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9:00 AM
I'm not sure that [import] is causing harm, frankly.
I think [mvvm] is, because it invites off-topic "how to _____ in MVVM architecture" questions
[import] just seems to be ...useless.
 
Yeah, doesn't seem too bad stackoverflow.com/…
 
Would you consider this comment (I translated from Spanish) as red flagable? "July 2 at 4:01 for giving such an ignorant answer! If you enter to speak pure # "#" # "# better reserve the right to comment. Keep learning angular better!". The question is not even on Angular tag, so this is kind of personalised comment after mine telling them to keep SO's Q&A format for their answer
 
But I don't know about deleted ones, of course
 
9:08 AM
@Vega Foreign language comments aren't really great candidates for red flags... Mods don't speak Spanish, so we'd have to translate, and meh, auto-translation is not great. Just flag as NLN. It needs to go if for no other reason than it's non-English. Then nobody has to waste time translating it.
If it's really something abusive that you want a mod to see, but it's not in English, you should custom flag and include a translation.
 
Got it, thank you
 
I see stackoverflow.com/questions/62785246/… is still open and even gained some upvotes since the last time I looked — now at 117 upvotes
that still looks extremely fishy
 
user12867493
@sideshowbarker wth, why so many?
 
@Daniil it's, with near certainty, a voting ring - the question had substantially more upvotes than views earlier, which, while not impossible, seems very unlikely
 
@Daniil mystery
 
9:10 AM
I am no expert in those topics, but it seems not to be that big of news?
 
but sure looks like some kind of voting fraud/sockpuppetly
 
Zoe
@RyanM Probably not. I doubt anyone would go through the effort of making 115 sock accounts
 
user12867493
How do you find these suspected voting ring posts? @sideshowbarker
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks … yeah it’s not nearly that exciting of a question
 
user12867493
It's been viewed 14 more times than it's been upvoted
 
9:12 AM
@Daniil I just came across that one from watching the python tag. It kind of stood out like a sore thumb
 
user12867493
No posts ever has that vote:views ratio
 
right
 
user12867493
Did they really make 100 acc's?
 
This is unbelievable
 
I guess there are websites where you can buy votes
 
9:13 AM
Create 100 accounts and earn 15 rep with each one?
 
@Zoe Certainly not by hand, at least, that seems extremely inefficient when you could just upvote multiple posts. Hard to say what really happened without mod powers, of course.
 
yeah of course it would seem pathological to go to that degree of trouble to upvote one question
 
Stackoverflow Fame °-°
 
Unless you really want that elusive Great Question badge, I suppose.
 
Also, IMO it is a bit too obvious :D
@RyanM Well, that might be an explanation
 
9:14 AM
Is a mod flag worth it when something is fishy?
 
@sideshowbarker Maybe someone is just testing their automated ring software?
 
I merely have the corresponding Great Answer badge. It'd be greater still if I'd been a couple minutes faster at answering years ago.
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks Yes, definitely
 
No, a poor question from a user who's had a history of poorly received questions doesn't suddenly deserve 110+ upvotes.
 
@Daniil I don’t ever go actively looking for suspicious cases like that. I think the ones I have mentioned here are just cases I spontaneously came across from going through recent posts in the small handful of tags I watch.
 
9:15 AM
I modflagged it.
 
Or we could just ping @CodyGray :)
 
I don't see any fish
 
that question was already mod-flagged some hours ago by @10Rep (after I first mentioned it here)
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks No.. there's a rule for that here. You can ping a moderator for non-moderator things like: Would you like coffee? What's your take on the last C++ version? Or other fun things only :)
 
@Scratte yeah could be I guess
 
9:18 AM
It could also be a dorm-room kind of place where 114 different real users heard about it and decided to go. That would make the views lower, if they all come from the same IP
 
@Scratte didn't this room once had a bot where we could request coffee?
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks It's still here, but I do not think I have access to it :)
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks brews a cup of Macchiato for @Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks
 
Thank you Smokey
 
9:20 AM
I don't buy any of that. This question has a very inappropriate score for its quality.
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine I'm not saying it's a good reason, but.. it's a possibility. What if it's some really attractive person and everyone wants to please them and they just stood up in a class with 250 students and posted their Question? :) ..anything's possible :D
 
user12867493
sdc blame
 
@Daniil It's dbc's fault.
 
