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12:21 AM
 
 
3 hours later…
3:12 AM
 
3:56 AM
^ Duplicate is in the comments. I accidentally wasted my hammer opportunity by voting to close for lack of clarity.
 
4:17 AM
 
4:34 AM
How can I not be irritated by bad voting, when I necro-post a correct, explained, demonstrated answer, then someone comes to the page, upvotes the question, then upvotes all answers that are not already negative, then downvotes my answer with no comment. It's hard to intrepret it as anything other than an attack. I don't need my answers to instantly swell with UVs and I don't care about rep anymore, but I do care when my correct answers have a negative tally because this confuses researchers.
 
4:47 AM
Why don't we simply boldface everything?
4
 
5:48 AM
@Dharman It might be, I didn't have time to take a look at the time. The newer one seems to be possibly answerable, as it actually has an error.
 
7:02 AM
@bad_coder It is more "I could not care less"
 
 
1 hour later…
 
You don't see a question in Latin every day
 
@JeanneDark that's not a question though
Google translation looks roughly like Rick Astley lyrics
 
8:35 AM
 
@mickmackusa That is a shame. :/ Might be worth taking a break if you feel that is harming your integrity.
 
@E_net4thecommentflagger Then they win -- not gonna do that when I can continue to add value to SO. It is not my behaviour that is damaging this site for researchers.
 
@mickmackusa But ask yourself: do you value Stack Overflow more than your life?
 
Does not compute. Stack Overflow === Life. ;)
I think what disturbs me most is that these "attackers" intend to "hurt" me, but they are not -- they are hurting researchers and Stack Overflow.
 
8:58 AM
 
9:10 AM
That looks like spam
 
@mickmackusa That's pretty normal stackoverflow.com/a/63820522/1839439
For me it doesn't matter, since it is nearly impossible to overtake the old highly upvoted answers. As long as my answer is there I don't mind. I know that what I posted is correct because I tested it. I have no idea why would anyone downvote it
 
9:31 AM
Any C coder here? I think this is wrongly duped stackoverflow.com/questions/63826228/…
 
9:44 AM
@klutt The second (added) dupe looks about right, although there are others. But it is a dupe (and not a very good one).
 
@AdrianMole Lundin explained why the first one fits, but I think both of them are related enough
 
@klutt Indeed.
 
9:58 AM
I have noticed one type of questions that can be incredibly difficult to get an answer to here at SO. And that is when I have to code something to specifications that are stupid, but non-negotiable
 
@klutt when you have to do something dumb you can always ask quora
 
@AndrasDeak I don't see why that should be the case. Facing stupid requirements that cannot be changed is the reality for many programmers.
 
@klutt "too localized" :)
 
@AndrasDeak I guess it depends on what kind of requirements it is.
 
10:17 AM
@Adriaan sounds correct, voted so
 
Is this about programming? Looks more as computer science theory to me
 
@Adriaan not quite sure - CV'ed as needs clarity
 
@Adriaan Have you checked other questions on the tag? None of the ones I've read are about programming
 
@Braiam No. But feel free to post a burninate request on meta
 
@Adriaan Only 32 questions.
 
10:27 AM
Well, I know nothing about the tag involved, so I'm steering clear of it for the time being
 
It's about an algo for preprocessing data before compressing, many of them is about the theory rather than practical implementations
Of course, some knowledge about the algo would be needed to translate it into code, but questions in the tag tends to be only about the algo itself in a high level
 
11:00 AM
@DalijaPrasnikar Off course you care, but you feign indifference.
 
11:22 AM
RO: please delete the request above. Wrong duplicate
 
11:43 AM
@bad_coder Err... I just don't care about sport... why is that hard to believe... I had no idea about what you are talking about before I clicked that link.
 
12:02 PM
^^ Is that just disguised spam (SD report)?
 
I've encountered this problem before; the last closing code-fence of a code block shows up as formatted code, like here. The first code block is nicely enclosed in fences, where the fences don't show. Is this a markdown failure, or have I missed something in my edit?
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Because sports is beautiful, inspiring. Not appreciating sports would be akin to not appreciating music or the arts.
 
@NathanOliver Good morning.
 
