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12:06 AM
@Scratte It also has (for our American friends, no doubt)! However, I'm glad it doesn't have the equivalent for "K" (Kelvins) ... they're not actually degrees.
 
@Scratte Apparently, the standard explicitly discourages its use in normal text though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius#Unicode_character
 
12:21 AM
@BaummitAugen Thanks :) I missed that.
@AdrianMole Really? What are they? I know that I'm probably most comforatble at 284 of those.
 
@Scratte They are units in their own right: Degrees Celsius or Degrees Fahrenheit, but just plain old Kelvins.
... see the link from Baum mit Augen.
 
@Scratte Well that was weird.
@Makyen Sorry, I should have been clearer. Thanks for looking into it.
 
1:28 AM
So.. I'm looking at a Question that has a problem, a small code snippet, an actual and an expected output. However.. the problem seems to not be related to coding at all, but perhaps a misunderstanding of how math works. It's currently sitting at a -6 but no close votes. I'm not sure if such a Question is OK. I mean.. the issue, as I see it, is really that the author seems to not understand math.
 
2:24 AM
@AdrianMole if it's in reference literature somewhere between information retrieval and ML...
@Dharman what.....?! I'd be inclined to down vote anything with an external link to a demo...Just because. I'd end up not voting, but external demos give an urge.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:59 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
6:20 AM
^^ R/A
 
It was edited out now :| i'm keeping my R/A flag though
 
Shouldn't that have been left and then R/A flagged to oblivion? I'm keeping my flag, too.
 
The norm is not to edit R/A posts
 
 
1 hour later…
7:48 AM
@ArghyaSadhu I think that's spam posts only.
 
@Scratte But in this case, editing out the abusive remarks would have likely prevented other users voting R/A and automatically deleting the post.
 
8:14 AM
I noticed this Java Question in Triage. Any reason why closing it inside the queue is OK?
I see no reason to close it, which is why I'm asking.
 
8:28 AM
@Scratte The code is not usable as mcve, you cannot run it as is, almost as images.The question is slightly unclear to me
 
@Vega It's not suppose to be runnable. They're not asking for code at all. They're asking for howto make the call.
@Vega I agree that the question could be improved, but hmm.. they don't know howto do it and probably only added the code to not get shut down :(
 
9:32 AM
@Scratte you are probably right...maybe a moderator can confirm this
 
@ArghyaSadhu I found this message by CodyGray explaining that a Rude/Abusive flag was disputed because it could be edited out.
 
@Scratte okay..good to know
 
But I think the keyword is salvageable. It's only for then it's possible to edit it out and make the post OK.
 
That's quiet a keyword..never knew it existed before coming to stackoverflow..:)
 
10:00 AM
 
@ArghyaSadhu At least my browser dictionary knows the word salvageable, which helps me a lot since I always mess up the spelling on it. The real problem is with unsalvageable, which my dictionary says isn't a word. I "hack" it by first spelling salvageable and then I add the "un" :D
 
right click -> add to dictionary
 
@JohnDvorak That would be too easy, no?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:06 AM
 
user12247270
New feature
 
12:36 PM
@Scratte I have an other vision on that case. If the user has rude language in their problem explanation, they are overly 'expressive' in the description and frustration, and because some express themselves mostly that way, and of course, there is something salvageable in the post, then yes, go ahead and edit it out to keep the useful.
But if the rudeness is against the community or some users/curators, then it is plain rude and should not be edited to invalidate the flags and the user should go up the consequences of their rudeness. If it was a comment, we would flag it as R/A. For me the presence of the (bad quality, for that case) question is not a reason
 
@Vega Good point that an edit invalidates any flags. But isn't that also what happens if a moderator sees it and then edits the post? Assuming it doesn't accumulate the 6 red flags and gets deleted before a moderator notices it.
 
biscuits
 
12:54 PM
@AdrianMole with milk is always nice while editing ;)
 
That is reserved to Santa :)
 
1:07 PM
@bad_coder I think you're a little confused this Sunday afternoon/morning/evening.. You've not asked a Question, you've answered one.. and cannot accept any other Answer on that particular post :)
 
Should this post be closed? OP showed non-working c++ code for an online programming site problem. An answer was posted that pointed out why OP's solution doesn't work, and links to a python solution, which OP then accepted. This seems to have limited value. If it should be closed, what would the reason be?
 
