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12:10 AM
@Vickel Is it going to be open saucer? :)
 
@Scratte I hope so, the ugly "clock" shapes, which sometimes fall down from "heaven" are nice for hanging and ringing in the churches and monasteries :)
 
Hmm.. speaking of ringing in space. Does it make a sound?
 
@Scratte "clock" I meant "bell"
 
Yes.. it reminds me not having to make one's own coffee ;) I didn't know they fell from the sky ;)
 
@Scratte remembers me black adder's back and forth timemachine :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder#Blackadder:_Back_&_Forth
@Scratte those are the ones, coming in from space, with I don't know how many parachutes connected to... I prefer a saucer
 
12:27 AM
@Vickel I've never seen that one :(
 
^it's hilarious, absolutely hilarious :)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels what to do with this now? OP added code, bit still no MCVE, right?
 
@desertnaut It's now a typo error
RO (???) Please change this request to a typo error
@desertnaut: fat fingers, should have been "now" not "not"
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels cool ;)
 
The latest edit to the code is interesting.
 
12:33 AM
Would you consider this as NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/65129125/2359227
 
@TomerShetah No, I wouldn't flag it as such as it does try to answer in some poor way. Looks like it should be down-voted for quality.
 
@cigien They are. You just have to take the absolute value of the votes.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels but it is actually a link-only answer
 
@desertnaut That seems to have the essential musk of an answer, so I'd leave it be. Your comment is fine. I edited it to add a link to the "edit" page (which you can do easily by putting [edit] in your comment markdown).
 
^ or leave a comment to ask the answer to be improved
 
12:39 AM
@desertnaut What @CodyGray said
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Cody speaks about a different answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/20409836/…
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Done... Only mods can edit existing requests, but you get lucky that there are enough of us around.
 
@CodyGray I thank my lucky stars and you :D
 
(Although that question was self-deleted, so the request can really be binned. No mod needed. I am superfluous!)
 
@CodyGray thanx
 
12:43 AM
@CodyGray This "extra boost of attention" and "expedited closure" way of thinking is also important to understand why, apropos of an earlier discussion in here, I don't see having a mod lurking in here to action requests as "wasting" others' votes.
Presumably, if you come to post your request in this room, it's because you are certain that the question needs to be closed, and it needs some extra help getting there (either because it doesn't manage to get closed through the normal review process, or because something about it is causing harm if left open).
Such requests deserve extra attention; that is the whole raison d'etre of this room.
 
@CodyGray presence of mods in here is a vote multiplier
 
@CodyGray: and sometimes we may be wrong, all of us being human. It helps to have someone who views this site from a different more meta-perspective involved -- a mod
 
Oh, absolutely. That perspective is yet another added bonus of having mods around. I was strictly referring to an earlier discussion that having a mod hammer a post closed that you had voted on kind of made it feel like your vote had been "wasted".
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels yeah, helps having someone around who is never wrong :)
 
@desertnaut Not THAT high a power
 
12:49 AM
:-)
 
Anyone feel like disentangling the 'grammar' in this? I think it's NAA but ...
 
@AdrianMole On a normal day I would, nut not today.
 
@AdrianMole I would but sometimes and not always but most of the time
 
Isn't it?
 
with that i am off to try to find the actual answer
 
12:59 AM
I would have to have been at least 50% awake to decipher that. Which I'm not.
 
@CodyGray nut sometimes, nut always, nut most of the time.
@AdrianMole which I'm nut.
 
Nuts? :) I like nuts :)
 
 
1 hour later…
@HovercraftFullOfEels this is not even a question!
 
^ that one was reviewed as "No action needed"
 
yeah!
@Nick ... how the heck did I miss that, given that I monitor the ML tag...?
 
2:27 AM
@Scratte I hope that ended up in the bad reviews room...
@desertnaut bad post overload? :)
 
@Nick yeah, probably something like that... :(
 
@Nick I don't think it did.
Very few reviews end up in there. And I can't get to it anymore anyway as it's deleted.
 
@Nick A song by the Creedence? Bad Posts Rising.
 
@AdrianMole :D
 
@Nick What does that mean exactly?
 
2:31 AM
@Scratte Can you see the review link?
 
@desertnaut It was before he edited it (after finding the error pointed out by the comment)
 
@AdrianMole Not a lot for me to see on it.. It looks like this
 
@AdrianMole Huh, that's what that is. Thank you.
 