@Adriaan The code block started with 4 backticks instead of three
 
12:12 PM
@khelwood Yea, I saw that thanks to your edit. I'll check next time whether I have the correct number of fences. Thanks!
 
@bad_coder no, it would be akin to not appreciating opera or synchronized floating
 
Also request off-site resource ^^^
 
@Adriaan I played around in the editor and I didn't see a difference. Maybe the reason was that you used ´´´ to close it instead of ```
 
@JeanneDark Nah, I didn't actually change those specific fences; khelwood solved the problem: there were four opening fences, rather than three
 
The fences had been there before
 
12:20 PM
@tripleee lol is that an English correction? I picked the first word at hand. (I've honestly stopped perfecting my English years ago. I lost interest in that language.)
 
@bad_coder no, it's an attitude correction. There are art forms, science forms, and sports that I do not appreciate and that includes pretty much everything in organized spectator sports
 
12:40 PM
@bad_coder Seriously?!?
 
@tripleee "Science forms" for example? Form A and form B at the science fair?
 
Where should flag discussions take place? Would here be appropriate? It's not a Close Vote.
 
@bad_coder disciplines then ... point being not so much correct English terminology as the fact that you can't dictate or even argue about whether somebody should like sports if they don't
 
@tripleee Or is that filling out form A when submitting a funding request?
 
stackoverflow.com/a/63830049/2418790 - TL;DR User shows attempt to answer question, but links other SO answers that may answer the question. One of the links is a self-promoting link as the answer linked is not accepted. Should it be flagged as "Not an Answer"? Or should the question be flagged as a duplicated for the aforementioned SO posts?
 
1:01 PM
@tripleee I didn't dictate nor did I argue, I was having a chat. However, people taking issue and meddling in conversations they had no part in is a hallmark around here. In any case, I don't take issue with it, nor do I especially mind that, after all you're not among the worse.
@tripleee ohh man that's such a classic, someone finds a pretext to pretend and correct me only to make a mistake themselves in the very next sentence. I appreciate that, shows some spontaneity.
 
Anyone else having problems with "preview" in edits? (I.e. not being able to see it.) I posted a "bug" on Meta.SE but I can't reproduce it there ... so is it specific to SO? Anyone tried on other sites?
 
When I click on edit it looks normal to me, with the preview of what the post would look like
 
@AdrianMole Preview works for me. Below the edit box, do you see a show preview or hide preview link?
 
@NathanOliver Yes - I see "hide preview" and, when I click that, it changes to "show preview" ... but there is no visible preview either way. I've tried a few edits on Meta.SE and one other site (Server Fault) - I can see the preview on both of those, but there is no "hide preview" link on either.
 
What happended to the Edit box? Why are all the buttons gone?
 
1:09 PM
@AdrianMole Do you use user scripts? If so, try disabling all of them and see if it still happens. If it doesn't then you have a bad script
 
Was there some kind of update to the edit box today?
 
@NathanOliver Aha! Disabled all 5 that I currently have running and ... the Preview came back! Now to find which is the offender...
 
Woot
 
@tripleee While in fact, you can't make an argument around tastes and preferences -equivalent to disagreeing on colors- as a form of intolerance. The judgement of taste is, nevertheless, one of the most common issues of conversation. Which raises the question: what are your favorite sports? Horse back riding, flying planes, polo, yachting, motor sports, perhaps getting a ticket on a space ship and flying into outer space?
 
@NathanOliver You wooting me? What for?
 
1:14 PM
It's the CV generator
 
That you at least found the cause of the issue
Remember, knowing is half the battle ;)
 
@bad_coder there are rings in hell, probably baseball is at the very core of the abyss but that could be cultural bias (I understand even many Americans are flabbergasted at the amount of attention and money being spent on that); motor sports are close too
 
@tripleee "the are rings in hell" - how Dantesque :D
 
@Dharman Yep - I can confirm that. One from our own @Makyen, I believe?
 
@Makyen FYI CV-generator is broken. I get Uncaught TypeError: Markdown.Converter is not a constructor
 
1:17 PM
@NathanOliver I have a red laser too. Does that help?
 
