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5:01 AM
@cigien To be fair, "translate this code for me" questions tend to be very bad fits and need to be closed. But there, the close reason is too broad (which was recently, unfortunately, renamed to "needs more focus"). But when you're talking about a single idiom, that's definitely not too broad.
 
@CodyGray It's a matter of opinion that the version I recommended is more readable. I know that's a bit silly, but that wasn't the point I wanted to make to that user. I wanted to point out that the quality of my answer should not be used to judge the quality of the question. My argument has fallen on deaf ears unfortunately.
 
Yeah, that's just nuts.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, I didn't want to come out and ask you, but since you mention it, that question is on-topic, right?
 
I mean, I was also very annoyed with your answer. It took me far longer than it should have to figure out what sv was. And once I did, I remained annoyed that in a single-line code snippet, you decided to abbrev.
But still, that didn't reduce the quality of the question. :-)
@cigien Yeah, it is... Trying to decide whether I should hammer it open again or not.
I guess you can imagine how, after a certain point, regardless of how strong your opinions might be, you no longer want to engage, since everything turns into a fight.
 
@CodyGray No, please don't. You already undeleted it, which I'm grateful for. I don't want it to seem like I have a mod on my side or something. I'd like to argue this one on merit, if possible.
 
5:05 AM
Frankly, I find it frustrating. The amount of sheer unanswerable garbage we have coming in on this site every few minutes is staggering. You can't find a soul who can make a coherent argument against closing any of that. And most of it goes without getting closed because of the volume. But yet, we constantly get into these stupid arguments about whether borderline questions need to be closed, questions that aren't harming anything.
 
@CodyGray Absolutely. Fortunately, I'm not at that stage yet.
 
I only got to that stage after getting a really big hammer diamond.
It changes things. As you just said...
 
Yeah, with great power comes great ... and all that jazz.
@CodyGray Ok, that's a good point. My answer needs an edit. Thanks for the feedback.
 
I would have made the edit myself, but I didn't want anyone to think you had a moderator on your side. :-)
 
Haha, thanks. And very annoyed? Because of a namespace alias? Someone's prickly ;)
 
5:09 AM
Or prone to overstatement.
But, yeah, also prickly.
 
Good, I like prickly. I edited the answer. I agree, it's better now.
 
I can honestly say I've never used anything from std::views. Not even sure I knew it existed. And I'm not sure I'm missing anything. I don't find that especially readable, either. Not that I find the Python code in the question at all readable.
I have grown a bit fond of MATLAB's triplet syntax, though.
But that's really just a highly compressed version of a for loop.
Wouldn't you prefer for (int i = (n - 1); i --> 0; )?
 
How up to date are you on language versions? I know you do a lot of embedded stuff, so probably nothing too modern.
 
That's my idiomatic way of doing a backwards for loop. Which I've done... probably once. Because the number of times you need to do a backwards for loop are pretty much countable on one finger.
@cigien On the contrary. Doing embedded stuff gives me even more flexibility with tooling. I am in complete control of it, so I can stay fairly modern if I wish. I just use the GCC toolchain; I'm not locked in to any specific vendor's out-of-date crap. And I also get a better optimizer. So I've been using C++17 for the past couple of years.
But like all C++ programmers, I use the parts of C++ that I am familiar and comfortable with. I have gradually expanded that over the years. I do a bit more template metaprogramming now than I did back 3 or 4 years ago, but still I try not to do anything insane, lest someone other than me has to maintain the code.
 
@bad_coder "Is there any API in existence that can recognize objects within images and give you tags?" -> resource recommendation, off-topic. "Is there any API in Microsoft Azure Cloud that lets you shut down an instance?" -> how-to question, on-topic
 
5:19 AM
@CodyGray That's a very good point. I do find the classic loops very easy to read. But that's because I'm biased by having learned those loops when I was a kid. It's second nature now. But as a grad-student I TA for undergrads a lot, who have either a python background, or no programming background at all. And they consistently find the more functional style constructs easier to understand.
 
@RyanM It's also worth mentioning that, before you vote to close something as a resource recommendation, you need to first consider whether the close reason would become inapplicable if you trivially rephrased the question to a "How do I...?" question.
@cigien What better time to learn than as undergrads, though? :-p
 
@RyanM ok, I'll carefully mind the services then!!
 
@CodyGray agreed, mostly, with the small caveat that arguably "how do I recognize objects within images?" has now become too broad, rather than a resource recommendation. But yes, if rephrasing it to "How do I..." results in an on-topic question, that's a good rule of thumb.
 
@RyanM Yes, in the specific example that you cherry-picked, it does indeed become too broad. :-)
 
@CodyGray noted!!
 