@cigien If you see a really bad review, you can post a link to the review in there. Samuel will look at it and in most cases suspend a reviewer from reviewing.
 
2:35 AM
@Scratte Why you telling me?
 
Misclick.. or trying to get your attention ;)
 
Actually, I have questions about how to review some things. That's the place to ask, right?
 
That's usually here :)
 
Oh, it's only for incorrect reviews then?
 
You can ask in the other room, but don't expect a lot of action in there..
 
2:39 AM
Ok, thanks.
 
I think Sam runs through the transcript there once or twice a day, taking action on reported bad reviews, where appropriate, and sometimes responding to folks who appeal against review suspensions.
 
How does one tell that this is spam?
@AdrianMole Ok, I've started reviewing triage, so now I know where to ask when I'm suspended :)
 
Heh.. no idea :D
 
Bear in mind that, for >20K users (i.e. "Trusted Users") a review suspension also comes with a 5K reputation penalty (non-refundable). xD
 
@cigien we, the "little(<10k)" people can't see that
 
2:42 AM
@AdrianMole Rep I can make up, no trouble :) Getting suspended makes me feel a bit like I'm wearing a dunce cap, which is silly, but there you are.
 
Even the big folks can only see the "afterwards" view. But I guess the link is the clue, in that one.
 
Right, sorry, I'll mention if a post is deleted when asking about it. cc @Scratte @Vickel
 
@cigien cool, anyway, looks like you hit the right button and passed...
 
The problem with spam audits is that the system doesn't understand the difference between subtle spam, undisclosed affiliation and blatant spam. Some spam is deleted from actions due to users collaborating and finding evidence in charcoal. Other is removed by moderators who can see a users history. Some of it is very tricky to figure out as just one reviewer looking at a post.
 
@AdrianMole What's the "afterwards" view? And the link is a clue, but the question does ask about that. Why is this spam per se?
 
2:46 AM
The "afterwards" view ... i.stack.imgur.com/Uk5yM.png
 
Oh, I see :p
 
Presumably, when you were first presented with that post, it wasn't in pink.
 
Yeah.. that doesn't look like spam to me. That just looks like an Answer. They mention three different products.
 
@AdrianMole Of course. It looked like spam, but I wouldn't have been able to back it up, so I clicked on the link. It being an audit is surprising.
 
@cigien last paragraph link... but probably borderline
 
2:50 AM
@cigien I don't even understand how you could tell that was spam.
 
@Vickel But the link looks useful to me. Am I missing something?
 
Failed spam audits are among the most common asked about on Meta.
 
@cigien I don't click links
 
I like spam.
 
@Vickel How do you open a post? :)
 
2:51 AM
@Scratte I donnow
 
@AdrianMole Oh, I didn't know that. So I guess it's not something to worry about too much?
 
@AdrianMole I see bad times today! Thanks for responding to cigien, I disappeared for some lunch
 
But how do we know it was deleted as spam? The banner only says that there was a spam flag on it, so perhaps it wasn't, or am I missing something?
 
I'm always happy to mention the CCR, whenever the opportunity presents itself.
 
@Scratte I couldn't, that's my point. Something seemed off, and I don't know what.
 
2:53 AM
@AdrianMole not a band you hear a lot these days - but still on my mega playlist (the one that I take on road-trips)
 
^ +1
Very popular in my local watering-hole.
 
@cigien Ahh.. perhaps it was not a normal review in that queue. Longer than usual, not code only, nor "Thanks, it worked"?
 
And CCR seem also to have an influence on the Stack. :-)
 
@Scratte Maybe. I don't think so, I've not done many reviews in LQP.
 
@cigien Oh.. well, then certainly not that :)
 
2:56 AM
@Scratte yes, maybe just CV as opinion based and the audit system changed it?
 
@Nick I didn't actually mean to ping you specifically. I just didn't want to spell out what I wanted to ask :p
 
@AdrianMole What is the CCR?
 
@AdrianMole seems about as active as they are :)
 
@Vickel No. It was an Answer as far as I can see.
 
3:00 AM
@Scratte If you can see deleted posts, posts which were deleted as spam or R/A (i.e. due to re-flags, either 6 or N+ moderator) will be locked, deleted by the Community user, and the content won't be available unless you go to the revisions page.
 
