« first day (2569 days earlier)      last day (1234 days later) » 
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:10 PM
This question was closed as Seeking Recs. It wasn't the right reason in the first place, but regardless, is it on-topic now? Looks like a how-to question to me.
 
@cigien well, it was the right reason in the first place since the first version said "I'm looking for a tool to..." :-)
I believe that question was already litigated here yesterday, though
 
Not exactly, there were CVs cast after the mention of "tool" was edited out. And are we not allowed to discuss posts after they're edited, if they were discussed here before? I didn't make a request for action.
 
@cigien We are, I was thinking it was already discussed, post-closure, but a quick search didn't turn up anything.
At any rate, I have edited it a bit to improve it (OP's most recent edit had put it back into close-worthy territory), though I am refraining from reopening it because I don't personally know bash/cron jobs well enough to know if it is answerable/within scope.
Apropos of nothing, I heard Kubernetes is dropping support for Docker and I don't know exactly what that means but I'm thrilled.
I hope Docker turns around and drops support for Kubernetes in retaliation :-)
 
@TylerH Ah, I see. No, it wasn't discussed post closure. And yeah, I'm not comfortable enough with the subject to cast a reopen vote myself. Thanks for the edit, that does improve it.
 
5:31 PM
I thought Docker and Kubernetes was the same company :O With one just being a cluster of the other..
How do I create a temporary ban?
 
@Scratte what do you mean?
I can temporarily ban you from this chatroom if that's what you mean :-)
 
@Scratte How many hours would you like to be banned for? ;)
 
Oh! I need to improve on my joke-skills.. :) It was a spin on "How do I create temporary access". However.. the reception was more as if the question was reversed into my joke.
 
What joke?
 
@Machavity If unspecified use 6 to 8 weeks ...
 
5:44 PM
First rule of good jokes: Don't explain the joke :)
2
 
@Scratte Believe it or not, Docker and Kubernetes don't technically do the same thing and you can use them together. I have no idea how, but that's what the docs say. Someone even made a kids book about it
@rene Dang it, now I have to do math to convert that into hours...
 
@Machavity I though users were banned by minutes in chat.
 
@Machavity 24 x 42 palindromic math yay
 
@Scratte flag bans, yes. If a message you posted is flagged and validated by reviewers it's 30 mins per flag. But mods can only ban in hours
 
240 x 4 + 48
1008 hours
 
5:49 PM
@Machavity I'll need to read that :) Thanks :)
I have no idea if any of my messages was every flagged though. I've only been kicked once.. which doesn't count.
 
@Machavity I need a Dummies Guide to all the Dummies Guide books...
 
It sound like you want a manual to a rubber duck.
 
@Scratte You have no chat annotations either way
 
Oh my, chat annotations. Get comfy for mine... you'll be here a while...
 
@Machavity Awesome :) Thanks :) (I wasn't kicked on stack chat btw, so I don't think you can see that here.)
 
5:54 PM
@TylerH You have... one
 
@Machavity hey, I never said how long of a while...
 
@TylerH I need a Dummies Guide to the Dummies Guide to all the Dummies Guide books illustrated.
 
I'm curious to hear about what precipitated it TBH
 
Is this a very old NAA?
 
@Scratte Yes and the recent one is, too
 
6:01 PM
@TylerH I didn't want to post my usual comment as I noticed they just did the same as the other Answer..
 
@Machavity As most books for children, there are many inaccuracies and lack of subtlety that reality has.
 
@Scratte Did you flag?
 
@Braiam IKR. PHP is depicted as a cute giraffe, not an elephant
 
@JeanneDark No.. I comment, you flag :)
 
Don't you want to see the number of helpful flags rise?
 
6:15 PM
@JeanneDark I'm on a flag-break..
 
@Scratte Why? (If I may ask. I know it's a sensitive issue.)
 
@JeanneDark I'm being silly? :) I like the round number and I'm trying to improve another of the numbers.
I was a bit demotivated for a while.. so I found a new hobby, I suppose.
 
That's not a round number. Look at that: 101110111000
 
@Scratte I also like round numbers. But 6000 looks nicer than 3000 :) I guess you try to vote more on posts now
 
@JeanneDark Yes. I found a nice balance in ratio that I'm trying to maintain too :D I just spoiled it today though, so I'll need to catch up.
 
6:20 PM
I can't get enough
 
I imagine you're trying to get a 0% upvote ratio. On a rounded 2 decimal float, you'll need another 120,000 votes.
@janw It has 3 sequences of 3 identical digits! And 3 of singles. Awesome :)
 
:D
 
@Scratte Thanks for doing the maths ;)
 
2+2=4 -1=3 quick mafs
 
-1=3?
Well, with 2-bit numbers...
 
6:28 PM
@janw there's just a "result" missing.. :) Or ^ that :)
 
6:48 PM
Is this an answer? It basically links to another answer to the same question but it has an image added...
 
