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12:12 AM
@bad_coder Maybe the world ended and we just don't know it ;)
 
12:36 AM
@Scratte Unlikely, I haven't spoken with St.Peter yet.
 
1:06 AM
Who upvotes a post like this? stackoverflow.com/a/63785857
 
 
1 hour later…
2:17 AM
@Nick probably either a sockpuppet account of the OP upvoted, or else some friend who they asked to upvote it
 
 
1 hour later…
3:38 AM
Is there a canonical dupe for "Why does <code that expects for i in j to generate indices rather than elements> raise IndexError?"?
That seems to be the underlying issue here: stackoverflow.com/questions/63786707/… and the misconception seems to come up constantly.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:42 AM
@Nick: Off-site resource would work too, as the question is nothing but a collection of links.
 
5:01 AM
@KarlKnechtel thanks (not!) for asking, I have gone through about 40 IndexError questions and they are basically all horrible
the best I could find so far is stackoverflow.com/questions/23098258/… but it's not exactly spot on
the more common problem seems to be assuming that an object exists when it doesn't
 
 
@bad_coder In the United States, this weekend is the Labor Day holiday. Taking the previous Friday off is not uncommon.
 
Could this sentence, added in a closed question, be considered as rude? > (Bonus question to whoever flagged this question: what part isn't clear for you?)
 
@Vega I'd call that "snark", not "rude". But I'm not as jaded as some here. :)
 
not particularly IMHO
 
Thank you @DanielWiddis and @tripleee :)
 
6:35 AM
Our famous RO about to head into Europe: metnet.hu/pic/metnet_upload.php?im=www.metnet.hu_59712_l.jpg :D
morning BTW
 
@kayess if I'm reading that correctly, going from Africa to North America
of course Rene is already in Europe, and I thought thoroughly stuck until I saw that picture
 
rene is all over the place :)
 
rene is worse than any virus, he gets in-/onto every-/anywhere
@tripleee he could easy take a turn and roam into eu.. highly depends on pressure fields though
 
@kayess I don't rene is influenced by pressure :D
 
7:16 AM
Perhaps better to close as a dupe of this?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:26 AM
@SamuelLiew I'm pretty sure the various cases of isSuperuser in your recent ReviewQueueHelper updates were intended to be isSuperuser(). Right now it's giving everyone your reviewing methodology because the function is truthy.
 
@RyanM fixed, thanks
 
 
 
1 hour later…
10:08 AM
My NAA flag got declined (I am not surprised and I am ok with this) but should we delete this answer anyway? What good is a thanks only answer? stackoverflow.com/a/63789751/1839439
 
@Dharman The answer there is to upgrade Django, so it attempts to answer the question, right?
 
It says that the command suggested in previous answer worked
 
Hmm, a gray area.
 
10:22 AM
@Dharman Maybe you should have commented on it? Makes it easier for a moderator or the queue to understand what's going on. I say delete it.
 
10:47 AM
 
@DanielWiddis as stated I wouldn't call it snark, I actually find that one humorous.
@DanielWiddis the guy's "breaking the Fourth wall" in SO terms :)
@RyanM thanks I wouldn't have remembered labor day in the US (it's the 1st of May in Europe), my first guess was a holiday weekend somewhere in Asia (none of those profiles indicated country).
 
11:27 AM
Would you R/A this nonsense or just NAA it? stackoverflow.com/a/63792743
 
11:37 AM
@JeanneDark Do you stop flagging when you get to a threshold of pending flags, or do you just keep going?
 
@Scratte There's a threshold but usually I just glance at the front page from time to time and flag off topic questions when it seems appropriate.
 
@JeanneDark OK. I get paranoid when I have more than 10 :D
 
10 is really a lot
 
I try to review somewhere between 10 and 40 posts a day, so it adds up.. unless I have too many pending flags, then I take a break. But I was curious as you're the other flagger in this room :)
 
I don't know how many posts I review, but I try not to post too often in here.
 
11:50 AM
And you're even doing un-credited reviews so far. I do them in the queues.
 
@Scratte A surefire way to avoid any review ban ;)
 
@JeanneDark lol! Yes, but there are also ways to avoid it when doing the queues :) You're already way ahead of most, even high reputation users :)
 
Maybe I should start answering the questions instead of flagging them ;)
 
Perhaps pick the ones you wouldn't have flagged ;) The others seem to be busy-work or rather: Expect your Answer to go away with the Question :)
 
11:58 AM
@Scratte But they are hard to find.
 