@Scratte you are right, but it still could be the system playing audit tricks?
 
Note: the content is shown to moderators on normal question pages without the need to go to the revisions page.
 
@Makyen Oh.. or a review? :)
Funny about the revisions page. Perhaps that's just because they forgot to implement that users should see that either.
 
3am, bye /o
 
Have fun :) Don't forget coffee at 7am :)
 
3:13 AM
Is this dupe a useful signpost?
 
@cigien You can't tell in such a short timeframe. That's why Roomba doesn't want to delete them.
 
@Scratte I don't follow. It's a dupe, and the question and answer are upvoted and accepted. It'll never roomba right?
What does the short timeframe have to do with whether it's a useful signpost?
 
@cigien Ah. That's not what I meant. I meant that the Roomba rules are different for duplicates because duplicates may turn out to be good signposts.
@cigien If it only has 48 views in a year, then it's not a good signpost :) It it has 4000, then it is :)
well.. depending on topic of course. If it's a topic with general low traffic then I suppose the values can be lower.
Also.. those values just came out of as examples. Those are not "rules" :)
I think the 365 day Roomba has a 1,5 per day visit rule.
 
@Scratte Does that apply to dupes as well?
 
@cigien I expect so. The only rules that doesn't apply is the 9 days close rule. This is what the Roomba Forecaster says. The duplicate rule is mentioned only in the first column.
 
3:25 AM
^^ R/A
@Scratte Hmm, ok, thanks. Let me guess, you don't want me to post a del-pls for posts like that, right? ;)
 
@cigien The question was off-topic and looking for opinions/experiences. The answer was significantly biased towards the service they were promoting. In addition to the content, it uses a link to a "comparison" which exists on the site of one of the companies being "compared". Any such comparison is nearly always going to be biased in favor of the company on which the comparison is hosted, and will tend to indicate that whoever is linking to it is biased.
That gives a feeling that something might be up.
What username were you shown during the review?
 
@cigien If you think it's useless then I have no objections. It's been here for 8 days. I expect the duplicate adequately cover the answer given on this one. Though on second thought.. it's the only duplicate on it as far as I can see. It's not the 38th.
 
@Makyen That makes sense, but if a question is asking for an opinion, then the answer is likely to be opinionated. The answer does seem to answer the question, biased though it is.
@Makyen I wasn't shown any. It looked like the user profile was deleted.
Huh, based on your question, it seems you can see the original username?
 
@cigien Then that would be a fairly strong hint that there might be issues.
@cigien Yes.
 
@Makyen Ah, ok. I usually use the username to see if there's any relationship to the link. But a deleted profile says even more I guess. I didn't think of it that way, thanks.
@Makyen Cool. It seems like there's very little y'all can't see. I shudder to think of all the crap you must see all the time.
 
3:34 AM
I've reviewed a post from a deleted user, that turned out to not be an audit, so it's not clear cut :) But in First Posts and Late Answers it's not uncommon for the poster to be "deleted" and the post posted "2 hours ago"
 
@Scratte Ok, number of similar dupes would be a useful metric.
 
@cigien The user had to become deleted somehow. They either chose to have their account deleted or it was deleted or destroyed by a moderator. Obviously, for the latter, there's usually a really good reason for that to happen. :;
 
To be honest, Makyen is much better than I am to explain the general duplicate usefulness and issues :)
 
@Scratte But you'd do it in about 20 fewer lines of text. ;-)
 
3:42 AM
@Makyen So, it's impossible for a real post to have the normal metrics of an audit.. that's a little silly :)
@AdrianMole I had no idea that that was the name of the band. I've heard most of their songs. How very strange..
 
@cigien Yes. Basically, with the username it could be clearly determined that there was undisclosed affiliation. With information available to moderators, it was quite clear that the question was a spam seed and the answer was the spam which the question was posted in order to show.
@cigien There is ... a lot of crap. ;;
 
@Makyen Given that the username is not visible to reviewers, is that a reasonable audit?
 
@Scratte Why? What's displayed in the review queue could be adjusted to whatever is desired. It would also be possible for the review system to just not include a post as an audit if the username wasn't available (i.e. the user was deleted/destroyed), or just not use the post in a review where the user would need to have been deleted too soon (i.e. not for first posts/late answers). It's probably an unforeseen consequence of the change to requiring the 24 hour delay prior to self-delete.
 