Unlimited coffee! Why did I know what this?!? :D
 
9:23 AM
@Scratte That should be considered a form of voting fraud. :/
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine It is
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine Not if they never asked anyone to log in and vote..
 
@Scratte The question is not good, so those students or peers did not vote appropriately.
Since it amounts to "plz translate this code to Python", it's also close worthy.
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine Just to be clear: I'm not saying that the score fits the Question, but it's not the first time I've seen something that didn't fit ;)
 
@Scratte I am sure the mods will investigate and we will find out, eventually :)
 
9:25 AM
I've seen things as well. But let's not assume there is nothing wrong here or that we should just wait and do nothing.
 
I saw a mod once
 
user12867493
Why do so many people avoid the CV queue? I mean only 269 reviews today
 
My headcanon is now that @E_net4isnotaporcupine considers unlimited coffee to be voting fraud
3
@Daniil the UTC day's not even half over
 
user12867493
@RyanM Still not a lot
 
Yeah, it's usually 500-600 total
 
9:27 AM
@RyanM Oy, reply chains.
 
It's kind of a slog
 
@janw The first yes, but don't expect them to tell us about the result.
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine sssshhhhhhh don't contradict my headcanon
 
@Daniil I would, but...hmm, can anyone lend me their sock network, just for a few minutes?
 
user12867493
@janw Why?
 
9:28 AM
@CodyGray You met another one? Or you had the un-invisibility-potion once and saw yourself in the mirror?
 
@janw I would, but my socks are running for moderator currently
Also, at least a couple vanished into the dryer abyss
 
Wouldn't you know, those are the same ones that'll be elected mod
 
@janw I would but its laundry day :(
 
@Daniil I am <3k ;)
 
@Scratte Seriously?!?.. Did you mean "Why did I not know about this already?!?""
 
user12867493
9:30 AM
@janw Oh, same. Trying to earn rep rn as a matter of fact
 
@Scratte Needs more exclamation marks
 
Or coffee?
 
@Vega Not sure if coffee will fix my brain ;)
 
@RyanM Oh, good luck! Is it voting fraud if I vote for multiple sock candidates without knowing? ;)
 
@Scratte Matcha tea?
 
9:31 AM
@Vega Needs coffee, needz moar deletion.
 
@Vega Perhaps a transplant? :D
 
@janw only if you do it from multiple accounts
 
@bad_coder Yes, let's delete everything
@Scratte Coffee transfusion should be enough ;)
 
@Vega And broccoli. I hear so many good things about broccoli.
 
Some studies suggest it can help fight cancer
 
9:38 AM
Other studies suggest it has a high about of NMN's. Which other studies suggest is the "youth serum".
 
It fights some greenery cravings of mine
 
So in that perspective it would fight cancer induced by "laziness" due to age.
@Vega Because you want more, or because you want less?
 
@Scratte I actually like broccolis :)
 
Zoe
yep
 
user12867493
9:43 AM
@janw VLQ
 
Huh, that was instant
Alright :D
I have just been ninja'd on my own report
 
No, it was after the report came in
NAA is appropriate there. It's a link-only answer.
 
Yep! Wasn't sure
Usually I only post an auto-comment asking for clarification/more detail, but that one was 10 years old...
 
Comments shouldn't be used as substitutes for flags
 
@CodyGray You are incredibly fast, I didn't even manage to switch back to the right tab after reading Zoe's and Daniil's responses :D
@CodyGray Ok, thanks for clarification. I have seen some link-only posts been reviewed as "Looks OK" in the VLQ queue, and wasn't sure anymore
 
9:52 AM
@janw The "link only" classification is tricky. Sometimes, the link is the answer. For example, Q: "How do I print a floating point value to the console in C?" A: "Use printf". That's an answer, because the answer is to use the printf function. The link is merely supplemental. Also in situations where someone is citing an API endpoint or something.
Of course, the other problem is that reviewers often get it wrong. Nothing I can do about that.
 