Morning
 
o/
 
1:17 PM
@Dharman I agree it should be deleted, because it is clearly written as a response to the existing answer, IMO. Even if you don't think it's NAA, it's still just repeating another answer wholesale, and is delete-worthy for that cause as well.
More importantly, that question is a(n nth) dupe
one sec and I'll have a target
 
@TylerH Can you remove my del-pls request. We can close and delete the question instead
 
@Dharman done
 
Thanks. I see a friendly mod already solved the problem
 
1:33 PM
It's bad when PHP folks can spot the Python dupe ;)
 
Hey, I'm not a PHP person!
 
@TylerH Sooner or later, PHP cascades to all web folks :P
@NathanOliver Does this Q look to be MRE now? I'm leaning no but I don't want to miss some how-to either
 
I actually started with PHP as my focus when I started learning HTML and CSS
the mod project I was in had a php website with phpbb forums and some pretty hefty customizations that needed updating
consequently that's also when I learned I didn't like PHP :-P
 
I started in Coldfusion actually. If you wanna feel better about PHP, go fiddle with that
 
Coldfusion was ... it ... from a mile high .. given the timeframe .... it was worthless ...
 
1:40 PM
@Machavity I'm going to leave that closed. It looks either TB or POB.
 
Coldfusion was like buying a pre-fab shelf. It does shelving well, but it doesn't do anything more elaborate without lots of external work. PHP is like a hardware store. Buy boards and nails and build anything. Just mind the saw without a guard...
 
@Machavity weird hardware store*
 
@Braiam "You can do it. We can sell it to you and laugh later"
 
Like a hammer with two claws :D
 
I won't deny it ;)
 
1:56 PM
oh great, Sam's doing another 1k reviews today...
at this rate there won't be anything left for us to review by Thursday...
 
@Braiam double action
 
Can't help but notice that he's done 1000 reviews yesterday and today, and the total has dropped from 2k to 2k
9
 
@DavidBuck You can flag as VLQ again, but you should also consider either telling the user what they have done wrong or asking mods to hand out a review suspension
 
@TylerH Maybe @SamuelLiew is in for a cookie ?
 
I mean, that does sound delicious
 
1:59 PM
@TylerH Gotta flag more so he can do that instead :P
 
@DavidBuck It's hopeless, I tell you...
better quit while I'm behind
 
@Machavity good idea... maybe I should downvote ChrisF's meta request instead of upvoting it...
 
2:11 PM
 
I'm thinking this Question about how to do something in a C++ IDE looks fine. Any reason why it shouldn't be?
 
M--
2:23 PM
I have a raised a flag as such: "I have closed the question for another thread with multiple answers; questions are so simple that no domain knowledge of R is needed to make sure they are the same. However, the gold badger reopened the question in favor of the answer they have posted here. This is a clear abuse of their privilege.

Update: Now they've deleted their answer, which I downvoted merely based on its quality, and did cast an Unclear close vote which is not right (question was clear but just a dupe). Disturbing behavior! – M-- Sep 4 at 15:32 helpful"
 
2:34 PM
@M-- Is worth the extra work involved just for an extra duplicate?
 
M--
@Braiam Yes and No. Extra dupe, whatever. Mod handling the situation incorrectly in my eyes, as it is the 3rd+ time in the last month or so, yes it worth it
 
@M-- I'm not sure why this happened, but apparently some feel that "Closed is closed", which I do not agree with.
I don't think flagging is going to help though.
 
@M-- Meh, your call, I only do actions that result into a net positive outcome.
 
M--
@Scratte "closed is closed" is sometimes fine though. Too broad and unclear and No MCVE, they are not the same, but I won't make a fuss about those. Here my flag specifically says gold-badger have a disturbing behavior by abusing their privilege to get more reps and when they failed, flagged as whatever they desired... yet the moderator followed their footstep
@Braiam positive outcome for me would be understanding the mod's train of thoughts, that's more important to me
 
What place is right to ask this kind of questions? exactly this question.
 
2:42 PM
@M-- Again, your call. I don't bother.
 