5:23 AM
@CodyGray Templates are the best part of the language ;) But if you're not constrained to older versions, you should check out C++20. std::views is fluff really, ignore that. Have you been following the co-routines, or modules stuff at all? It's a game changer, though I haven't read a lot of the proposals or wording myself.
 
@cigien I was super excited about modules years ago, but then I kept getting disappointed, so I stopped paying attention.
I have not at all kept up with C++20.
I'm way too swamped with work now to consider it, much less consider upgrading toolchains.
My biggest gripe about C++ is the implicit integer conversion rules. I think that's the only thing I dislike about the language, and I dislike it strongly. But nobody's going to change that now. :-(
 
Sure, no rush. But when you do get have the time, you should upgrade. Not for a half year at least I would say, so you're fine. And if you have any language questions, feel free to ask. I enjoy this stuff, if you hadn't noticed already.
 
I pretty much learn new C++ features as I discover that I need them to make my code more readable or expressive. So, in other words, I need to have a motivation.
 
implicit conversion is a pain, for sure. Though I think there's a proposal for opaque typedefs that's in the pipeline for C++23, which should help mitigate some of the issues.
 
Honestly, a vast majority of the time, I am content with simply a better C. Something that has better type safety, supports basic generic programming with templates, has actual constants, and supports RAII (the latter begin the #1 motivator for C++ over C, by my standards).
But I hate to admit that, because then you'll think I'm some kind of luddite who doesn't write cool stuff. And that's not entirely true.
 
5:29 AM
I don't get it. You say "better C", but then describe C++ in a nutshell. That's basically it. What cool stuff are you referring to?
 
Heh. I described the basic working set of C++. Not every obscure corner of the language.
 
Don't get me started. Using every obscure corner of the language is not "cool". And that's coming from someone who absolutely loves the obscure corners.
 
How often do you use stuff like std::forward_as_tuple?
Yeah, OK. Agree.
There is a use for some of this stuff, as long as it's carefully cordoned off in a library, with adequate documentation. This answer by Yakk is the basis of a character type literal dispatch utility in my current codebase. It gets the job done, but it's not something that I consider to be at all readable.
But it makes the client code readable, type-safe, and efficient, which is its redeeming value.
 
Yeah, exactly. C++ is a language that's great for library writers. They can make the client code be as nice as they want. Is it easy for the library writers? No, but they can do it, and with zero overhead, which is amazing.
 
I am a person who regularly looks at the assembly output generated by my compiler. So, yeah, zero overhead is very important.
 
5:37 AM
You don't answer much at all, now that you're a mod?
 
No. Don't have the time. There are always flags to process, and always advice to offer on Meta, so when I'm on the site, I mostly do that. I feel I can provide more value by doing that than I can answering questions. There are plenty of other good programmers who can provide high-quality answers to programming questions. There are very few other diamonds who can handle the things I can handle.
If I can get the garbage out of the way so that other people can find the questions to answer, then I'm happy with that.
 
Yeah, that's fair. Not that I know what exactly you do as a mod. Different than other mods I mean.
 
Well, I'm not trying to say I'm all that different from other mods. Just that there's only 20-something mods, and a zillion users who can answer questions.
 
Ah, you said "very few other diamonds who can handle ..." so I assumed you did some different stuff.
 
Very few other diamonds because there aren't that many diamonds!
There are mods (cough Martijn) who can be both outstanding and highly-active moderators and literal machines when it comes to answering programming questions. I cannot be that person.
The job I currently have simply does not permit it. I am essentially the sole embedded software and hardware engineer on all of our projects, which works out to about 10 right now, 3 of which are brand-new systems being built from the ground up. We were desperately understaffed before COVID-19. Having to work remotely has only made things twice as bad.
 
5:42 AM
Martijn is very impressive with their answer rate, that's true. Hmm, you didn't strike me as the sort of person to misuse "literally" though ;)
 
Wasn't a misuse. Speculation that he's a bot has not yet been conclusively disproven.
 
Haha, duly noted.
Sorry to hear the job's been harder post COVID-19. A lot of programmers, so I hear, are not too affected by having to stay at home.
 
Yeah, most programmers wouldn't be. I'm different. I'm just as likely to be sitting in front of an oscilloscope as I am a debugger.
It was a big culture shock to me when I started this job. I had no idea how to read datasheets, much less use an oscilloscope. I spent a while bucking against the idea, feeling like that shouldn't be my job, since I'm a software engineer. Someone else should write the spec and handle the hardware side of things.
 
