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12:01 AM
Seems SO went down for maintenance at exactly 0:00 UTC. ... and came back online at 00:01.
 
Waffles™
 
12:14 AM
@AdrianMole they run a tight ship
 
That's a lot of -10s...
I wonder why that was not kept in Community account
 
Usually... because we can't guarantee that the votes were fraud-free, so we don't retain them.
It's generally rare that we delete a user with that many votes but don't assign the votes to Community.
Don't actually know about this specific case.
 
@Catija You mean to say that if a long-con voting fraud is discovered the votes are kept?
 
3 messages moved to SOCVR /dev/null; let's not discuss specific users.
 
12:30 AM
@Catija This specific case needs to be investigated further... I don't want to talk about is cuz of what Makyen said, but as far as those votes are concerned - taking away a lot of rep suddenly seems a bit too harsh. Or maybe not harsh, if the victim was given evidence that all those votes were fraud to justify that action.
 
@Dharman No. the other way around. If we can confirm it was fraud or it seems likely that it's fraud, we remove the votes.
 
Because I flagged more obvious cases of voting fraud on high rep users and the flag was marked helpful but nothing happened to the votes
 
Mods can't invalidate votes... only CMs can... and we're a bit backlogged.
That said, if mods find sockpuppets, they can handle those and removing a sock will also clear their votes.
 
@Dharman Such flags should be marked helpful if the mod felt it was reasonable for you to think that there might be something suspicious, given the limited information you have available. Beyond that, there really isn't any feedback, other than what you might see wrt. a change in the user's reputation, or not.
 
So if the mod marked the flag helpful, they likely referred it to the CMs... but there's no reason to leave the flag sitting around for the time it takes for us to actually review the report.
 
12:38 AM
I assume some of my flags get escalated, but once you wait few weeks and nothing happens you start to question if the obvious pattern you see was actually wrong or if the situation is complex mods need to wait few months to gather evidence.
 
The lack of feedback is annoying
 
I wish it at least said "escalated" to let us know how mods dealt with it
 
@Dharman Neither. It's that there's only four CMs.
A month ago or so I handled the CM escalation backlog to get it to 2020... January...
 
Ahh I see
 
Well, on the plus side, it's in 2020. :)
That's not intended to belittle the effort it took to get to that point. I'm sure it was quite a bit of work. I expect you are much more frustrated with the situation than we are.
 
12:44 AM
@Makyen Indeed! I handled around 50 of them and there are about 150-200 left. So, not a small percentage.
Some of them are simple and some of them are really complex and it really frustrates me to not have them handled because I know it impacts how the mods feel about their work... as much as it's frustrating to have a flag go unanswered or without apparent effect, think of how much worse it must be to spend time writing up a CM escalation, adding links and evidence and then ... hearing nothing. :( For months.
The mods here on SO are great but it's not an easy job.
(the mods across the network are great, to be clear... but it's doubly hard to be a mod on SO)
 
@Catija That's a quite significant number, and a goodly percentage of the total. That's something to be pleased about.
 
@Catija What's the problem in escalation procedure apart from the hard effort it takes from your side? I mean "hearing nothing"
 
Thanks Catija
 
@Catija Yeah, it's not an easy position. From what I've seen from the outside, it's really a lot of work.
 
The escalations get plopped in a system we don't use frequently (formerly FreshDesk and currently Jira)... so they're kinda easy to forget about when you're overwhelmed with other projects like building a training program for mods, creating a new Mod Agreement, building a moderator council... working with the devs/designers on projects... communicating and participating on meta to help people out...
We have reminders and we try to work on things when we can but unless we say "I'm going to just do this for an hour"... it's unlikely we'll do much. And, to be honest, those ones I handled, I did on a Saturday... so... :/
 
12:49 AM
In short, there's a shortage of mods, right?
 
CMs.
 
I keep hearing CMs, but I don't really know what it means. I just say "diamond moderator" if there's a diamond symbol next to the username.
 
I mean... we lost three in January... and we were already understaffed and behind on escalations... I mean, think about it... I wrapped up the escalations to get to January... which means we were already backed up when we lost three people.
 