M--
@SMUsamaShah put a dot or something before the link!!!
@SMUsamaShah You'll have a better luck discussing this here: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/139/java
 
Zoe
@M-- Not really
It's a moderation thing, not a Java thing
 
@SMUsamaShah It was closed as a duplicate so SO was likely a good place to ask it
 
@SMUsamaShah The question was closed as a duplicate which would indicate that you have asked it in the right place. What exactly is on your mind? This room deals with user-level moderation. We review questions that need to be deleted or closed. If you require help with Java then you can either join JAVA chatroom or look for answers on the main site. Asking for Java help is going to be considered disruptive in this room
 
I was expecting it to be closed anyway
 
M--
2:46 PM
@SMUsamaShah :/ :O :O
 
@Dharman Got it. Thanks.
 
@M-- I think the mod closed as unclear because you already casted that vote. They might not read thoroughly (so many flags) your explanation, that's it, no?
 
@SMUsamaShah If you're asking why it's closed, I'd say the essence of your Question was answered in the comments. The rest is a duplicate.
 
@SMUsamaShah However, beware that asking why something was done in X language this way and not another is the right question to be asked only to the designers of the language. We might not know the answer on Stack Overflow or the answer might be "It is what it is"
 
A lot of times experienced developers have answered similar questions in great depth. But it's rare for those developers to stumble upon these questions. I can only pray for them to see it or find it interesting enough to answer before it gets closed.
 
2:50 PM
@M-- To be honest, I've seen a few duplicate Questions being closed for other reasons lately and it bothers me. If you feel inclined to ask it on meta, I'd be happy to read it :)
 
M--
@Vega I haven't cast that vote. If mods don't read our flags, because it takes time, then I'll be damned if I keep moderating this site.
4
 
No worries. Better luck another time, or may be I will learn to ask it in a more interesting/catching way
 
@M-- I thought you said: < '(I)... did cast an Unclear close vote which is not right '
 
@SMUsamaShah There is no catching way really. It's based on things that no one except a few designers can answer. That your Question is closed as a duplicate is just ..lucky.
 
@Vega That was the other gold-badger
 
2:53 PM
Confusing :)
 
M--
@Scratte I'll post it by the end of today, in between meetings right now. Will ping you if that's ok
 
@M-- That's always OK :) Ping me anytime.
 
M--
@Vega I accept that, it's on me, trying to say it all through limited characters. But Mod can see who's voted, at least after closing (not sure if they can see before that or not). Besides, what concerns me is this part of your argument: "They might not read thoroughly (so many flags) your explanation"
 
@M-- I was confused, I didn't comment on the mod. Regarding my argument, I will not comment more than it happens to me all the time
 
@M-- I don't have specific information about the handling of this flag. I don't know if there was miscommunication, the mod felt differently, or never saw the flag. What I suspect happened is that your flag was automatically cleared when the question was closed as the result of a Close Vote Review action. The moderator probably never saw your flag. I have personally seen a custom mod-flag marked helpful based only on my closing the question.
 
3:21 PM
I have a small list of posts that were flagged as duplicates that went the same way. Perhaps this can be handled differently than taking it to meta.
 
M--
@Makyen moderator closed the question as unclear, so I doubt that's the case.
 
@M-- Why do you doubt that was the case?
The moderator definitely did a Close Vote Review. When doing that review, which closed the question, they would have had no information about your flag. Your flag was marked helpful simultaneously with the question being closed. On another question, I've personally seen a custom mod-flag automatically marked helpful as the result of my closing the question, with no other action on my part. I consider it highly likely that's what happened with your flag.
 
M--
OK, now it makes sense, I thought you mean somebody else (not a mod) has cast a CV and that resulted in marking my flag as helpful.
 
@M-- your flag wasn't seen before it was closed via the review queue, because there is no mod info about the post in the review queues. Question closure no matter where it was closed from marks all flags on it as helpful. This is by-design.
 
Would be nice for mods to see mod info on review pages tho
 
M--
3:34 PM
@TylerH Very nice, it'd be
@SamuelLiew @Makyen Thanks for the explanation and update... I was really concerned. We even discussed the possibility of ignorant diamond who doesn't read the flags thoroughly, may God forgive our sins :D
 
Isn't the elephant in the room now that it was closed? As needing details. I mean one close vote on a post doesn't mean that it should be closed.
 
@Scratte Why not? Mods can cast binding votes and normal users can too in some cases
 
@Scratte I'm unsure where you're going with this. If you're talking about the question with the custom mod-flag, nobody has argued that the question shouldn't be closed, just that a different reason could/should be used.
 
@TylerH So what you're saying is that one doesn't even need to read the post when there's a close vote on it, because that vote must be correct?
 