@AdrianMole BTW as you suggested, I looked through my Qs and As to see if any had been used as audits. I don't know what the rates generally are, but about a quarter of my Qs have been used as audits, which feels nice.
 
@Makyen I meant the deleted user and posted "2 hours ago". If it takes 24 hours to delete an account with a post, then that's just not possible as a real review. Then it can only be an audit.
 
3:53 AM
@cigien Debatable. It's trivially detectable as spam by just opening the post in another tab and there are hints in what is shown in the review that there are issues which need further investigation, which implies that you should try opening it in a new tab to get more context.
@Scratte Yes, that looks like it would be one way to determine that it is likely an audit. OTOH, it is possible for a profile to have been deleted by a moderator, so it is possible for it to end up in that state.
 
@Makyen One learns to spot those things after a while :) And open the post up in a different tab. I guess it mostly catches new reviewers. (Or Adrian :-)
 
@Makyen Ok, there's enough hints indicating the link should be opened. It seems like a reasonable-ish audit then. Thanks.
 
Oh my! Do I see the user that first created this room in here?
5
 
{bourbon biscuits}
 
Yeah, a little surprising. Certainly more discussion on that post than warranted.
bourbon biscuits?
 
4:08 AM
Whatever - I don't like {waffles}
@Scratte Quick: go wake-up rene!
 
@AdrianMole I think maybe there's some history I'm not aware of. I've not actually read the entire transcript for this room :)
 
Quinquennial review?
 
Don't they call those anniversaries?
 
Quintessentially the same thing.
... I'm suffering repercussions from my malaria - side effects of the quinine.
 
lol! Any other Quins? Quintet? Quintuplicates? Quinone?
Hmm.. the deal is that if you're on quinine, then you do not get malaria.. :)
 
4:16 AM
How about The Mighty Quinn?
 
This post on quines should be migrated to CS.
 
^ Too old.
 
Through the normal process, sure. Is it mod flaggable for migration? Not this one necessarily, but in general?
Oh, also, it was mostly a joke re the quin. thing.
 
But then you'd end up with a question on CS that was posted before the site was created.
... which would be fun, I admit.
 
Oh, that's cool :) Nothing wrong with that in principle though, it seems.
 
4:21 AM
@cigien It's not. You legitimately have no way to know. That was spam because a moderator nuked it as part of a spam wave. In the review audit, you can't see any of the other posts by the same user that comprised the wave, so you're flying totally blind. That's a terrible audit, and it should be removed from the system.
 
Smokey is flagging posts that spam SE sites?
 
@cigien Questions older than 60 days can't be migrated, even by moderators.
 
@Makyen Ah, ok thanks for clarifying.
@CodyGray Now I'm getting conflicting advice, Makyen said debatable. Y'all should all consult with each other before giving advice ;) I do agree that it seems like it would trip reviewers up without teaching anything useful. The deleted user profile is quite a red flag though.
 
But a greyed-out or anonymized username can also be used on known good audits. (Like Skeet posts in Late Answers.)
 
@cigien While I understand where Makyen is coming from, and I do agree that you should have been able to pass the audit based on the amount of information that was available (which, you did), I also disagree that it's a good audit. As mentioned before, audits should be obvious. That one wasn't. It looked like it might be an answer. And, were it not an audit, we wouldn't want you just spam-flagging posts that aren't clearly spam.
So arguably it teaches the wrong thing.
 
4:30 AM
Definitely seems that a Meta.SE post about the audit system is in the offing...
 
There are zillions of them already. Why would another one help?
 
I know. But there is a currently on-going process about improving the whole review system thing, is not?
 
@CodyGray Hmm, fair enough. I'll need to see more audits in the queues before I have a sense of what the right thing is for audits to be teaching.
@CodyGray Re one of your previous comments, I do see that the benefits of having a mod in the room are considerable and outweigh my concerns about "wasted" votes. At the moment it's only rational agreement I'll admit, I still feel bad about it. I'll work on that though.
@AdrianMole Does the system actually do that? That's very sneaky.
 
Not sure this room is all about ameliorating bad feelings.
 
Wasn't suggesting it's the room's problem. Just mine :)
 
4:35 AM
@cigien Yes, indeed. I've had a few of Jon Skeet's in Late Answers and First Posts. Without hiding the name, the audit would be too easy.
 
