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12:00 AM
Yup
 
I just wish the table of contents had a table of contents
@CodyGray you forgot to copy that part
 
Although, it is a PDF. You can never tell whether kerning errors are intentional.
 
they should have used ritchie text format to ensure proper kernighan
4
 
@CodyGray One of the reason I'm reluctant to update my working link. :)
Its index entry for the "as-if rule" (p 1304) came up in a recent question.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:31 AM
Can a RO or moderator remove this CV-PLS? A gold badge holder just closed the post.
 
1:43 AM
@KenWhite Do you mean the one you most recently posted (i.e. just above the message I'm replying to)?
 
@Makyen: Yes. Sorry - I thought that was clear because I posted it immediately afterward.
 
@KenWhite Np. I just didn't want to move the wrong thing. I considered it quite likely that was the one you wanted moved, but the other possibility was that there was supposed to be a link in your message that didn't end up being there.
 
@Makyen I'll try to be more specific in the future. Appreciate the help (as always). :-)
 
np. I'm happy to help. :-)
 
2:12 AM
@mickmackusa I think the dupe you're looking for is stackoverflow.com/questions/1125730/…, the post you linked as the dupe should also be deleted.
 
2:35 AM
Sure @Nick please clean that up if you have time.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:40 AM
@MikeM. ^ reported to Smokey too
 
@tripleee Thanks.
 
though both of your links are to the same post, what does "title, body taken from" really link to?
apparently the source is actually stackoverflow.com/questions/16736856/…
 
Oh, whoops. Copy/paste fumble. Yeah, that's it.
 
3:58 AM
@MikeM. Somebody edited out the spam link and formatted the question to look a lot better.
... could that have been an innocent mistake?
 
@AdrianMole Looks like.
 
-1
Q: Have you read my [article] about burnination?

Robert ColumbiaI'm writing an article (currently 413 questions) about tag burnination. 1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? No, the questions sharing the tag are not related in any way that would matter to someone claiming to be an expert in "article...

 
 
2 hours later…
6:06 AM
that title page for the C++ draft standard sparks joy
 
 
@RyanM Indeed, I love C++, too. And did you notice the typography and grammar humour? :-)
 
@CodyGray the typography was my favorite part :-) someone put time and care into that keming
 
7:04 AM
is there a good home for Google play store - publish app available ONLY for internal staff (with their own phone)? It's clearly not a programming question, but it's in a weird gray zone between Android.SE and Server Fault.
 
@RyanM definitly not SF
 
@rene yeah it is "deployment to and management of third-party provided information technology platforms" (on-topic) but it's a bit too close to "working with a service provider's management interface, such as cPanel" (off-topic) to actually recommend
 
@RyanM meta post on the subject: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272091/…
 
@rene my impression of that question is that it mostly refers to questions around policy and the process of submitting to an app store (many of which I've voted off-topic) which are clearly off-topic on any conceivable site because they're unanswerable, whereas in this case it's much more "how do I use this tool to administrate my company's mobile devices?" It's clearly off-topic on SO because it's not a programming question, but I was wondering if there's any place it would not be.
It's probably off-topic on Android.SE: "Issues with the Google Play Store (or any other app marketplace) from the point of view of a developer or publisher" though you could argue that it's from the point of view of an IT administrator: they're not really "publishing" apps in the normal sense.
 
Technical questions about App Store distribution are on-topic for SO. See Gilles's answer to the Meta question rene linked.
That particular question is problematic for a different reason: it's both underspecified and too broad at the same time.
 
7:23 AM
oh, ha...well, that text can be hidden at least...(done)
 
Hmm.. I passed a SQL Question yesterday and politely asked them to update their question with a RDBMS.. today I noticed they added the "rdbms" tag.
 
Wait, why did SmokeDetector just bring a post to our attention that was last posted on Dec 12, 2019, and hadn't been edited until Ryan did so after seeing the SD report?
 
I assume it was triggered to read the whole page by the new answer
but that is odd behavior...
 
Yeah, I didn't know that's what it did.
It doesn't make sense for it to scan old, unmodified content just because a new answer is posted.
 
