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3:56 AM
Is What's the point of exercise? a bad question? It seems well-received, but it also seems to be an "explain this code" question that's unlikely to help others in the future. Am I being too harsh?
^spam, probably fake tech support
 
@RyanM The instructions for the upvote, specially for the first posts, if I remember well, is if it has text/question part and has a code part, has some tags, then it could/should be upvoted. Plus the answerers often upvote the question. I did CVed as needing more focus
 
4:29 AM
@tink pending suggested edit could use a second approve vote before closing to avoid it kicking the question into the reopen queue
 
4:57 AM
@RyanM fair comment, thanks.
 
6:09 AM
@karel to be fair though, it's only programmers that use WSL :P
 
@JohnDvorak You might be interested in this answer about WSL 2 that I posted.
 
7:04 AM
@Scratte there is a comment that says "an error was here"
 
@JohnDvorak Yes. But what's the error?
 
🤷‍♂
 
:) I "read" the code and found that there are multiple errors with it. Without an explanation to what they're trying to do, it's a bit tricky to make it work that way.
 
 
8:14 AM
@RyanM Voting has more correlation with popularity, rather than quality.
 
9:44 AM
@VadimKotov I suspect it being a spam seed
 
@Vega could be; user has a 2 week suspension currently on SU
 
10:13 AM
@Adriaan The posted is marked spam, my flag is declined though :/
 
10:27 AM
@Vega probably a mod with a lot of faith in new users ;)
 
11:11 AM
 
@rene How about the faith in older user? ;)
 
Ha! Point!
 
11:43 AM
I flagged the wrong account for voting fraud and my flag was marked helpful. What?
 
Maybe they were engaged in voting fraud too and you were just lucky
 
I doubt it. I am going to flag again just to make sure.
 
That not all of your flags are marked helpful? ;)
 
I am going to take a guess that a mod figured out which account I meant and the case got escalated but just to be sure I flagged again
 
12:05 PM
Morning
 
@VadimKotov I like tags whose wiki excerpt start with "Do not use this tag"
 
Does anyone know what this question is about? It looks to have accidentally created a tag and doesn't have any other tags
 
@Adriaan I guess that's what it refers to. The question seems incomplete.
 
1:36 PM
 
A question about the edits in this question - It seems like the last 2 edits are based on what the editor assume the question is really about, what do you think?
 
@AlonEitan It looks alright. I have answered that question in the past
 
Oh, ok then. Thanks!
 
2:08 PM
@Adriaan Please.build is 'a cross-language build system with an emphasis on ...'
 
Should this be considered no-repro? OP quoted a piece of text that is just plain wrong, without links to the source.
 
2:54 PM
@cigien I voted as "Unclear" and hope you don't mind
 
@Vega Yes, "unclear" seems reasonable as well, since they haven't cited the source.
 
3:18 PM
 
3:39 PM
lolol explosm.net/comics/5677 - a funny one for once
 
@TylerH I need a explain-explosm :/
 
It's probably not that clear for non-US folks
the Kool-Aid drink was advertised for years with an anthropomorphic pitcher of Kool-aid
in TV commericals someone would say something like "man I wish I had some Kool-Aid" and then the anthro pitcher would bust through the walls (like a 2 meter tall person, so not small...) of whatever building they were in and say "ohhh yeahhhh" in a deep voice
and offer them some of the drink
then everybody would be happy
So in this case, the Kool-Aid character burst through the walls of their space ship, it seems
 
Well, the happiness is something that has to be measured carefully in this case.
 
@Braiam Can watch this video which plays off the meme
 
@Machavity haha
20 seconds, nice
 
4:05 PM
What else can I do to make this question more clear to get it reopened? stackoverflow.com/q/64154261/1839439
 
@Dharman IMO only the OP can reopen it.
 
@10Rep Why?
 
