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12:00 AM
@Dharman At least one potential employer in the valley told me I was expected to work any day with a d in it...
 
@Nick That is, unfortunately, not that uncommon.
 
12:29 AM
@Makyen indeed. But I was fortunately in the position of being able to just say no.
 
Why does this need more than 3 delete votes to die? stackoverflow.com/q/38054669/2943403
 
The more up votes it has the more delete votes needed to remove it
 
@mickmackusa 77 upvotes on the accepted answer...
 
and?
 
It has a lot of views. Seems like a good flagpost.
 
12:36 AM
Upvotes on an answer doesn't make the an exact duplicate question any less of an exact duplicate question. Alive to Die has a long history of answering questions that he knows are basic duplicates.
 
I'm just presuming that raises the threshold to delete...
 
@mickmackusa That has 62k views, which implies that search result are finding it, rather than the duplicates which you used to close it 2 days ago. It does not appear that the duplicates have been edited recently so that they will be found with the same searches that people are finding this with.
 
Maybe people would find the more comprehensive and earlier one if this one wasn't in the search results anymore.
 
@mickmackusa Maybe the ones you feel are more comprehensive should be edited to make them more likely to match searches which will find the post you want to delete.
 
I have no problem with that @Makyen But should I be cramming a bunch of function names in the title?
 
12:41 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, we don't permit duplicates of currently active requests.
@mickmackusa That's a good question. I'm not a SME, so it's not easy for me to pick out what users might be searching for. It's quite possible that users are searching for various function names, but it could also be other things. In at least one instance, I've resorted to just putting a list of potential matches in a question. The question where I did that had an answer that covered the general case of an error, which might be seen as a result of calling multiple different methods.
 
12:56 AM
@mickmackusa It needs 8 votes to be deleted because it is highly upvoted. I do not see what is wrong with this question. I don't know why it got closed now or why it should be deleted. Looks like useful content to me.
 
I am struggleing to see how anyone who understands php cannot see how this is an exact duplicate question that should have been closed and removed years ago -- before it had the chance to receive so many upvotes.
 
I would even dare to say that deleting such questions is vandalism. We should only delete content if it brings a positive outcome. I do not see what we gain by deleting this question. There's not a single downvote on any answer and the question has only 2 downvotes. It has a lot of views, too. Keeping this question around will not deteriorate the site.
 
There is absolutely nothing lost by removing this page.
nothing.
What is the cost of keeping redundant pages? Thorough researchers (such as myself) waste time. They will need to read two full pages instead of just one to determine that they have all of the wisdom on offer.
 
@mickmackusa Maybe if you were to delete it back then it would be better. Now it has proven that it attracts traffic and people find the answers useful. We could say that if we delete 90% of questions on Stack Overflow nothing will be lost. We should rather focus on deleting harmful content of very low quality. There's plenty of really really bad PHP posts. Before we get to deciding on the faith of popular question we should delete all the really bad ones.
 
I am a self-taught / StackOverflow-taught develop. I've learned most of what I know about development from this community. I "waste" a lot of time researching when I find repeated pages/questions/answers. We can help researchers to waste less time by removing redundant content.
 
1:04 AM
If the answers provide good solutions then why do you consider that to be time wasted? You found a solution. Maybe not the one you were looking for, but it is still a solution.
 
@mickmackusa you could ask a moderator to merge the question into the duplicate.
 
It is a waste of time when I need to compare answers to the exact same question that occur on two separate pages.
 
@Braiam @mickmackusa ^
 
I don't know that I want a moderator to port the answers from a question that is 5 years later to the earlier page -- this will only create page bloat on the earlier page because the suggestions are the same.
 
Well, then what do you want? I'm offering you a path of least resistance.
 
1:09 AM
I think it is clear what I want, but I am fine with not getting it. I am not the boss of anyone.
 