1:22 PM
Not sure what's going on here stackoverflow.com/a/63978831/1839482
It's NAA which is accepted
 
@ArghyaSadhu Don't presume that the asker knows what is accepted as answer :)
 
Yes new user
 
1:59 PM
This python matplotlib Question asks to explain code. It's been edited to direct/highlight the lines of question. Is it fine?
 
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
4:27 PM
@Dave For spam, please prefer suggesting to flag as spam instead.
 
oops somebody was trying to edit it
 
Comment of the day
That's what it looks like when you light the afterburner and go into hyperspace. — Michael Hall yesterday
 
5:23 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
6:31 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
7:49 PM
 
8:25 PM
I want to delete this question but it has 1 duplicate linked: this question. Should we remove both or try to find a suitable duplicate for the other one and a gold-hammer who can change it?
 
@halfer I'm hesitant. It's in English, but they have a jQuery question labeled PHP/Laravel. Not sure it's MRE
 
FWIW as an SME I see no value in either of them
I have spent 9 downvotes across the two of them
 
8:38 PM
Yeah, that was a terrible dupe. It's gone
 
Thanks
 
8:59 PM
@Machavity Fair enough. I wanted to credit the author for the rare occurrence of question repair ;=) but acknowledge that might not be everything wrong with the question.
Let's see if your comment produces further amendments.
 
9:23 PM
I suppose the only way to do any Low Quality Posts reviews with all those active moderators is to do busy waiting and refresh it every 10 seconds now :)
 
Hey - my Meta post got hot!
 
@AdrianMole I guess more users are going to learn something online today ;)
 
@AdrianMole If you can clean that tag up and figure out what to rename it, I can do the rename
 
Whaaa.. ! Slow down, y'all talk too fast.
 
9:31 PM
lol! Mere øl? ;)
 
@Machavity But that's my problem! What to call it? I think the answer from Oleg gives some good suggestions, but it's really not my call.
 
I was kinda partial to [online-machine-learning] myself, since we have [machine-learning]. [online-learning-algorithm] sounds too much like [seo]
 
@Scratte Tonight (and for 'one night only') I have unashamedly indulged in the imbibement of "El Tequila!"
 
@AdrianMole With lemon and salt in shots?
 
@Machavity Seems I raised an issue without having an answer! I guess that's why it was tagged "discussion."
 
9:38 PM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio In general, we don't do flag-pls requests in here for VLQ or NAA flags, unless there's some reason you can't flag it yourself (e.g. out of flags, your flag was cleared as the result of someone doing an "Edit" from the review queue without resolving the problems with the post, etc.). Please see Can I request people to vote or flag on posts I find?: Very Low Quality (VLQ) or Not an Answer (NAA) in the FAQ.
The reason for not allowing such requests is that having multiple of VLQ or NAA flags, instead of just one, has such a small effect that raising the additional flags isn't worth the effort, once there's already one flag of that type active.
 
@Scratte No! Never! I drink it with respect: In a glass, with a hint of lemonade and a freshly-squeezed lime.
... if it's a really good Tequila, then the lemonade is not required.
 
@AdrianMole Huh? What's wrong with salt? I usually take a little salt, then the tequila.. then keep it in my mouth until I'm on fire and use slice of lemon to tame it.
 
@Makyen OK. Didn't knew that, sorry (The FAQ is quite a little compact).
 
@Scratte Bah! Urg! Aargh! .. Philistine! Drink it as a drink you like. Don't poison it (or try to hide it) with salt and stuff.
 
np. Yeah, there's a lot of information there.
 
9:44 PM
@AdrianMole Have you tried it with salt yourself? :)
 
@Scratte Of course ... when I was < 19.75!
 
@Makyen NAA flags can be cleared by the folks at the review queue? I thought they would persist until the post is deleted in comparison to VLQ.
 
@AdrianMole Unfortunately I'm out of tequila, so I'm going to have to wait and try the different ways some other day :(
 
@AdrianMole Listen like a subject matter expert... ;-)
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Indeed! However, SO has, unfortunately, no tag. If it did, I would already have my Mjolnir.
 
