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12:01 AM
I agree that the edit that put up the advertising copy is problematic. I'm unable to justify why the others aren't without getting into user details, though, and I share your desire not to bring specific user information into the room.
My advice is simply: when flagging, focus on the bad content, why it's bad (with links to evidence where appropriate), and if the user(s) adding the bad content has/have added other bad content (also with links). Including related users who did not directly contribute to the bad content you want distracts from that and may result in the flag not being handled as expected (i.e., deleting the bad content).
 
Here is the link containing the exact text given in the last tag wiki: docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powerapps/maker/canvas-apps/… This link was already given in that tag.
I assumed the moderator would check this, which is what they did, as stated in the last message in the response.
 
I think the moderator's repsonse of "I wouldn't call it plagiarism" matches my reaction that it's almost too short/simple to be plagiarism, especially given the link to the source.
 
It’s still two paragraps, and the entire suggestion was a pure copy from the docs (except the links).
But, yes, you’re probably right about the moderator’s reaction.
 
The one we discussed earlier, though, is a different story: several paragraphs of exact copy-pasted marketing copy from external sources with no attribution. Linking to the sources of that would probably, I suspect, have resulted in its deletion.
 
I didn’t find the sources on that, but it was still clearly advertising.
As you see in the edit description; I didn’t write that it was plagiarism, and neither stated that in the flag. I only did that on the last one.
So, yes, had I known about the source, I would’ve linked to that as well, and added «plagiarism» (and the link) to the edit description for the first tag.
Thanks for finding that article, btw.
 
12:18 AM
No problem. It smelled fishy, and I doubted anyone had bothered writing marketing copy just for SO...
 
One never knows...
@AdrianMole Also; now that I ended up doing everything on mobile after all; yes, the new tag wiki is much better. I still disagree about rejecting my edit, though, even without the article Ryan linked to.
This is because clear advertising should be taken down.
Now, as you have the link to the other tag wiki as well: based on the text itself, being of a much less problematic state, in terms of «clear advertising», I would agree with rejecting that. However, considering it’s a pure copy from the docs, I’d disagree. Also, taking the fact that all the users are from the same company into mind, that is even one more reason to have that content deleted. It is a bit hard knowing if it’s plagiarism, as it could’ve been the same user writing the docs.
Personally, I feel the discussion has been settled, and do accept that we will to a certain degree disagree.
If there still is more to be said, we should probably take that in another room, like The Ministry of Silly Hats, as we’re moving into already in the area of user moderation.
Now I’d appreciate some sleep. Good night. :)
 
g'night o/
 
 
3 hours later…
4:00 AM
@RyanM Good night, it's Friday did you, or did you not?! Have a sufficient amount of Red Wine to night?
@RyanM if, indeed, something smelled fishing. The obvious problem was lack of good wine.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:45 AM
@bad_coder heads-up that you are reviewing LQP incorrectly: you should not be voting to delete answers just because they are code-only. examples: 1, 2, 3, 4
 
@RyanM Oops :D. I'll have to stop doing that.
Is a flag ratio(helpful to declined) of 372:9 good?
 
@10Rep It's pretty decent, especially given that I suspect most people make the most flagging mistakes early on (I know I did).
It is certainly no cause for concern in itself
 
 
2 hours later…
 
 
9:47 AM
Please advise on appropriate action for stackoverflow.com/questions/63313017/…
 
10:07 AM
 
10:30 AM
@RyanM those were among the better ones...In any case, the apples and oranges thread doesn't fully describe the VLQ procedures.
@RyanM Ohh wait, you are saying I shouldn't have voted to delete a 2-liner without an explanation in a thread that already has 24 answers, and was posted by a 1 rep...E.g. this one, nº4 in your pick
@RyanM trust me, I'm not the problematic reviewer on the VLQ. The sheer amount of uninterested unexplained unnecessary posts that get a "looks ok" there just because someone looked at the apples&oranges briefly, once....
 
@Dharman I was too quick to vote no MCVE. It is a dupe.
 
@Nick I had thought of answering that. Somewhat different.. but I actually just wanted to close it.
 
10:48 AM
@Scratte if you know of a dupe feel free to vtc and I'll hammer and delete my answer.
 