I suppose it is related to the prettify highligh.js change
 
Lasers are always helpful
 
@AdrianMole I met your long lost Russian cousin, his name was A. Moleotovo. (He says he likes cocktails)
 
@Dharman probably changed to Commonmark.Converter?
 
@bad_coder The surnames are entirely unrelated! Mine is actually a contraction of Mephistopheles.
 
1:20 PM
Molot is hummer in Russian, 'ov' i the suffix
 
@Vega :O amazing
 
@bad_coder I have seen many of your cousins
 
@AdrianMole Faust is actually a word in some languages, I wonder how that translates into English?
@Vega HAHAHAHA I'm sure you have :D
 
@NathanOliver On sharks for maximizing usefulness
 
That's a lot of red tape. Why not use sea bass instead? Genitically modified of course ;)
 
1:23 PM
@DaneBrouwer I don't recommend to flag it as NAA, it will most likely be declined
 
@Vega Thank you.
 
@NathanOliver What's the other half, though?
 
Profit?
 
Is this answer eligible for NAA? OP just says "I don't think so" and refer to another answer. Is an answer just because one "thinks" something would be like X an answer? I made a Meta post about it once and got the suprising result that it would be an answer.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I call it a comment. And thus it was...
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio @Machavity Not saying that was a high quality one, by no means, but isn't: "What you're trying to do is not possible" technically an answer?
 
@code11 You should at least assert so. Vague statement isn't what answers should be for ;)
 
@code11 What pushed me over that edge is that while it says "No" it then proceeds to go "Here's another castle. Go there". The correct course there is to comment and flag/vote as dupe
If they had linked (and quoted) almost anything else backing it up I might buy it was an answer
 
2:07 PM
If anyone has interest: This is my post I was referring to. Got closed very soon unfortunately. It had more potential in it to get discussed in my opinion, but well...
 
@Machavity ah, that was my next question. Thanks.
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I think there was a valid question in there. While the NAA aspect of what you asked may have been handled by that canonical, I think there could have been more discussion on the presence of 'vague statements' in general. For instance, I think a correct thing might be to edit out the vague part.
 
I someone posts a comment referring to their own site, without disclosing affiliation except in their profile page, can that be flagged as SPAM?
 
@bad_coder Comment or answer?
 
@Machavity comment
 
@bad_coder Is the link the only thing which is contained in that comment? Or is there any useful information to the topic else?
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Comment is, I quote:"Check a step-by-step tutorial at: URL"
 
2:46 PM
@bad_coder That's spam IMHO.
 
@bad_coder If the comment is spam, use a custom mod comment flag. Comment flags give us even less context than posts, and most of us tend to run through them in short order by type
 
@Machavity done.
 
@bad_coder Maybe I was a little to fast: Is the URL to a main page only or immediately to the page which explains it? Links to helpful articles elsewhere are common and useful. Problem by "step by step" tutorials is that they can cover many things and the focus can be lost. In such a case a link to an affiliated page would be way more spammy than usual. So very case specific. At the end, I think it is only in the hand of the unique moderator.
 
3:08 PM
This is nice to see -3403 18:49 reversal Voting corrected
 
3403?! oof
 
@Dharman Was that one 1 single user?
 
Yeah, but there is a number of users with similar drops in reputation. stackoverflow.com/…
Just take a look at the last page
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio You had me worried for a few seconds there!
 
3:16 PM
... it's confusing that del-pls and reopen-pls are the same popup, though.
 
@AdrianMole Unfortunately, we don't have a [del-pls] generator. So I use the reopen one and edit it later in the room.
 
I used the del-pls generator (that is, the one we don't have).
 
@AdrianMole :-/ Hmmm, Is this implemented in the *-pls request generator? I don't have this possibility. Maybe it has something to do that I can't vote to delete by myself but shouldn't I be able to cast a del-pls request?
 
Yes: There is a 'button' added called "reopen/del-pls" and you select which you want when it pops up. It may be 20K-dependent ... find an older closed Q and see what happens (you don't actually have to post the request).
 