Ah, I'm very much the opposite. Software I can understand. Hardware on the other hand has always been a black box to me. Nothing seems to fit in the right sockets, wires get tangled up, the whole thing's a mess :p
Oh, you haven't been doing hardware for long then?
 
Problem was, there was no one else to do that part of things either.
No... When I started, I had a boss who was an electrical engineer. I learned a bit from him, but not as much as I should have, because I didn't really see that as part of my job. I just handled the embedded software. That boss has been gone for almost 2 years now, and I've basically taken over his job ever since. So I am now doing his job and mine.
Previously, as may be obvious from my history here, I was a WinAPI expert, not a hardware guy.
 
5:48 AM
Yeah, I saw mentions of that in the transcript earlier today.
 
Not only am I not an electrical engineer, I'm not even a software engineer by training. My degrees are in history and microbiology. I'm a weird guy. :-)
 
I've noticed ;) Which reminds me of what you said, about SO being easier for me because I'm weird. I think something should (can?) be done about making it easier for those who are, well, less weird. SO can be very unwelcoming to newcomers, which is something I only realized after starting to do some curation in this room.
 
I say this to people a lot, so pardon me if you've already heard it, but... the central problem is that the SO platform/software fails to properly set expectations for new users. People come here thinking it's a help desk, that we're here to help them specifically, and that's not the point at all. It's merely a happy side-effect that we help the person who asks the question. Our real goal is to build up a knowledge base of high-quality answers to the long tail of programming questions.
 
History and microbiology is an odd combo though.
 
This is why we don't allow low-quality questions, why we don't allow questions that can't be answered objectively, why we don't allow questions that attract spam, why we have such a focus on curation, why we don't allow discussion/chatting in comments, etc. It's also why we edit out conversational things from posts, like "thank you" and "I hope this helps!" Our model is much more like Wikipedia than a help desk.
New users don't understand that, and it doesn't help that they aren't told as much by the system, other than a short line in the tour.
@cigien Long story. It's what worked out. Not quite as odd as you might think, though. Think history of disease. But it wasn't planned that elegantly.
 
6:02 AM
The tour is pretty useless, I'll grant that. I suppose it's difficult to have a welcoming tone, when we actually want to say they're not welcome. Or at least, not welcome to treat SO like a help-desk.
 
Right!
That's the problem! We keep falling over ourselves trying to tell people how welcome they are, when, in reality, they're not all that welcome.
We have a goal, and our goal supersedes what their individual goal is. We do strongly believe that we have found a way to make those two goals overlap, thus creating a major positive good, but if those two goals are in conflict, our larger goal wins.
The platform does a terrible job of educating users about things as simple as what downvotes mean.
 
I don't know about specifics like down-votes, but take the first para of the tour "With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming." The "with your help" is not true really. It should be, "you might be able to help, but read x y and z for what that entails".
 
Eh... it is true as written.
Askers are critical to our success.
But like all "help", it needs to be, um, helpful.
 
Well, yes, but that's the issue. It's not made clear what "helpful" means.
 
If I tell you that I'm trying to, with your help, feed the homeless, and you bring me a big pile of sticks and mud... that's not helpful.
 
6:10 AM
Right, exactly. I assume, as usual, I'm not the first person to have had this thought :p There are probably a bunch of meta posts discussing this.
 
Yes.
My Meta history is at least as interesting as my main site history. See, e.g., this.
 
Damn, you're fast. I was halfway through typing "don't add filler text..." and bam, you added a comment.
 
Wasn't until, what, 2017? 2018? that we finally improved our "Ask a Question" page. And it still doesn't go near far enough.
 
Thanks for the link. And I see at least half a dozen linked posts that are relevant. This should make for some interesting reading.
 
@cigien For some fun context, see this rant of mine way back in 2013.
I have considered reposting that same feature request about every 6 months since.
 
6:20 AM
I want to scream every time I see a nonsense paraphrased error message. Someone saw "An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine" and decided that "An existing connection was software controlled aborted by the host computer?" was an appropriate title for their question.
 
@RyanM Probably, the actual error message was already in use as the title for a question, so the system "forced" them to change it.
 
Hmm, I like the idea of a minimum word count, but isn't that similar in spirit to regex checks on the text? Which I understand you oppose.
 
Harder to circumvent.
 
Ah, true.
 
I don't know. I don't have a perfect solution, obviously.
 
6:24 AM
@RyanM could happen if you get the error message in another language and have to translate it (back) to English
 
The number of times I've seen someone post code as an image because the system lets them do that, but forbids them from posting it as text, is maddening. It should require the same amount of text regardless of if code is included.
 
@RyanM I hear your objection, and I raise you a "link to an image formatted as a code block".
 