@Nick I don't.. SQL is such a pain to find duplicate targets in. But I wanted to close it for lack of clarity. How you do know they don't want the 3 to come up in the result, but without the sum to consider 3's? :)
 
I don't think the question qualifies for any of the usual VTC reasons. There is an MRE (I made my fiddle from it) and I think the problem is pretty clear. They are quite specific in their query (WHERE t1.SomeNumt>3) and their sample output. I will edit in the expected output from the comment
 
@Nick No.. it's fine :) I just get a bit pedantic with these things.
 
@RyanM Gosh I manage to do a better job reviewing while drunk than a lot of folks do while sober :) I remember more than 1 RO (elsewhere, not on SOCVR) trolling me about such matters. And they obviously had read less meta posts on the subject than me. A lesson not to mind just anyone who might have an inflated self-conception because they equate rep to ability.
 
From their comment, it wasn't clear if the first occurrence was the one from 2 or one from 3. Which set my "Urgh!"-emotion to go ON. :)
 
10:53 AM
@Scratte I completely understand that one!
 
But I did make a very long fiddle to explain all the different outcomes. I'll keep it as a private treasure :D
 
@Scratte yeah - MySQL tends to be like that. If only everyone was using version 8...
 
I think I did it on an 8.0. Because.. they also forgot to specify the version ;)
I just noticed your edit. You'll get in trouble with them, if that's not the expectation :D
 
@Scratte my experience is that that pretty much always means 5.6 (although recently I saw a 5.1!). Every so often someone has got to 5.7 but 8.0 is just so much more compatible with "real" SQL...
 
Thanks. I'll make my default to be 5.7 when doing fiddles from now on.
 
11:02 AM
@Scratte their comment (pretty much) says that is their expectation... I'm pretty confident they won't complain.
Time will tell though... I'm never averse to the delete button if required...
 
@Nick Hmm.. it strikes me ass odd that when they want the accumulated sum, that they do not want the id=3 accumulated sum as well (just without any values from it). But I'll keep an eye on it :)
I think you'll be able to make a quick edit, so no need to remove anything.
 
I'm off to the movies (a quick walk to the home theatre :) I'll check back in afterwards...
 
11:21 AM
 
@janw definitely
@tripleee Do you want to keep this or should we delete it?
 
@AdrianMole I had some monstrous 2 year old Syrah (as you call it) yesterday...A friends produce that weighed in at over 16º alcohol after harvest. He went with an unadulterated blend and that wine exhaled alcohol from several feet of distance. What a bomb and an exaggeration....In any case, we were unsatisfied and took its relative merits for what they are.
 
@MrUpsidown Last activity on this was 2 years ago.
 
So what?
 
11:35 AM
Yeah ok just read it.
How should we handle that kind of questions then? IMO, whether it's 1 month old or 5 years old... it should still be closed. @oguzismail
 
Well I don't know, I'd just move on as there are thousands of such questions.
 
@MrUpsidown You can only put your vote on it and hope for the best in the queue.
 
@oguzismail that's not a really helpful advice tbh. I know there are thousands of questions like that. Still we should do something IMO. @Scratte OK, thanks.
 
Is this artificial-intelligence Question possibly someone's ill asked Question or.. is it a little too "canned meat"y?
 
How to handle seemingly a purely math question such as find the big theta notation of harmonic series with log?
 
11:50 AM
@Scratte voted for closure
 
It does look a gibberish, so R/A?
 
user12867493
All my userscripts stopped working, it says they are executing but it does nothing. Any ideas?
 
@Daniil Mine were a little slow for a moment due to ..something being slow. They're back now.
 
@MarioGalic custom CV - not about programming
 
@Vega Which? "mine"? I read it, it's not gibberish.
 
11:52 AM
Yours :) Ok, will not flag :( :D
 
My "gibberish" post is readable. Though I will not sign up for the course, as "University Gujranwala" would be quite a long commute ;)
 
It is closer to me, but I am not going to sign up either
 
I thought you were in France :)
 
@desertnaut Ah I see one must use other category. Previously I incorrectly flagged for moderation.
 
@Scratte French, but not in France right now :)
 
11:57 AM
@Daniil The site is pretty slow today for me, too
Just got an "The service is unavailable."
 
@Vega Ahh.. and you're not actually in outer space either then, shining a little light our way :)
Yes!.. just got a Haskell question.. and passed the audit :D
3
 
Intermittent "unavailable" and/or very slow response times.
 