@Yatin maybe one could consider "is press de zoom option." an answer
 
@JeanneDark Okay.. Also, can you take a look at this?
 
This looks like less of an answer to me rather comment, link-only at best (everything preceding the link seems to be a question, not an attempt at answering)
 
Yep, my thoughts exactly. I think I will mod flag asking it to be converted. Thank you :)
nvm it went puff
 
@Yatin Probably best to use NAA for potential "convert-to-comment" stuff, rather than a custom flag. Any handling moderator can then make their own mind up.
... assuming it's a mod with a mind! xD
 
6:55 PM
Ohk
 
Custom moderator flags should be used sparingly, and only really when there's no other option.
 
👍 I will keep it in mind
 
@AdrianMole But.. I sometimes raise one that says "Hi :) Thank you for all your good work. Here's a free flag for your counter :)"
 
@AdrianMole I'd say rather that custom moderator flags should be used anytime an issue should be seen by a moderator and the issue is not obviously one of the named flags.
 
^ Fits mine exactly :D
 
7:06 PM
I won't argue with a moderator - especially given the fact that a small group of galaxies does have a mind! :)
 
:)
 
Which group of galaxies is that btw @Makyen?
 
@Yatin is it too blurry? ... I see myself out.
 
@Yatin Stephan's Quintet
 
@Makyen When you have a minute, can you take a look at this? I moved a solution out of a question into an answer. The attribution of Piotr's comment in the answer doesn't work any more. Also, how do I attribute the OP exactly, in the moved answer?
 
7:20 PM
@cigien Typically you just create a Community Wiki answer and say at the top "OP solution moved from question to answer" or something similar.
 
@Yatin @TylerH is correct. I must admit that I didn't remember the name and found it easiest to determine via a Google reverse image search. Although, I was aware that it was a Hubble image by NASA, and thus in the public domain (which was one of the reasons I picked it).
 
@TylerH Ok. And if I section the rest of the answer off, the usage of "I" is understood to be the OP?
 
@cigien Well if the whole content is copied from the question, then yeah that should be pretty clear
@cigien See some of my wiki answers for some examples; I come across these situations somewhat regularly
Usually I will put the whole thing in a block quote to make it explicitly clear
 
@MrUpsidown "did not read the docs" is not a close reason, that's a downvote reason. What specifically is that post missing in terms of an MCVE? It looks like it already contains sufficient information for someone to answer in a comment.
@cigien You really do need to flag things like that, even if it's only for mods to delete or edit that portion out of the comment. Let us decide if it's worth reaching out or not to the user.
 
@cigien In general, particularly when the user is still active on SO, I'll first rollback the question and leave a comment asking the user to add it as an answer, and explain that A) answers shouldn't go in the question and B) that if they don't want to create an answer with the content, then I will create a community wiki answer with the information. I also give them a link directly to the source for the version prior to the rollback, to make creating the answer easier.
I'll then revisit the question in a couple/few days to see if the user added an answer. If they didn't, then I'll add a community wiki answer which gives attribution to the OP and explicitly stating that it was originally added by the OP into the question.
I'll also explicitly state which CC BY-SA license applies to it, as my copying it into an answer doesn't change the license version, even though the site software will say that it is now under CC BY-SA 4.0.
@TylerH Has also given good advice, so the above is a bit redundant.
 
7:34 PM
@TylerH Some of your examples were very helpful. I've edited the answer, thanks. I think it's ok now.
 
@Scratte It is not possible to suspend users from just Meta.
 
:51075311 Oops. Sorry I interrupted. :;
 
Haha, no worries. I'm going through the transcript, and it's hard to do that and keep up with current topics (and keep up with my conference call....)
 
Just don't get confused and start nuking your conference callees.
 
That wouldn't be from confusion, but rather liberation.
5
 
7:37 PM
@cigien Don't use "OP". Use the username.
 
@Makyen Yes, it was helpful, but there are some other points here. It was a pretty old answer, and by a low-rep user, so I just assumed they aren't active. I'll make sure to leave a comment, and wait a bit for them to respond before editing next time. Also, I didn't realize that I should add the original license. Is that also necessary if the same license applies to both? I'm not sure what you mean by "give them a link to the source". Isn't that in the revision history?
 
@Dharman oof, credentials on the internet
 
@CodyGray Oh, the OP removed the comment in a few minutes, and were otherwise responsive to feedback, so I didn't bother. But I'll definitely flag any comments of that nature next time, sorry about that.
@Scratte Aah, good point, thanks :)
 
@cigien OK, no problem, as long as the comment is gone. We just don't want to leave commentary like that out there.
Or any discussion about voting in comments, for that matter.
 