I, personally, have not evaluated the question for closure, so I do not have an opinion on it.
@Scratte Where are you getting that? The question was reviewed in the CV review queue. There's no indication that the moderator didn't fully review the question.
 
3:48 PM
@Makyen If you say so.
 
@Scratte I'll second Makyen's question: where the heck did you get "users don't need to read the question before voting on it" from "we let some users unilaterally close questions in certain cases"?
 
Do we reopen posts here to close them as duplicates?
 
@Scratte In general, no. We have done in a small number of cases where there's demonstrated value to doing so (i.e. the question may be a good signpost). Usually, we've only done so where there's a gold badge holder around to hammer the question closed.
 
@Makyen I wasn't aware that they could change the close reason.
 
edit the duplicate list you mean?
 
3:55 PM
No. Questions closed for other reasons that are duplicates.
 
@Scratte Nobody, other than a developer (maybe a CM?) can directly change the close reason. It has to be reopened and then it can be closed again.
 
OK. Then I think I do not want to send more posts to the queue.
 
@Scratte Why? I'm really not following your reasoning here.
@Scratte Oh, and which queue do you mean (e.g. CV review queue? Reopen queue? one of the other review queues)?
 
The close vote queue. I found the Question in question to be clear. If it wasn't, then I guess I was wrong. I've seen other posts that I find to be fine getting closed. I've found posts that both I and others found to be duplicates, that are not closed as duplicates. I'm getting worried about it. I can't edit a clear post into being clear nor a focused one into being focused, which means if it's already fine, then once it's closed, it's the end of it.
 
@Scratte The solution is to get to 3,000 reputation (something you've said you want to avoid in the past, IIRC, for some reason) so that you can cast a reopen vote on such questions if you think they should be reopened.
 
4:07 PM
@TylerH That is not a solution at all. I can't go and monitor the queue.. and I cannot possibly cast enough votes to keep up
But what I can do is stop sending post to the close vote queue.
 
not sending any questions to the close vote queue because you notice a few of them get closed for inaccurate reasons is cutting off your nose to spite your face
@Scratte You should have plenty of votes for the volume of posts you see issues with
If you see more than 40 questions a day that you think are getting incorrectly closed then you should raise the issue on Meta, because that's quite a high number.
 
@TylerH I'm just seeing the tip of the iceberg. And it's also a question of preference I suppose. Having bad Questions with un-searchable titles is not a problem for me in practice. Having posts with good answers getting closed and deleted is.
 
But simply refusing to participate in a system because it is possibly slightly imperfect is... not very productive.
 
@Scratte In general, the point of view has been that it takes a considerable additional work to change the close reason on a question. It used to be that you'd have to find up to ten people to do all the voting required to reopen and then re-close (depending who's already voted in one direction or another).
Now, with gold badge holders, you might reasonably only need 3 people (3 to reopen, one of whom is a gold badge holder, who can hammer it closed), so it's probably reasonable for it to happen a bit more often.
 
Participating is making me sad, Tyler. I'm willingly part of the problem. I take my time to read a post to find out how it should go. Seeing other doing it in 10 seconds while being wrong about their choice is just not sitting well with me at all. And even when I find something is way off, I can't do anything about it.. I can just sit here and watch it.
 
4:15 PM
@Scratte You can do something about it, you're just choosing not to.
 
Fixing mistakes doesn't scale. One post here, maybe another post there..
@TylerH I cannot. I can't watch the result of all the posts, can I?
 
@Scratte Then, you should get to 3k rep, so you can actually do something about it. If you could vote to close, then two other people would have to disagree with you in order for it to be closed as a different reason. If you saw that something was incorrectly closed, then you could directly do something about it.
 
@Scratte What do you think the point of this room is? We exist exactly to fix a problem at scale.
@Scratte No, but voters don't look at and close vote all posts either; every voter closes/votes on/flags a post or comment the same way: one at a time.
 
The whole "closed is closed" and "duplicates can be closed as anything because there's a link is the sidebar" is not something I can change. It's an opinion about what's OK. I disagree with it. It's not making me happy.
 
If you get 3k rep you can cast 40 reopen votes a day on posts and get a large number of them in the reopen queue. If you find an issue with a lot of them then as I said, bring it up on Meta and the community can get involved with such a problem.
@Scratte I'm not sure what you are referring to by those quotes.
 
4:19 PM
Those were my interpretation of statements made. They're not quotes.
 