@janw Me too. Wasn't sure if it was my wifi as having trouble with that too, but SO is not performing well.
 
same here - too slow
 
I think Stack Overflow is currently not flowing well on the internet..
 
12:01 PM
Same here, UK
 
Seem to recall an announcement that something would be happening today (08/08).
 
MY LIFE IS ON HOLD
NEED TO FEED EDIT ADDICTION
 
I'm almost sure the flower will tell us about the flowing though..
 
Maybe it is some new innovative approach for rate limiting?
 
... Re-consolidating the server-side socket stack, or some such gobbledygook.
 
12:02 PM
@AdrianMole Just realized it's 08082020. Looks pretty :)
 
@ArghyaSadhu Don't forget to add a close reason with your requests where you can.
Bah, wrong ping
 
Unless you're an American, in which case it's 08082020
7
 
lol! I've got bits of Apple all over my keyboard and monitor now :D
 
@halfer Don't forget to ping the right person.
 
@AdrianMole I hadn't thought of that! {grin}
I'm being clumsy today
 
12:04 PM
@Scratte 😊
 
@halfer yeah sure..got lazy in this case
 
YYYYMMDD FTW
 
12:32 PM
Well.. I suggest not posting while Stack is having a bad day
 
... dunno. If upvotes are counted twice, then that's not all bad.
 
1:06 PM
The chat.so/search timedout (504) for me, does it happens to any of you?
 
I suppose this is a bad time to stalk old chat messages. I'm "me-too"-ing your "504 Gateway Time-out" :)
 
1:21 PM
"Thanks in advance" is such a good ending to a Question, that it's now appreciated with TIA :)
 
@Scratte You haven't seen Tanks in advantage yet?
 
@Braiam Don't need to. Same abbreviation ;)
 
1:42 PM
looks like search is offline in SO as well `Oh no! Search is currently offline.

This is usually because we let the gerbils out for 10 seconds longer than we should have, or are actively improving our search results and needed to take things offline while we re-index this site. Hang tight and we'll return search to you as soon as possible.`
 
@Nkosi See tweet from Nick Craver: twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/1292086149989699587
 
Is that 2983% CPU load?.. I wish I could do that to my brain and still be running.
 
@Scratte Your brain is probably OC'ed to the red line. The brain self regulate the speed in which process information until it reaches maximum performance, before it starts being unstable.
TL;dr: our brains are on the brink of a epileptic episode :D
 
1:59 PM
Oh no! Search is currently offline.
Might as well do some actual work...
 
It's online here
 
^ Why didn't SmokeDetector report this one? It was detected
 
Good question. I guess it must have separate criteria for what it actually raises over here. Charcoal's probably the best place to ask.
 
2:18 PM
@Braiam What's "OC"? :)
 
@Scratte Overclocked, probably :)
 
I reviewed this python recommendation-engine as opinion based, but now.. I'm not so sure. Any one familiar with this?
@janw Oh.. I tried to tune it into a quartz frequency by sleeping on top of a giant rose crystal, but I didn't really feel any changes, except a stiff neck ;) I was told the rose crystals could tune into my computer and monitor and remove bad vibrations, so I figured I could use to just get a direct brain-to-computer interface.
 
@Scratte That question is quite broad.
 
@janw Ok. So it's not opinion based? I did get that feeling when they replied to me.
 
@Scratte That could fit, too. But as they aren't asking about a specific problem, "needs more focus" works as well.
I believe that these close reasons all have quite some overlap
 
2:25 PM
@Scratte Was your flag helpful?
@janw I usually use the term: pick your poison.
 
wouldn't "pick your venom" be more appropriate?
 
@Braiam Now.. it was, since the Question is closed :)
 
@JohnDvorak It doesn't rhyme.
 
With what?
Do you mean it doesn't alliterate? That hardly matters.
 
@janw My doubt came when I read the tags more closely. It seems to be a library or something. Which would make it not opinion based, no?
Unless it's akin to asking "which database design should I use for this.."
 
2:33 PM
@JohnDvorak "Vote for your Venom?"
 
@JohnDvorak Doesn't that require some type of animal? I mean arsenic is not a venom.
 