@ArdentCoder Community Managers, like Shog9 was
 
@ArdentCoder Community Manager. Staff... employee. :) I work here.
We have more access, and mod powers on every site on the network.
 
12:51 AM
@Makyen It would be neat if mods had the option to leave additional information in a flag handling response, e.g. who handled it
 
@Catija Oh, if you work here then you can directly say it to your boss that there's a lot of workload and the company needs more employees?
 
I imagine there are a lot of flag handling situations where mods know the flagger or it's innocuous and the mod wouldn't mind the handler knowing who handled it
 
@TylerH Technically, a mod can add a signature to a flag response (assuming that it's not on a comment).
 
@Catija True...
@ArdentCoder I'm sure the CMs communicate to their boss(es) when their workload is high...
 
@Vickel I don't know Shog9 so I can't really understand what you meant except CM = Community Manager
 
12:53 AM
@TylerH I was under the impression that there was free-form text, in addition to some canned comments.
 
@ArdentCoder This is tragic.
 
@ArdentCoder Community Managers are Stack Overflow employees. They are the ones who guide the moderators and rein them (if necessary)
 
Shog is about the most iconic person on SE other than maybe Jeff/Joel.
 
12:53 AM
@ArdentCoder sooner or later you'll run into one of his posts
 
they interact with the community as well (hence the name)
 
They are basically supermods that get paid
 
I remember, as a newbie calling the CMs "supermods" on the M&TV meta.
It's quaint.
 
I didn't really understand, but I'll go through his profile and check what's the problem
 
/me wonders who the first to call Catija up on one boxing is going to be :p
 
12:57 AM
@Catija Just FYI, we try to avoid onebox formatting here in SOCVR. So, generally, please add a little text to messages which are URLs. I didn't mention it for Shog, because, well, it's Shog9. :)
 
@ArdentCoder btw. Jeff/Joel are the founders of Stackoverflow, what became later StackExchange network
 
@JonClements That would be me. :) I was already writing it. :)
 
I've simply had a look, and it seems like he was a very respected person here and something made him quit?
 
@Makyen gets me every friggin time.
I'm so reliant on them.
 
1:05 AM
they are nice
 
@Catija could it be coincidence that an anagram of makyen is key man? :p
 
@Catija Yeah, they are convenient in a number of situations. I think the problem from our POV is that if people start using them, then everybody will want to use one for each cv-pls request, which would get very noisy quite quickly.
 
Yeah. Not trying to excuse it. I just use chat a ton and this room rarely. I remember sometimes but I was just about to get my oldest ready for bed and rushing.
... which sounds odd unless you know he's only 3.
 
np. I really was OK with the Shog9 one. Those aren't all that big, and .... it's Shog9.
 
I miss having him around so much.
 
1:10 AM
@Catija That can be a really cute age. :) And, a lot of work. :)
@Catija From that, I assume that you've transitioned back to being out of the house most days?
 
Jon Skeet user card probably breaks chat, so don't one box that one :D
 
@Makyen I rarely leave my house. I'm remote, so I work from home.
Oh, haha. I meant Shog!
 
@Catija OK. Then I'm a bit confused. You said you miss having him around so much...
Ohhh... that makes sense!
 
@Makyen I do also miss the boys... they do go to daycare during the day... but it made working next to impossible. :/
 
@Catija wonder if at daycare they're hanging out with their friends and they're all like: "oh - it's so wonderful to get a break from our parents! It'll be so much better when this virus thing is over and they can go back to work" :p
 
1:18 AM
@Catija Yeah, I would expect that would have made it very difficult to spend time concentrating on work for any extended period of time.
 
@JonClements Well... I hope so... Bennett (the older one) would bite Gus multiple times per day.
 
I'd better get back to sleep... just got up briefly to check a DB update is going to be ready for the morning... yawn... night all
 
night o/
 
@JonClements I finally figured out your avatar's character reference
 
1:55 AM
 
user10957435
Is !!/scan generally okay to run here, or should I go to Charcoal for that?
 