@Scratte Other than duplicates, how much difference does it make between having a question closed for one reason and you commenting on the question that you think that it really should be another reason, why, and what you feel should be changed in the question to make it on-topic, vs. the question being closed for another reason?
 
@Makyen Reputation is irrelevant here. No amount of reputation will help..
 
@Scratte OK, well actually quoting (or linking to) the things you're referencing would be helpful. I doubt the interpretation you've provided is what was intended.
 
@Scratte That's just not true. At 3k rep you can cast a reopen vote, which will put the question in the reopen queue, unless it's already there. You also can cast actual close-votes, which actually affect the reason used for closing a question.
 
@Makyen I do the commenting, sure. But that's not what I see in the Triage queue. The most proficient close voters in that queue doesn't even hint at why they put their vote and I'm often puzzled by it and even more so when it gets closed. I've learned to not review a post in triage if it has a vote. I chicken out on posts that I find fine because I know I have to.
 
4:24 PM
@Scratte Why do you have to?
 
It's always better to skip then to make a wrong decision. If you are not sure then let someone else decide
 
M--
I'm still gonna post a thread on MSO about this question. It will be a request for a feature to let the moderators see the flag in the queue and maybe disable the auto-marking the flag when the question is closed. Imagine one flags the question for abusive/rude comments. They will also be ignored if the question is closed. That's not ideal.
 
@Dharman I not unsure about thinking the post is fine. I just know that it will get closed anyway. If it has the one vote so that's the way it will go. And once the post is closed, even if it shouldn't have been, a suspension always follow.
 
@M-- why would such flags be ignored? They will still be seen in the mod flag queue
 
M--
@TylerH Maybe I am mistaken, but @Makyen said they will be marked as helpful because the question gets closed. Am I wrong?
 
4:28 PM
@M-- That sounds like two FRs, or one FR and a bug report, not just one.
 
M--
Coffee
 
@M-- You are correct in the two examples I've seen. There may be counter examples, but I've definitely seen one and this more recent one is what I infer happened.
@M-- Thanks.
 
@M-- Why is it outdated?
 
@TylerH "Closed is closed" can be found 1, 2, 3, 4 ..you can just search chat.
 
M--
@Dharman There are new tools and updates available since the question is being asked.
 
4:35 PM
When it comes to SAP I would be very careful saying something is outdated.
 
M--
@Dharman OK, but it should be still deleted because of the other reasons that I've listed? (genuinely asking)
 
@Scratte Neither of those things is assured. If you are sure that something should remain open, then you should mark it as "Looks OK", or "Remain Open" (in the CV queue, once you have access). That you don't, makes it more likely it will be closed. Even if you are suspended from reviewing, then if you really felt your response was correct, then you can explain that.
I often was/am the person that was saying something "Looks OK" in the LQP or Triage review queues when other people were saying "Recommend Delete" or "close". There's nothing inherently wrong with that, as long as you're sure of your position.
 
@M-- Yeah, I voted cause POB
 
M--
!!/brew
 
@M-- No such command 'brew'.
 
M--
4:38 PM
there was such command once, right?
 
!!/coffee M--
 
@AdrianMole brews a cup of Cappuccino for @M--
 
M--
Ahhhhhhh, right
 
There used to be others (like "beer") but they were removed for reasons of underage drinking. :-)
 
4:40 PM
@Scratte Again, if you feel that a question should be closed, but is closed for the wrong reason, why does it matter (other than duplicates that could be good signposts)? If you feel that it should be closed for another reason, then leave a comment on the question saying why and what specific things you feel should be changed/added. Such a comment is usually significantly more helpful to the OP than the text provided as a close reason.
 
I think we had a brief version of this discussion yesterday (or day before). Personally, I think it would be nice for Gold-Hammers (and mods) to be able to change a close reason from one of the others to a duplicate. But, as others have said, changing between those other reasons is, IMHO, less important.
2
 
@Makyen But that will still get me suspended. And then I have to wait 30 days to review again after the suspension. How is that any different from just stopping with review? Except maybe to get a few "Looks OK" in every 34 days.
 
M--
@Scratte If you're suspended incorrectly, you can object, can't you?
 
^ that
 
I prefer expanding the unilateral close to all close reasons for gold badgers.
 
4:43 PM
@M-- That is also a process, no? I can, but maybe or maybe not it will be lifted. And even if it's lifted, it's still on my record, that I can't even see myself.
The thing is that it takes a lot less effort to spend a few minutes on a review to be sure. Than it takes for someone to go through the process of getting un-suspending and reopening a closed Questions.
 