Autoflagged FP: flagged by @SmokeDetector, @Glorfindel, @Federico
 
Depends. If you eat an apple infused with arsenic, it's a poison. If you get stabbed by an arsenic-filled syringe, it's a venom.
 
@Scratte Yeah, it is kind of asking for a "better" classification, but the question is so broad that "needs focus" probably is better.
 
@JohnDvorak I'm not sure you're right about that. It's still a poison. Unless you get it from a snake, that has arsenic in their venom :)
 
2:37 PM
I guess that, in the end, the exact close reason does not matter, as long as it makes sense.
 
@Scratte I was going to suggest an ELU question, but this is even better, on Worldbuilding!
 
@janw Yes, the later is the key. I'm not a fan of "any reason whatsoever", since that's confusing the the Question author.
 
Should a 'copy-cat' answer like this one be mod-flagged as plagiarism. All it does is change the syntax of the non-code portion to modify the order of the code lines.
 
looks like search is back up
 
@Scratte Yeah, we probably shouldn't close a jQuery question lacking debugging details as "not about programming"
...or should we? ;)
 
2:41 PM
@AdrianMole Those things just blows my mind.. not sure if it will be declined though. A 20K+ delete request would certainly not be a bad alternative.
 
@Scratte Well, I have it in FP Review at the moment. I've added a comment. I'll send a [del-pls] - which I can, seemingly, do from the review page.
 
@AdrianMole Yes. Those can even be sent from Triage, though I do not do that. I hope for the best in the close vote queue first.
 
@Scratte Can I also post a request for 75 upvotes? Purely so that I can then add my own delete vote to that answer, you understand. The votes could be withdrawn afterwards. xD
Actually, maybe a VLQ flag would be OK for that. That would send it into the LQP reviews, is not?
 
@AdrianMole I think perhaps you should just post one absolutely awesome answer that gets your the 75 upvotes.. over 4 days of course :)
 
@AdrianMole It would probably be declined, as it is an answer. Plagiarism should be mod flagged, if I understood correctly
 
2:51 PM
@janw The guideline for the LQP queue says to check for plagiarism though, if I remember correctly. Also.. everything is deleted in that queue :(
 
@janw I held back on a plagiarism flag because it's a new user who may just not really understand how things work.
Maybe even the downvote has sent it to LQP? I'm still quite befuddled how that whole system works.
 
Well, mod flagging is not automatically bad for the affected user. I believe that the mods will handle this case correctly, if you explain it in the flag description :)
Flagging as NAA/VLQ is risky. A few weeks ago, I made that mistake for a clear case of plagiarism. It was subsequently declined, even though I left a comment. Only a mod flag got it deleted
 
@janw Well, for now, I'll leave possible deletion to the 20K+ community and/or the OP himself.
 
@AdrianMole VLQ and NAA flags are the only ways to send an Answer to the Low Quality Posts queue, if I understand it correctly. Downvotes does nothing other than effect the score (and possibly reputation). Unless there's some strange logic going on.
 
3:12 PM
@Scratte But, the more I think about it... The fact that the newer answer uses the same (incorrect) code formatting (i.e. bold instead of ticks) as the original suggests a deliberate copy.
... Where are the Blue Lurkers when they're needed?
 
This question is not on topic, is it?
 
@AdrianMole The blues gets holiday fewer during weekends, perhaps :)
 
Slackers!
 
@JeanneDark I think it's opinion based. "What can I use instead of this?" is probably not answerable with a "correct" answer. But I do not know what Hyperion is.
 
Me neither, but I suspect it's not even about programming
 
3:24 PM
But.. I see a lot of good Questions that asks "I have this code-snippet. Is there a different way?"
According to Oracle Hyperion Workspace "Oracle Hyperion Workspace (Workspace) software is a modular business intelligence platform"
 
3:40 PM
(Agreeing with @JeanneDark and @Scratte)
 
Awesome. Another flag on my way to the secret hall of flag fame :)
Seeing one of our moderators going though the Triage reviews and closing them after just one wrong button press from a user makes me very paranoid :D
 
4:15 PM
@Scratte Paranoia can be a good thing.
 
I just saw a java how-to Question. I was a little paranoid, but I figured I could easily explain my choice. Then someone answered it, and.. then they found a duplicate and removed their answer. It was a <500 reputation point user :O
 
4:34 PM
Under what circumstance does Stack Overflow prevent users to edit their own Questions? Except when they're already edited too many of their own posts in a day.
 
