questions/4056912/…
 
@Braiam You don't actually attribute the questioner anywhere there, but I see.
I'd probably still feel more comfortable with cwiki since it wouldn't get me any rep (I wouldn't want to seem to be leeching rep off those questions)
 
is it possible to ask for edit reject here? found this edit where somebody is trying to create a new tag, that tag is not relevant to question and it seems that not programming tool at all
 
@Ruli That would be a [tag:review-pls] request.
 
@Braiam Just becasue it's no longer a punishment mechanism doesn't mean I can't deny myself with it, I assume?
I've done it before for canonical answer where I just synthesized a bunch of different answers together into one holistic one.
@Ruli the tag does a fine job of making it clear it's about symbolic algebra.
that's what is for
 
5:27 PM
@DanielF it is an attempt to create a new totally irrelevant tag
cadabara-computer-algebra, that does not seem to have anything with question besides that the person proposing edit is developer of that system
 
@desertnaut I'll try to explain how I understand the rules, and why they're written as they are currently. SOCVR defers to Meta in all matters. This puts any posts that have ever been discussed on Meta beyond SOCVR, at least as far as making requests goes. The reason for the "knowingly" caveat is that it would be impractical to require that members check Meta before ever making a request; effectively we would be paralyzed, and unable to ever make a request.
This does mean that we rely on an honor system; we trust that members will not knowingly make requests of this nature. The fact that requests could be made if one is unaware of a discussion on Meta does not imply that we are at all above Meta, or that it was unimportant to try and follow the rule in the first place. It's simply a result of striking a balance between not going over Meta, and actually letting the room function by requests being made.
This may not be an ideal situation, but as far as I can tell, there isn't a better alternative. One possible resolution I can see would be if someone implemented functionality such that any requests would be checked against Meta to see if it had ever been discussed. I am not aware of such an implementation, and I suspect it would be difficult to do so. Until we have that, we don't really have a choice but to trust that members will try and follow the intent of the rules.
 
5:42 PM
@Dharman @NathanOliver Please remove the request
 
6:06 PM
@DanielF That would mean that you are abusing a feature and a moderator may revert the post status.
 
@Braiam That's on the mod. I'd prefer to err on the side of not taking credit for work I didn't do.
Or at least making the best-faith effort I could to do so.
 
6:48 PM
 
@TylerH Do you think it'd be on-topic if it were re-written as "is there currently a public plan by major browsers to block 3P cookies?" Or still off-topic since it's still about roadmaps and too likely to change?
 
@RyanM I would suggest that would still be off-topic as that's still 'speculative future changes by vendors'. As you say, they could change their mind, invalidating any answers that might be written one way or the other
It also kind of runs afoul of the nature of questions, which are supposed to be about practical, real problems you're facing (e.g. not speculative future ones)
I guess they changed it during the grace period
 
7:04 PM
...huh, they must have slipped that in a split second before I changed it to "meow meow meow"
 
yeah
 
@RyanM You could ask about specifications, but I am not sure how to phrase such a question to ask about the direction in which w3c goes. Questions about the future are difficult to answer in principle. There's no way to predict it reliably.
 
Makes sense to me
 
I have full edit privilege, should I edit out the part "I am a beginner", or "I am new to this language" from questions? :)
 
7:20 PM
@Letsintegreat yes, that is fluff and you should edit it out even without edit privileges.
 
7:43 PM
Hmmmm ... building kernels kind of suggests programming, I just can't figure out what he's asking of us. Is it just me?
 
@tink No. Building X is not programming, otherwise I'm a kernel, wine, firefox, etc. developer :D
 
Aren't kernels the stuff that run OS's?
 
Heh ... what close reason would you pick, @Braiam ?
 
@tink Unclear.
 
Sounds reasonable
 
@Braiam Our resident pair of glasses would disagree that building software isn't programming. That said, that question is totally unclear, so I agree with your closing it as such.
 
Agreed with @RyanM.
How compiling a kernel is not self-evidently programming, well, that logic escapes me. But so does the logic of that question.
 
Kernel programming is basically the programming of computers and Operating systems.... that has to be on-topic.
kernel's can be programmed in the C language, and if that isn't on-topic, then I don't know what is.
 
Yeah compiling is part of programming. As is using IDEs. If you need help setting an OS up... you're out of luck here
 
@CodyGray Because just doing ./configure && make && make install is programming?
 
7:58 PM
Yes.
make is a software tool used primarily (if not exclusively) by programmers.
 
So, right now the programmer population just exponentially increased by a factor of 300
@CodyGray Nope
 
Great! Inclusivity!
 
Make is a tool using by anyone that needs to compile something that uses a makefile
 
Except it really didn't. My mother doesn't compile her own kernels.
 
Writing said makefile on the other hand...
 
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