@CodyGray These are the more obvious cases, yes. But does this mean that we treat all "use this library" link answers as NAA? Is there any way to salvage such an answer at all?
 
Btw the suspicious python question has been deleted by Martijn Pieters
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine 4 hours awake and I still can't think straight
 
Do moderators have unlimited daily up/down-votes?
 
9:57 AM
Now, tell the CMs to trace the 117 users who upvoted and ban them. :)
 
@Scratte No, we're still limited to 30/40 votes per day.
 
Does the gold badge stay even when the post is deleted?
 
@CodyGray when is it 30? and when is it 40? (erm.. showing off my ignorance, I know)
 
@janw I could've just checked meta
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine maybe a candidate for meta?
 
9:59 AM
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks No, the mods will handle that
 
Zoe
@Scratte you get 40 votes if 25% are on questions IIRC
 
@janw I do hope so
 
@Zoe Ahh.. thanks. So no 40 votes on answers only :)
 
Yeah, you get a bonus 10 votes to vote on questions, if you play your cards right
 
Zoe
Free votes! Get your votes here!
 
10:00 AM
@Scratte Ahem.
 
There is one other trick
 
@janw Apparently non-tag badges are revoked only for "heinous cheating"
 
When a post is deleted, the votes on it are "refunded" to you
 
I would glady spend 100+ rep a day to downvote bad answers and questions
 
Zoe
So if you play your cards right, you can get as many votes in a day as you want :P
 
10:01 AM
Yeah
 
Zoe
just make sure the posts are deleted
 
Well, not really upvotes
It's kinda silly to upvote a post and then immediately delete it
 
This explains why I never ran out of downvotes when flagging NAA
 
@Zoe That's not really my call though. I can't even vote to delete :D
 
"boy this post really doesn't deserve to be at -15, it's really more of a -14" upvote, delete
 
Zoe
10:02 AM
@Scratte Ah, but if you downvote every NAA and then flag, you usually get it back fast
 
@RyanM That reads as "I'm going to give this user a false sense of hope by awarding +10 rep and then nullifying everything by deleting the post".
 
@RyanM upvote, mod-flag, close, delete, write a meta post
 
@Zoe I see. That has happened a lot, but there are "reasons" to not do that..
 
I downvote every NAA, since I read that this makes deletion easier
And sometimes the poster removes it themselves then
 
@janw As you should. Not only does it make deletion easier, but it's almost impossible to argue that something you'd flag as "NAA" is also clear, helpful, correct, or high-quality.
 
10:05 AM
@janw I keep tabs on my NAA's. I've had my vote countered. So I do it only when I can see it's reached the end and needs it.
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine By the way, that's being done. Martijn handled the immediate problem, and then passed off to the CMs for further investigation.
 
@Scratte Just wanted to keep y'all updated and prove Scratte wrong.
 
glad to hear that that process is working
 
Yeah, I assume he has more time to handle flags now that he's not burning down tags and/or the entire site
 
10:08 AM
@CodyGray Sorry. I didn't mean to say that there would never ever come one. Just to not expect one :)
 
That user is now suspended for 1 year ._.
 
BTW, there was some info on Twitter about the latest outage: twitter.com/tarynpivots/status/1280939952390340608
 
I thought that suspensions were 7 days for first offence, then 30 days, then a year. So.. lets say I test my own ring software. Would I be suspended for just 7 days? Or would that be considered so wrong that I went straight to a year?
 
@janw We tried to warn him...
 
@Scratte Just try it ;)
 
10:12 AM
@Scratte Create a deep learning voting AI, over which you have no control over, then you can't really say that it's voting fraud :p
 
@Scratte Suspension durations are at the moderator's discretion... 7, 30, and 365 days are just guidelines.
 