@Scratte If it's locked by a moderator, I guess.
 
@AdrianMole Strangely this doesn't look locked.
 
Nope. It ain't locked. Something more subtle or sinister.
 
They did edit it after they said it was locked. Probably doing something incorrectly?
 
@DavidBuck I'm sorry. I was blind :(
 
4:41 PM
@Scratte But now can see
 
A user once told me that a library recommendation, with no elaborations as to why it would solve the issue, when the Question isn't asking for it, isn't an answer. But.. you may get your flag declined.
..and now it's an Answer.
 
I think they updated with some code
 
The question, on the other hand...
 
5:09 PM
Why is this php Question getting closed?
 
@Scratte How can you tell this is a PHP question?
 
The first three letters of the title?
 
Then a follow up question, what does this tool have to do with the question?
 
@Dharman The tags :) But I read it as a how-to. How do I reset a value in a record in mysql after 10 minutes.
 
If you think it is MySQL, then what makes it PHP question?
 
5:13 PM
I do not think one can do this in MySQL alone :)
 
OMG!.. I did not see that coming. I'll put it in a comment.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:55 PM
@Scratte He has a table in phpmyadming :facepalm:
 
@Braiam Yes. I noticed. But I was new to this too once :) And it's the interface to the database :)
 
We need to stay safe. If someone wants to help me editing, I would appreciate it.
 
7:14 PM
@Dharman I'd start with 10x in advance
 
@Dharman We live in uncertain times!
Elsewhere on the web I saw "in these current times", which is surely a creative abomination.
 
7:35 PM
@halfer I guess that's deprecated when it's written :)
@halfer Some of those are valid though. "My method seems to be called at uncertain times."
 
7:52 PM
@oguzismail Are you kidding me. Plenty of these questions are not even on-topic. 1, 2
 
8:03 PM
I keep editing stuff, but there is always more.
 
Found this gem while searching for profanities
 
@oguzismail !!!
 
@Scratte Yeah, such is the curse of fluff searching. Simple keyword matching is unreliable - I have a few hundred of these!
@oguzismail Ha! Very creative.
 
Waffles
 
@Dharman right, had just deleted the nuke request right before your (correct) remark (about Waffles :)
 
8:11 PM
Even more Waffles™
 
@Makyen @Dharman is Waffles some kind of code word?
 
It just means "Never mind" without actually deleting the message. You can still check the message history to see what it said, but the message became obsolete
 
@desertnaut Waffles™ are yummy.
@desertnaut Waffles™ is a meme. :)
 
8:52 PM
Hmm, I just kicked it out of the review, but I am having second thoughts. Is this an answer? stackoverflow.com/a/63315679
 
@Dharman Why wouldn't it be?
 
@Scratte It seems like they are asking how to improve this. I don't know pandas very well, so I am not sure if this can be considered an answer.
 
@Dharman To me it seems they didn't find the accepted answer good enough, so they made an alternative.
 
9:48 PM
@desertnaut Any reason why we should delete it? I just saved it. stackoverflow.com/a/63313579
 
Over the last few/several days, I've been seeing problems with loading SO/SE pages more often than usual. The symptoms of the problem are that the page you load will just be "dead". Most, if not all, of the things on the page which require JavaScript won't work (e.g. opening the CV/flag dialogs; drop-downs for the top-bar icons; the new pseudo-tooltips; etc.). Has anyone been seeing similar problems with SO/SE?
 
@Dharman review completed, you seem to have saved it indeed - everyone happy
 
@Makyen The more active you are the more of such problems you notice. Outages are pretty normal to me.
 
@Makyen I've noticed that pages seem to load more slowly.
 
9:55 PM
@Dharman What I'm seeing isn't actually an outage. The issue is how and when the various JavaScript gets loaded. It could be a problem on my end with either system/browser/browser extension issues, or it could be a more general issue. I'm trying to get a feel if it's a problem on my system/browser/network, or if it's a more general issue. There are definitely things SE could do which would eliminate it, but if it's only on my system, then it's something I would need to deal with.
 