@tripleee Ah, could be. Good point. The original error message would still be useful, though, since it can be searched, whereas the translated one really cannot.
 
@CodyGray OP obliged here.
 
@CodyGray I'm not sure I follow; "link to an image formatted as a code block" is exactly what I'm complaining about
 
6:26 AM
@RyanM I read that you were complaining about an image of code, whereas I was talking about applying code formatting to a URL that links to an image.
 
@eyllanesc What's up with the answer on that?
 
Hey I have seen a low quality question which is trying to write us code with three upvotes shall I post the link
 
@CodyGray oh I see. But if it required the same amount of non-code text regardless, there would be far less incentive to do those shenanigans.
 
@cigien Some people answer off-topic questions.
 
6:28 AM
And I suppose it's related to the question. Ok then.
 
@Rice If you believe that the question should be closed because it does not meet Stack Overflow requirements, then, yes, you can post a request in here that it be evaluated for closure. First, please read our FAQ: socvr.org
 
@cigien I don't understand you, the post has been deleted
 
@eyllanesc Sorry, I didn't mean to ping you specifically. I just clicked on your request to indicate that I was asking about that post.
 
I was about to flag something on that Python post, but I see Cody's already spotted it.
 
6:30 AM
@RyanM I haven't. It just got downvoted.
I looked, and I didn't see anything suspicious about the votes....
 
@Rice though please review the instructions Cody linked to above
 
@CodyGray errr, nope, never mind, I got confused.
I managed to open the same window twice and thought it was a different window.
 
@CodyGray Why is that a rant? Apart from the "and should we care?" at the end, it seems quite sober.
 
@RyanM Well, it was a different window. :-)
@cigien You surely have noticed my snarky tone by now.
 
looking at the "Ask Question" page as a low-rep user, the instructions in the side bar are really good; but of course when you are in the middle of something, you probably don't even notice them
 
6:33 AM
@CodyGray :D
 
who the heck is upvoting these...both have 2 upvotes
 
God knows
 
God has a side gig as a Stack Exchange CM?
 
Nah, he got fired some time back.
2
Wasn't sufficiently "welcoming".
6
 
@CodyGray I don't disagree, and I know it says it has to be from a low rep user, but I couldn't resist seeing if I had a counter example. Here's one of my questions with about 25 words total, including the compiler diagnostic :)
 
6:40 AM
@cigien As I think you now know, there are plenty of folks who will tell you that question is off-topic and should be closed, because it can be answered simply by reading the documentation language specification.
 
Ok, that's funny. But you're right, after fighting those battles for a while, I'm afraid that's just going to make me sad.
 
The kind of humor at which I am most proficient is the kind that makes you laugh while also making you sad.
More fun, I'm afraid, @cigien: your question may be a duplicate.
 
No, if I just asked "is a label allowed in a constexpr function" then ok. But I'm showing a compiler variance, so I don't think it's a dupe.
Though I'm not sure if you're even serious.
Also, why is that post getting up-votes? Is this a SOCVR-effect? ;)
 
I'm not entirely sure that your showing a compiler variation is enough to make the question not a duplicate.
It still has the same answer: labels aren't allowed.
 
Actually that answer on the proposed target is answering the title "what is allowed in a constepxr function", while the question body is asking "can a constexpr function contain a definition of a variable of non-literal type?" If anything, that title should be edited. The answer coincidentally mentions the other clauses in the section.
 
6:52 AM
Yeah, I just based it on the title. I didn't look all that carefully.
 
Now I want to edit that title, but there are several other posts linked to it. I'll have to look at them closely, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are mis-dupes because of how generic the target title is. I'll have to do that when I'm more awake though. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
It's great when all I have to do is point out problems. That's way easier than solving them.
6
 
It's called delegating, right? ;)
 
is this an answer? seems more like a comment to me
 
@Ruli it barely is
 
@Ruli It might be a rhetorical question. Try rephrasing to make it a statement. That makes it kind of an answer, albeit not a very good one.
 
@Ruli Rhetorical questions are considered answers.
 
thanks all for replies
 
8:32 AM
(doesn't mean it can't be improved though, it surely can)
 
@MarcoBonelli as per the FAQ, please avoid oneboxes
 
@tripleee my bad
 
thanks for the quick fix
 
cody already improved it, will act same in future
 
Yeah, I have no idea if it's the correct answer, but it's definitely something that can be edited to make it look like an answer.
Incorrect answers can/should be handled by downvotes, not flags.
 