@Dharman I am not an SME but from the comments, it seems as if only the OP has these details. For instance this comment; stackoverflow.com/questions/64154261/…
 
@10Rep I think all of us got confused with what OP was asking but at the end I was able to answer
Somehow OP even accepted my answer at the time when I had the wrong example
 
@Dharman I've seen that happen. I guess you could edit the wording to be more clear.
It also seems like the OP gave some info in the cooments.
Perhaps edit that in as well?
For instance, this comment: stackoverflow.com/questions/64154261/…
 
4:14 PM
Why to reopen?
 
It would make sense to reopen once we clarified the confusion. I don't think it's first to keep it closed if the question had the necessary details in the first place but due to our comments OP messed the question too much
I mean I think it's our fault the question got closed
 
@10Rep I say NAA
 
@10Rep I usually add a warning and flag as NAA. At the third answer I mod-flag or spam flag
 
I left them a comment. They've got another answer that is just like that one so next one I will spam flag
 
4:21 PM
@Dharman @Vega Thanks. I'll mod flag if they keep going.
 
4:31 PM
@Dharman It was unclear from the start, the numerous comments are the proof, so closing was right. It also could be no repro, they could have read ISO specifications. Also, The question got the right answer, what reopening would bring more?
 
Everything can be found with enough research. How do I know how to answer if not by research? If we followed this train of thought then there is no purpose for Stack Overflow at all. Question was unclear because we were focusing on whether OP understands what a week means or not. OP clarified in the comments and then we could answer.
 
@10Rep No, that's an answer. It's not spam, because the user has clearly disclosed that they are the author and the question is asking for ways to do what the linked thing does. It's not NAA, because the question is asking for ways to do what the answerer claims the linked extension does. It would be spam if the linked extension doesn't do what's requested in the question, or the author didn't disclose that it's theirs, but neither of those things is the case.
The answer should be edited to remove the request for rating the extension (done).
I'm not saying that it's a good answer, but it is an answer and is not spam (even though it's getting close). At two answers, it's not quite over-promotion, but it's getting there.
 
We can leave it closed I suppose no harm done. Even if the question gets deleted I will not be crying about it, but I just wanted to right my mistake.
 
@Makyen Thanks for clarifying and giving us a chance to retract our flags!
 
@Makyen Ok then, I'll retract my NAA Flag. I guess it depends on whether or not that chrome extension is actually related to the question, which it does seem to be.
 
4:38 PM
@10Rep Yes, it does depend on that. It does appear to be related, and do what the question is asking for, but I have not gone to the extension page to investigate.
 
Then one of these answers should be deleted
 
@Makyen Seems it actually does relate to the question. Looking at the extension images it seems as if it helps Gatsby refresh.
 
@Makyen But the question doesn't ask for external resources. Isn't the answer a VLQ then? It doesn't explain how to use the extension nor configuration, etc
 
Personally I'm tempted to flag it as VLQ. Maybe delete voting would also be appropriate.
 
@10Rep There are no images in the answer
I have flagged it as NAA (both answers) because it is not an answer in my book.
 
4:45 PM
@Dharman On the extension page, not in the answer.
 
I am about this question: stackoverflow.com/q/57509704/5468463
 
@Dharman Perhaps it is NAA, because it is a link only answer, but I wouldn't risk a moderator declining that.
 
5:07 PM
If the OP is doing edits that don't help in the least, is that considered a valid reason to del-pls the question?
 
@Vega I definitely agree that it's low quality, but it doesn't appear to dip into the very low quality range, IMO. Part of my problem with evaluating it fully is that I'm not familiar with Gatsby, so I don't know if what's being asked for is possible to do without an external program, or if it's dramatically more complex to do without an external program. The answers to the other question imply that it might be possible, but is probably quite complex to do without such an extension.
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica No, that sounds like a reason to either ask the OP to stop/be constructive, or mod-flag, so a moderator can ask/require the user to stop/be constructive.
 
@Makyen Is it not very low quality because of the question? What qualifies as very low quality?
 
@Vega Foreign language, gibberish (also R/A), link-only
 
@Makyen IMO it's super low quality. Maybe including more detail about why their extension can help. But I don't want to risk a declined flag. And it is link only, after all, so one could technically flag it as NAA.
 