@CodyGray Why not? Wouldn't it be false to assume that old content is fine? The added answer puts the Question on the active list, so noticing if something is wrong kind of makes sense.
 
7:29 AM
@Scratte No, everything we do assumes that old content is fine.
 
but our spam detection reasons get updated constantly, and sometimes they do trigger on old content which was previously flying below the radar
 
@CodyGray Not sure I'm with you. This room closes old Questions if it has recent activity.
 
there is an !!/ignore command to disable further reports for posts, though it gets used very rarely
 
@CodyGray oh that's doubly fascinating...the reports are identical, and no edits occurred in between (or at all, until I edited it)
 
7:32 AM
if there is a consensus among room owners that old posts should not be reported here, I suppose that could be accommodated with a fairly limited amount of effort
or ditto ditto for previously reported posts
 
I'm just surprised to see it doesn't already work that way, especially for previously reported and vetted posts.
 
I agree that the behavior is sometimes confusing and/or annoying; over in Charcoal we probably have a higher tolerance for putting up with fuzzy but marginal behaviors
 
Not an RO but wouldn't it make sense to at least not report...yeah, what Cody said, a post that has already received two fp reports with no intervening edits (especially given that the report is for exactly the same problem that already got the fp)
 
@RyanM that at least should be easy enough; I'll create an issue
github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/issues/3849 feedback and discussion welcome, PRs quadruply so
 
I suspect it comes up fairly rarely since I think we tend to fix the reasons for the false positive anyway, since they are usually something that could use improvement even when not actually spam
 
7:40 AM
@RyanM We exempt smokey from the "recent activity" rule. That rule only applies to cv-pls anyway so Smokey reports weren't subject to it in the first place.
 
@rene was that intended for someone other than me? I only mentioned the fact that it was already reported and declared a false positive for that exact same reason
 
I think that was intended for @Scratte.
I'm still shocked that Smokey analyzes all posts on a page whenever there is unrelated activity there.
I thought it was just looking at the new posts as they came in, with edits also counting.
 
@RyanM I'm just as confused as you are, sorry.
 
@rene I actually didn't see it as Smokey being exempt from the rule. The way I saw it was 1: A new answer is added to a post. That makes the post recent. Now it can be closed in this room. This is no different from 2: A new answer is added to a post. That makes the post recent. Now smokey will see if the thread is okey-dokey.
 
The bots are in many ways completely separate from the humans in this room and the rules which apply to them.
 
7:50 AM
Is there any evidence that there are any humans in this room?
 
It is a blurry line anyway
 
Funny it's you saying that
 
8:28 AM
undisclosed affiliation, apparently
 
8:42 AM
@JohnDvorak that is because I'm pretty funny, despite popular belief.
 
9:01 AM
Now I know Smokey's just messing with us...that one's from 2014
New theory: the bots are the real humans here
 
@RyanM There's an answer from today ;)
 
@Scratte oh I know :-p
@Adriaan Welcome to...quite a lot of the regex tag
there are a couple gold-badge holders that close most of the "please write me a regex for this" questions and/or all the dupes
or it'd be much worse
it has a very unique set of pervasive quality problems
 
@RyanM It's the ultimate learning experience. Ask for a regex. Someone gives a regex. Find out why is works on your own :D
 
@RyanM my pet peeve is "Try this (..)" Why should I "try this", grrr. Another one is "Hope this helps" of course you hope it helps, otherwise you shouldn't have posted :@
 
@Adriaan You don't just comment "Why?" to "Try this":)
 
9:06 AM
I once mentioned this to a fairly new user, who subsequently replied, linking to several answers with >50 score which are code only saying that that's what he based his style on and I should thus shut up
 
@Adriaan the accepted answer is still just code, although it's well-structured enough to be self-explanatory
 
@Adriaan I think I'll adopt it.. see how it pans out :)
 
@Adriaan I've gotten this (usually without the direct suggestion that I shut up) with questions sometimes, but at least those are easy to close when they're used as bad examples.
explaining "well, people are bad at not upvoting terrible content" seems...less compelling :D
recent fascinating example - it's not terrible (it's a dupe) but the whole thing is an upvote-fest for no apparent reason
 
@RyanM That's indeed puzzling. I haven't seen that before in the java tag
 
yeah, or Android...usually stuff gets a few glances. I have exactly one answer in that tag with 8 upvotes, and I have a lot of answers.
 