9:53 PM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio NAA ends mostly in helpful (deleted) or disputed (not deleted by reviewers). Mods only get the decline option in console
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Both VLQ and NAA flags on Answers can be marked helpful and resolved in the Low Quality Posts queue when the Answer is deleted in the queue. This happened quite a lot during spring. Now.. you can expect the post to be handled by a moderator as the moderator flag queue is apparently not very long at the moment.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio NAA flags can be cleared from the LQP with an "Edit" review response (i.e. the blue "Edit" button in review). While it's often not understood by reviewers, using the blue "Edit" button in a review queue makes the system think that all issues with the post are resolved and kicks the post out of the review queue (i.e. out of Low Quality Posts or the CV review queue, whichever one the post was in).
 
@Machavity I'm not sure that it can become disputed.
 
@Makyen That, IMHO, is a fault in the system!
 
@Scratte It can if it's reviewed out. I did that once in the LQP just after getting modded and it marked the flag disputed
There's some userscript hackery to do the same thing
 
9:56 PM
@Machavity modded? :) What does "reviewed out" mean? Is that it the queue finds that the post is fine?
 
@Scratte It means that reviewers (I get a binding review) selected "Looks OK" or "Edit"
 
@AdrianMole I agree, but it's clearly the way it was designed and intended. At an absolute minimum, when clicking that blue "Edit" button, it should be made crystal clear to the reviewer that they should only do so if it resolves all the problems with the post. Although, personally, I don't feel it should be a review option at all. If someone wants to make an edit, give them the normal edit dialogs, but don't make "Edit" a super-review action.
 
@Machavity I've had edits from the queue marked my flag helpful though. Which is when I look at it again and usually.. ask someone else to flag it.
 
Declined is more serious in that enough declines will flag ban you
 
@Machavity I can live with a flag ban. However.. the hurt that it will do to my statistics is.. absolute horrible! :D
 
 
@Makyen However if (by some strange chance) a reviewer would click the "more" button in the review header, they would see: Edit if you can fix all the problems with this answer (bolding mine).
 
@AdrianMole Yes, it does actually say that, which is good. Unfortunately, that really doesn't do a sufficient job of communicating the effects of a "Edit" review response. It's probably due to the contrast with how editing is encouraged on posts throughout the site. The review interface just doesn't differentiate itself sufficiently to indicate that there are substantial effects on the post and review which are beyond what people are conditioned to see that an "edit" does on a post.
 
@Makyen Yo, Big-Man! I'm not even trying to say the Review Queue UI is faultless. It's not! But, allegedly, folks are working on it. Let's wait a while and see what happens?
... ^ Tequila-induced lingo. Hmm?
 
@AdrianMole Tequila!
 
@Makyen It could make at least a little difference at communicating if "Edit" would be replaced by "Fix". In this way, it is clear that the button only should be triggered to clear the post. And we even save one letter for the UI.
 
10:13 PM
@AdrianMole Yes, they are working on it. I'm glad they are. I'm hopeful it will be substantially better. Unfortunately, I'm ... less than impressed with SE's track record wrt. UI changes. I am looking forward to seeing what they develop. I hope that they go through another round of getting feedback on what they are doing prior to locking everything in place for their implementation.
 
... There was a case a while ago, where a "Cherished Moderator" called me out on a review I'd made, where I'd upvoted a "not good answer" comment and then clicked, "I'm Done." But (unbeknown to me at the time), that "validated" the post (which was not my intent).
 
@Makyen Let me ask an important question, say some SOCVR member (always the same one) consistently demands (or implies) that one other member justify his actions...I mean consistently, 10 times, 20 times, and most times it's borderline nonsense, finding a pretext to pick an argument, nothing else. Although they'll be imaginative at coming up with pretexts and seeking to invoke rules.
@Makyen At what point can the member this happens to, calmly say:"stop speaking to me" in the cease&desist sense they use in the US? With that being perfectly understood by the ROs for what it is: Too many times calling the same one guy into question.
 