The page doesn't generally freeze up on me. Some userscripts are making it slow but I don't think it becomes "dead". Similar situations did happen to me in the past and I think it occasionally happens with chat, but these are glitches in my opinion.
I probably view 100s of posts every day. I don't complain about any problems other than slow userscripts. One of the scripts has a bug, but it is not about SO. Some actions on SO still need improvement to be more user friendly but generally the software works amazingly well for me. It's fast responsive and works with many tabs open at the same time. I almost never close my browser or computer and pages recover easily from hibernation. I did not observe any issues recently with SO as a product
 
10:12 PM
From time to time I get 500 error or a blank page, but I understand that is not what you are asking about.
 
@Dharman OK. Specifically what it appears to be for me is that every once in a while SE's stub.en.js will be loaded prior to jQuery completing its load. This will result in almost nothing that relies on SE JavaScript functioning on the page, because SE's JavaScript fails to properly initialize. This is almost always trivially corrected by just reloading the page. It's just that it's happened significantly more often than "normal" over the last few/several days.
 
However, API fails probably few times every week. 503, 400 and others.
I use Chrome always so it could be that it is a bug with FF
 
@Dharman Encountering issues with the SE API, particularly errors that are related to rate limiting, which some of the requests being rejected as errors will be, is something that's just going to happen. The SE API requires rate control on a per IP basis.
There's no way that a userscript, or even the browser, can fully supply that. Each userscript can provide proper control for themselves, potentially even among multiple tabs, but it's just not possible for them to provide that across multiple userscripts, multiple browser profiles, multiple browsers, or even multiple machines.
 
Try catch to the rescue
 
@Dharman Yes, it could be related to FF, or a browser extension. Seeing if other people experience the problem was a step in the direction of finding out where to continue looking for the problem/solution.
 
10:22 PM
I've seen fellow mods get rate limited or even blocked, but you're talking about serious power users running literally dozens of userscripts
As in userscripts normal people would never use (because they can't)
 
So the first things you two did was to install all of Samuel's user scripts? :)
 
@Machavity I don't know, many of us use various userscripts. Most of them are pretty well written and avoid rate limits or eating up too much of the quota but I think it really depends on how well written the script is. It can, and did, happen to some of us too.
 
I've definitely had rate limiting happen multiple times, but it's almost always been identifiable as to why. Usually, it's been because I've been working on a script and wasn't careful enough about how I was handling a backoff response, but I've also seen it happen when I've been running more than one thing at a time where there isn't coordination between the things that are running, ether because it's quite a bit more work to do, or because it's just not possible (e.g. multiple machines).
@Scratte Many/most, but not all of them. :)
 
10:37 PM
Hmm.. so you skipped the flagger statistics?
 
@dbc I would review this as Looks OK, as it is an answer. I learned that plagiarism does not belong into LQP, but should be mod flagged instead.
However, I don't think it makes sense to keep it. If the === is the only difference, a comment/edit on the existing answer should be sufficient
 
@Machavity hi, your attention is needed in r11
@Makyen maybe you could help in the php room chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/11/php please
 
@mega6382 mods, just like 10k users, see chat flags on the server
I wouldn't bet that a ping is more noticeable (apart from a potential audio notification)
we don't even have enough active 10k users to delete some of those messages...
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, that is what I was going for, because it is quite usual to have the chat open in a tab and not paying direct attention to it
@AndrasDeak yes, and I am sure that the mods can do that and ban him for a couple of weeks or permanently
 
10:55 PM
I thought profanities were not allowed in any chat rooms. Are users allowed to make their own rules for rooms?
 
@Scratte to an extent. Being flat-out vulgar runs the risk of being flagged.
and the CoC reigns supreme
so directed profanities are probably worse in this regard than general f-bombs
 
@Scratte you know the regulars are usually quite casual with each other in many rooms, but being aggressive is not good
 
@mega6382 I was thinking of the f-4letter-word. Which may be "normal" in a room. But those rooms are not private, so everyone can read what goes on.
 
@mega6382 Sorry, was AFK. Looks like Makeyn handled it. In the future, flagging it will get our attention. Trust me, chat flags don't get ignored
 
@Machavity yes, you are right, I have seen that many times in the past. But it was escalating quite quickly, as everyone was paying attention to it, and so I thought it should be dealt with quickly because it was derailing many of the conversations and spamming the room.
 