3:31 PM
@AdrianMole I only have "reopen-pls" and no switch between which one to chose. I found older closed questions where I suprisingly also can cast a delete vote but no del-pls request with the generator possible.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Maybe an option/setting somewhere, or maybe you need an update?
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio what version of the userscript are you using?
 
... our Intergalactic Diamond will be able to advise. :-)
 
4:03 PM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio well that seems to be the latest version
I blame @Makyen
 
!!/blame
 
@AdrianMole It's John Dvorak's fault.
 
@TylerH Wrong, again!
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio There's an alpha version of the Request Generator, which is the recommended version, unless you are using Greasemonkey on Firefox.
 
4:17 PM
@TylerH No need to blame. :-)
I guess I better should post an issue on Github with all details added and some screenshots as well.
 
I don't really know what's going on with this question. I've just flagged it R/A as it seems to be complete trolling nonsense as the OP keeps posting Answers and comments as if in conversation with themselves. stackoverflow.com/questions/63833365/…
 
@Makyen I use the script with Tampermonkey on Firefox/Windows.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Then, it's recommended that you use the alpha version. The current version of which is version 1.9.1.0. There are significant additional features, but it is incompatible with Greasemonkey.
 
@DavidBuck have raised a custom flag, too, for the whole thread (question, "answers", comments)
 
I flagged the comments and answers as NLN and VLQ, respectively.
I'm sure mods have plenty of notice on it now.
 
4:24 PM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio It looks like there might be an issue with the alpha version, which was mentioned in an earlier ping today. I'll need some time to take a look at it.
@Dharman Thanks for the ping. I'll look into it.
 
@Makyen No need to hurry. I still can use the reopen-generator to create a [del-pls] request by editing in the room. I guess, in the next time I will post it as issue on Github and you can work on it whenever you want.
@DavidBuck 100% trolling. I'm insure how to flag the question and the two answers, too.
@DavidBuck But I don't think R/A is appropriate for the question. I see no offensive content in it.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio R/A doesn't have to be offensive. The definition is "Inappropriate for respectful discourse". If someone posts "gadsfasdkfhera gherkgerhskg" - that's R/A - this is about on the same level
 
I just up and deleted it. Not worth trying to sort flags on it. I wouldn't red flag stuff like that in the future tho. The general rule is that it needs to be pure gibberish.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio It looks like the alpha version is functional, but that there's a preview of the request which is currently not shown, due to an update to SE's code. I recommend going ahead and using the alpha version.
 
@Machavity Fair enough. As I said, I figured that even though it was using words, it was deliberately trolling and therefore intending to be disrespectful, but I'll flag otherwise in future.
 
4:40 PM
@DavidBuck The catch there is it's not terribly obvious why it's red flagged. I would bet most of the other mods would decline it. Remember, some people think red flags are to remove poor content and your flag might appear next to that
 
@Machavity Good point.
 
@DavidBuck "gadsfasdkfhera gherkgerhskg" is IMHO not R/A. I can't see how this shows signs of unrespectfulness since no one really understand what it means. I would flag it as VLQ. I would agree with a flag decline for R/A.
@Makyen I'll try. Thank you.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio pure gibberish is red-flag material
If the person is using real words, I wouldn't red flag. Mod flag instead, so a mod notices the words aren't coherent.
 
I get that point. Although my flag was in the spirit of "This includes posts by new users that contain no useful content at all", it's not apparent at first glance. FSM knows there are plenty of valid posts that don't make sense at first glance.
And not just the ones about PHP
 
4:58 PM
@Machavity I like Shog's kind of view on it and agree to apply the R/A flag to get the best effect but I'm in doubt if any moderator would accept it as you said, too. I prefer to be safe and get along with a VLQ one, although I might try a R/A in the future.
 
Feel free to VLQ it. Gets deleted either way
Just know that R/A gets it there faster. Either with users flagging or it standing out for mods. Even when the queue is large, red flags get a lot of attention
 
@Machavity Didn't you meant "If the person is using really words which aren't offensive, I wouldn't red flag." ?
 
does "covfefe" count as a real word? :D
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio It depends... sometimes people red flag posts just because they contain an offensive word. Had someone red flag 6 or so posts just because the code contained bad words they were trying to catch
Only one was valid (it looked like someone copied maybe a 4chan listing or something, with needlessly offensive sentences)
 
@JohnDvorak Only if PHP counts as a real language. ;-)
 
5:04 PM
But yes, if someone is insulting another user (bad words or not) R/A
 
@Machavity Correct and I agree.
@Machavity That's what I had in my mind.
 