@cigien "only rational agreement"? You feel bad about agreeing with me on a rational basis?
 
hehe
 
@CodyGray Ah, I see. That was ambiguous. I meant I feel bad for my feelings not matching up with what I know is right. Hardly uncommon, feelings always lag behind, and often don't catch up.
 
I get where you're coming from @cigien. I say things like that and leave people confused.
 
@AdrianMole I'm sure Jon's written at least one bad answer :)
 
4:39 AM
@cigien Then go find it! (The "hello world" language thing doesn't count.)
 
@AndrewCheong Ah, good to know I'm not the only one. I understand you're one of the founders of this room, correct? I've seen your name around.
 
@cigien Yes, that's the danger of feelings.
 
@cigien - Ah yea, technically I created this room but really Rene et al. did all the work and I don't have a clue what goes on here these days :)
 
We still close lots of bad questions.
 
@AndrewCheong Well, it's a pleasure to get to say hi :) I quite enjoy this room and what it does, so thanks for that.
 
4:44 AM
@CodyGray - Although, I've found it interesting sometimes to apply feelings in logical domains. Lagged information forces longer periods of needing to keep your mind open. And context overload / confusion can lead to novel solutions. Although I guess maybe you can just get drunk or something to do that too.
@cigien ^-^ That makes me glad.
 
@AndrewCheong Getting drunk off of feelings yields new clarity? Interesting perspective.
 
Some here review better when tipsy, so..
 
Wait, is there another way to review?
 
Perhaps. Some of us also get suspended :)
 
@AdrianMole - Lol, I suppose if this room were too successful it might stop existing so... yay?
 
4:50 AM
@Scratte I may (neither confirming nor denying) have been review suspended, once, for reviewing while drunk but, if so, I didn't realize until I was sober.
7
 
But only if so.
 
My memory is/was somewhat addled.
 
Huh, when did the Graveyard come into existence? (First message says 2013 Nov 30 but that can't be true; must be one of the first SOCVR chats being moved into it.)
 
Looks like September 2015 to me
It's a way to keep the transcript in here clean, both for userscripts and for human eyes that want to check what they've missed, but without actually deleting the messages (since, (A) ROs don't have delete privileges in chat, and (B) we want them visible for transparency).
 
Oh, very nice. I remember stepping in here several years ago and chat was just, unreadable, either due to bots or everyone was being so meta / issuing commands here like a terminal, I couldn't tell if they were bots :)
So that's a fantastic development.
 
5:22 AM
Yeah, the bots have mostly been kicked out of here into other specialized rooms, like SOBotics. The only bot we have running now is MetaSmoke, and that only when it's relatively certain that the notification is a true positive.
 
Oh I see, so it's also SOBotics. I should uh, rtfm.
 
@AndrewCheong We're basically bots in human shells
 
@RyanM Syntax error, column 52: end-of-sentence punctuation mark missing.
 
@CodyGray Dang, I thought that was implicit for lines with only a single statement these days...
 
@RyanM Just as I suspected. All just an elaborate Turing test.
 
5:31 AM
Beep boop. I mean, uh, indeed.
 
!!/blame
 
@AdrianMole It's Scratte's fault.
 
@Scratte - Hi, btw. (Just noticed the starred message, wasn't reading at the time.)
 
I'm off to serial upvote Smokey posts!
 
:wave:
 
5:36 AM
He'll be back soon. There's only one. :-)
 
A typo (wrong parameter order) that has a score of +47.
 
6:05 AM
@CodyGray Can we delete it? please? pleeeaaasssseeee???
 
@Nick We have to close it first.
 
Can you share the link?
 
You can find it pretty easily. (-1 for no research effort ;;)
 
I was actually wondering what would happen if I put in a cv-pls for that Smokey post. :-)
 
^^ I finally found a use-case for Makyen's odd ;; smileys. Perfect for embedding smileys inside of parentheses, which is always an impossible dilemma.
 
6:09 AM
Presumably, if it does get deleted, Smokey will retain the rep.
 
Yeah, cuz it's old.
 
... although the Bot doesn't need that much.
 
And once upon a time, someone (possibly Shog or Animuson?) got tired of all the bellyaching about deletion of old questions causing loss of muh precious repz.
 