8:36 AM
yes that was what I did
 
 
1 hour later…
9:58 AM
Honestly, what is the point. Have been suspended another 7 days because I continued to try and clean-up the tags I follow which I've done for years. But while I've been unavailable not a single question has been closed when about 90% should have been, why do I even bother...
I've also been told to not vote or flag a "specific users" questions because it will likely get me suspended again, so what is the point in trying to maintain quality when everything is against you?
 
I have no insight into what got you suspended but I'll note that I have abstained from flagging some of the posts you brought up here ... maybe be a bit more lenient? IIRC there were some less than obvious duplicates but I obviously don't know vbscript at all
4
 
Basically in a nutshell, got called out of meta, defended myself, explained nothing is targeted (because it's not), continued to do the job (which shouldn't be biased) but got told I was being suspended for continuing to flag "specific users" questions. It just completely goes against the whole "judge a question on the merits of the question not the person asking the question". I now have to actively avoid their questions for fear of repercussions.
It's just disheartening, think I'm done trying to maintain stuff, to be honest. It's more trouble than it's worth and no one else in tags I follow seems bothered.
 
@Lankymart I don't know VBScript, but isn't this asking how to detect the code page, while the target is asking how to change it?
Overall, I'd encourage taking breaks for your own mental health. I tried doing 40 close reviews in [android] and using every vote I had every day with a similar mentality that if I wasn't doing it, it wouldn't get done, and got kind of burned out doing it.
I've since just done them here and there when I've got time, and spent more time trying to answer questions and find good content rather than bad.
 
10:24 AM
@RyanM It's more the answer on the duplicate is the same.
@RyanM The other daft thing is they've accepted the answer which is PowerShell (not VBScript) so how relevant VBScript even was on this question is questionable.
 
@Lankymart yeah the double-tag is...questionable. Might merit removal given the answer.
(I'm not going to because I'm unfamiliar with the subject matter, though - I defer to SMEs there)
 
@Lankymart I notice you are still 2/3rds to a gold badge in vbscript; once you get the hammer, duplicates will become much easier to handle ... but even if you put in a concerted effort, it will be several months at least, especially if the tag doesn't get a lot of (informed) upvotes
 
10:43 AM
To write code
 
@tripleee yeah, don't see that happening very soon. The effort vs reward in that tag is hardly worth it, I hardly answer now and when I do most of the time it bites me in the ass. If I did get gold badge I'd be the first gold badge holder for that tag on SO.
 
reminds me, I've been planning to suggest on meta that there should be a different color badge in low-traffic tags (copper? rust? platinum? poo?) with the Mjølnir privilege
4
 
11:14 AM
@Good that is not a close reason. It might lack focus or is unclear but that is about it.
 
11:24 AM
 
@tripleee Probably not a good idea
 
@tripleee It would be fun to have a rust tag.
But I don't see the point. The system could instead fine-tune the thresholds for reaching the badges we have now.
 
There are only 20k questions in rust?
 
@Dharman It's still a relatively low traffic tag. But it has the highest closure rate of a programming language tag.
 
I find that hard to believe
Some stupid PHP library has 26k questions and the whole language has only 20k
 
11:35 AM
my favorite tag is , it only has a few hundred questions network-wide
it would seem weird to award a gold badge in that, but having a custodian would be useful
 
@Dharman SEDE query
@Dharman That isn't a great comparison, considering that PHP existed before Stack Overflow and Rust 1.0 appeared in 2015.
OTOH it could suggest that one ecosystem has better documentation than the other, hence attracting less questions.
 
@E_net4isshreed HAHA, when you compare it to mysqli: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1336604/…
 
@Dharman Is that a programming language? Or just an API? :)
 
It's an extension
 
Doesn't count. :<
 
11:44 AM
Yeah, it's still not a fair comparison
Rust has very little legacy baggage. PHP has thousands of bad tutorials online. I was trying to find at least one good tutorial and I could not find any. So now imagine all these people learning from them, not understanding anything and then asking again on SO. With Rust you have brand new tutorials and people find the information they need online. PHP is used by wannabe programmers while I imagine Rust is used by people somewhat familiar with programming
 
Yes, the target audience might play a role.
 
11:59 AM
@Dharman let's not forget the innumerable SQL tutorials that tell everyone to put comma separated data into their columns!
 
@Nick Didn't you write such an answer recently?
 
@Nick Never get's old that...
 
@Dharman I did tell someone that they should ignore that recommendation and construct their tables properly...
 
12:47 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels as often remarked before, the Smoke Detector alerts are already a request to review and flag if indeed the suspect message is spam
perhaps you would like to be able to provide feedback directly to Smoke Detector from here?
 
Does anyone have an idea why this Answer with a link to official documentation was removed?
 