5:43 PM
Re the earlier discussion: Flagged the gibberish post from the 2nd SD report as R/A, flag marked helpful, post deleted :)
 
@JeanneDark That's one of the flags where moderators stopped doing mental calculations: if the post needs to be deleted and the author given the system punishment for such post, approve.
 
6:05 PM
 
6:20 PM
When you think you've seen all the Nicks.
 
7:00 PM
 
7:11 PM
Are we permitted to mention that something's basically a tutorial-writing request in cv-pls requests? Or is that seen as irrelevant?
 
7:42 PM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I don't see an issue with that, it's just a bit more descriptive in how something is 'too broad' (for example)
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica In general, fact-based, non-derogatory statements describing the content of the post which are relevant to people choosing to click-through to view the post, or which make it quicker/easier for someone to evaluate the post, are permitted, even encouraged (i.e. saving people time is helpful). Some exceptions exist.
Statements which are opinions or evaluations, particularly if expressed in a derogatory manner, are generally not permitted. There is an explicit requirement that "GMTC" (i.e. "give me the code") and all derivatives, expansions, etc. not be used.
You should write it such that the post's author will be able to read the request and not be offended (to the limits that are reasonable when making a factual statement about the post).
 
request for tutorials is a prescribed close reason, after all
Or at least it was before they ruined the close dialog window text
 
<44 seconds from answer to accept on week-old question is a bit suspicious
but don't see anything else on the account, probably nothing
 
Hmm, getting a weird display issue w/ the alpha cv-pls request generator disabling a lot of the wysiwyg edit controls on the edit page
@CertainPerformance OP could have been on the site and seen the notification within moments, clicked through, read the answer, and made the call. Hard to say otherwise without knowing the exact answer or account (and I'm not suggesting you share that info here, either)
 
@TylerH Has been happening since around 2pm today. Makyen was notified
 
7:49 PM
It was the from the SmokeDetecter link just above
 
@Dharman ah, yeah I see the resolution: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/212036?m=49160897#49160897 that did it for me
 
@TylerH Did that actually fix it for you? Mine is still the same
 
Oh wait, I guess I forgot I turned the script off
Yeah, no, that didn't fix it for me
bummer :-(
 
@TylerH That's for a Violentmonkey issue.
 
@Makyen Yes, I use Violentmonkey
 
8:06 PM
@TylerH Oh, fun. Now I see it. It looks like it's intermittent for me.
 
8:28 PM
@Makyen I didn't save the screenshot of what I'm seeing unfortunately :-(
i.stack.imgur.com/JZ4x6.png seems intermittent to me, too
is an issue in the answer box, too (no wysiwyg commands)
now it's not applying to the /edit pages @Makyen -- do you have live updating going on?
 
@TylerH I'm not sure what you're asking wrt. "live updating going on".
 
Does the script have a live update feature
I can't remember which ones do
 
@TylerH IIRC, the Request Generator is the only one of ours which has an update feature that's not just the update feature within whatever userscript manager the user is using.
 
8:58 PM
OK, now the entire review page is blank with the script
something fishy is going on
 
10:27 PM
@Dharman Please - don't take this as any sort of judgment ... but, when a diamond mod closes a post but does not delete it ... who are we to then act on their behalf? Just sayin'.
 
We are SMEs...
 
@AdrianMole What value there's in keeping it, tho?
 
Fair comment .. which is why I generally avoid DVs on such.
 
Mods often close but don't immediately delete. It is our responsibility to revisit the post after some time, check if it was improved and if not see if it deserves to be deleted
 
^ Please refer to my previous comment.
 
10:29 PM
I agree with Dharman on this one and have cast the final delete. I don't see any value to the question or answer.
 
@Braiam Again - fair comment - but, unless there's an obvious case for deletion, I'll defer to SMEs.
... dupe with poor answers are what I would call "obvious cases."
 