@janw I like to know things, that's all. I ask a lot of hypothetical questions because I'm curious about everything. Not even if the suspension was just an hours, would I try it :D
@CodyGray So in theory I could also get a 3650 day one? :)
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks relevant XKCD
 
@Scratte That's fine, I was just joking :)
 
@Scratte you could try testing your voting ring software on a CM's account, that might do the trick
 
10:14 AM
@Scratte No, 365 is the limit for what moderators can apply. Anything longer than that requires a CM. But, yes, there have been 3650 day suspensions applied by CMs.
 
@janw I figured, but some times it's difficult to know why someone asks. I could have been asking because I had it planned or something awful :)
 
I am sure that I already saw a >100 years suspension somewhere
 
@RyanM That is very ..evil. To try to get a CM suspended for voting fraud.
@CodyGray So it would be considered a no-no to just reapply one after the 365 day to another 365 days?
 
@Scratte Nope. That can be done. And is done.
It just doesn't happen automatically.
 
So, imagine someone making a voting ring such as this one for electing a moderator.
 
10:17 AM
@CodyGray Hmm.. so then I'd think I was in again on july 21th at 10:53, just to realize that I'm not? :)
 
@Scratte Not sure what's significant about that date
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine I hear they do that for elected officials in countries..
 
@E_net4isnotaporcupine You would need lots of accounts, with enough rep to vote
 
@CodyGray Nothing. I just image that was when my imaginary suspension ended. And a new one starts on the same date at 10:54
 
@Scratte Chances are, we wouldn't be quite that efficient at applying the next suspension.
 
10:20 AM
Ohh.. so if I prepare some awesome answers, I'm only normally rate-limited until someone notices. :)
 
Generally, yeah, that's the whole idea behind all of our policies: forgiveness.
 
Is this still on-topic, or too broad? stackoverflow.com/questions/13711318/…
 
But I was meaning more that you'd have to wait for a moderator's "Check on and re-suspend Scratte" alarm to go off, open up your profile, click some buttons, etc. Might take more than 1 minute.
 
@janw The answer is 2x link only
 
@janw Yeah... the question seems like something that would be on-topic, but that answer is bad.
If I delete the answer, then there's nothing useful anywhere on the page, so I guess the question might as well go, too.
 
10:23 AM
Btw, what is the tag??
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks Rene partially explains that here. See also the post he links to.
 
Zoe
it's a tag used by the system when a question loses all its tags as a result of system-level tag deletion
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks Basically, it's a system-created meta tag that literally means that a question doesn't have any other tags. Since you can't submit a question without tags, that means the tag(s) that were originally on the question got deleted from the database after the question was posted.
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks If you want to help, check out this chat room
@CodyGray BTW, I still cannot apply a new tag
 
@janw Ah, thanks for the reminder. Let me go cancel those synonyms.
This is the problem: i.stack.imgur.com/Md217.png
 
10:26 AM
Oh yeah
 
Those synonyms made sense when I created them. Dunno what happened since.
 
Interesting that there can be synonyms of a no longer existing tag
 
@janw Well, there isn't supposed to be. The whole problem here is that these tags were hard-deleted from the database, which shouldn't have occurred at all.
 
@CodyGray It worked now! Thanks for investigating & fixing.
 
@janw Perfect. Thanks for reminding me!
 
11:17 AM
 
11:30 AM
So... that suspected voting fraud that was reported in here earlier? It's been keeping a mod, a CM, and a dev busy for the past couple of hours.
 
wow
 
Sounds like my "Certainly not by hand, at least" may have been more accurate than I knew...
 
Correct. This kind of thing has happened before. Shog9 handled it last time. Some new faces got to figure out how to do it this time. :-)
 
11:48 AM
@CodyGray A mod, a CM and a dev walked into a bar ...
 
12:01 PM
Should I simply rollback this question edit or do I need to craft a loving comment explaining that question requirements mustn't be extended after the fact? stackoverflow.com/q/61812232/2943403
 
@mickmackusa if that invalidates your answer then Yes, rollback
 
Morning @NathanOliver How has your day started?
 