@JeanneDark Yes, link-only, which was the case
 
5:14 PM
@Vega But link-only can be tricky
 
That is what I am asking to precise. So there are link-only answers and link-only answers? What is the difference?
 
@Vega If a Question asks for a link, then a link-only Answer is not to be deleted nor flagged.
 
The clear cases are something like "Here's a good article: [link]", acceptable are those where the link is the answer ("Use method [X](link to doc)"). I guess naming and linking to an extension etc. is closer to the latter (the question then might be the actual problem)
 
@Scratte The question didn't ask for a link.
Anyways, the answer just got deleted.
 
@Vega No, it wasn't link-only. Link only is: "your answer is [over here]". That's different than what is effectively saying "In order to solve this, you need to install an external program. I've written one that accomplishes this, which I've called 'my program's name'. You can get it [here]." While the current answer is much less verbose than that, it does say all of that.
 
5:18 PM
@10Rep Or if it asks for a plugin/repository/tutorial.. :)
 
@Scratte I don't know what Gatsby is.
Maybe it is a plugin
 
@10Rep But that isn't the marker for if it's right to delete it. That people do it wrong just means they can be suspended for deleting it in the Low Quality Posts queue.
 
@Scratte I don't think it got deleted in the LQ posts queue. After looking at the answer, the queue got cleared and I didn't see that specific answer.
 
@10Rep I'm not sure, but I think one cannot see posts if one has flagged them. I do not know if you flagged it.
 
@Scratte I flagged it first as NAA, then I retracted it.
It got deleted after I retracted it
 
5:22 PM
@10Rep I guess you could edit out the rude parts and turn it into some kind of an answer to the off-topic question.
 
@10Rep I'm not sure if the system see your retraction or not for the post you are given in the queue. I can't test it either, sorry.
 
@Scratte If I flag a post, I can still see it. I retracted it after a moderator convinced me otherwise. Perhaps I missed it in the queue, though.
 
@10Rep I would say no, it's not rude. It just went with the Question.
@10Rep I was referring to if you get to see it in the queue. Not if you can see the post outside the queue.
 
I consider that 'you need to install such package' with link, is not VLQ. But when they ask 'I have an error', an answer 'install my extension for Chrome, here is the link', and because it is a specific answer for Chrome, how it solves is not explained, I
flag NAA (or at least VLQ)
 
@Vega Do you ever get those declined?
 
5:25 PM
@Scratte It wasn't the case
 
@Scratte It includes two bad words, and is an answer to a very low quality question. That's rude in my book. My flag was marked as helpful, btw. Not that it matters.
 
@Scratte I don't think so
 
@Scratte @10Rep Both answers were deleted by a moderator. I'm not surprised. By default, moderators get very little context displayed with the flag. Without looking further, we get an unformatted, probably incomplete version of the Q or A. On their face, the answers look like they are probably link-only. For these, it would be not unlikely for a moderator to make a decision based just on the default view, particularly in light that there were two very similar answers by the same user.
 
@Makyen I see. That makes sense. Some times those deletions end up on meta ;)
@Vega Oh! You're not a fanatic flagger?!? :) Keeping an eye on every flag to see what happened to it and pull out your hair if you get a declined one? :D
 
@Makyen That makes sense. Do moderators see the question when reviewing a flag?
In any case, those answers weren't very good and I think they should have been deleted.
 
5:31 PM
@10Rep Hmm.. that it's an Answer to a low quality Question doesn't make it rude in my book. That doesn't even factor in at all.
 
@Scratte But it uses a word which I consider pretty offensive... and what's the gain in flagging it with something else?
 
@Scratte I am almost, I do check my flags time to time ;) But I don't remember having link-only answers flags as NAA declined for a while (I have >7K helpful flags :) ). I do have that kind of answers flagged as spam declined (majority deleted as spam anyway)
 
@10Rep I flag those NAA. If it's possible to edit it, someone may do that in the queue.
 