@bad_coder You think this would be unnoticed by other regulars? If so, then you need to be more specific.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Yes, a small change to the UI would make a significant difference. My main frustration has been that simple changes, which would make a substantial difference, take years to be implemented, if they ever are, particularly when the reason which is given for not spending an hour or two making a simple change is justified with "we plan on having this large project to revamp that, which might be done in 6–8, so we're not going to do anything".
In other words, "we're not going to spend 0.001% of the effort to get a 50% to 80% improvement, because we want to spend 10,0000 times as much effort to completely re-do it." (which will have it's own issues) Revamping things is sometimes good/sometimes bad, but that you're going to have a major fix 9 months in the future doesn't justify not spending a couple/few hours making improvements which substantially improve how people interact with the site during those 9 months.
 
@bad_coder Inside the room or outside the room?
 
10:21 PM
@Scratte Always inside the room.
@AdrianMole Just so there's no margin for misunderstanding, everyone who's ever had 2 friendly and kind sentences towards me is exempt of this. I'm talking about consistently antagonizing based exclusively on curation and room rules, as if seeking a pretext to take issue with someone.
 
@bad_coder Well, in all honesty, I really can't say that I've noticed such behaviour.
... if I had, I would have raised it, already.
 
@bad_coder Some users will contact other users inside the room if they have other interactions outside, but as a courtesy. I've not notice what you speak of.
 
@AdrianMole well, you don't read all the transcripts and it's said the guys who this sort of stuff happens to are the ones bound to take notice...
 
OK, point taken. I'm here a lot, but not always.
... but, OTOH, if someone is consistently making bad requests, then they should be challenged (albeit, politely).
 
@Makyen That's a crazy policy. Can't believe that. Do you got some reference to that?
 
10:30 PM
@Makyen don't worry about answering. It's Sunday and I know you're busy. I feel better just from mentioning it. Hopefully it'll be left at this.
 
@bad_coder That's going to be very situation dependent. A) The chat software always gives you the option to ignore a user. You can choose to use that feature, but others in the room may wonder why you don't respond to questions/issues with your requests.
Personally, I'd approach it calmly and directly, by saying something like:
"Hey X, I'm getting a bit frustrated. It feels like you're repeatedly calling out my requests and actions to the point where it feels like you're picking on me for some reason other than the validity of by actions/requests. For example [here], [here], [here], and [here] you bring up L, M, N, O, which all appear to be extraneous issues, or to be unfounded. Is there some general reason you're doing this for my actions/requests specifically? Is there something else which needs to be addressed?"
If you don't feel comfortable addressing this yourself, then you can talk to one of the ROs in semi-privately in another room and explain in more detail. If it rises to the level where you feel a moderator should be involved, then you can flag and ask to be able to explain in more detail.
@bad_coder I was already working on a reply. :)
 
@Makyen Thanks, I'll bookmark your answer in my SOCVR folder. Should the need every come I'll take from your example and approach the situation calmly. Thumbs up.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Unfortunately, that's actually a fairly typical position for a (tech) development company to take: "We're not going to do anything with the old thing, because we're working on this flashy new thing."
For larger investments of effort in the old thing, that's actually a reasonable position to take. However, it breaks when looking at things where it would take a couple/few hours to get 50%–80% (or even just 5%–10%) of the benefit.
At least in some other cases, where I've had more insight into the in-company politics, one of the reasons that people haven't wanted to fix even the easy problems with the existing thing is that having fewer complaints reduces the pressure for devoting the large amount of resources which the new thing requires.
People who are emotionally or politically invested in the new thing don't want to take even the chance that small improvements to the current/old thing will be considered "sufficient" by those making the policy/direction/money/resource decisions and cause those people to choose not to continue forward with the new development.
6
@bad_coder np. I'm glad to be able to help.
 
The coffee table booklet comes with all the long messages, right? Not just the starred ones.
 
10:46 PM
@Makyen Aah - politics! Remind me - why was it you wanted your Diamond?
 
@Scratte LOL I'd buy the book in hardcover :)
 
So it's 0.49 a.m. UTC+1 in West Europe. I'm going to get some sleep. Thanks @Makyen. Good day/night everyone.
 
11:05 PM
@DavidBuck saw you mentioned the h2g2 radio series the other day - have you encountered the interactive fiction game? It's rather good; IIRC it's Douglas Adams's favorite version of the story.
 

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