It's hot and muggy out so I'll use OK
 
@Lino-Votedon'tsayThanks Regarding ... This might happen if a question is migrated to a different SE site and the new site does not have any of the tags that were attached.
 
12:21 PM
@mickmackusa You definitely need to explain. Doesn't have to be loving; succinct is fine. But if you don't, it risks that they'll just go "wtf?" and roll back your rollback. Tell them to ask a new question if they have a follow-up, providing a link to this one if it helps to provide context.
 
@CodyGray So.. are they still working on it? Or did a few hours do it?
 
yeah, I ended up saying something. I suppose I just didn't "feel like it".
 
@Scratte Mostly sorted by now. Just cleaning up the remainder of the damage, the time-consuming stuff.
 
What's the odds that someone is caught as collateral damage?
 
@AdrianMole Sounds painful
 
12:24 PM
@Scratte Sounds painful
 
@CodyGray Could you unfreeze fr a minute, I had one more question
 
@Scratte That's probably what's taking so long. Have to sift the wheat from the chaff, so to speak
 
Are you still talking about the "More votes than views" post?
 
@Machavity Ahh.. yes. I can imagine it being quite a wakeup call if someone who isn't involved logs in to find out they're been suspending for "voting irregularities". I think I'd be a little upset myself :)
 
@Scratte In all seriousness, I'm not really sure what you mean. What kind of "collateral damage"? We're pretty good about not accidentally deleting legitimate accounts or whatever.
@AdrianMole Yup
 
12:26 PM
OK. Thought so. It was the most obvious case of VF I've ever seen.
 
Kind of an interesting case, but I don't want to go into too many details.
 
@CodyGray Not sure if I give anyone good ideas here, but if I were to test my automatic ring software, I'd ensure it doesn't just vote on my own ring..
 
There are lots of ways that this particular abuser could have been smarter. That's the lucky thing about criminals and other fraudsters: they usually just aren't that smart.
Makes it easier for us to catch them.
 
Oh.. so I just gave it away then :(
 
Like those that smother their faces in lemon juice before robbing a bank because they believe it makes them invisible to the CCTV cameras...
 
12:29 PM
*starts planning the perfect voting fraud*
 
@JonClements Stupid! Everyone knows it's pineapple juice.
 
I know right... this is what happens when you don't research and plan properly...
 
@janw I honestly don't think it's that hard, unfortunately. But I think that most that do it are not thinking it through.
The easiest thing to not get caught doing it is to not do it, it would seem. Unless of course you get "caught" in someone else's ring.
 
But you could get caught not doing it.
 
@AdrianMole I get caught like that all the time :D
 
12:34 PM
Would you rather be not caught doing it, or caught not doing it?
 
@JonClements People in the UK take Monty Python really serious, don't they?
 
@Machavity 't is a grave matter
 
Yes. But at least we don't take python seriously.
 
You mean the documentary about English medieval history? Why wouldn't they?
2
 
I also thought that pineapple juice isn't enough. It has to be a cucumber face mask, preferable with egg white for easier peel off.
 
12:35 PM
@Machavity There are a great many people in the country today, who through no fault of their own, are sane
2
 
@CodyGray Me.. I'd rather get caught not doing it, if we're talking fraud. If it's the dishes at the family party, I think getting caught doing it has the best all time outcome :)
 
@CodyGray Showed it to my kids recently and told them "This movie is about nothing. Don't try to make it about something."
 
@Machavity Nothing and everything, you meant to say
 
@Machavity It's not serious, it's just a very naughty boy
 
Is this really the right room for an argument?
 
12:38 PM
@AdrianMole The room for abuse is down the hall, second door on the left
 
@AdrianMole He means this one
 
@Machavity No he doesn't
 
Actually, I did. But now I want an argument, instead.
 
@AdrianMole But you have to wear a silly hat to enter the room. We'll be asking for a picture next time you enter.
 
Are you telling me people haven't abused that room?
 
12:39 PM
@AdrianMole No you don't
 
@halfer yes he does.
 