@CodyGray I akways found delight in collapsing them (-: like this) but that became harder when I started to write my smileys the wrong way around to prevent atrocious software from turning them into emojis behind my back
 
Hmm. Good point about emoji-avoidance, but I don't think I can agree there is any delight in collapsing the parentheses.
 
6:11 AM
Skype is particularly pesky, you can turn them off for yourself but everyone else will still see a coffee cup if you write (c) as in what comes after (a) and (b)
 
Wait, really?
Or as in a copyright symbol. That's awful.
Why doesn't (a) become a warm mug of apple cider? Does (t) become a cup of tea?
 
Don't ever send []() by Skype, then.
 
they are part of Microsoft now but this can't be explained by that; they did this before they got married and moved into the trailer park
 
Yeah, that even goes beyond what I'd expect out of Microsoft
 
(Microsoft has its own peculiarities in this area; I constantly see somebody else's preferred font size and presentation language for time zones etc)
 
6:14 AM
On Windows? Or in other software?
(Plot twist: the "somebody else" is your alter ego.)
 
ten foot pole but I can't escape using Teams at work (only in the browser as a rule, a dedicated browser which I let crash when it wants to)
no, I have colleagues in Poland and Malaysia who have things set up in their local language, and then in Teams (like in email) I see their localized variant of "on Friday, tripleee wrote:" etc, sometimes in tiny 4-point italics
 
Ah. I've never used Teams. I have a co-worker who has used it to collaborate with other companies. She has had a very bad experience, but has chalked it up to being incompatibilities with her Mac.
@tripleee That's just the "joys" of HTML email. Most clients I see do that.
 
the browser version is remarkably usable, though it lacks voice/video integration
and IIRC doesn't work at all in Safari
@CodyGray yeah, but it now leaks into Teams too, for things like links to another conversation etc
 
Lacking voice/video integration is something I've come to regard as a feature in conferencing clients. The number of times I need to see someone's face during a conference call is very low.
And the number of times they need to see my face is even lower.
 
@CodyGray I have to run Teams when I want to see somebody present, but I quit immediately (and still I have my machine reboot as if it thinks it's a Windows machine)
 
6:19 AM
The browser version can't even display screen shares? That's pretty limited indeed.
 
@CodyGray the decision to have somebody's font preferences spill over to the recipients is a particularly weird and Microsofty thing
 
All these companies want you to install their shovelware, though. They go out of their way to force you to do so. Zoom is terrible about that.
 
@CodyGray it's probably possible for some scenarios, but being able to open my mic to comment when I need to is not supported in any browser scenario I'm aware of
 
Yeah, that part is a feature. Can't you call in on your phone? That's what I do with Zoom, WebEx, etc.
The audio is cleaner and far more reliable than trying to use web-based audio.
 
another "feature" of Teams is that there are different types of conferences where some features are unavailable, you have to know when you send the invitation that you have to select the type of event, and some like "live presentation" turn off e.g. the ability to have a chat side channel
@CodyGray I've done that a few times but the low fidelity of phone audio and the trouble of having the thing going on two separate devices is not worth the hassle
don't get me started on Microsoft's (lack of) competence with audio, though it has gotten a lot better
 
6:23 AM
You think it's lower fidelity? Odd. I have the opposite perception.
 
the main feature of remote calls used to be how they blow up the background noise and botch the actual speech
phones by design strip the signal, it's like talking through a fuzzbox
 
iPhone seems to do far better at filtering background noise than computer audio
@karel wrong link (same as your previous request)
 
I can't find it :(
 
First result on Google for the title is stackoverflow.com/questions/63677248/…
But...despite a little hint of "searching for a library", that doesn't really seem to be a resource request. It looks like they're just looking for a solution to the problem they describe.
 
6:50 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (typo in question link)
 
7:01 AM
Why are these SD links being shown as closed by community?
 
They are not. Nothing was closed. They're showing the questions as being deleted by Community, specifically because they are spam/offensive.
In other words, the questions were nuked as spam.
@RyanM IDLE hands are the devil's playthings?
 
@CodyGray wouldn't that only be for a Python question? :-p
 
@CodyGray Right, sorry, I meant deleted. But who deleted them?
 
@cigien The six folks who cast spam flags.
 
@cigien When posts are nuked with red flags (spam or rude/abusive), Community is shown as the deleter, not a specific user. A moderator can see who cast red flags on the post (and thus indirectly brought about its deletion), but regular users cannot see this information.
 