@TylerH oof credentials hardcoded in code
 
7:42 PM
@Dharman You're telling me PHP has variables?!
:-)
 
@CodyGray Ok, I see. I'll still flag if the comment is gone, if I think the author may have been serious, since the comment could have disappeared due to a NLN flag for example. And I do see your point about not making the decision myself; I'm not strictly speaking qualified to make judgements of that nature.
 
Yes, that's also fine.
You already got linked the official guidance on Meta, so I didn't comment on that.
 
Basically, better safe than sorry, right? At worst it's a declined flag.
 
Just wanted to clarify that, even if you choose not to engage, you should still flag the comment to get it removed.
Right.
 
7:45 PM
Got it, thanks a lot.
 
@cigien Hmm.. that is a good point. Maybe that dilemma may break my flagging rule.
 
I just stumbled upon this question from 2013 with 1 answer with 13 upvotes. I answered a similiar question in february, which by the time nobody noticed the dupe, and it has 4 different answers. I'm wanting to vote to close one of them as a dupe, which one should I vote to close?
 
@CodyGray That's super. I'll just continue leaving comments for you to clean up then ;)
 
@cigien Yes, the source is available from the revision history, but many users, particularly newer users, won't know that, which will result in them having to put more effort into creating an answer, rather than just a copy & paste.
No, if the same license applies, then you don't need to say that. I include it when a different license is stated as applying by SO/SE, because just my copying the content can't change the license for the copied text, but the notes in the timeline will explicitly state that CC BY-SA 4.0 applies to the new answer.
 
Why does this question have 28k views? stackoverflow.com/questions/17270418/…
 
7:53 PM
@Makyen I see. I just added in the license, and I think I'll do that anyway to be safe. I think I've edited the answer appropriately now, do you mind checking? Also, I see the OP was active 15 hours ago, but maybe that was just because I edited their post. Regardless, I'll give them time to respond in the future.
@Makyen Understood.
 
I have literally no idea what the question is asking about
 
@Scratte I sincerely hope so. If this isn't a good reason to break a rule, I don't know what is :)
 
@cigien this? :D
 
@Dharman nuked
 
7:56 PM
@Scratte Well, now that's a flag worth raising, that's true ;)
 
@Dharman Good Title -> Views. Good content -> upvotes?
 
I can guarantee you that flag will get declined.
 
@Scratte The title might have been a reason. Although the title on its own didn't explain the problem. What was the problem with the tool we don't know. It could have been a bug with the tool and the answers were taking wild guesses.
 
^ why is Arduino Uno shaped like that
 
@CodyGray I know.. I have 5 already. But I bet it would make someone smile. Maybe I'll need to rephrase it. "Dear moderator. Hope you're having a good day. If not: Here's some ❤️ and a 💋"
 
8:01 PM
@Scratte Do you mean "make someone smile" more than mods normally do when declining a flag? :-)
 
Ah! it was moved to another site. I was feeling weird when I watched @Cody edit off-topic stuff :p
 
Ouch.. that hurt! :=)
 
Yeah, tried to remove the open-ended, opinion-based part so I could migrate it.
I suspect that it's complying with a standard mounting harness or something. An EE could tell you.
 
EE?
 
Electrical Engineer
 
8:03 PM
@cigien Yeah, that probably OK. I'll usually also add the question title with a link to the question, because, well, the license requires it. I also feel it's a good idea for times when the answer gets copied to other locations (i.e. sites which scrape SO). Adding the question title and link is probably being a bit pedantic, but I prefer to try to be thorough with attribution.
 
@CodyGray I am gonna be an electronics engineer and idk :p
 
@khelwood I don't see why that needs to be immediately deleted. I agree with the closure, but it's not something that is causing harm, and I see no reason why the asker should be denied the answer.
 
@CodyGray Denied the answer how? They've already been told what the answer is
 
How do you know they've seen it? They haven't accepted it.
 
@CodyGray Is that the system? We leave typo questions undeleted until they have an accepted answer? which then prevents them being roombahed?
 
8:10 PM
@khelwood They asked the question 11 mins ago... if it goes puff they won't be able to see what the answer was
 
@Dharman it's a common task and is 7 and a half years old
 
@khelwood No... The system is much simpler: we don't delete questions immediately unless they are causing some type of harm.
 
@Yatin users can see their own deleted questions (and answers on those questions)
 
@TylerH I think you are right duckduckgo.com/…
 
It should be very rare that a question gets closed and deleted within minutes. (Getting closed quickly is ideal, of course.)
 
8:12 PM
@TylerH Not unless they know how to. It's unlikely they know that if it's a new user. It took me a long time to find out that one of my posts had been deleted.
 
@Scratte They'd still get a notification
 
@CodyGray But what is the harm in deleting it now?
 
@TylerH Since when? I never did.
 
@CodyGray OK, if that's what we do. I was just trying to get it dealt with now while it's on my radar because it will not be deleted automatically.
 