I feel your pain. I learned how to code from Stack Overflow, too. The only reason why I started to participate is that I wanted to remove the harmful stuff that was showing up instead of the good content. There is so much bad advice on Stack Overflow. Often wrong solutions get upvotes and I do not want other people to learn the bad practices as I have learned.
I fight bad coding practices in PHP rigorously. I feel that when we focus on good content and we ignore the obviously bad posts, then we really waste our efforts.
 
I am sure you know that I am not ignoring bad posts. I am scrutinizing all content on this site. Every micro-improvement to Stack Overflow is a win as far as I am concerned. If we all help a little bit, things will get better.
 
I envy your gold badge because you have the power to remove very low quality posts singlehandedly. I can't even ask for closing here because we are not allowed to ask for closing old questions. I have a list of hundreds questions that should really be closed, but even if I voted I would still need to find two more people to get them closed. There's over a thousand duplicates for stackoverflow.com/questions/2973202/…
>1000 for an API which was removed from PHP few years ago. Who needs that?
I won't mention the duplicates for Undefined variable.
 
It greatly irritates me that you don't have your gold badge yet @Dharman You are an exact case where Stack Overflow is withholding privileges from someone who could be a more profound contributor. I had to wait a long time for my gold badge because I don't play the FGITW game.
...family time, I'm out.
 
I have managed to delete between 2500 to 3000 low quality questions already but it is only a drop in the ocean.
 
2:07 AM
What should you do if the OP completely changed their question after you answer it?
 
2:27 AM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Roll it back. Editing to invalidate answers isn't permitted. They need to ask a new question. OTOH, there are times when people answer where the question can have multiple possible interpretations. Adjudicating that situation becomes significantly more complex.
I'd note, however, that "multiple possible interpretations" doesn't mean the OP just realizing that "the questions doesn't say what I meant/really needed to know". If the clear interpretation of the original question is different than the question the OP intended to ask, then the OP needs to ask a new question, not change the current one.
 
 
3 hours later…
 
that feeling when all the posts disappear when you're just about to hit "OK" to move them :)
 
@Makyen Almost like the feeling when you're just about to post your answer and the Question disappears :)
 
@Makyen yw ;)
 
:)
@Scratte Fortunately, not nearly that bad. It takes far less effort to move completed requests from here to the Graveyard than it does to compost and post an answer (even one that's just a quick FGITW answer).
 
6:42 AM
@Makyen I envy those that can do the FGITW Answers. They must have good memories. I always have to compile and check and reread and fix grammatical errors.. my brain needs an upgrade :D
 
@Scratte I'd expect that the significant majority of FGITW answers are posted without having been checked to see if they are functional or correct, but with just an assumption that what was written is good. What you describe is a different level of care than I believe most FGITW answer get.
 
@Makyen don't underestimate hoe much distance my hand has to move and the energy my finger requires to make those clicks. Let alone the brain-power to judge if that looks about right to be moved. It is an almost unbearable responsibility ...
 
@Makyen There is the care factor sure, but I think there's certainly other factors. It's the unfairness of life in general :) Some people just have really good memories. They'll have read some man page 3 years ago and they still remember the options. They're uniquely qualified to write good FGITW Answers that never needs even an edit.
 
@rene Is there any SEDE where I see how many closed vote supported by rene , Makyen .... ?
 
@Shree only on actual closed and not deleted questions. See the posthistory table, rows with posthistorytypeid = 10, the Text field will have the JSON with the close voters.
Turns out I did a query on that earlier: meta.stackexchange.com/a/323259/158100
 
6:59 AM
Thanks . I dig more.
 
@rene Yeah, I probably should put the "move" button down to the bottom right, so you don't have to move the mouse alllll the way to the top-left of the popup. :) Admittedly, it does take some effort to double-check that all the messages are ones that should be moved, but it's gotten fairly rare where it's picking up something that shouldn't be moved. [There is an outstanding change I should push regarding not considering comment-locked questions as something users can't deal with.]
 