@10Rep We can see the question, but it takes extra clicks and, if the flag is on an answer or the answer's comments, then we can, with extra clicks, see an unformatted, but complete, version of the question (but not other answers), along with a normally formatted display of the answer and the answer's comments. Obviously, we can click through to the post to see the normal question page.
 
@10Rep Such flags might get declined if the post can be salvaged by editing it out the offensive words. R/A is rather completely unsalvageable like gibberish or attacks against people.
 
5:33 PM
@Makyen Then I can't blame the moderator who deleted it.
 
@Vega 7K flags :) I'm impressed as I expect you do not have a bot helping you :)
 
@Scratte @JeanneDark My thought process was that the question would get deleted, and my flag would be marked as helpful :). Normally I wouldn't risk it
 
@Scratte Hah, I wish ;)
 
@10Rep You make it sound like you're flagging to get helpful flags ;:
@Vega I flag one by one too.. it's a slow process. I hope to get to 5263 one day :)
 
@Scratte Is that a 'magic' number I am not aware of?
 
5:36 PM
@Scratte I flag because I want to 1. Get a good flag number and 2. Show people that you can't and shouldn't do the same thing for every single instance of x.
Normally I would flag as NAA. But I want to prove that that isn't the only way to do things.
 
@Vega It's the point of which I become an "elite flagger" unless I get another declined one. I still have 2965 flags to go ;)
 
You are on the 'down of the hill' side then :) you will reach it soon!
 
For instance, what should I flag this as? stackoverflow.com/a/64160544/12708583
 
@Scratte That's why you don't want get 3k rep so you can't vote to close? :)
 
@10Rep Don't flag, it could be DVed
 
5:41 PM
@JeanneDark Not quite. Flagging Answers is faster. I can flag 50 a day manually and have them all resolved by the end of the day. I can only flag 10 Questions a day and then wait for at least a week to have maybe half resolved. The rest is disputed or ages away and then I post them here.
 
@Vega I haven't flagged it yet. RA is too strong, for sure.
 
@Vega You mean D=delete?
 
Yes, but a mod took care of it
 
I would say NAA would be sustained by most mods for that. But I went ahead and deleted it
Could custom it if you're worried about a decline
 
@Scratte Why only 10 questions per day? There are so many close-worthy ones. Or is that because you are in the review queue?
 
5:43 PM
Hmm, I guess today is not my flagging day
 
@Scratte And my end goal is 100k flags :D. So I'll stay below 3k.
 
@Machavity I think that it is a bad answer, it is a gradle issue, but they considered that it was internet connection issue
 
@JeanneDark I can flag more, but.. it's not sustainable for me. I monitor the posts that I've flagged for edit. Also, if I flag faster I'll just have them age away for sure. I wouldn't be able to post them here for closure as I would be flooding the room. I have a very low tolerance for wasting my time on a post and flagging it and then having my time to go waste.
That's not quite symmetric ;) But if you downvote 9 posts, you'll get it ;)
 
@Scratte I had a flag that I raised when I first joined. It just got accepted today. Don't know why it didn't age away.
 
@10Rep Was it a custom flag?
 
5:47 PM
Yes
 
They don't age away
 
@10Rep The help page on flags tells you when flags age away :) Custom flags aren't mentioned, but @JeanneDark knows everything :)
 
@JeanneDark Yay, another flag in my endless pile!
The help page doesn't talk about custom flags aging away, so I was confused.
 
Maybe they don't want users to know.. or they forgot to mention it.
 
@Scratte I can't see a reason for why users shouldn't know that... unless it's a conspiracy, which is highly unlikely. But not impossible :)
 
5:53 PM
I outsource all my custom flags :) I can't have that uncertainty in my life :D
 
Flag help page: We take moderator flags quite seriously; rest assured that they are all followed up on!

My custom flag: Get's reviewed after half a year
 
@10Rep It was dealt with, no? So they followed up on it :)
 
6:13 PM
@10Rep Hmmm... That's strange. Do you mean a flag on SO, or on some other site? The SO flag queue has been at 0 on a few/several occasions since I became a moderator, so if it was a custom flag on SO, something was wrong with the system. If it was on SO, I'd appreciate enough information to be able to track down the flag, which could be just the date (maybe and time) when you raised it.
 