I get notifications all the time for content that is deleted by the time I get to it
most often comments but I'm pretty sure questions/answers too
 
8:13 PM
@Makyen Done. Pedantic maybe, but nothing wrong with that :) And I asked you explicitly because you're particular about this, and I agree that it's better to be clear in these matters. Thanks again.
 
@TylerH I am never notified of a deleted comment of mine. Do you have some kind of script going on?
 
@khelwood for what it's worth, our group FAQ #11 covers this: "del-pls: Unless there's a good reason, it doesn't have to be now (i.e. unless there's a good reason, wait to post the del-pls until the post is actually eligible for deletion-votes)."
 
@cigien np. Thanks for making all the changes.
 
@TylerH Well it is eligible for delete votes, so by the i.e. that is long enough
 
@Makyen Do you mind if I ask another question, this one about "recent activity" since we had discussed this before?
 
8:16 PM
@khelwood That's a fair point, but I believe the deletion votes it talks about are 10k deletion votes.
but that part of the FAQ could use clarification for sure
 
So given a question closed as a typo, eligible for deletion but that will not be eligible for roomba, what's the appropriate amount of time to wait before deleting it?
 
@khelwood The system only forces you to wait 2 days. If it's score < -2 then immediately after closure.
 
Is this an answer? It got 2 upvotes in front of my eyes, I am questioning my decision.
 
@Braiam I mean out of consideration for the asker
 
8:24 PM
@Yatin They have a question that is a verbatim copy of the "answer". Why the upvotes??
 
@Magnetron That's not eligible for a cv-pls. It doesn't have any recent activity as far as I can tell.
 
Everything we do here is evaluated through the lens of, "is this causing harm?" If the answer is "no", then there's probably no good reason to request that something be done about it.
 
@cigien No, I don't mind. Go ahead.
 
@khelwood Why delete it at all? Will it interfere with search of other posts? Could someone else be making the same mistake and find it?
 
@khelwood The asker had all the time in the world before asking the question ;)
 
8:28 PM
OK, so never. Message received.
 
@khelwood Nope, as soon as the system allows
 
@Braiam Obviously I do not agree with that. And that the asker had all the time in the world isn't a very good reason when the Question isn't bad at all. They just didn't understand the operation.
 
@khelwood We don't have a specific minimum outside of what our FAQ says. However, a few days is usually plenty of time to ensure OP has seen any answers.
 
Just like lots of people do not understand the difference between i++ and ++i
 
@Scratte I doubt it will ever be found. And if we keep allowing typos to live then the site will be full of typo questions that can't be found and won't be useful to anyone but the OP.
 
8:31 PM
@Makyen This request was made yesterday. After a bit of discussion with the poster (it's in the transcript), and some more thought, it seemed to not satisfy the criteria for "recent activity".
I pinged the most recent RO, Machavity in this case, to bin the request. They haven't responded, unless I missed that in the transcript. Regardless, the cv-pls hasn't been binned. Am I misunderstanding something here?
 
@Yatin I find some of them.. closed. I even upvote some of them, as even if it is a typo it's also often a misunderstanding.
 
@cigien ROs miss stuff sometimes, especially when they are also moderators :-)
 
So immediately, or after a few days, or never unless it's causing specific harm. Cool.
 
@TylerH Sorry, I didn't mean to imply they were slacking or anything. I figured since they didn't respond, I missed something. I take it from your binning the request that there was no recent activity that the poster was referring to?
 
@khelwood To be clear, folks issuing their own opinions is just that: opinions. The relevant aspect is what I quoted earlier. You won't be chastised or punished or anything like that for posting a request as soon as it's eligible... just know that sometimes someone may suggest waiting a little bit more time for OP's sake.
 
8:34 PM
@Scratte In general, I agree with you. On the other hand, in this specific case, I don't think that question is a very good reference point, so I don't have any objections to its eventual deletion. I just don't think it qualifies for expedited deletion, if for no other reason than to give the well-intentioned asker the opportunity to read and benefit from the answer. The Q&A was not a violation of our rules as such. Closure and deletion of that question is just the "long tail" cleanup.
 
@Scratte I agree that not all typos are bad... some are very useful and very hard to catch. Maybe mark it as a duplicate of another question with the same typo?
 
@cigien Bleh. I saw it but was on my phone at the time. Forgot to circle back
 
@cigien Correct, you can see the most recent activity for a post at the top of the page under the question title. If it's over 6 months for a cv-pls/reopen-pls, then it needs to have some special reason for being closed (e.g. "this is a virus/spam that was missed" or "being used as justification for other really bad questions")
 
The general idea is that hopefully at least one RO will see it
 
@Machavity No worries. It's always reassuring to know that mods make mistakes as well :)
@Machavity Yeah, I figured someone would have seen the discussion or the request, so I was confused.
 
8:36 PM
Hey, don't throw all of us in with the riff-raff :-)
 
Well, not you obviously ;)
 
@CodyGray Yes. This one also has a title that makes it difficult to find.
 