I'm glad we're in the nitpicking phase of the development of that user script ;) your effort is much appreciated.
 
Thanks. I'm glad we're there too. While there are always additional things I'd like it to do, that script is at the stage where it's good enough for it's primary role the vast majority of the time.
@Scratte There are other factors. Yes, a part of it is going to be how good a person's memory is, but a large part is just going to be experience (i.e. number of years programming in that language, and/or experience giving quick answers in the SO format, etc.).
 
@rene Actually I try to see how many close votes with mine along with rene ..... :)
 
7:20 AM
@Makyen Yes, I agree, but only to an extent. I've done more than enough pl/sql programming to have it all in memory and yet, it's not :) Details needs to be sorted by trying it out. I think this is also one of the reasons some people fail certifications.
..was it v$session or was is v$sessions ? ;)
 
7:50 AM
@Dharman lol! "Not flagged, because I am skimpy" :D
 
8:36 AM
There's some information here if the links are removed. So.. is it NAA?
 
9:27 AM
@Scratte it still needs a lot of work to make it useful... an actual piece of code would be great!
 
@Scratte 100 flags is not enough. I run out once so I decided not to flag some of them.
 
@Nick I agree. I'm in between flagging or not :)
@Dharman Oh. I see. That makes sense. The message is still funny though :)
 
\o
o/
 
 
1 hour later…
11:29 AM
@rene thanks.
 
11:56 AM
@Dharman error: close reason not found: lacks minimal understanding. Did you mean: needs details or clarity?
 
@JohnDvorak I see you are not backwards compatible
 
I am, I just heed deprecation notices.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:03 PM
Is this Question on topic?
 
1:14 PM
@Scratte It's on topic. That doesn't mean it's a good or an acceptable question ;)
 
@Braiam Ok :)
 
2:40 PM
Hi o/
 
3:32 PM
If someone is feeling generous with their editing, I have a case where an answer needs to be copy-pasted from a question into the answer.
 
@Scratte Another time, please include the link. If you don't include it, we're forced to ask for it, rather than just doing the edit.
@Scratte Note that this is something you could do yourself. You just need to be explicit in your edit comment that you are copying content from the OP's non-answer (link) into the question.
 
@Makyen Yes, I know. I was afraid someone would just flag the answer as NAA. While it very well serves it's purpose once the content is edited from the question into the answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/61838611/…
@Makyen It's the other way around. Meaning I'd have to do two edits and very likely be rejected on both.
 
@Scratte That is NAA. Why should that be edited into the question?
 
@Makyen It shouldn't. The answer is in the question now. They didn't understand that the question should not contain the answer :)
 
@Scratte Are you sure you linked to the right page?
 
3:39 PM
@Makyen I didn't.. I'm struggling with copy-paste ;)
 
@Scratte Isn't the corresponding question either too broad or a resource request (tutorial)?
 
@honk Yes. On that one, I would think it is. But it was the wrong link.
 
@Scratte OK. Done. You can delete your comment on the answer now.
 
@Makyen Already did that :) Thank you :)
 
np
 
3:48 PM
Sometimes.. being <2K makes me feel so.. incomplete :D
 
@Scratte I guess you will be over it in 2-3 months ;)
 
@honk Not sure about that. If I do NAA handling, I don't have time to answer anything. So maybe.. by Christmas :)
 
@Scratte Good timing for a nice present ;)
 
So.. a rollback war will automatically send a flag, right? Does that also happen if the war is between a user and themself?
 
4:02 PM
@Scratte Not the way that I normally hear the flag described, but that doesn't mean much, as it would be easy to imprecisely describe what the requirements are for the flag to be raised.
 
4:24 PM
@Makyen Ok. Good. It seems the user is not settled on their version :) But no answers, so I'm just watching the thing unfold.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:31 PM
Can someone please confirm this answer is the standard procedure for reviewers on the LQP queue? (If there's a more canonical or accurate post please share.)
 