Are you saying I'm being negative?
 
@Adriaan I told you already, I can't go on arguing until you have paid.
 
@halfer we haven't even started yet! Just disagreeing is no argument!
 
@Adriaan It can be
 
12:40 PM
No it can't!
 
I kind of just lost track :D
 
Ha, by arguing with Adriaan, Cody and I ended up agreeing with each other {grin}
 
I don't agree :)
 
Now, where's that parrot?
 
@halfer That's not particularly surprising; I find myself agreeing with you a lot. Should I be worried?
 
12:41 PM
@AdrianMole It's pushing up the daisies and talking to the choir invisible
@CodyGray Very. I've gone lockdown bonkers!
Or maybe I'm just pining for the fjords?
 
Funny, because I've seen a lot of pine tree around those fjords.
 
This is getting too silly
 
Yes. Let's delete things.
 
@Scratte Ah, so that's why they are called pine trees. I think we need to have an argument about that though
 
But Dharman can't delete chat.. yet :)
 
12:44 PM
It's on the agenda, no doubt.
 
In all fairness a lot of people will probably not vote for me because of this
 
Meh. Too much effort to bin all that. Just move on with on-topic things. Maybe rene won't notice
 
@Dharman Let's delete them ;)
 
Now for something completely different...
 
Spam sketch? :=)
 
12:46 PM
@Dharman I think the example you made in the comments would probably turn some off.
 
Which example?
 
Maybe be less... vocal about it? :P
 
The example post you made in this comment. Honestly, I'd miss the post if you deleted it :)
 
What would you miss about it? Change my mind.
We have deleted cakes, jokes and so on.
 
Not everyone agrees that we should have deleted the cakes and the jokes...
I actually agree with Scratte here. I think the answers to that particular question are interesting. How does it make the Internet better for us to delete them?
Ah, American linguistic imperialism is alive and well in CSS ;-)
 
12:51 PM
I am definitely not the right person to make a reform. The post is locked now, so I don't have to go and remove it. However, I don't think this is the right post to make into a historical one. It's just people whining about bad features of some languages
 
Yeah lol, it's not the first time I saw this type of bugs
 
@Dharman I don't think we should delete the cakes and the jokes. But I think the post shows knowledge from people that only gained with a lot of experience. Joking about it doesn't take that away. In a sense it just shows it in a more easily digestible way.
 
I was sad to see the jokes go. I think that was a perfect example of a post that deserved historical lock
 
Hmm. If not this one, which posts do you think are the appropriate candidates for historical locks?
Sometimes, whining can be insightful. I don't think the whining there is particularly low quality.
 
12:54 PM
Absolutely agreed. (I could even argue that 3rd one might not be off-topic.) So why is the one about flaws with programming languages different from those?
 
They had value back it the day. They actually provided some important information for people looking for this information.
The one about flaws in the languages is not constructive now just as it had not been very constructive back then.
There are whole websites and books about people complaining how bad PHP was 10 years ago
We could find a flaw in every language, but how does it help us?
 
Um, it's not all about PHP
Finding flaws in languages is helpful, because it helps to inform the design of future languages
Also, what veterans consider to be flaws are often "gotchas" for beginners to that language, so these lists may be insightful in that regard.
 
@Dharman Is it.. for someone thinking about something new to dig into. This may make me more interested in Perl :)
 
All I am saying is that I would delete it years ago before it got a historical lock. I will not start removing posts with historical locks now and I will apply some myself.
there are posts which deserve more to be deleted than preserved. e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/750301/…
When considering if I should apply a historical lock or now, I would definitely consider the view count and upvotes.
@Scratte Perl is just PHP but 100x worse
 
user12867493
@CodyGray How is this tp?
 
1:02 PM
@Dharman Yes, that one I totally agree: there is no redeeming value in any of the answers, so there's no harm in deleting it. When it comes to making the decision, I try to follow something that Robert Harvey first put into words: ask yourself, "Will deleting this make the Internet a worse place?" If the answer is yes (e.g., because it breaks links, robs people of useful information, etc.), then don't delete it. Even if it is a shining example of what not to do on SO or whatever.
 