@TylerH Actually, there's subtlety there. There are other valid reasons for making an old post eligible. I had discussed this with Makyen at some length, and there seemed to be too many corner cases to justify a rewording to the FAQ. I assume Makyen is looking through the posts, and giving it their usual attention, and writing up a detailed response :)
 
@Yatin They are already closed when I find them. And I do not think a mission of mine to reclose them will be well received :)
 
8:39 PM
@cigien there aren't that many, but the main thing is "exigent circumstances"
 
The FAQ should just say that you need a reason. That covers the corner cases.
Listing out all of the reasons is just madness. Trying to make an exhaustive list just ends up with perpetual nitpicking about what is omitted.
 
part of the reason why we don't enumerate a ton of reasons is we are still limited on CVs per day and there are always too many questions that need closing that were asked recently
so we don't want to encourage hunting old questions (and there are other reasons, too)
 
@CodyGray Absolutely. But just saying "reason" potentially allows too much in, I think.
 
@cigien Maybe we can just say that you have to win a war of words with Makyen or Cody. That should cover it, right? :-p
 
time for some lorem ipsum generation...
 
8:42 PM
In all seriousness, though, I don't see too many issues with people coming here providing spurious justifications.
And if they do ("I don't like this post. The avatar is ugly."), that's relatively easy and frictionless for anyone to deal with.
I guess my general position is just against attempts to create exhaustive compendiums of rules.
 
Ok, swinging one way is less problematic than the other. I see that. The FAQ is currently very strictly worded though. I do like TylerH's "exigent circumstances". Something could be done with that phrasing.
Yeah, enumeration is out in this case, that's for sure.
 
We are talking about rule 11?
 
Yup. 11.1.3 specifically.
Not that they're numbered. I just like numbers :p
 
11.opencircle-1.filledsquare-3 I'm with you.
 
Is that 0 or 1 indexed? ;)
 
8:46 PM
So... are you wanting to change the definition of "recent activity", or are you just thinking to add another bullet that would cover "other exigent circumstances that would motivate the question's expedited closure"?
@Scratte Well, you can answer that question by enumerating the options. But, fair, good nitpick.
 
1, like all things should be
 
@CodyGray Not another bullet. IIRC, Makyen had said something like "recent activity defined as "the post was brought to the attention of a wider audience"". I would add an explicit "decided at the RO's discretion", and I think that should do it.
 
Isn't "decided at a RO's discretion" a universal caveat/condition to all of the rules in the FAQ?
Otherwise, yeah, I think that's reasonable.
 
That's the implicit Rule #0.
 
If you can show that it's been Reddited, for example, that's certainly a relevant consideration.
 
8:51 PM
Of course. That's why I said explicit for this bullet. I think it's fine without as well.
 
@cigien This looks like it got handled while I had to step out. If there's something still to deal with, please tell me.
 
Well, I was looking forward to 3-4 paragraphs from you ;) But yeah, I think we've got it. Thanks.
 
Yeah, I had just gotten to that comment in the transcript as well, and was circling back around to update. :)
 
@CodyGray Well, ok, I'll add that to the list of things I want to make PRs for. It's low on my priority list though. Somehow I prefer writing code to prose, even editorial.
 
You can write a program to insert your text and make the Pull Request, no?
 
8:56 PM
Ah, true :) I just need to write a program that writes the text of the PR, and I'll be set.
 
Just use a general message for all your PRs: "Make the stuff more gooder"
 
More gooder, huh? With prose like that, the PR should sail through :)
 
Later, you can submit a PR to change it to "more better".
 
That reminds me. Your point about the "do an action" in the SO help-pages is good. I can't seem to find references for where that's used, even in technical writing. I think I'm not looking in the right places.
 
I looked briefly online. I couldn't find a reference, either. But it definitely sounds awkward and wrong to me.
 
9:04 PM
I made a mistake in thinking an Answer wasn't one. It says it's a known bug, and links to the bug report. But it also asks for votes on the bug report. Is that OK?
 
Meh. Probably?
 
Right OK.. I'll leave it then
 
I don't think it counts as spam to link a bug report. And that is the answer.
If it looks too spammy or annoying to you in terms of how it's phrased, just edit it.
I've posted answers saying essentially the same thing myself. Except they've all been turned into true NAAs now, since Microsoft keeps shutting down their public bug trackers... :-(
 
@CodyGray Roaming through your Answers to get my flag count up now
 
Should keep you busy all winter
 
9:13 PM
It's already winter. I think it's about 8 degrees in my flat now.
 
Yeah, what you need is a way to burn off-topic questions to keep yourself warm.
 