6:39 PM
@Makyen I believe it was on Hinduism Stackexchange.
Anyways, I know mods have a lot of work, so it's fine.
 
@10Rep Ahhh... that makes more sense. My oldest pending flag on another site is from April. Such things happen from time to time.
 
@Makyen As a question, how many custom flags are pending right now?
 
@10Rep 58 custom flags are currently pending.
 
6:55 PM
 
I find it weird that the queue is so small that a single user's flags amount to 13% of the whole thing. However, I still think we need more mods. We could use 4-6 more mods at the moment.
It would be nice if we got moderator privileges for doing moderator work.
People doing clean up work often do not have much rep.
 
@Dharman Downvoting has it's perks ;)
 
@Scratte I wouldn't mind the system giving you or Jeanne Darc close privileges pro gratis.
 
@10Rep It could also be due to the drop in mods overall. A lot of people quit or just stopped participating. Charcoal found one on Coffee.SE and the mods there had all been inactive for nearly a week
 
After so many helpful flags the system could just give more power to such users
We have a site for Coffee?
What else Rum.SE?
 
7:21 PM
@Dharman Yep
 
@Dharman Well, if a 'handful' of mods (whatever that may be) were to conspire to each upvote a few of Scratte's posts, they would very soon have 2,000 rep. 3,000 would take a bit more work, though. ;-)
 
@Dharman They keep closing all my [java] and [coffeescript] questions for some reason, though...
5
 
hehe
 
@AdrianMole I believe you underestimate Scratte's dedication to preventing that :-p
 
You can always give me a bounty
 
7:22 PM
@Dharman That's nice of you. It does seem a bit odd that all privileges come with reputation. I find it to not be an accurate measure of a user knowing how the site works.
 
There are a number of people in Sobotics who flagged tens of thousands of NAAs.
Why do they have to involve mods still? Don't we trust them to know what is NAA and what is not?
 
@AdrianMole That would be.. against the rules :) It would be silly to do such a thing and then get caught, no?
 
@Dharman What? Give Natty a Diamond?
 
@AdrianMole OOOOO, that's ilegal :)
 
@AdrianMole I wouldn't mind. Although giving bots human privileges is not smart.
 
7:26 PM
@10Rep Nothing is actually illegal if you include the ;-) string.
 
@AdrianMole This is a robbery, give me all the money ;-)
 
@AdrianMole BTW, if Scratte won't accept the reputation, you can funnel it to me ;-)
 
The Community user has a diamond, so it's not like it's never happened.
 
@Scratte despite their behavior being so terrible that they were suspended elsewhere on the network!
 
Yeah, but community user is special. It is a bot under the control of the company. It's part of the system
 
7:27 PM
@AdrianMole When I feel ready, I will do the work and get there. But I'm not ready yet.
 
@Dharman And contentious
 
@RyanM That was unexpected :D But very funny :)
 
@Scratte Community also flags things, believe it or not. And we have to review them like any other flag
 
@Machavity At least it doesn't just nuke posts :D
 
@Machavity 210,084 helpful flags, in fact!
 
7:31 PM
I wonder what their declined ratio is :)
 
Really curious what the denominator on that is :-p ...ninja'd
 
@RyanM 13k declined :P
 
A large chunk of my helpful flags comes from automated flagging. However, most of my declined flags were raised by myself
 
wow, that's a much better ratio than I'd have expected for autoflags
 
So.. and accuracy of 93.81% and not even a Bronze flagger. They need another some 50000 flags to be Bronze
 
7:32 PM
@Machavity Those are most likely 'traps' set by the devs to catch out sloppy mods. :-)
 
Audits for mods?
 
If I do review queues I get audits like anyone else. But I can breeze through the mod express lane for LQP
 
You have failed too many audits recently! As you have clearly not been paying sufficient attention to site curation, your diamond privileges have been suspended for 4 days.
 