For me, and remember I have delete privileges elsewhere, anything closed is fair game.
There may be mistakes, but on closed and downvoted questions with downvoted answers... unlikely
 
That's a bit strong, IMHO. A good due serves a purpose, if only for its title.
 
@AdrianMole It is ok if you are unsure whether the post should be deleted or not. If you don't want to vote you can abstain. Let other people judge the usefulness of the post. If you believe that a question should not be deleted then please do let me know. I can reconsider my judgement too. However, the fact that a mod closed it is not going to influence my decision as an SME.
 
@AdrianMole But you are literally curtailing anyone from having their own opinion.
 
10:32 PM
@Dharman Exactly right - you have never, in my memory, asked me why I didn't DV anything.
@Braiam No, I'm not. I'm just expressing my own concerns about whether or not I should use that 'powerful' vote privilege ... @Dharman has addressed my concerns (although it was, really, only a casual remark).
 
@AdrianMole Again, if I don't believe it should be deleted then for that I believe that it should have been reopened. I disagree plenty of times with people closing stuff as duplicate just for that reason.
 
It's all too easy to get into the "Vigilante" mode, and just DV anything that comes up. I'm not trying to judge the regulars of this room. Rather, I was expressing my own concerns about misuse of the powers the system has granted me. Not trying to challenge others' actions.
 
@Braiam Remember there's always middle ground - you can always skip. If you like living on the edge it's fine too, but some people might be more careful with their votes. We are all volunteers and no one is pressuring anyone here to vote one way or another. Requests we make here are done so that other people can help if they have votes to spare.
 
I think the "bottom line" is whether or not you can justify your delete vote if the post comes up on Meta. If you can (even if others disagree), then fine. If not - don't vote.
 
@JohnDvorak I removed the resource request
 
10:55 PM
It seems that you both @AdrianMole and @Dharman are misunderstanding: there's no middle ground. Questions are either answered or deleted. It's the life-cycle of a question.
If you read the privilege page it only says "delete unless you find something of value".
For users with the privileges, they expect them to do the last pass, in case someone missed something and if there's no change since it was closed, then just delete it.
Roomba is kind of the epitome of this idea.
 
I am not arguing with this fact. All I am saying is that you don't need to make the decision. If you don't feel the right person to judge the question, leave it for someone else. Don't vote blindly.
Another person will come along and they will be able to tell if there's anything of value or not.
 
@Braiam But, ultimately, SO (and its sister sites) aren't rule-based. They are community moderated. And 'community' means consensus - which implies, if not middle ground, then "no-man's land."
 
As Adrian said, you always need to own your votes. If you don't know how to justify your voting decision then don't vote
 
Unfortunately (IMHO), there is no "delete vote queue" - or even a "reason for deletion" popup. For example, I can do nothing to stop a post being deleted ... all I can do is wait for that to happen, then cast an undelete vote.
 
@AdrianMole You can vote to reopen. If you think the question should not be deleted then why is it closed?
 
11:04 PM
@Dharman A good dupe (I have a couple of my own) should neither be deleted nor reopened.
 
Of course, what you are saying would be more useful for duplicates, but even so good duplicates don't get deleted often. If they do, you can raise this on Meta
 
I would! (The "unnecessary duplicates" that you are (in)famous for wouldn't even come close!)
 
To really know if the post was a useful duplicate we would need to wait a good amount of time to see how many upvotes and views it gathers.
 
... although there was that one post, a few months back. Don't think that was one of yours, though, IIRC.
 
And we rarely delete highly upvotes/viewed posts
 
11:08 PM
... even a bad Q with a good A will need something 'special' for me to delete-vote.
 
A good answer is the reason not to vote to delete. If there are no good answers then the only thing which can save the question from deletion is being a good sign-post, but that is quite rare.
 
I concur. Anyway - pubs are shut and I've no more cigarettes; so, off to the "Noddy Land!"
 
Good night.
 
Nos da, ffrindiau! (Who says Welsh as no vowels?)
 
@AdrianMole That's kind of the point? They give you votes and expect them to use it in certain ways, and the guidance strongly hints to that. I, follow guidance, because it makes sense.
 

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