@cigien Basically, "recent activity" is intended to be a indicator of how likely it is that that question being closed, or at least getting more attention wrt. evaluating if it should be closed, is substantially more beneficial to SO than most of the other questions in the close-vote queue getting that attention.
The reality is that this room only has so much attention bandwith and available close-votes. [See note] We must limit the number of requests which get posted in the room to a level which the room can handle. If we don't limit the number of requests, then the room will become just as ineffective as the close vote review queue.
Requiring "recent activity" is one of the ways which we use to limit the number of requests in SOCVR and attempt to focus on questions where the actions of people in the room will make more of a difference for the site.
In general, making more of a difference means focusing on questions which are more likely to be seen by others and/or have answers added to the questions (i.e. focusing on questions where the closing quickly, or at all, makes more of a difference). The "recent activity" requirement is attempting to distill the level of benefit down to a metric which can be reasonably and quickly evaluated.
[Note: yes, we now have some moderators who also watch the room, so, in theory, there are more available close-votes. However, moderators only have so much time to spend on SO and their time is often better spent on activities which can't be handled by non-moderators. So, while each mod does have an unlimited number of close-votes, that being relevant implies the mod has the time to spend evaluating a large number of requests in here, which won't be the case most of the time.
Overall, this means even moderators have an effective limit on how many questions they can/will close.
The benefit of moderator involvement is also proportionally reduced vs what it was when 5 close-votes were required. In other words, by the time the question is posted in here it usually already has 1 close-vote. Thus, a mod acting on a cv-pls is commonly only saving the attention/close-vote from one, maybe two, other people.]
 
holy smokes Mayken... it's getting worse :)
8
 
:)
 
9:29 PM
Yeep, perfect on the way to recovery with this more synthetic response :D
 
On Overall, this means even moderators have an effective limit on how many questions they can/will close. ... two words come to mind, one of which is "Liew."
8
 
You forgot the word "userscripts" :)
 
Now you've gone and summoned him!
 
Would this be a good example of immediate deletion? stackoverflow.com/questions/65134359/…
 
@AdrianMole For me is Lizzard
 
@Dharman I wouldn't say it needs immediate deletion, but it does not qualify to be roomba'd so a del-pls would be fine
 
Since "This is a bug, see <link>" is a valid Answer, is "This is now a feature-request, see <link>" also a valid Answer?
 
@Scratte Personally, I think that would be better as a comment, but I wasn't prepared to raise an NAA on it. Link
 
10:24 PM
@AdrianMole Yes, that's the one I noticed when I took Natty for a walk :) But.. I'm looking for a more clear guidance than "Naah.. not risking a flag" ;)
 
Hmmm. Maybe if they could include a short summary of the bug report, showing its relevance to the question, then it would be better. Just as in other "link-only" cases.
 
I think that is an answer. The bug report or feature request is itself the answer to the question. It's not an answer hidden behind a link.
 
@AdrianMole Ahh.. but I compared it to the "This is a bug", which is sort of the same, no? They're effectively saying "This isn't implemented"
 
It could be improved in subtle ways, but deleting it would be harmful, so it shouldn't be flagged.
Exactly. "This is not currently possible. However, it has been proposed as a new feature ..."
 
So my spider sense (preventing my flag) is working well, then!
 
10:28 PM
I'll have to keep an eye on it. I'm sure it'll get flagged in the queues and deleted in the LQP queue if it's not intercepted.
 
Throwing an upvote on it solves that problem. :-)
If a positively-scored post is deleted through LQP, an automatic mod flag is raised for a review.
@AdrianMole I mean, I don't have some oracle that I consult to get answers to these questions. I just use common sense...
Would the Q&A be more useful if we deleted the link to a relevant bug report/feature request?
Would it be more useful if we converted it to a comment?
 
@CodyGray The problem with common sense is that one needs the right perspective. And I'm sure a few years of that helps a little :)
 
I agree. My remark about "better as a comment" was perhaps a bit hasty. Better to have suggested an edit.
 
@Scratte The problem with common sense is it is not so common.
 
@CodyGray Depends. Is it more likely to get deleted by users or by a moderator handling an NAN comment flag? :)
@CodyGray I know.. but everyone slips up at times. Some thing wasn't considered that led to a bad conclusion or action.
@CodyGray It's against room policy to solicit votes :D Besides.. everyone in the LQP queue can vote on it, no? I know it's a review action in First Posts.
 
10:33 PM
whoa, nice; onmsft.com/news/microsoft-introduces-lambda-functions-for-excel Microsoft is adding custom function support to Excel
 
@TylerH Yay.. lots and lots of new Questions about that on Stack! :)
 
@Scratte You keep trying to delegate things you can do onto other people.
Anyone can vote on it, yes.
The voting wasn't the point. The point was, if you want to be sure that a mod approves community-led deletion through LQP, you can achieve that by upvoting the post, because that will raise an autoflag.
 
Which... if you think the post should not be deleted, arguably it's worth an upvote.
 