1:06 PM
Morning
 
1:19 PM
@Scratte probably because it's pretty much a "link only answer"??
 
@Lankymart But asking for official documentation is on-topic. And providing such is not considered NAA despite it being just a link.
 
1:35 PM
@Scratte how is asking for official documentation on-topic? Surely that comes under asking for a tutorial or off-site resource?
 
@Lankymart but it can't be used to justify spam, which is the chief reason for the close reason
 
@Lankymart Asking for "official" tutorials/download repos etc is OK, as per Shog9
 
Don't agree, just search, read a book...ask on quora, just not here.
 
@Lankymart Not agreeing is not relevant. There's consensus that it's on-topic.
 
You mean from a guy that no longer works there, yeah that's a consensus!?!
 
1:40 PM
@Lankymart that he was fired doesn't mean that everything he did when he worked here is now moot.
 
@Lankymart I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that any consensus that was born from someone who is no longer here or no longer active is to not be considered? Should we delete all the posts form users that hasn't been active the past 6 months too?
 
@Scratte that would be a fun social experiment to perform on a parallel universe.
 
@JohnDvorak We could keep asking and answering duplicates all the time! :) They'd be continuously deleted.. at the end none of us would have more than 10 posts but 10 million reputation points :D
 
why do you think the reputation from deleted posts should stick? :)
 
1:44 PM
Ahh.. yes, you have a point. That one keeps reputation points from a 60 days old 3-scored post was probably proposed and implemented by someone that's no longer active.
But.. I think the founders of Stack are also no longer active, so I guess Stack would be moot too :D
 
At their heart they are opinion based questions and what is posted might be right at the time but over time the links change (especially with MS they just archive docs and nuke every official reference to something). There are arguments to and for them but I wouldn't say a consensus.
 
@Adriaan Note, that Emo answer there is very unpopular
 
@Braiam exactly
"I would argue that a request for a resource is perfectly fine as long as the request is specific." -62 votes, is that a consensus??
 
Shog goes far enough that he quotes the close reason there saying "Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it."
 
@Braiam sure, but that doesn't relate to "Where can I find the official docs of language X", but is a pure library request. As Cody mentions in the first comment there, the correct response for this answer would be a "How to do X" question.
 
1:50 PM
So, if anything he's saying that better stay clear of doing such clear cut request.
 
The answer is not even related to the Question. No wonder is got a low score. Ahh.. ok. It is.. just not as a request for official documentation.
 
I prefer "official" resources to be included in the tag wiki's. There's a higher bar of entry to edit those (so no shady links) and one would expect the cheese to not move everyday (looking at MS and Apple)
@Adriaan If you are looking for the documentation, the tag wiki is the perfect place to link to those.
 
@Braiam I don't disagree with that
 
@Braiam so close as Resource Request and put a link to the tag wiki? That I actually like.
 
:thinking:
it would work, but it still feels a bit unfair
 
1:54 PM
:screaming into the void because my idea isn't as unpopular:
@JohnDvorak How so?
 
@Braiam that's not how Discord emoji work ;)
 
And that's why I don't use emojis :D
 
:thumbsup:
 
Humans expressions/emotions are too complex to synthesize in a single character
 
@Braiam the question would then prompt an objective improvement and yet the asker would receive a signal to never do that again
 
1:56 PM
@JohnDvorak I mean, at some point people have to read the tag wiki's :D
If you link it enough, it should appear in google.
 
but does it?
 
Well, I missed the conversation about official resource requests, but the conclusion to that is common sense
 
@JohnDvorak According to Shog9'11, yes
10 mins ago, by Braiam
@Adriaan Note, that Emo answer there is very unpopular
 
@Braiam That answer had other problems, mind you. It conflated "official resources" with "best resources", which is subjective.
 
@E_net4isshreed Which is why Shog "describe the problem" quote from the close reason didn't receive the ire of meta
Emo is a blanket acceptance of any resource request. Shog says stay clear of that hot pile of mess
 
2:02 PM
@Braiam Why are you repeating your own message from 10 minutes ago?
I remember one post about a particular Question. I think it was a main post about java documentation and the meta post discussed that with the consensus that it was fine.
 
Typically people taking advice out of context...
 
@tripleee I think the solution there is privileges awarded based on a tag association system like the synonym system. Tags can be classified as 'language' tags and then other tags can be 'associated' with those tags. E.g. and ; users with sufficient rep in could have expanded curation abilities on questions tagged with , for example. Wouldn't get everything, but would help out a ton for sure.
@triplee For low-activity tags that stand alone, I think maybe a silver badge with gold lining (a border) to indicate 'this is a low-activity tag but relative to the activity, this user has achieved gold badge status (aka you earn a silver badge in the tag that has fewer than 5k or 10k questions).
or maybe gold with silver lining instead, since there's already meaning behind the phrase 'the silver lining'
 
I'm not sure when the nickel badge should be awarded; I was thinking maybe that would be a good one to get at 50k
at that point you probably have at least one tag where you wish you had more privileges
 
why nickel?
 