@pkamb That you have the same question is not really a good reason to reopen the question. Does it need more answers before the question itself is improved?
 
I don't know if answers should be added before/after the question is improved. But yes it needs more answers. The remainder(dividingBy: function was added to Swift several years after that question was closed.
 
@pkamb It's unclear in the way that OP claims that he used modulo to verify if it's odd or even and didn't work, that issue hasn't been solved.
 
@pkamb That suggestion is already in one of the answers.
 
I think we could delete that line in the OP to make it more of a general purpose question
 
5:39 PM
@pkamb that could work, but then, why Apple documentation exist?
 
Personally I think Stack Overflow pages are better than documentation, especially Apple's documentation.
 
@bad_coder You could try the cross-site SE duplicate, if you haven't seen it yet.
Other than that, "Looks OK" should be pushed very rarely.
 
@pkamb Maybe it's because everything Apple is so easy to use, there's no need for documentation :)
 
Hi
 
OP's specific modulo problem removed: stackoverflow.com/questions/24056985/…
 
6:20 PM
When it is reopened I am going to post a new answer for the new function that was added to Swift 5 in 2018
 
@pkamb Prior to your edits, and the others resulting from the discussion here, when was the last activity on that post? Seems too old to be bringing here, without some recent activity.
 
@bad_coder That answer is mostly good. However, the section about code-only answers is trying to be too nuanced. Code-only answers that might be an answer to the question should not be deleted through the LQP queue. If it's obvious the code-only answer can't be an attempt to answer the question, then it shouldn't be deleted through the LQP review process.
OTOH, it's fine to leave a comment on such answers politely asking for the user to add some explanation and noting that answers with an explanation tend to be better received (i.e. get more upvotes).
The basic criteria for the LQP queue is that answers which don't attempt to answer the question, or which give no actual answer (e.g. link-only answers), should be deleted through the LQP queue.
 
@MikeM. several comments in 2019, which presumably would have been new answers if the post was not closed.
and plenty of upvotes and views. It's the canonical google result.
 
@MikeM. (cc @pkamb) Our requirement for recent activity applies only to cv-pls requests. The reason for that restriction is to control the volume of cv-pls requests which we get here in SOCVR, so that we are not overwhelmed by cv-pls requests. It doesn't apply to other types of requests, because we don't appear to routinely reach the limit of other requests which the room can handle.
 
@Makyen Is there a not where it's not suppose to be in that last sentence?
 
6:32 PM
@Scratte Yep.
@Makyen The last sentence here should have read "If it's obvious the code-only answer can't be an attempt to answer the question, then it should be deleted through the LQP review process." (cc: @bad_coder)
 
@Makyen thanks. I saved your "summary" to file for easy revision. I had that impression from "Late Answers" queue. But LQP adds more responsibility since you're objectively voting towards deletion, or not. (In conclusion, I'll try to understand if the "code only answers" actually try to answer the problem or if the content is completely besides the point.
 
@Makyen Ah, I thought deletes were the only ones without time limits. Thanks!
@pkamb My bad. Ignore me.
 
@MikeM. np. It's easy/common for that confusion to arise, particularly given that cv-pls requests are, by a considerable margin, the majority of the requests we see.
 
6:45 PM
@bad_coder np. Yeah, it can be confusing. It doesn't help that there are a considerable number of answers that get deleted through the LQP queue that "shouldn't" be deleted that way. Mostly, what I've described is how moderators will evaluate the review/post if it goes to them. A large number of people treat reviews in the LQP queue as a way to delete marginal content, not just very low quality and NAA posts.
It's not intended to be that way. The LQP queue is intended to be deleting answers that fit the strict definition of Very Low Quality or Not An Answer. But, that's not how a large percentage of people treat the LQP reviews. The trouble is that moderators sometimes go through such reviews and issue review bans. It hasn't appeared that it's been a focus of moderators for a while, but it has happened in the past.
 