@CodyGray TIL ;)
 
10:39 PM
@CodyGray Not sure what you mean.. I will not vote on a post that's about be reviewed. It'll get countered and then I have no options. Once it's countered, the score will be zero, no? Will that raise an autofla?
 
Sigh.
 
@Makyen I think the problem is I’ve been focusing on this issue in terms of having rules to follow, rather than why those rules are framed the way they are. I’m going to change my position on a rewrite of 11.1.3 yet again. The current metric is very easy to evaluate, and changing the wording in any way that makes that more ambiguous is simply not worth it. The small number of posts that this would allow in could be argued on merit anyway.
Also, to expect that changing the wording would significantly impact members’ actions would be optimistic at best. I’m giving too much weight to my own fondness for precise wording again. So yeah, scratch that.
More generally, I realize that several of my suggestions for wording changes, and enforcement of existing wording, have not been framed in the context of the effectiveness of this room in relation to other curation efforts. I participate in this room, and in the tags I follow, but I hardly ever visit the review queues. So I really have no sense of their effectiveness, or lack thereof.
To have informed opinions on policy in this room, it seems I’ll have to participate in that effort as well. I’ll have to decide if that’s worth it to me, I don’t particularly enjoy the queues.
The note about moderator involvement is very interesting. Recently, I had the experience of seeing more than half a dozen of my votes get wasted in quick succession.
The mod in question was happier with thinking of the votes as redundant, rather than wasted. But I’m not entirely convinced; I feel I could have cast votes on posts that would not have otherwise gotten them. Anyway, as you point out, it’s irrelevant, since we can’t/shouldn’t account for mod participation since it can’t be relied upon.
 
Your vote isn't wasted just because it only took two, not three. And if you post something here with no votes on, users will wonder why you're asking for others to vote, if you don't :)
 
^ that
 
Oh dear, fair enough. Not wasted then.
Oh, and thanks for the extremely useful response as usual.
 
10:53 PM
Is my CV wasted on a duplicate if a hammer closes it? No. If I think it's a dupe, I should act accordingly.
 
@cigien To have an opinion, you don't need to be participating elsewhere. Participation in SOCVR is by people with a variety of usage patterns. That other people have a different usage pattern than you do doesn't make your opinion invalid.
 
In all fairness you can look at it a completely different way: When a moderator closed a post you requested closure for, they effectively "free" two other votes for other requests in the room :)
2
 
@Makyen Ok, invalid might be strong, but biased for sure. At least, I don't think the confidence with which I have voiced my opinions on some of these matters are warranted. I'd be more comfortable if I had some knowledge of how those usage patterns are relevant.
 
@Nick dupe too
 
@AdrianMole This might get flak, but yes. If you know a hammer is lurking, leave a link in a comment. Just my opinion, fwiw.
 
11:05 PM
@AndrasDeak you should have hammered it, someone has now posted an answer (what I was desperately trying to avoid)
 
I wouldn't do so in a comment, but I would consider bringing a cv-pls here (if I know there's a suitable hammer recently active). But that's a bit different.
 
What's the objection to leaving a comment?
 
@Nick I was looking for one... ended up closing it as a typo
 
@cigien I think it sets a bad example. If I have the ability to close vote, then I should. Maybe two other 'ordinary' users will see my vote and follow suit ... quicker than waiting for a hammer, sometimes.
 
Oh good point, I didn't think of that at all.
 
11:08 PM
And there's also the appearance of the final close banner. For potentially controversial dupe closures, having one or two other votes, prior to the hammer's, can add a bit of 'weight' to the decision.
 
@AdrianMole Wait, if you left a comment identical to the one that gets generated for you, would that help?
 
@AndrasDeak I see you found one. Maybe we should re-open it so it can be closed properly?
^ joke
 
If/when I earn a hammer (still 28 votes short), I can imagine occasions where I'm not completely sure that it's a dupe. If I see someone else put a CV (maybe a silver-badge), then I would be more comfortable wielding my hammer.
 
@AdrianMole I don't follow. If a hammer is not willing to stand by their unilateral decision, they shouldn't be using their hammer. What additional "weight" does a hammer need?
 
The fact that it is unequivocally unilateral. I'm not always 100% sure about things - even those I use CVs on. Consensus is sometimes a fallback.
 
11:12 PM
You cannot not use the hammer when you have one. You can't close of a duplicate and have others also weigh in on it. So a hammer may just wait until someone else suggests a duplicate.
 
^ Je d'accord!
 
you can edit tags and then non-hammer dupe vote
but that's a bit Scratte-y to do :)
 
@AdrianMole Well, I don't do that. When that happens to me, I simply don't act, regardless of whether others have voted. My gold badge still appears on the banner, and I'm not comfortable with my hammer being in question.
 
@AndrasDeak That's just plain devious.
 