@CodyGray I would be one of them. The cake question was awesome, even if it was entirely off-topic
 
@Daniil Uh, it's probably not. I think that might have been a misclick.
 
I don't like deleting posts which many users have upvoted. If I was to decide that upvoted post needs to go then I really must have thought that the post has no value whatsoever and deleting it will prevent people from wasting time or learning harmful information.
 
@Dharman I don't know PHP.. but I did once dig myself in a Perl hole. I think it would be good to do it again :) My point is that this answer helps to inspire me. I also liked the "It was horrible. Horrible! HORRIBLE!!!" on aother post :)
 
@Cody that's the 2nd question I ask myself... the first is "is this causing harm by not being deleted"... (belts and suspenders and all that...)
 
1:05 PM
@Scratte The language is not very polite, the content is just a rant. How does it inspire you?
 
@JonClements I see them as the same question. Deleting spam or abusive content makes the Internet a better place.
@Dharman Okay, yeah, then I think we're pretty well aligned on this.
 
@Dharman It is a rant. It does because it makes me curious about that language. Now.. I want to know what the fuss is about :)
 
My agenda from the start when I got into curation was to remove the harmful stuff first. Then once all of it is gone we can waste time reevaluating the mediocre things.
 
You just scared me a little bit, because I remember folks from several years ago who were very militant about deleting anything that was in blatant violation of our current standards, arguing various things, including that it served as a broken window, attracted similar new content, could be used as a justification for having to keep similar new content, etc.
 
@CodyGray they kind of are... but evaluating "is it causing harm" is a much easier criteria to evaluate and hit the delete button if it is...
 
1:08 PM
I don't remember you being there for that debate, so I wasn't entirely sure which side you came down on.
 
I remember getting mixed feedback on this meta response
 
@Dharman And contrary to just reading about a list of language anywhere else on the internet, this post seems like everyone posting there actually worked with it.
 
@Scratte Sometimes there's a fine line between curation and usefulness
 
Wow, @Jon, that comment thread reminded me of this answer of mine, which I had completely forgotten about.
 
People in this room have thought me a lot about deleting information. For the most part I am very careful about deleting them and I err on the side of caution if I am unsure.
 
1:13 PM
@CodyGray Sort of off topic but which tool do you use for those flowcharts?
 
@Machavity I guess I'd like more stuff to be deleted too. I even follow my aged away flag to see if Roomba will get to them :D But when I get to a post where I hope to be able to read it and memorize it before someone deletes it, then I feel something is lost with deleting it.
 
@VLAZ I have absolutely no idea. As I said, I don't even remember writing that answer, so I definitely don't remember details of how it was composed. For the more recent one, I answered here in a comment. I just used whatever was easiest to get started in on Google. No real preference.
 
I'm remiss to delete something marginally useful with lots of views. Case in point
 
@Dharman Perfect. This is the key, I completely agree.
 
Really when I am talking about deleting stuff with no remorse I am only talking about stuff like this: stackoverflow.com/questions/37594716/…
 
1:15 PM
There's plenty of harmful stuff or just garbage to delete. There's absolutely no point in discussing or risking deleting borderline stuff.
 
@CodyGray wow... I didn't realise you'd flow charted my own train of thought comments there :p
 
@Dharman We know this, but other users do not know that. I think your answer to the questionnaire were really good. I only got a little sad when I got to the comment.
 
@Machavity That one's not marginal; it's extremely useful. You meant to link to the similar C question, which isn't nearly as useful or as well-maintained by the community.
 
OP has no interest in proper XML solution, dupe is enough
 
Definitely, if thousands of people voted it up I don't want to be the one to delete it out of my own desire to delete things. I would probably ask on Meta or just leave it alone.
 
1:17 PM
@CodyGray Could use this one instead
 
@Scratte If you want I can reword my comment and remove the example. I agree it probably does not portray my intentions very well.
 
@Machavity Ah, the one linked from the landing page as a shining example?
 