@Chipster You can do that here, but if you're going to be interacting with SD quite a bit, or focusing on a user, we prefer that you go to Charcoal.
 
user10957435
@Makyen Okay. Thanks.
 
user10957435
@Braiam Other than the current answer (which is basically a link only answer), I don't really see anything wrong with the question. What exactly is unclear about it?
 
@Chipster What part he's having trouble with? Writting the actual page or making the web server serve it when a 404 need to be responded.
 
user10957435
2:05 AM
@Braiam "So I just made a page that will act as my 404 landing page." That sounds like the OP is having problems with the server-side. It sounds like to me the HTML part is already written.
 
@Chipster "sounds" is not very helpful, since he also claims having problems with the html side. I could answer it (as I've written the actual and configured web servers to serve them) but I don't know what part of the process OP is having trouble with.
 
user10957435
@Braiam Fair enough. You've talked me into it.
 
2:25 AM
 
@Chipster How is that about general computing?
 
@Chipster I would go with general off topic.
 
user10957435
@10Rep It's just tagged linux and is asking why a program isn't running. Though now that I'm re-reading it, it may be less general computing than I had originally thought. I think Unclear still applies, though, as there is no code with it.
 
Well I'm now guilty of adding extra spaces to a question to get SO to accept it...but it was a post I edited, not my own :-) and I voted to close.
 
@Chipster Yes, it's about generating an APK, but doesn't include anything about the actual project. I would put, needs more detail + MCVE
 
user10957435
2:31 AM
Question for @Makyen, (as I'm assuming you're the person who will best be able to answer it) why didn't this report show up in SOCVR?
 
@Chipster "potentially bad keyword" is an experimental reason so it only gets reported in HQ and a couple other dedicated rooms
 
^ that
 
@10Rep considering the name of the script, it may not even be OP's software.
 
user10957435
@10Rep Sounds good. Too late now to change the reason for my vote now, though.
 
user10957435
@tripleee Or you might be able to answer it instead, lol. Thanks. That makes sense.
 
2:33 AM
@Chipster I wonder why they have that "9 seconds left for editing" here.
 
@Chipster So far, the choice has been to not have posts which are detected for only experimental reasons reported into SOCVR.
 
@Chipster I literally just woke up and opened my computer
 
@Braiam I'm pretty sure the OP is asking how to use this tool but I'm rather unclear on what actually is going on...there doesn't seem to be an error in the output.
 
user10957435
@Makyen Sniped. Thanks for wanting to help.
 
@RyanM Yeah, I know. I wanted to give OP the benefit of doubt.
 
2:34 AM
Is it appropriate to flag as plagiarism an answer that is a word for word copy (other than one variable name change) of another answer that was posted earlier (8 minutes, so you couldn't really say you were editing at the same time) on the same question stackoverflow.com/questions/62668176/…?
 
user10957435
@Makyen That makes sense. Noted for later. I think I need to hang out in HQ proper a bit more. Then I'll know more.
 
ie. he actually came up with a similar name for a tool
 
Still need an "sd ugh" for obviously terrible false-positives.
(this is a joke suggestion, to be clear)
 
@Chipster np. Yeah, most of the SmokeDetector traffic is in Charcoal HQ.
 
@Nick Yes, just put a custom flag, and a mod will look into it. Shouldn't be any problem.
 
2:36 AM
@tripleee not enough downvotes on the question to delete it yet...
 
@Nick trivial enough that it could be just a coincidence
 
@tripleee mmmm... I dunno, they copied the double-space typo in Nick's answer. That'd be a heck of a coincidence.
 
@RyanM seems to be copied from the OP's original code
 
@tripleee Plus, looking at the timings, I am sure it was a copy.
 
user10957435
@Makyen I keep forgetting Smokey is network wide, so I keep forgetting to check HQ.
 
2:39 AM
@tripleee Yep, you're right. Don't mind me.
I agree with tripleee now. Could be a coincidence.
 