M--
@Scratte There should be a process, don't you agree? We can ask for a feature request to get a clean slate but I don't think that's really important. We're not gonna get higher rates for our mortgage because of our record on SO :D
 
@M-- That's a good point(?) I also do not get higher rates on my mortgage for reviewing..
 
@Scratte now you tell me ... so these 59K close reviews don't give me a better deal?
 
@M-- In fact.. any curating activity I perform here is time away from paying the mortgage. So when I do any work here, I prefer it to be worth my time.
 
@Scratte Well, my experience was different. I almost never made the choice to skip a review just because I was going to be in the minority, or the only person voting one way, and I was never banned from reviewing. If I had been wrong and was called out about it, then I would have accepted that I was wrong, and either served out the suspension, or explained that I'd learned from the experience (which is the primary point of review suspensions), and perhaps a moderator would lift the suspension.
 
M--
4:49 PM
@Scratte I guess you mean lower rates... well, no, you don't. But that's another issue. Why do we all moderate SO? Do we get paid or get highly appreciated? Why does anything exist at all?? :D
3
 
@Braiam I'm sure that's been discussed before on Meta. Personally, I don't think that is necessarily a good road to walk down, as it would potentially be subject to abuse. A Question closed for the non-duplicate reasons is implicitly a poor post, and only mods should have a unilateral right to mark it as such. However, many Questions closed as duplicates are actually good and well-researched, in their own right.
 
@M-- It's like a hobby.. for me anyway. So, when it activity makes me sad, it's time to stop, no?
 
As already was mentioned find better shows on Netflix :P
 
@AdrianMole "as it would potentially be subject to abuse" so would be electing moderators, or allowing gold badges to unilaterally close question. The end result is the same, the asker is denied of answers on their question. And duplicate is actually a bigger bogus reason of closing, since people claim whatever is duplicate and is your fault for not seeing it, while other reasons are more clear cut and less objectionable.
 
@rene "I am applying for this sales job because I am really good at closing things" Sounds legit
8
 
M--
4:53 PM
@Scratte Oh God yes. I deeply hope you won't get sad over doing anything, letting alone something that you can skip. If you feel frustrated or sad about it, you shall stop immediately. Speaking for myself (and probably many others here), we'll be sad to see you go and stop moderating the site, but if it's better for you, then who am I to speak?!!
 
@Scratte we're all here in our free / spare time. We spend it here because all the other less sad things have run out.
 
M--
@Braiam Benefit/Cost
 
@rene I know it's the overall argument. Does it work though? Most bad Questions have horrible irrelevant titles.
 
@Scratte yes, so?
 
@Makyen Was there a campaign going while you did them?
 
4:55 PM
@Machavity I'm hired then?
 
@rene Sorry.. missed the joke :)
 
@M-- For me, there's only upsides. Heck, gold badger prefer using the duplicate wrong because they want the question closed now. That's a pretty heavy benefit in my books.
 
@rene Sure thing! Here's your inventory of freezers and a list of numbers in the Arctic circle. Good luck!
 
@rene I don't have less sad things that have run out. I'm only here to improve on things. I don't like people taking shortcuts. I don't like it encourages either. I think it makes it worse, not better..
 
@Scratte If you mean: "were you running in a moderator campaign when you did the reviews?", then: I think that the only reviews I did while actually running for moderator were suggested edit reviews on posts which I saw from question pages. However, doing or not doing reviews during those times is really not something I paid attention to. I definitely didn't pay any attention to if I was doing reviews during campaigns where I wasn't running.
Hmmm... actually, I don't really remember about the first time I ran. I really didn't pay attention to if I was doing reviews or not during elections.
 
5:04 PM
@Makyen No. That's not what I meant :) I meant was there any one actively seeing out reviewers to suspend them as a mission :)
 
@Scratte I don't like people taking shortcuts. one tip: do not let your fun in life be determined based on what other people do. You can't control them. You only have control over your own actions, behavior, communication. Focus on that, it is plenty to get that right, I'm still trying.
 
@rene I have to in this case. I posted a Question here. It had one close vote on it. I didn't do the review, because despite the fact that I found the Question to be fine, I'd probably be suspended for it. So I actively avoided getting it right. I expect the Question to get closed during the next 6-8.
And you are absolutely right. I cannot control it. I just get sad and feel hopeless. And no amount of reputation on my account would change the path that post is on now.
 