I've come across I think two NAA's. Any thoughts? flutter Question
 
Personally, I find that a significant quantity of LQP reviews should get "Looks OK". For a good number of those, I'd even be fine with using a delete-vote on them from outside the LQP queue, if they qualify by having a score of <= -1.
 
I'm not understanding the hesitation on that reopen vote. Thoughts? Perfectly valid question now, if it wasn't before. And the views/votes prove it has been useful, even closed.
 
@Scratte I'd say low quality, but not very low quality and both are just a bit above NAA (not by a lot). Admittedly, I'm not a SME, so I'm assuming some context.
 
@Makyen OK. I clicked the link :)
 
6:56 PM
The original was low-quality due to the typo/compiler mistake. But that's been edited-out to make it generic/canonical for this question.
don't really know how how to improve the question much, as it's a "title-only" question really.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
8:28 PM
Was there some update today? Seems from a few hours ago pages are more static. An answer used to just go very transparent if I had the page opened in a tab. Now it seems like nothing happened. If I try to interact with the answer after it's been removed, I just get a notice that it's really gone.
Missed a sentence there: ..if I had the page opened in a tab, when the answer is removed.
 
@Scratte SE's WebSocket has been experiencing issues. It's something I've been looking into for SmokeDetector, because it's been causing SD to not be scanning for up to several hours. The error is that the WebSocket, which is how pages get all the dynamic change notifications, will connect, but never deliver anything other than SE's "heartbeat" messages, which are used to determine if the link is active. In my testing, I experienced that connections could fail up to a 15.5% of the time.
 
@Makyen You just made me very happy :) Thank you :)
 
np. Just FYI: the issue has existed since at least Monday.
 
Ahh.. Thanks :) I probably didn't notice it because I was on an NAA break.
About the rejected migration. It looks like this, but it can't be.. there's another answer on that.
 
Zoe
8:48 PM
@Scratte The other answer is there, but was deleted when it got migrated back
The other answer was posted on meta, which is why that's kept separately and not migrated back
 
@Zoe How very confusing..
 
Zoe
Migration, like several other site mechanics, is weird xd
 
But.. now it's deleted. But it's still there in meta
 
Zoe
Another weird thing is that the question on meta isn't deleted, but has been locked so it can't be deleted, while the answer posted on meta is unlocked
The new answer could've stopped re-deletion, but I don't remember how that works
 
So.. even if meta rejects the migration, it's migrated.
 
Zoe
8:53 PM
yeah, it's kept anyway
 
And it doesn't even say that it's locked. The only hint is the disabled comment notice.
 
Zoe
it really doesn't
It not being deleted is weird, but I don't remember that part.
It's kept for 10k users for post notice purposes
Migrated to meta notices in the timeline when the post has been perma-nuked after migration was rejected would die
@Scratte Eh, it kinda does
> This post was returned to Stack Overflow. It is not currently accepting new answers or interactions. Learn more
 
Oh. I thought it had to have the word "lock" in it :)
 
Zoe
same xd Might've changed with the post notice change
 
It's like when a post is closed. It says the same sort of thing
 
8:57 PM
Is this looking for off-site resources? stackoverflow.com/q/50472082/1839439
 
@Dharman I would say yes. Even more so from the comments.
 
Zoe
@Dharman yes.
 
Ok, then it is closed. I think I still do not understand docker and this thing is a grey area for me.
 
Zoe
Docker itself isn't off-topic
asking how to do stuff with docker isn't off-topic. Asking for images to do something is software recs
 
@Dharman Think of it like a library :) It's just a very broad one..
 
9:03 PM
Then maybe it should've been closed as too broad? But it also doesn't fit because the question is clear and has a simple answer. What would be if I posted the docker file in an answer?
 