10:08 AM
 
10:18 AM
^ Obvious spam is obvious
 
^ but it's also a solution to ANY problem. Time to close down SO, peeps - it seems it's not needed any more.
 
:D
 
bahaha
 
@E_net4thepostcleaner got it
 
10:34 AM
10/10
 
viewed: many times :D
 
(I was too lazy to find a figure that looked plausible)
 
A lost opportunity to just leave undefined or NaN. ;)
 
Aww, shuck - that would have been better.
 
10:42 AM
@E_net4thepostcleaner I think it depends on language though. In Java there's a java.lang.Double.POSITIVE_INFINITY: ∞
 
@Scratte Since this is the webâ„¢, JavaScript is mostly expected. I was also talking about how it is represented, rather than code.
Waffling, eh? I don't think you get that when printing positive infinity in Java.
 
Could also just be the classic -2,147,483,648 there is a precedent
 
@E_net4thepostcleaner No, If I remember correctly, it just prints "Infinity" :)
 
@Scratte Exactly.
 
@VLAZ they could just show "almost everyone" when the view count is negative
 
10:48 AM
Isn't it a bit early for that question? It was JUST posted. I already VTCd before I saw it in this chat.
Point is, I suspect it'd be closed without need for extra votes.
 
@VLAZ I prefer the story of overflowing the available cash in Simcity 2000.
Waffles
I mean, pancakes
 
is waffles a joke I'm missing?
 
I also miss waffles :(
 
@RyanM I changed my message after the fact. It didn't have the ": ∞" before the reply. See.. I did it again :)
 
okay now I also miss waffles.
 
10:51 AM
Oopsie.
 
@E_net4thepostcleaner now I'm even more confused
 
@RyanM Maybe the takeaway is that the meaning of waffles is undefined.
 
@Scratte would you say people are waffling on the meaning?
@E_net4thepostcleaner okay there are bunnies involved, I can support this
 
10:57 AM
@RyanM Most definitely :D (Not bunnies. ponies.. rainbow coloured unicorns)
 
The trick is waffles.
 
There is no real trick to waffles, though. They just...are.
 
If they're anything like pancakes, the trick is vanilla extract.
which, for some reason, is also extremely difficult to find in stores mid-pandemic...
 
That, and also the flipping. I never learned to do it.
 
I don't think you're supposed to flip waffles. That might be your problem.
 
11:00 AM
@VLAZ You know that flipping the waffle-maker doesn't change the waffle, right?
 
Screw the flipping, I just grab a spatula or try not to destroy them with a fork and a blunt knife.
 
Was talking about pancakes. However, I also cannot flip waffles.
@Scratte I'd like some scientific research on this.
 
@VLAZ A picture is 1000 words. See: Identical waffles and that toaster looks like it's been beaten a little.. :)
 
I accept your source, since it comes from a trusted site
 
@VLAZ if you want actual research, because you've all got me researching waffle makers because I don't own one and you've made me want waffles... "Flip models take up a lot more space and didn’t yield better results in our tests." - Wirecutter
 
11:08 AM
@RyanM now I feel like I need to get a waffle maker myself...damn it. I may as well go buy one at some point. I need another electrical appliance anyway - a beard trimmer. Both should be in the same store.
I just have to remember which to use where in the mornings...
 
I'd pick the 830 any day over the 840B, just for making all the waffles heart shaped.
 
<3
 
I'm so ready for a heart-shaped waffle with chocolate cover, blueberries and a cherry on top.
 
11:24 AM
^ I'd agree. Just a terrible NAA but likely not spam.
 
@RyanM except that their site already uses hsts
that they name as htst
 
but does it use htst
but yeah, so it does...
well-spotted.
really they should be asking how to make an image maintain its aspect ratio when used as a background
 
This is in the category can you fix thing on [url to spam site] where "thing" isn't broken at mentioned site.
 