@CodyGray It's linked?
 
@Dharman Yeah. I'm pulling for you to win, so... my advice is to make sure you say in public the kinds of things you're telling us in here. In particular, that you wouldn't rush to delete edge cases, etc. It sounds stupid, but one of the tricks to moderation is... moderation. :-)
 
@Dharman I think you should, because it gives the impression that you'll be deleting those types of posts. And if you don't mean to say that's what you will be doing, then you're turning off people for the wrong reasons.
You could even give example of things that you do not want to delete..
 
1:21 PM
@Machavity Maybe they removed it. It used to be. See, e.g., the latest update to Jeremy's post.
 
Oh, when the newsletter linked it. I remember that
And I still find it funny that when you go to the front page of SO when you're not logged in, that you see no questions at all. Of course, most people are Googling for answers instead, but still
 
@Machavity The newsletter, yes, but Jeremy's post is actually showing a screenshot of the homepage (the one shown to non-logged-in users), not the newsletter. That whole homepage fiasco is another thing I was really upset about, but kinda got glossed over because there were bigger problems. I'm still upset by it. It obscures free public Q&A, and makes it look like our stuff is hidden behind a paywall.
 
@Scratte It's difficult to put all of this in 500 characters or less. I changed it. Can you take a look please?
 
@Dharman I think that's much more accurate for what you want to do. It even sounds like deleting stuff is fun again :)
@CodyGray I think we should have a meta post about meta posts. Where each answer will link to a feature-request where we can vote on them. The top one should be the priority and pushed for development. Once it's done, it gets deleted and the next top one..
 
@Scratte Why not just do that based on the score of the feature request itself?
 
1:37 PM
@CodyGray Because a feature-request can get a lot of votes just for the idea. Not because it's "ready". It seems to me that voting on the Question itself implies: This is a good idea, not necessarily: This must be implemented.
The feature-request is sort of the idea phase, if you will.
 
Hm, yeah, I follow that
 
Some of them are obviously not just ideas, they are also: Bring back the old front page. This doesn't need extra work, so it's ready now.
 
Turn off emojis. Bring back free public Q&A. Plenty of easy stuff to choose from, indeed.
 
I'd imagine it's so ingrained now and what with stuff moving to the Stacks framework and other functionality changes - it's not quite so easy to just rollback
 
But as long as the community doesn't get to help prioritizing things, it's easier to disregards the requests. There are also so many that it's tricky to find out what is still worth doing. I'd like a post from 6 years back to be implemented asap, but putting my tiny little vote on it is hardly going to change anything.
 
1:43 PM
Ugh, Stacks framework is terrible
I don't know how that happened
 
@JonClements I did't mean it's easy to rollback. I mean the idea phase is not an issue :) There's no confusing about "Remove the Thanks-feature" :)
 
It's like all of the worst practices of web design rolled into one, and significant parts of it are ugly (cough tooltips)
 
But the "Reward duplicate finders" may still need work. I do not see a feature-request being promoted to an idea anywhere. A meta post could be that. One answer, one proposal, one link to a feature-request.
As long as they are mature enough to go to a developer, it would mean the community has an better option to express what they need out of things that are ready enough. If I vote for the duplicate finders, I don't even know which solution I'm voting for :)
..and lets say this is the new thing that will be picked up. Maybe they will do a lot of work designing and implementing it and everyone will hate it because they had a different idea of what that should have been. But Stack get confused because we all voted for that post.
 
2:06 PM
Should this question (offering payment) be spam-flagged or just left closed and go to Roomba? Maybe the payment part could be edited-out - but it would still not be reopenable. I'm 70:30 for spam.
 
I'm fine with closing and deleting it. I've already voted to delete.
 
It's doomed for deletion, whatever, I guess. But first-time poster misusing the site is maybe spam?
 
Generally, job offers are considered spam. But...that's just a confused person, I think, not actual spam. I've just deleted it
 
@CodyGray Which was why I wasn't 100%.
 
2:34 PM
@AdrianMole Man, I really missed my chance to make $100
 

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