@Chipster Ahhh, yeah... come on over to the dark side... :)
 
@Makyen They have pudding?
 
user10957435
:D
 
@Braiam We could. We definitely have coffee, and sometimes tea. :)
 
but mostly spam
5
 
user10957435
2:43 AM
!!/coffee
 
@Chipster brews a cup of Ristretto for @Chipster
 
@tripleee I FREAKING KNEW IT!
 
Thanks for the input. I'll just let it go...
 
@10Rep thanks for the ping...
 
Then don't have such a short username.
 
2:51 AM
It's my name Cat! :p
 
:D
Chat ping be kinda dumb. If two people have the same username, they both get pinged. That's why direct replies in busy rooms can be... a safer bet.
 
I remember Tim and Nick issues in internal SE chat.
 
Y'all probably all know that, though.
 
And on the tavern.
 
I changed Rob's username on MSE to "ert" because there were two "rob"s in there regularly.
 
user10957435
2:54 AM
@Catija Is that a bug or a feature?
 
Yes?
 
user10957435
:D
 
@Catija I, too, do not [personally] know Shog, and I can confirm from reading his writing that this is, in fact, tragic.
 
Thing is... if you actually pick a username from the auto-complete... you'd imagine that it'd actually just ping the one person... but it doesn't.
@RyanM :D Shog's the best. He's why I wanted this job.... makes the last six months a bit confusing, to be honest.
God, has it been six months.
Ugh.
Now I need to go cry in a corner again.
 
Time has gotten...hard to keep track of post...oh, March.
 
2:56 AM
Did something happen in March?
 
@Catija Whatever happened to that project about unique ids...
 
:hides:
@Braiam Works fine with superpings. :) Also, balpha left and chat hasn't been touched in years for the most part.
 
@Catija yeah, I presumed as much.
 
@Nick See... I can ping Nick just fine. :P
 
user10957435
What happens if I ping a letter like a? Does everyone whose username starts with a get pinged, or must it be a valid username?
 
2:57 AM
@Catija Google Chat has a fascinating variant on that...when you @ someone in a message, it inserts their into name as text with an @, but it remembers which one you picked. The upshot of this is that if you copy-paste it, the highlight doesn't come along, because it's just text and wasn't picked from the highlight selection box.
 
@Chipster 3 letters minimum for a successful ping
 
^^^
 
:sob:
 
@RyanM probably some js magic maginthy
 
user10957435
3:00 AM
@Braiam I see. Will it ping everyone that matches those letters, then, or does it have to be a valid username?
 
wait what you can do that?! TIL
 
Thanks for resisting the urge to actually edit it and double ping me...
 
@Catija you didn't ping me at all! :-)
 
@Nick Nope. Superpings are magic.
 
@RyanM mods+ only, not a user thing
 
3:00 AM
:sob:
 
Superpings are magical. I can ping anyone, even someone who's never used chat before.
 
user10957435
@Catija Is that for me? I can't tell all the way.
 
@Chipster Strings, not full names. So if someone pings "rob", anyone named "rob" or "robert" or anything else that starts with it...
 
@Catija I know, I want already to reach the situations beyond stupid computer knowledge
 
user10957435
Oy. That's awful.
 
3:03 AM
So, similarly, you can ping me with just "cat"...
Which is ... surprisingly not a super common string.
Yes, @Chip it can be somewhat frustrating. :D
Or is "Chips" better?
 
Can someone explain what this room is about, I don't really understand it. I read the brief description and looked your the site
 
:D
 
user10957435
I propose a troll bot then that pings every combination of letters so then everyone on the entire network will get pinged into the room. And lest anyone in the future try to take me seriously, let me clarify that I'm joking.
 
@Catija So you can ping Jeff Atwood? Wow...
 
@BradleyKirkland Don't judge the room on the last 10 minutes of drivel.
3
 
3:05 AM
@Chipster you can only ping people who've been active in the room in the last 30 days iirc
 
Hahaha, that's why I thought i'd ask
 
user10957435
@BradleyKirkland Welcome. Have you taken the tour yet?
 
@Nick I think it's more like 7-14.
14, I think...
 