@rene But at least they got a bit of PageRank :-p
 
@halfer yep
 
11:33 AM
\o/
 
@halfer fortunately SE is not dumb enough to actually give them PageRank
so really they're just catering to the market of people who want to configure HSTS in Apache and also want to take a tour of another country during a pandemic
it's a very niche market
2
 
@RyanM maybe it's niche but lucrative? I haven't done the market research here, so I'm just guessing.
 
The SD report above is spam. We've seen that domain spammed multiple times and the user is unregistered
@tripleee Apache and htaccess are on-topic.
 
would the .htaccess question also, hypothetically, be on-topic at Server Fault?
 
Should be. Sounds quite relevant for there.
I say as somebody who never participated on SF...
 
11:49 AM
@RyanM You can ask it in either location. You can also ask them on Webmasters.SE
If you have a deep configuration problem, however, I would highly suggest SF. I ran into a problem with nginx last year and got the help I needed on SF (had misconfigured the nginx user)
mostly htaccess is just a giant regex with a few configuration directives. As Apache HTTPD is a programming tool, it's on-topic
 
@Machavity I see we are throwing the "programming tool" around for anything. No, apache isn't a programming tool, it's a web server.
That's it main purpose.
If you go that way, any web server is a programming tool, even lighthttpd
 
If you're running mod_php it's definitely a programming tool. I'd say Apache is more related to programming than Docker, and Docker is on-topic
 
No @Machavity, mod_php is running php via a plugin. That a component of something interprets code doesn't make the whole a programming tool.
 
there are programming questions and borderline questions like what regex to use for rewrites but "what do I put in my configuration file" is not a programming question by any stretch of the imagination IMHO
 
There should be limits.
@tripleee At least most programs have a source of truth for their flavor of regex, so it's more or less defined how a specific regex string would behave
BTW, someone asking how to write regex rewrites for me is a regex apache-flavored question, not an apache question.
 
12:00 PM
Feel free to disagree with Meta. Maybe with Shog9 gone the remaining CMs will change the rules. But has 86k questions
 
@Machavity Many people are robbed every day, that doesn't make it something that we should accept or normalize.
 
I'm not sure this is particularly comparable to robbery, which is clearly bad. This is borderline at worst.
(personally I think this particular question would be a better fit at Server Fault, but it's not totally wrong here)
 
@RyanM it's called reductio ad absurdum, I'm questioning Machavity argument that because it has many questions it should be on topic by default.
 
@Braiam That's quite the straw-man argument. My point is that we have lots of apparently on-topic questions in the tag. A blanket "Apache HTTPD is off-topic" is not feasible
 
A more pointed counter-argument would be "there are also 141k questions with the [windows] tag on the site, that doesn't make all questions about Windows on topic"
 
12:09 PM
absolutely, but "if it's about Apache it is on-topic" is just as bad
 
@Machavity Note here, that I'm not saying that apache is off topic, I'm saying that "all questions about apache are not on topic"
That "There should be limits."
 
On that I agree. I disagree on that one question
 
Limits? Get out!
 
@rene we know your blurriness is to break the limits of imagination.
@RyanM Now, about that... SF topically is defined around "managing [IT] in a business environment"
 
it seems from the actual questions in the tag that there is some controversy...a bunch of similar questions have been closed, and a bunch remain open
 
12:13 PM
In other words, if you mention something not production related, it would be probably closed.
 
@Braiam followed shortly by "If your question is about: managing the hardware or software of servers, workstations, storage or networks...and is not about: consumer workstations or networking...then you’re in the right place to ask your question!"
 
It's a bit of a grey area. I tried drawing the line at installing and OS configuring but got shot down
 
@Machavity I feel that sometimes we go with what people wants, even when what they want is not consistent.
I asked the more pointed question here meta.stackoverflow.com/q/297849/792066
 
A larger issue is that the answer to a major question about what is on-topic on SO is located in a comment thread on an answer to a question with -14 score.
 