7:13 AM
But it has a score of -1. Is that enough to delete a post?
 
Can anyone possibly rationalize the attacks on this answer for me? stackoverflow.com/a/58972202/2943403
 
@cigien Yeah, each red flag casts an implicit downvotes. Normally, it takes 6 red flags to reach the deletion threshold. But red flags from a moderator immediately reach the threshold. I nuked them. :-)
 
But if a user did actually cast a delete vote, then it will be shown as deleted by "that user", Community.
 
@mickmackusa I don't see any attacks. Are you referring to the downvotes?
 
7:14 AM
@CodyGray Ok, that's what I'm asking. Thanks :)
 
@cigien Were you angry that they weren't more heavily downvoted? The downvotes don't do much. Having a post nuked for spam/offensive has far more severe consequences than a handful of downvotes. (Also note that I destroyed the user account, so... yeah.)
 
Okay, I get the message. I'll &mdash; more ...
 
You can also &ndash;. Good exercise.
 
@CodyGray I'm rarely ever angry, but I'm frequently confused, that's all. I don't remember seeing that before.
 
@CodyGray yes, I consider four no-comment downvotes on a unique, informative, demonstrated, correct answer to be an "attack".
 
7:17 AM
I struggle with what to do with troubleshooting questions like this where a user is struggling to achieve a result due to various mistakes like (according to the answer the OP thanked, which I haven't verified) an incorrect orientation, things being in the wrong spot, and a missing weight. I really struggle to imagine this ever helping anyone in the future, but it has an MCVE. small problem with card view design android studio
 
@cigien My use of "angry" there was tongue-in-cheek. A better choice might have been "concerned". Confusion is of no cause for concern. I'm surprised you haven't seen it before. I usually one-click nuke SD reports of true spam whenever I'm around.
@mickmackusa Well, um, downvoters aren't supposed to leave comments, so that's kind of an unfair interpretation. Furthermore, you are a bit biased to assess the informativeness and correctness of your own answer. I wouldn't know either, since I don't know anything about PHP, but it seems unreasonable to dismiss the opinions of 4 users as "attacks". Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
 
@CodyGray Ah no, I hadn't noticed. You also move things to the graveyard frequently, so that might be part of it.
 
@RyanM edit the title to better reflect the actual problem and then move on.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I do think -4 seems kind of... odd @mickmackusa, having read your answer. Did you receive all the downvotes all at once? Or, over time?
 
@RyanM Note that the "unlikely to ever help anyone else in the future" close reason doesn't say anything about an MCVE.
@AndrewCheong One on Nov 23, 2019; two on Nov 24, 2019; one on Mar 23, 2020.
 
7:24 AM
@CodyGray this is why I am asking around -- to try to draw some sort of intelligent reason why a post that adds value to a page should have a -4 tally. Must be my winning personality.
 
@mickmackusa In that case, I think you should mention that you'd like feedback from php SMEs.
 
@AndrewCheong looks like 1dv on the first day, 2 dv on the second day, then another dv earlier this year.
 
@mickmackusa If I had to come up with the best argument I could for downvoting that post, it's kind of hard to follow: one needs to read the entire code and match the printouts to the solutions. Also, the solution you recommend is "remove the first word only if there are multiple words", which is arguably not what the OP asked for.
Personally I wouldn't downvote that, but I'm just guessing why someone might.
 
@mickmackusa I wouldn't have downvoted for this reason, but the only thing I can think of is, that the asker and question is clearly of such a beginner context that, your answer is hard to connect. I'm a seasoned programmer and it took me a second to understand your point, and the point seemed kind of far from the asker's interest. Still, -4 is weird. Maybe just bandwagoning.
@RyanM said it better, ignore me.
@mickmackusa - I've read some of your other answers though and you write some really thorough and helpful answers. Winning personality in my book :-) Chalk this up as a strange blip in the universe.
 
Every day in LA is the same: I get an audit that I already flagged back when it was originally posted, and I catch someone plagiarizing the code from another answer to post their own, unformatted code-only answer (third day in a row). Am I actually supposed to detect plagiarism in LA (or FP)?
 
7:39 AM
Of note, when it was first brought up in here, I deleted a couple of rant-y comments about downvotes that mickmackusa had left underneath that post. Any of those comments alone would have been sufficient to motivate me to downvote it.
 