@rene Being german is rough...
no, wait, that's is bart
 
@Scratte Then, relatively few. OTOH, I would have been, in considerable retrospect, happy about getting suspended for clicking "Requires Editing", because I definitely didn't understand that was only for when the community could resolve it. [At the time, I was doing what the review popup said, which explicitly said that it was for edits by the community or the OP, IIRC. I was very frustrated to find out that I had been lead into doing those wrong for a long time by bad UI text.]
 
5:13 PM
@Braiam ... so is calling a Dutch flower "German."
 
@Makyen That's a different scenario. I'm talking about clicking the right button :) I can find an example for you.
 
@AdrianMole Cut me some slack, I can't see the flower clearly :D
 
I had a friend, once! He had a pet German Shepherd. Ruff!
 
@Makyen Everyone on this review got it right. But I do not believe that no one was suspended.
 
5:31 PM
@Scratte Are you saying that both "Requires Editing" and "Unsalvageable" were correct responses there, due to the reviews happening on different revisions of the question? If you feel someone was incorrectly banned from review, then, please, bring it up in a way that will actually bring it to the attention of the moderators and the community. Just sitting back and being frustrated about it is harmful to yourself and the community.
All moderators are trying to do a conscientious job. However, we're all human and do make mistakes from time to time. While it's not fun to have places where we've acted be called into question, it's necessary and good for both the individuals involved and the community for that to happen. Not bringing something up is largely the same as agreeing with it, or at least acquiescing to it. As for moderators, being called out on Meta is a normal part of the job.
2
 
Etiquette question: I recently made a dupe search for a question, and found none really satisfying, so I wrote my own answer.
Would it be OK to use my dupehammer to close these in the list below?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ You had a soft return in the text, so Markdown formatting was not applied.
 
1, 2, 3, 4
@Makyen Yeah I know, fixed that now.
 
@Makyen Yes. That's what I'm saying. They were. "Unsalvageable" was correct until information was added to the post. At that point "Requires Editing" was the correct choice. The post was unfortunately closed, but upon an edit (not by author) reopened. It should have gone to the Help & Improvement queue.
 
@M-- I see, so you want the content to be deleted in this case rather than just the flag not getting 'handled' by the system
 
5:43 PM
To add up upon what I said above. Some of them propose some ridiculosly long and overcomplicated answers. Including fancy template and boost stuff.
 
@Makyen I don't know for a fact if anyone was suspended. I think it would be a little strange for me to go on a mission for un-suspending a user that I'm not even sure was suspended.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I would say Yes, until Meta explodes because of you doing that.
 
LOL, I'll bring the popcorn :)
 
@Scratte Then you could either contact the user and ask, or raise a moderator flag explaining the situation.
 
5:48 PM
@Makyen I could. I think I don't do that because I don't have enough time to find them all. This is just one post.
But I have also tried to raise concern that anyone can go through the review queue getting the badge fast by just close voting/flagging everything that's not an audit. 40 reviews in less than 10 minutes is easily done that way. One doesn't even need to read the posts. Looking at profiles, I do not believe no one is doing that.
And when this happens and the one close vote is used as the measure to determine if the post gets closed, then it's a dangerous path to pick any other choice.
 
As I said before, if you can't even use close votes, this would have little overall effect.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ You mean it's fine to suspend low-reputation users because they don't do much anyway?
 
I gave up working on the queues long time ago.
shrug
 
@Scratte I expect there are some people who do do that. Other than making audits better, the way to counter that is to have more people performing reviews conscientiously and/or have people like yourself who go through the review record and actually do something effective when they see a problem, or think they see a problem.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I suppose you just told me that I'm right to just stop any curating activity..
 
5:55 PM
@Scratte for who is it dangerous?
 
@Scratte Well, you probably just draw too much attention to yourself. That's not always good.
 
@Makyen More people. I'm just one person.. I cannot counter what is being done and the way it's going means everyone (through suspension) is pushed to opt for closure rather than leaving a good post open.
 
Same as with edit sprees.
 
@rene User that don't like supensions.
 
Yeah, no one likes that. (I know what I am talking about)
 
5:58 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ back-off a bit, please.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't really fear attention. My account is disposable. Like most other things in life. The only exception is my own life.. when that is disposed it's all gone :)
 
@rene Well, I'll give it a try. I can't see any bad that could happen ;)
@rene LOL nope!
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I meant review-suspensions. I may upset people, But I do not think I've done anything that violates the rules or any conduct. If I've done anything that's worthy of an account-suspension I haven't been told so.
 