@AdrianMole Heh.. wonder where you get the original text from :D
 
... a dim and distant memory.
 
7:44 PM
IIRC moderators can in fact earn many of the same suspensions as normal users, but they can also lift them from themselves :-p
 
@AdrianMole Well, there was that one time...
2
 
@Dharman While I agree we could use more moderators, I'd like to see some better tooling in at least the moderator flag list/queue. Even with the moderators which we have active and handling flags, I routinely find I'm looking at flags which have already been handled by another moderator. I find this double-handling consumes a significant amount of my time, and is, of course, quite frustrating.
Note: handling flags is not the only thing which moderators can/should do. A moderator could be quite active while handling very few flags.
 
True I see some mods being very active in their own tags but I rarely see them handle my flags.
 
Is this semi or very clearly NAA?
 
@Scratte I don't know I flagged it 0.5s after opening the page and then closed the page. Sorry, habit.
 
7:54 PM
@Dharman lol!.. You just flag everything or you didn't put it on a scale? :)
 
It's the ratio of link to text. It didn't look like an answer, so why waste time, flag and move on.
Oh and I have also downvoted...
Anyway, does anyone know if running CRON jobs as sudo -H -u http is a good idea?
Not sure where I found that, but I am trying to restrict the privs of the CRON job so it doesn't run as root nor my user.
 
Depends what it's doing. I recently found out the new Debian kernel doesn't like you running everything under root
 
It runs cleanup task on the database
 
Are you running the SQL directly under the cron, or is it kicking off like a PHP script that does it?
 
It kicks off PHP script. PHP then executes SQL and logs the results into a log/archive file.
 
8:02 PM
I wouldn't use sudo for that, then. If you have a CLI, you can do crontab -u httpd -e and run it under that user that way. Keeps it out of root entirely
 
What's the correct close reason for this? Typo or too broad?
 
Comments suggest a typo, but I can't say for sure
 
It may also lack minimal understanding, in which case it should be closed as too broad
Oh well, it should be closed either way. I guess I'll go with "typo."
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Given that the code is unrunnable in its current form, I actually went for Needs Details and Clarity. It's probably ultimately a typo close reason but its current close reason is that the OP has mangled the code when posting it.
 
8:32 PM
gods its annoying having low rep on other sites :-( can't close vote things
 
I really wish "View deleted posts" was granted globally once you have it on one site. It would make so many things so much easier.
 
I also wish there were a 'superprotect' option on top of a protect that you could apply for people under 1k rep or who don't have a silver badge on the question or something equally needed yet slightly unreasonable
@RyanM true. Or at least on MSE if you have it somewhere else
 
@TylerH that would help a lot with the few high-profile canonicals I guard against unnecessary umpteenth answers
 
In my case, I don't have it on SO, but I do have it elsewhere. It's especially annoying trying to do Charcoal things and figure out exactly what happened on a deleted question.
 
8:42 PM
@AndrasDeak It's quite annoying; questions have 30+ answers and they're all just derivations of one another, and someone with a couple hundred rep comes along and posts a repeat
 
fortunately mods are very helpful :)
 
8:58 PM
^ That one may even be spam (I didn't click the links).
 
@AdrianMole I raised a spam flag on it
 
Certainly very suspicious.
 
9:40 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
11:08 PM
@RyanM I answered a feature-request about this on MSE. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/158694/…
 
@10Rep yeah I'm generally in agreement with you on that, I'd seen that previously (and upvoted it at the time)
 
@RyanM Now just to wait and see if it gets a tag.
 
11:34 PM
@10Rep Yes, this user does not try to answer the question and does not provide any solution. This is just low-quality me-too answer.
 
@10Rep I concur
reply to accepted answer
 
11:51 PM
@Dharman Thanks for editing that post, the formatting actually made it unclear. I thought the last sentence wasn't part of the error. So I wanted to be sure.
 
@sideshowbarker not sure if there are not 2 accounts involved, one using SQL Server 2017 and the other one SQL Server 2015?
 

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