@JeanneDark Coffee not quite working yet ... I read your opening as referring to life in Los Angeles. xD
 
Yeah, as soon as you land at LAX, you get a dumb audit.
 
But that's a TSA audit.
 
Is that better or worse?
 
Depends what you have in your hand-baggage.
 
7:41 AM
Anyone been strip-searched by a review queue audit yet?
 
I thought it was bashing LA (the city) too but using a review queue metaphor lol.
 
@CodyGray No, but it sometimes feels close
 
Review queues are just quality theater.
 
@JeanneDark Unformatted, code-only answers should have something done with them in review, whether plagiarized or not. Answers that look too good to be true should also be suspected of plagiarism, and you should do at least a cursory check. I have no idea why you're getting audits that you already flagged. That seems like a serious bug. Have you reported it yet?
 
@CodyGray Re plagiarized answers: I custom flag them (this one's pending, the earlier ones were marked helpful and posts deleted). Re audits: No, I didn't do anything about it except for complaining in here ;)
 
7:46 AM
Sounds like you're doing exactly what everyone else does :-)
 
Is that good or bad? :)
 
7:57 AM
I've also had reviews (LA or LQP - not sure) on posts that I've already flagged as NAA. I know one was an audit and one other I mentioned in here (long time ago) ... can't remember if that was an audit, though. Either way, I don't think I should be seeing posts in review (audit or not) that I've already flagged.
... in fact, I think the one I mentioned here was not an audit. Someone (vaguely squirrel-like) suggested I do something outside the review, then go back and refresh. That allowed me to click "I'm done."
 
@CodyGray then I would say that your criteria for downvotes urgently needs to be recalibrated. Downvotes on a post are not earned by the quality/relevance of comments under a post. That is just grumpy behavior that does not correlate to good content curation. If there are irrelevant comments, then the correct action is to flag them for removal and nothing more. Downvoting a post for a comment that is later removed will only confuse researchers.
 
@AdrianMole I've got such audits already when I reviewed for the first time. Maybe I just flag too much and so there are barely enough audits left for me ;)
 
Even so, as Cody says, that's a significant bug. You should post it on Meta (even Meta.SE, maybe - get some green bubble points).
 
I stick with MSO.
 
I definitely like that I get points on MSE :-p
I can almost cast close votes there! Almost.
 
8:13 AM
I'm fine with getting no rep ;)
 
Of course, you can post on MSO and then, if a mod or CM feels that it's better suited as a network-wide issue/report, they can migrate it to MSE. You'll then get all your existing upvotes transferred with that.
 
Only if I activate my account there
 
Are you Scratte in disguise?
 
@AdrianMole Well, that's a scary thought.
 
Are we so much alike?
 
8:24 AM
It's the avoidance of reputation thing.
... unusual.
 
I'm not actively avoiding it, I'm just not so motivated to do things that would gain me rep
 
Many folks here seem like they would sell their mother's kidneys for a few hundred unicorn points.
 
Did I just miss an argument about downvotes?
 
You did
 
Whelp, there's always another one.
 
8:32 AM
Better than downvotes about arguments.
I think.
 
8:52 AM
 
Hmm, that answer shouldn't have been deleted...
 
@RyanM *headscratch*
 
@CodyGray I concur; people have a habit of deleting answers like that.
...oof, that was a mod deletion.
 
Hmm, it never got any reviews. It was just flagged by one of our own (and another newer user) and deleted by a mod. Weird. Foils my plan to hand out review bans suspensions.
 
@CodyGray Would be a good audit candidate if you could choose them? :)
 
9:01 AM
Excellent username, though! :-)
 
@JeanneDark Haha, maybe. I think Adrian earlier referred to such a choice as being "devious".
 
Or even nasty.
 
9:17 AM
#NastyMods, yeah, I could see that catching on.
 
*Gollum noises*
 
^ ninja'd
Nasssty mods takes away our precious points.
 
they deletes the preciousssss
 
9:34 AM
@Lankymart That does not seem in any way broad... They just want to apply a .patch file from within a script.
 
@CodyGray fair enough, it's more the way they asked using multiple unrelated tags, suggesting they don't mind having a solution in one or the other, wreaks of a "just give me the code" question.
 
Yeah, I get how the multiple tags was throwing off the scent. But... it's the same answer either way, so the scripting language difference isn't material.
 
9:51 AM
@CodyGray that's fine then.
 

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