@Dharman Then your answer would be an answer, but OP would not have liked it :)
 
I've seen some people say that Docker questions should be asked on Server Fault, but there is a big overlap with programming, so I tend to be OK with them on SO (probably also since I've asked a few of them!)
 
@Dharman No. The broad was just my interpretation of "docker as a library".
 
Zoe
Docker is a framework that creates and runs virtualized containers. A dockerfile defines what a specific container is. Asking about problems with dockerfile is probably on-topic, but requesting entire dockerfiles is software recs in this context, but can also be a too broad "gimme teh codez"
(that last part assumes it's on-topic as a piece of software commonly used by programmers, which it is. I vaguely remember docker being in a bit of a grey area in general though)
 
When I look at my backlog of mysqli questions I have to clean up I feel powerless. Even with the amazing help from this room I think I am years away from cleaning it up.
 
9:14 PM
Okay, so there are these questions here that qualify for the RemoveAbandonedClosed Roomba, but aren't being deleted because they were migrated from another site (tl;dr it's due to a code optimization based on a not-true assumption).
 
@Dharman I think we just need to deploy the "new questions are pending" thing :) Then you will not be trying to climb a rising mountain.
 
These questions fall into two categories: questions closed prior to the concept of migration rejection being implemented, and questions closed in June 2019 or later and after the migration stub on the original site had been deleted.
What should be done with these questions?
 
@Dharman I close voted it 5 years ago, I guess that got enough time to be useful ...
 
@gparyani I think you know my answer.
DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!
2
 
Zoe
EXTERMINATE!
nvm, caching
 
9:26 PM
Connecting the dots used to be a good thing..
 
@gparyani Do you have a list, or are these questions for which you have appropriate SO search parameters?
 
RemoveDeadQuestions is also affected by this, but the query doesn't include these yet.
IIRC I had asked you earlier if you could include this as part of your Roomba Forecaster list
 
@gparyani So, your list above was all but two of them?
 
@Makyen The two excluded ones were already deleted.
SEDE is currently at its most outdated time of the week
 
What goes through someone's mind when they answer such question? stackoverflow.com/q/61821545/1839439
 
9:43 PM
@Zoe About the meta question you just edited. Was that title on purpose?
 
Zoe
what did I break? xd
 
Slack Teams? Is that just something I don't know about?
 
@Zoe nevermind.. it wasn't you. I'm going to go back into my corner now
 
Zoe
nah, good catch anyway. Fixed it
 
9:47 PM
"Thank you for reviewing 20 low quality posts today; come back in 2 hours to continue reviewing." :O I only reviewed 35 today.
I think I have seen enough of Stack Overflow for today. BTW LQP needs some help
 
@Dharman I think a moderator just went through a lot of NAA's..
 
10:08 PM
@Dharman You get that when you're over 20 but the queue goes out of the red zone before you hit 40. Seems the "Thank you..." message can only have 20 or 40 as the number.
@Scratte I think the mods have been attacking the queues, in recent days. Yesterday (I think) I noticed one (Sam) have done 82 suggested edit reviews.
 
@AdrianMole I'd check if I could, but since they're not reviews, I can't see how they vanished :) I just lurk in Dharman's room
But.. 82?!?.. Isn't that a little much?
 
LQP doesn't lists anyone above 40 today.
Mods have no limit on what they can do, but what's expected of them is subject to the needs of the site at any time.
 
Sure.. but nobody wants a burned out moderator.
 
Zoe
mods can take care of themselves too
 
10:38 PM
Should I flag a user who is posting many answers just citing a documentation?
 
If the content is in the answer and with attribution, no
Half of the upvoted old content is RTFM, and that's alright. Perhaps the questions can be closed as dupes.
assuming you want to flag as plagiarism (it isn't if there's a link I think) or as NAA (which is isn't if the content is there and not just a link)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:54 PM
Anyway, I pumped the LQP queue with +30 posts and then I was able to finish my remaining 5 reviews. Nobody cuts me off at 35.
 

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