2:08 PM
@JohnDvorak To make one allergic faster?
 
then a peanut star would be better :P
 
I propose: Pyrite.
 
I'm still undecided on the color. I was under the impression that old Western sheriffs' stars were made of tin but quick googling suggests they were nickel
 
Tinted aluminum?
 
@tripleee they were probably made out of whatever metal was most readily available and cheapest
 
2:18 PM
it was hard to google because there are so many sites selling modern replicas; the one which was definitely genuine was nickel
 
@tripleee Is that a programming question?
 
2:34 PM
@cigien doesn't really look like it
 
Thanks. Needs clarity seemed wrong, the question was clear enough.
 
2:47 PM
 
@eyllanesc That shouldn't be deleted. It's not even the correct target, the OP is specifically asking about serde_json. And I can't find a target for joining Rust enums so they work with serde.
 
3:03 PM
@cigien the comment is just saying this should be reopened. You think the user with 20k score in made a mistake?
 
Yes. It's my comment. And I explained why. I'm not 100% sure, but I am disputing the closure.
 
the question to me seems to be covered by the duplicate, regardless of the fact that it is eventually going to be used with serde (which I dont think is particularly relevant)
 
The answer uses #[serde(untagged)] and says it makes serialization transparent. That's not covered in the target.
 
@TylerH Also, before the edit to the title, the serde bit was a footnote. Reasonable thing to miss. The title itself would make it seem like a dupe.
 
3:30 PM
@TylerH Should I retract my R/A flag on that last SD report? I raised it when OP rolled back my first edit.
Never mind, it's handled as "disputed".
 
@cigien nah
 
3:49 PM
@dippas needs details/clarity is the common close vote reason for non-english btb.
 
@Adriaan I think Dharman also uses custom for those. It's probably also easier for the user to understand why it was closed.
 
I don't get it. Often when I see people posting in Russian/Portuguese/Spanish, they also have an account on the relevant locale?!? Why post over here (presumably through an automatically translated browser) rather than at the correct locale?
@Scratte might be. I prefer the pre-fab reasons, and leave a separate comment mentioning the English part and any potential locale sites
 
@Adriaan The other sites are small and they're less likely to get Answers there.
@Adriaan Right, but then we're divided on the issue and there's no way that is more correct :)
I've only ever used "Needs details or clarity" because I do not have the custom option.
 
@Scratte sure, but then they're supposed to know which of the two locales they're on. That's what confuses me most. Of course the traffic here is much higher than on pt.SO, but their site is green...
 
Some times people post their programming problem on meta. Some times users just get confused.
 
3:56 PM
Any chance that they get q-banned on foreign se and then try their luck here without realizing that we won't be able to read their question?
 
@JohnDvorak Mhm, I can't judge Q-bans, as I can't see those of course. But in most cases they have old(-ish, couple of months usually) posts on either locale. So again, they do know the difference.
 
I think it's more likely to get Question banned on Stack Overflow and then try ones luck on the smaller sites. The other sites seems to be more interested in saving posts.
 
interested, or desperate? :P
 
I's say interested & helpful :)
 
4:01 PM
@NathanOliver Can you trash this request please? The target list has been edited to include the right target.
 
Strangely the user that posted the delete request for that post hasn't responded to you.
 
Yes, unfortunate. The closure is correct, but I still think it shouldn't be deleted. It has serde in the title, which the target doesn't. That's a useful signpost I think.
 
@cigien I don't think there is a policy on it for the room. I find it unfortunate.
But at least you can always pop in a un-delete vote when the request is complete :)
 
@Scratte Yeah, definitely no policy about it. Which kind of makes sense, users are not expected to hang around any longer than they want.
 
4:09 PM
@cigien I don't think that's a good argument. I think everyone should be accountable for their requests here.
 
Yes, "should", but policy requires some enforceability, which doesn't seem practical in this case.
 
It does in a sense that a request can be binned if someone questions it and the requester doesn't respond. If one posts just before logging out, and never responds, one can always respond later and re-post it.
 
Really? I don't see wording to that effect in the FAQ. Do you know where it is roughly?
 
@cigien There is none. It was a suggestion by me.. just now :)
 
Let's not over regulate everything. Nobody dies when a request goes to the bin wrongly.
 