Let's take @rene's advice and leave that discussion :)
 
@sideshowbarker is it just me or is the website in that question not loading
 
M--
6:10 PM
@TylerH not sure if I understand your interpretation of my intent :)
 
@M-- You are concerned that red flags won't get handled if the question they're on/within gets closed. I thought you meant handled as in not marked helpful. But it seems you mean "actually reviewed by a mod".
 
M--
@TylerH right, exactly
 
6:25 PM
I just gave this answer an NAA flag ... but is it spam? Brand-new user 'advertising' a website ... but it seems harmless enough.
 
@M-- I have not seen red flags be marked helpful by closure. However, I haven't looked for that. The flags which we've seen be marked helpful upon a mod closing the question are VLQ, Close, and custom. I'd say that VLQ and Close flags should be marked helpful at that time, but that custom flags (and red flags, obviously) should not be marked helpful form just closure.
 
@DavidBuck Is that a two for one? That question right below it seems like a NAA.
 
@code11 just flagged it and was deleted by a mod
 
@Machavity Well, now lets see how many [status-bydesign] have to be changed to [status-complete]
 
@code11 I flagged that first before reading the question
 
6:47 PM
Gotcha
 
M--
@Makyen I meant custom flags not red flags... from time to time I flag the question instead of red-flagging comments one by one. Agreed with how you laid it out to be
 
@Braiam They updated a lot of the status tags back in August, so it's certainly something they are looking at.
 
M--
Should this be closed and deleted? stackoverflow.com/questions/63401804/…
 
@M-- i would say so
 
meta is down.. meta is back :D
 
7:41 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Roomba will eat that one ... is there a need for urgency?
 
Incidentally if Meta seems crazier than normal, that's because the CMs are burning down the backlog of escalations. Stuff is getting done
6
 
@AdrianMole shrug no, not really. Just annoying.
 
I'll have a look again if I have any DVs left nearer the end of the day. :)
@Machavity Not just CMs, it seems. There are some "Big Names" in the list there!
 
It's an "all hands on deck" thing. I've seen some different names popping up in the list of responders
 
@Machavity Isn't animuson a CM?
 
7:47 PM
He's a diamond-holding staff member but not actually a CM.
 
@Braiam A dev, not a CM
 
@ChristopherMoore Please do not include the pointed-to duplicate in your request. Leave it in a comment on the post if it's not there already.
 
animuson, Adam Lear, Taryn, Yaakov Ellis and Ben Kelley. I'm sure there's more Devs than that too
 
8:03 PM
@TylerH not a dev either. He does servicedesk. He is one of the persons behind the /contact form.
 
8:22 PM
@rene oh really
 
8:49 PM
Wow, does that mean that I can expect some long-due suspensions to be handed out soon?
 
@Dharman Well, is "Overburdening our moderator team with 150 flags per day" a reason for suspension? ;-)
 
shush...
 
9:07 PM
@Machavity Hopefully they are all just announcing implementations of stuff they've been extra busy on while stuck working at home with nothing else to do except implement things like blocks against asking questions containing phrases like "what is the best practice"...
...one can dream...
 
There's hope they will improve chat soon...
 
9:36 PM
@Dharman That's dev, not CM responsibility.
And chat was literally written by one person, so it is hidden away in a bunker, in case someone touch the code again.
 
@Braiam I know, check timestamps. These were two separate conversations. Devs announced a series of improvements on Meta today
 
 
1 hour later…
10:48 PM
Apparently that Flutter question is a duplicate of "Flutter - Row of buttons with first and last having rounded end shape". OP self-answered with post that's just a link to that question.

Any way we can close as a duplicate of that instead of the find/rec reason?
 
@BSMP Of course. You are free to disagree with my cv-pls however you like. I was going to vote as a duplicate, but off-topic seemed more suitable and if no answer gets accepted roomba will delete it whereas roomba will not delete duplicate question with answers
 
@Dharman Ah, I didn't know that about duplicate closures.
 
11:04 PM
Could someone who can see deleted answers please send me the link to the LQP review for this stackoverflow.com/questions/63687362/…
 
11:42 PM
 
@DavidBuck This one ??
 
@AdrianMole Yes, thanks.
 

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