1:06 PM
@halfer Feel free to report users, but I wouldn't mention that in here. Comes too close to targeting
 
1:24 PM
@Machavity Fair enough, no worries - it was more to avoid duplicate flagging, since it was liable to be noticed by someone else
I'll avoid it in future though
 
2:10 PM
 
2:28 PM
@Zoe @SotiriosDelimanolis A question you deleted is being discussed on Meta
 
Zoe
never mind the never mind xd
 
@Machavity Oh I thought it would've been more controversial than that
 
Zoe
it was deleted after the post was closed. I know because I was the first to delvote, and I did it after seeing the post on meta xd
 
Wise person once said "You can lead a help vampire to a solution, but you can't force it to 'think'"
Be wise and disengage.
 
@JohnDvorak That's a fun api name.
 
2:52 PM
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis Just a heads up is all. Remember to read the Room disclaimer. Notices about Meta are not meant to indicate the quality of or an endorsement of Meta. Discontinue use if questions persist after 4 hours.
 
I don't understand that disclaimer.
 
Isn't that what's on the Min-Reprex label?
 
I didn't link to it because I thought it was a good post
 
@Machavity Maybe it's more precise to say that it was just an FYI. You don't comment on the quality of the posts.
 
3:03 PM
Oh was that post discussed here?
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis It's not in the graveyard at any rate
 
3:36 PM
Is this off-topic? How to create a hotkey for running command in background instead of foreground in win10? It doesn't look programming-related to me but, maybe, I don't understand something.
 
@Georgy it is borderline. I think the Windows Installer API has features to solve that, and that makes it a programming problem. But you might easy run into a smart solution to this problem on Super User.
 
@rene Oh, ok, thanks. I guess I'll continue not flagging/voting on similar questions.
 
I... don't know what to make of this. It's probably in a phase where it's best to walk away and leave it be. :(
 
@E_net4likeswaffles Hmm.. what to make of the approved edit.
 
"Removing the statement "Please don't downvote my humor sense of humor" will make the answer offensive for readers." eff em ell
"Please don't downvote" is offensive.
 
@E_net4likeswaffles `preview.redd.it/…
 
@E_net4likeswaffles So, what's going on? Is that fact that it's not really an answer (as in the comment to it) part of the 'sense of humour'? But the real joke is that it has a score of +23.
 
4:22 PM
@AdrianMole I don't know, and that is also surprising.
 
Bizarre!
 
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
6:41 PM
:49388154 Schh.. :) have some øl..
 
@Scratte Beer-Free Friday! I knew that answer was destined for deletion, but I thought I should replace the naughty word, anyway.
 
@AdrianMole I missed a naughty word..
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter If you start a message in here with "sd" (or "SD") it is interpreted as a command to Smoke Detector. If you just mean to refer to one of the reports, use "Smokey," or some such.
 
@AdrianMole Ah, thank you. I was wondering why all that stuff got posted back to me
 
You gave it five commands.
 
6:48 PM
Sometimes one goes from "vewy quiet" to very noticeable in a split second :)
 
@Scratte Yes. But I don't think it was meant in an offensive sense: "This looks like high-level sh*t..." (or some such). So I polished that turd into some "stuff," then flagged as NAA. And then Big Bhargav deleted it.
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter There's a list of SmokeDetector commands. Specifically, the syntax that your chat message complied with is explained in the Shortcut commands section.
 
@Makyen Thank you, but seeing as I'm not a privileged user", the syntax won't have much applicability just now
I think
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter But, you may decide that you want to be a privileged user. Thus, it might be in your future.
 
@Makyen: Perhaps, but I don't want to get burned
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter It's usually just a light char. We don't, generally, go beyond that. :)
 
@Makyen well, thank god for that
 
7:37 PM
@halfer I'd be willing to count digital circuitry as a form of programming. Scratch is on-topic here, and so is VHDL.
still too broad though
 
@JohnDvorak Fair enough, I'll have a think about that. I see it pretty rarely, thankfully.
 
 
10:06 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
11:30 PM
Ladies and gentlemen. Let me introduce you... The weekend.
 
11:53 PM
@Dharman You get weekends? Or you get to delete more stuff?
 
@Scratte I get weekends. I am human.
 
@Dharman That's what everyone says.. but how do I really know? :)
 

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