4:15 PM
@Scratte Oh :p If you make the proposal, I'll second it ;)
 
@rene That seems to be the opposite of what we're talking about :)
 
I agree with rene on this fwiw. I'm a big fan of regulation, but this doesn't seem necessary. And it has potential for needless contention among members, which isn't worth it.
 
@Scratte that's not a requirement we want to enforce (and in fact some people never actually join the room but send requests here via userscript)
 
@Scratte Yes, I thought I better step in before it is too late ... ;)
 
if enough users and/or an RO disagree with a request strongly enough, it can get binned anyway without the original requestor's input
 
4:19 PM
@cigien I don't make proposals. I just have ideas and word them in a way that makes everyone hate them. Others are better at phrasing things so the ideas get popular.
 
Now that you've admitted to it, all your ideas are implicit proposals then ;)
 
Hey, I just asked [this] (stackoverflow.com/questions/65000896/…) question about networking. It's a question about how I can do something, so I can't really provide an MCVE. I just edited it to make it clearer. Is there any other way I can improve the question and get it reopened?
 
That's probably not accurate. I do not think pyrite is a good name for a non-gold hammer :)
 
Is this actually a programming question?
 
@ArunParolikkal the close reason suggests it is too broad.
@cigien no it is not a programming question
 
4:24 PM
@TylerH yep, that's why I edited it to be clearer and more concise. Is that it then?
 
@ArunParolikkal Well, not sure how much code is behind that link, but it may be worth including that code in the question rather than behind a link
 
@ArunParolikkal It still does not make a specific programming problem. The subject is too broad for the Q&A format that we have here.
 
@ArunParolikkal I think there are two main things I would fix. First, I would put the code itself into the question. If it is too long, thats the point. It should be reduced to a minimal form. Secondly, it might be that the question itself is too much about general networking concepts for SO, although I'm not informed enough on the domain to make that determination myself.
 
@cigien I'm not sure. If I program something by pressing buttons, am I not still programming? I can think of Oracle Forms and Reports.
 
@Scratte No, you're manually providing inputs to a program
aka 'using'
 
4:27 PM
@TylerH Oh. I thought I was using a tool exclusively used by programmers.
 
not 'programming'
@Scratte unity3d questions have to be about programming/scripting within unity3d (like all tools questions)
this question appears to be about something in unity3d completely separate from scripting/programming
It'd be on-topic on GameDev (or Superuser)
 
@TylerH I do not think that is correct. When the tool's settings goes into some weird mode, it's a perfectly valid Question to ask how to make it go back to "normal" or how to get everything displayed in green in Eclipse.
 
@TylerH Yeah, but I wasn't sure of that, so I voted with custom "not programming" instead.
 
@Scratte If the tool in question is a programming tool like an IDE, then ostensibly all questions about it will be in-scope as 'programming'-related questions
 
I'm not debating this particular Question btw. I know nothing of unity.
 
4:29 PM
@TylerH and @code11 It isn't a great amount of code, but I didn't include it because it isn't an attempt from my part to solve this specific problem. The code is just a demonstration of what I'd use within a local network (as opposed to over the internet). I guess it would be best to remove the code entirely. Yeah I guess the question doesn't ask a specific question about a snippet of code. I guess Software Engineering stack exchange would be a better place to ask this.
 
however if a tool is not primarily used for programming, but can be, like Unity3d, then you need to make sure your question is about a programming use case.
For another example, not all Excel questions are on-topic on Stack Overflow, but some are, because Excel can be used for programming w/ VBA.
 
@TylerH So you're saying my already typed out Question about how to change the margin in Microsoft Word is not on topic, even if I use it to type all my programs? :)
 
@Scratte yes
 
That is unfortunate, because the margins have set themselves to be to wide that there's only room for int i = on a line and then I have to type the 1; on the next time.
Perhaps having a font of 72 isn't helping.
 
wim
4:45 PM
wonder why this was deleted? stackoverflow.com/a/9977956/674039
it is 100% wrong and should be downvoted - but I don't usually see mods take the liberty of outright deleting wrong answers (even though I often wish they would!)
 
@wim That shouldn't have been deleted. Given which mod deleted it, I guess it was a NAA flag, but I don't understand why a NAA flag would be marked helpful here.
 
@wim I can't see it. But moderators are also experts in something. Perhaps they deleted it as a 20K user would delete a wrong Answer?
 
I agree its unusual for a mod to delete something like that. However, you don't know what the flag was, or the reason Bhargav chose to use his delete hammer. Maybe a custom flag, explaining that the answer was dangerous?
 
I don't see why that answer would be "dangerous". You never know with licensing though ;)
 

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