@BradleyKirkland We close things. And garden. And Swap recipes. Mostly gardening closing things
 
Irw... (I recalled wrongly)
 
3:06 AM
So when you say close things do you mean help someone who has an open StackOverflow question and no one is answering it?
 
Depends on your definition of help...
 
PHP help, i'm trying to code someone in PHP with laravel but am lost AF lol I'm literally on the verge of hiring someone on freelancer for help but I want to be helped not have it done for me so I can learn it
 
Anyway, I'm off, only popped in because I was rudely pinged ;)
 
user10957435
@BradleyKirkland Uh, not exactly. "Closing" means closing the question. We "close" questions that are off-topic for the site, or otherwise won't generate helpful answers.
 
It's a pretty common misconception, though... that people think that closing means "solving"... we "close" tickets all the time in software, which means they're solved...
 
3:08 AM
Can you review mine, have like 70 views and no answers, but not just close it off more help me make it more answerable (if that makes sense)
 
... makes one wonder how we ended up with that terminology.
 
Yeah, English is pretty odd how words have multiple definitions, then throw into the mix the addition of technical terms like you said how solving is like closing
 
@Catija seeing as I hadn't finished leaving.... Often closure is actually more synonymous with "completed" than "solved". Tickets are often given a status of "resolved" and then "closed"
 
@Nick And I deleted the "one last ping for the road" response that I had written out... :P Silly me.
 
I don't have enough rep for a bribe... I mean bounty
 
3:11 AM
@BradleyKirkland Or even how the same word pronounced differently with vastly different meanings can be spelled the same (like "sewer")
 
Exactly!
 
user10957435
@BradleyKirkland Which one?
 
Sewer and...?, dunno about you but for someone that sews I use seamster/seamstress, and tailor for full garments as opposed to repairs
 
Both lol, but I was meaning @Machavity
 
@BradleyKirkland assuming you're talking about this post, it's unclear to me exactly what problem you're having making an endpoint with a UUID. Where to put it, how to make it a string, general design advice (off-topic)...none of your code/pseudocode mentions UUIDs.
 
3:13 AM
@Chipster Based on the description, this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/62636223/…
 
@Nick Where I work, we employ people to sew, and not in a clothing way. seamster tends to be used as a synonym for tailor
 
(also I should note that I'm pretty unlikely to answer your question because I don't know PHP)
 
@Machavity I feel like I asked a question about this on ELU once.
 
@RyanM UUID is in the migration file as it's MVC
What I am trying to do is achieve the data structure that I made a template for
 
3:16 AM
I should spend time on ELU...I find linguistics fascinating and love those sorts of questions.
 
Fair point about the non-clothing sewing... Although seamster still isn't synonymous with tailor imo, maybe a culture thing /shrug
 
@BradleyKirkland Assuming you mean this Q it's a bit on the broad end. You talk about the structure, but not a specific question
 
sending data and retrieving it as a UUID, since it's a RCS application It needs to determine the data based on the template I shared
 
Asking how to make a UUID is fine. Asking how to do it in Laravel is fine. But the Q doesn't seem to be MRE
 
So the question is more like how do I achieve this structure, I don't really know how to word the title because I've never used API :/
 
3:19 AM
@Catija <insert joke about citing rule number about linking own posts>
 
user10957435
@BradleyKirkland Laravel isn't my strong suit, so I don't think I can actually answer your question. But as far as the question itself goes, it's not apparent in the question itself what problem you're actually trying to solve.
 
@Nick ... then I'm doubly a failure because that's the second time in the last couple of hours.
 
@Nick Cat is like Santa. She sees you when you're sleeping. She pings when you're awake. She knows when you've been flagged for no good, so be good or she'll ban you for 37645490 hours
 
It's 4am and I'm talking to a TF2 engineer and a Cat about sewing terminology...
 
I'm trying to achieve the data template because it needs to determine the type of content based on the type like SMS, Email, RCS etc. My trouble is the question needs to be written by someone who know API but I have no clue the correct way to say it lol
 
user10957435
3:21 AM
@Machavity "She sees you when you're sleeping" That's a rather frightening concept when you think about it.
 