11:07 PM
there were 3 flagged messages, but too few active users to validate them
 
Interesting. 124 pages of apparently "normal" conversation. So then I'm curious as to if that's just OK? Or is it not?
 
@Scratte do you know the status of non-English chatrooms?
 
@Scratte well many of those terms are not used in a derogatory way, but to "exaggerate" the point
it is not offensive in those cases and is in fact quite casual, we are all adults and there is nothing to mind
 
@mega6382 I don't see that as relevant. One can exaggerate in other ways.
 
@tink that seems like shell scripting though...
 
11:09 PM
@AndrasDeak No. There are none in my language :)
 
@Scratte it's "we can't moderate foreign-language chat, so foreign-language chat is only tolerated until the first flag"
 
You reckon?
 
maybe no MCVE...
 
Heh ...
 
11:11 PM
@Makyen I think this should be thee key point here "Any language that becomes a source of disruption is subject to removal through editing" and that answer is obviously talking about Q&As
 
@Makyen Thank you. I thought I had seen that before :) I also remember seeing a post about under-moderating those things and the resulting freezing and "closing" of a room when those things are left to go on.
 
@Scratte which is to say that it's feasible that expletives can be tolerated as long as they don't cause issues (which strongly correlates to expletives being used in a derogatory manner)
 
@AndrasDeak I do not see it that way. I see it as Stack Exchange does not want those words said on their platform. Even if the meaning isn't aggressive or disruptive.
 
@mega6382 The text of the answer is fairly unequivocal. SE's position has been changed over time. It used to be that expletives were a bit more permitted, but, at this point, they are banned, except where required for a question.
 
@Scratte since when do we care what SE wants?
 
11:14 PM
@AndrasDeak lets not go down that rabbit hole, many a tragedies have been caused by that :D
 
And it's a slippery slope to say that they're just fine in any one room as long as they're not aggressive. What's to stop the room for using all of them? In every message?
 
The more SE has pushed emphasis from content creation to public appearance, the more expected it is that these thing are better enforced.
@Scratte room owners
 
@AndrasDeak But when they are under-moderating the room and allowing the profanities, then what?
 
When a message falls in the forest and there's nobody there to move it to the trash can, does it make a sound?
 
lol, exactly what I was thinking
not the same words but the concept
 
11:17 PM
@AndrasDeak Yes, when it is logged. Pun intended ;)
Which is my point. Anyone can read those messages at any point in time. Everyone with an internet connection has access.
 
@Scratte and my point is that imagining hypothetical situations of chatroom moderation and rules-lawyering based on that is not a fruitful way to spend your time ;)
 
how's everybody?
 
there's the letter of the law, there's the rough concensus, everything else is solved when it comes up in practice
good chatroom moderation is subtle and flexible
 
@AaronHall quite fine, how are you?
 
I'm super, thanks for asking!
 
11:21 PM
@AndrasDeak My point is that it will come up. The sooner one deals with it the better.
 
@Makyen I encounter random bugs of all kinds now and then. One is that the page gets scrolled to the wrong location when loading from a link to a specific item on a page. The chat freezes every now and then. I use Safari. Another one is this, which has become more frequent, but that’s a problem with all websites using the same JS libraries as SO.
 
@Makyen hmmm, but will you actually enforce such strict practice, to its fullest extent, I think it will be quite unproductive and would cause more harm than good(in chat, I mean not on the main site or any other main site)
@Scratte those are rookie numbers, check this out chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=fuck&room=17
 
@mega6382 The moderation in this room quite strict and it's working very well. You will not see profanities in here unless they are discussed. And even so, they are usually implied.
 
And also: no, I haven’t installed a userscript manager yet.
 
I'm watching a lecture on teaching Elm to beginners...
 
11:25 PM
@Scratte this room has a very specific purpose, this is a moderating room, while general discussions do happen here, this is not exactly for that purpose, so of course moderation in this room will be a bit more strict
 
Sometimes I write an expletive because my writing is very much stream of thought, but then I delete the expletive (because I want to be conscientious about not swearing unnecessarily online) and it usually still works. I re-read before posting to make sure though...
 
@mega6382 I do not think it's strict because of it's purpose :) I think it's strict because that's just the norm now.
@AaronHall That is sensible. If you think in expletives :) I don't. I'm usually surprised when others use them. Not that I'm easily offended, I just find them unnecessary fill-words.
 