@AndrasDeak I suppose yes, but that seems.. weird. And probably confusing for the Question author. lol!.. Scratte-y :D
 
11:15 PM
Personally I use my hammers most in the close vote queue where I filter on my hammer tags and posts that have already been flagged as dupes
 
@Scratte Yeah, maybe. I don't like it. A hammer gives one an additional responsibility that others don't have. I don't use my hammer on a post unless I would be willing be the only voter. Before I got my hammer, existing votes would bias me for sure.
 
@AndrasDeak he's here :D !!
 
dupe reviews are the worst
 
So.. Nick is not going to hammer it until you put your vote on it first, @cigien :)
@cigien Well, I hope to never get the hammer for the reason of responsibility. I'd use it only if someone or two other users had already voted. The fact that I have answered 1950 noob debug Questions, doesn't make me qualified to hammer posts that doesn't contain the Scanner object ;-)
 
@Scratte lol, you're even avoiding 3k
 
11:18 PM
@Nick To clarify, do you do that just because it's easy to find dupes that way, or also because you don't have to worry about the correctness of the closure as much?
 
it's safe to say that there's no risk of a gold hammer for you
 
@AndrasDeak I'm just not answering questions, but it works very well :)
 
@Scratte which is such a waste of talent!
 
@Vickel I'm not sure. I spend longer than others answering, so I think it's fair to say they're probably better at it. Last time someone answered in 2 minutes. I can't even properly edit a chat message in 2 minutes :D
 
@Scratte Sorry, I had to check your profile to see how much of a hypothetical that was :) I suspect by the time you get a hammer, you'll be comfortable enough to use it in that tag.
 
11:21 PM
@Scratte ^ that
 
@cigien That was hypothetical. My Scanner noob answering count is lower.. which is why I do not have a hammer :)
 
@cigien I do it because it's more efficient. I don't want to spend my day looking at hundreds of posts trying to find ones to hammer, this allows me to use a lot of close votes in one day. I do end up using "Leave Open" a lot though even on those posts as the posted dupes aren't always correct.
 
@Scratte I don't like to write FGITW questions either, at all, but if you look in your programming tags you are comfortable in, then there is always a couple of questions worth an answer, and no rush needed
 
@Nick Ok, that makes complete sense, thanks. I'm very fond of the hammer privilege, and I don't like it being misused, so I'm sorry if my question was a bit aggressive.
 
@cigien no worries - I took your question in the spirit you intended.
 
11:26 PM
@Vickel I've done that :) Looked at post that are 6 months old :) I just think Roomba steals some of them before I find them.
 
@Scratte I said "some" ... a couple
 
I could make a joke out of that, you know :)
 
@Scratte try me, I love jokes :)
 
OK. Here goes: "a couple" get's me covered for a year on my current answer rate :D
 
that's why I said
Vickel
23:19
@Scratte which is such a waste of talent!
 
11:31 PM
@Vickel Thanks :) I'll finish my current project and see if I can change it then :)
 
@Scratte and hey, I'm not hassling you! take your time and contribute you feel most comfortable at
@Scratte well, you never finish a current project, define current
 
@Vickel Restudying logic. It has been a few days on hold though..
Ohh.. current, just means what I started, but didn't finish :D
 
@Scratte that's what I was referring to :)
 
Didn't you take a break from answering too at a time? Or did I misremember that?
 
@cigien For some context, part of the reason this room was created is that the close vote review queue was hovering over 10k questions. It became sadly apparent that far too many questions that were in need of closure were never going to reach that state, so the room was created to give the questions in the highest need an extra boost of attention.
Later, too, the close vote review queue started "aging away" close votes that weren't actioned within a certain period of time, which addressed the symptom (too many flagged questions, not enough closures), but didn't address the root cause.
The aging away is still a thing. But now, the threshold for number of close votes required has been lowered to 3 (from 5), which is a huge improvement.
 
11:39 PM
@Scratte If you look at my profile, you'll see I answer, if I have time to spend. But then I loose interest to answer quite often, as my niche tag is a php framework and it is really hard to find new "good" questions, so mostly I spend time to CV.
 
@CodyGray Thanks. I know some of these things, but it's pretty hard to grasp the bigger picture. There's a lot of history to catch up on.
 
Indeed. About 200,000 years, if you limit yourself only to modern Homo sapiens.
 
@Vickel Oh.. that's not even a self-imposed limitation.
What Cody maybe means to say is: There are only 200,000 meta posts you need to read.
 
@Scratte tag-imposed limitation :)
 
11:52 PM
@Vickel You could join Adrian in learning Haskell :D
 
@Scratte Nah. Most of them aren't worth reading.
 
@Scratte and we'll write a program which will fly us to the moon!
 
@CodyGray Annoyingly, votes are not a good metric for deciding what to read on meta.
 
Wondering what to do with this NATO, claiming it's a "fixed version" of the one just above it w/o any further clarification/justification. Any ideas (not a Java expert)?
 
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

« first day (2569 days earlier)      last day (1234 days later) »