I dislike API because I have no idea how to do it and can't find anything useful online for my use case
Once I have done this I need to add in failover with Vonage API
 
@BradleyKirkland Maybe you need to post a job listing then. SO just isn't a good fit for that type of Q. See Where to start
 
@Makyen :)
 
That's why I came to chat because I thought someone who I can talk it through would be able to determine either the solution or be able to guide me through rewriting what I am after
 
@AdrianMole No nobody will think I am a fan of :)
 
user10957435
3:26 AM
@BradleyKirkland I mean what you have told us in here could go into the question itself and that might make it more answerable.
 
@bad_coder Sorry I missed this, thank you :)
 
@Nick There's no rule forbidding you from linking your own posts. In fact we say that it's normal for someone active in a tag to be closing some questions with questions they've answered as the duplicate target. Yes, if someone just comes in to spam their question (nobody is doing that here and now), that's not acceptable, but if your own question or answer is relevant to the conversation, then there's nothing inherently wrong in linking it. cc @Catija
 
@BradleyKirkland the second link in Machiavity's latest comment I think summarizes what many of us here would try to tell you, probably less succinctly and lucidly. That is plenty of help right there already
 
@BradleyKirkland While I don't have the time (or PHP knowledge) to guide you through it, I'd leave you with this tip: Think of your API like a function, and what your API returns like you'd think of a class in your system. Your API is just a method that takes some string parameters and returns an object of some sort. It just does it over the HTTP protocol.
 
@Machavity Wait... I can? Is this a CM thing that no one told me about because I'm pretty sure that I can't see people when they're sleeping and... to be honest... uh... I don't know that I want to.
 
3:30 AM
@Makyen I know ^^ it was a joke
 
@Catija It's the extra super ping. Four @s at the start of a message instead of two.
 
:D
 
The rule as I recalled it was "no asking for action on your own posts", like pls requests
 
So... if oneboxes are banned, does that mean that someone'd kick me out if I used an actual emoji rather than ascii art?
Also, I don't think I've ever banned anyone for 4000+ years. Ten seems to be plenty.
 
@Catija I figured you could have Adam parse the logs for you. "Nick closed his web socket at 07:31 UTC and opened it at 15:20 UTC"
Anyways, bedtime for me. Night, Cat :)
 
3:35 AM
@Nick I expected that, but it wasn't clear that was communicated to Catija. I responded to you instead of Catija, because of the multi-person ping issue with @Nick. However, it looks like I just interpreted things too seriously. Sorry about that.
@Vega Hmmm... I didn't even know about that language.
 
@Makyen Oh no need to worry, better safe than sorry, what you might need to worry about is pinging both Nicks with that message :p, me from the reply and both of us from your code mention, as it is still highlighted to me :sigh: SO chat problems
 
@Machavity Night! ... also, 4 am... go to bed, @Nick :D
 
Yep, gn o/
 
I just got the little (1*) in my page title. But I'm starting to feel neglected now...
 
@Nick Arg. I thought code format prevented pings.
 
3:40 AM
@Nick Hi, Nick! We like you, too!
 
@Makyen apparently not...
 
@Makyen Yeah... I thought that once, too... it was either Taryn or Adam, I think... who was the ... target of that error. :/
 
I'm kind of lurking here a lot anyway so the odd false ping doesn't really worry me.
 
Dang it.
 
user10957435
Spaces would, though, I think.
 
3:43 AM
Are there multiple Taryns?
 
@‎C‎hipster
does that highlight you?
 
user10957435
@CodyGray There's only one way to find out, lol.
 
Oohh, sneaky, a non-breaking space.
 
user10957435
@RyanM Nope. No ping for me. What did you do?
 
Yeah, I was going to try @​Chipster.
 
3:44 AM
@CodyGray Close! Non-breaking space would insert a space. It's a left-to-right mark.
well...a couple. I wanted to be sure.
 
If mine worked, it was a zero-width space.
 
When I said "non-breaking space", my mind was thinking "zero-width joiner"
I see now that there is no possible way anyone but me could have known this
Most of them get sanitized out for the comment character minimums, by the way.
 

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