@AaronHall but do you think that it would be problem to leave it in if nobody minds and if it is not directly pointed at someone?
 
Moderation is very much based on community norms. When a room becomes an outlier, look out for some uncomfortable conversations and perhaps confrontations. I don't know the current state of all rooms in this area, so take what I say with a huge grain of salt.
 
@mega6382 We'll have to see. Beyond that, it's a conversation for elsewhere.
 
11:33 PM
Yes, they are unnecessary fill words in retrospect, but they are an attempt at adding emphasis and flavour. But perhaps the wrong kind, or they are easily taken the wrong way, so I avoid them most of the time.
 
Second review in a row that a user has indicated a duplicate pointing to a downvoted, closed question.
 
Can a closed Question be a duplicate target?
 
There's a much better dupe out there I'm sure
 
There's an episode of Seinfeld where George gets into a subculture of friendly cursing, which is then heard out of context, and he is then made to take a hot bath with Steinbrenner...
 
11:36 PM
@Makyen sure, you are right, I am leaving now, thanks for indulging me. Bye /all
 
@DanielWiddis Perhaps you should ping them in a comment, explaining that closed Questions do not make good duplicate targets :)
 
Banning use of profanity is a form of censorship.
 
@Andreas It is, yes. Especially if you prosecute people for what they say in their own homes. But, if I put those words in emails to clients, I'll probably be censored from my job ;)
On TV.. it's different. One can always pick another channel. I've always found the beeps more annoying as one can easily make out what is really said.
 
@DanielWiddis I like the way they propose to flag a much upvoted Q&A as a dupe of the poor one.
 
@Scratte The beeps are painful. I automatically put the hands to my ears when those beeps go on. It’s the primary reason why I don’t watch American TV programs.
 
11:48 PM
@Andreas I just find another channel. I've watched Australian ones, that didn't do it at all and used a lot of profanities.
 
- but seriously: they are just words, like any other word. It’s as stupid as bursting out in a laugh because of words about scat or sexuality. It’s childish. There’s no harm in those words. The harm is done once the rest of the sentence is made to be rude.
 
If I remember correctly, they invented a word for Battlestar Gallactica to avoid the beeps.
 
@Scratte 🙄
 
@Andreas Yes, but, so what? In the US, "Free Speech" and the requirement for the government not to censor speech, isn't something that applies to private companies or individuals. See: xkcd.com/1357
OTOH, I agree. I'm not that comfortable with censorship. I prefer the original most upvoted response to the expletive meta, but the policy as SE wants it implemented is clear.
 
@Andreas I understand your point. I just don't agree. They are meant to be offensive. That is their entire purpose.
 
11:51 PM
@Scratte No, that is not true. They are not meant to be offensive.
 
@Andreas Perhaps not by the people that use them. But the words themselves were not born to be normal fill words.
 
@Scratte there's some miscommunication here. You have to distinguish "rude because you were taught that expletives are bad" and "rude because expletives were told at someone rather than to someone".
A random f-bomb is the former category, telling someone to f-bomb themself is the latter.
You can be opposed to both, but they are different situations and some people only object to the latter.
Just trying to cut through some walking in circles here...
 
@AndrasDeak That is a different matter and unrelated to the words. I can be very rude without using any profanity. I would still be rude.
 
No, it's exactly what we're talking about.
 
sorry but I had to come back
 
11:54 PM
@Scratte I think you’d find this interesting.
 
@Scratte are you objecting to being rude or to the use of expletives?
 
@AndrasDeak Hmm. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the use of the words. Whether or not they are used to be rude is to me irrelevant.
 
because if its the former and you say that the latter is not always rude, then whats the problem?
@Scratte then what is specifically about them that upsets you?
 
@mega6382 Both :) But on a scale, being rude is a lot worse.
 
@Scratte yes, but others you're talking to might be talking about their use.
 
11:56 PM
@Makyen The American «free speech» is a very flawed concept. I prefer my own country’s laws on the matter, allowing total and complete free speech until it threatens or harms others, or limits their free speech.
 
@mega6382 I think I may have given the wrong impression. I don't use them myself because I may inadvertently offend someone of a different culture, even if I'm just being nice and chatty. The reason I'd like to see them not used at all is for this reason and because this is a private company that has explicitly said that they do not approve of the use.
 

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