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2 hours later…
1:48 AM
I see UUSR script hasn't been updated for locked posts yet.
Neither was CV generator
@Makyen Is there any way to trick the USUR script to stop ignoring my request? Right now it looks like it was already handled.
 
2:31 AM
@Dharman Does any type of lock other than the comment lock still allow posts to be close-voted/delete-voted?
 
I think this is the first time I've seen my own name in an audit. I remembered it got closed, so my immediate reaction was to open the post to check the timeline. Then I noticed it was an audit.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:35 AM
Is this NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/20462038 I hesitate because there's an old NAA-type comment, and yet the answer lives...it's also accepted with a score of 11, but it's really just "here's the name of the permission and a bunch of links to answer the rest of the question". It does have a tiny sliver of content (the permission name) that addresses (a small part of) the question.
IMHO, stackoverflow.com/a/15980900/208273 is the actual answer, the answer I linked above is NAA, and the question it's on is a dupe of this one.
 
@RyanM The question may be a duplicate.
 
but not confident in that and it's a bunch of actions I'd take (this came up when someone asked the same question today and I had to shovel through all this to find a suitable dupe...and now I want to clean it up)
 
That's why I used "may".
You need to read both (treeth?) questions and evaluate.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:55 AM
@gnat Another time, please explicitly state what you want done. I've assumed that this is effectively a cv-pls for each of those 5 questions.
 
@Makyen I suspect he wants one of us slacker moderators to finally get around to handling his flag on it? :-p
Don't think they're sockpuppets, BTW. Looks like it's a Google interview or code challenge question. If more of these pop up in the near future, I'd recommend handling as you normally would for a low-quality question. (Although raising a mod flag is fine, if you want us to investigate deeper.)
@RyanM It is NAA, but this is one of those situations where you have to ask yourself what is best for the site. For very old answers like that, which have obviously been helpful to viewers, is it making the Internet a better place for a moderator to delete it? I'm not convinced. If it's a duplicate, closing it as such is really the best course of action. Alternatively, it looks far too broad and should probably be closed as that if not a duplicate.
 
6:17 AM
I'm curious.. can someone tell me the amount of close votes on my request here?
 
@Scratte Two votes. It went through the close vote review queue, but was dequeued 6 hours ago after having received 0 reviews.
 
@CodyGray Ok. Thanks :) It's probably too much work.
 
Too much work to...?
 
go through to properly evaluate.
 
You mean, reading the question might be too much work?
 
6:22 AM
@CodyGray Yes. It takes a while with this one. It took me almost 20 min the first time.
 
Wow.
 
@Makyen thank you! While I have your attention, mind taking a look at these reeposted homework dumps (second time as an image): How do solve the qes because so hard? and question How do solve the qes because so harddd? They've got funny (and totally irrelevant) tags: and . I expected asking rate limit system to throttle reasking like that but looks like something didn't let it do the job here
 
@CodyGray ^^^ sorry this was to you not to Makyen
 
6:38 AM
@gnat you better (also?) flag for a mod.
 
@gnat Rate limiting system doesn't really do anything about that. The account did get question-banned, though, as a result of what happened to those two questions. I've now deleted them and reached out to the user.
As @rene said, mod flags are the best way to bring situations like this to our attention. Our response time may not be on par with what you'd expect when having a heart attack, but the job does eventually get done.
 
We get to your heart attack in 6 to 8 weeks ...
Might give you an heart attack
 
@gnat Asking a moderator about an additional flaggable issue like this is one of the things we're intending to prevent by having rule #18. That a moderator has chosen to respond about one issue doesn't permit bringing up additional flaggable issues. Please don't do that.
 
Agreed and underscored. As always, please do not interpret my indulging a single situation as setting a precedent.
 
@CodyGray all excellent points as usual. I think duplicate is the right answer here, with a better title for the dupe target.
@Scratte can confirm, I don't know who the first close voter was, but it took me so long to confirm the lack of MCVE that I actually commented on that fact in chat at the time
it's a thorny threading issue where the OP provided a bunch of code, but not the right code (despite guidance from Scratte and others)
 
6:53 AM
@RyanM It's not just me, that's slow :D Funny, it's closed now for another reason though.
 
also a fair close reason.
 
Obviously it's not the right code, that's why they asked a question about it! :-p
 
Touché.
 
@CodyGray That's just silly :) They could have included some other not right code, that would have been ripe for debugging.
Which is my favorite hobby..
 
I do enjoy weird Java threading issues... but I really do need the right parts of the code :-p sadly there are rarely such issues here in answerable form
 
6:59 AM
@CodyGray at Stack Overflow rate limit kicks in immediately. That made me wonder how come that user was allowed to reask an hour after their first question was closed. I checked that they have got no upvotes. Only thing that comes to mind, maybe they've got no downvotes either and system ignored the closure, hard to tell. Announcement says only downvotes matter, "If your first question is downvoted... you'll be forced to wait at least a day."
 
Quick, someone have a problem where they're getting weird nonsense values when setting a non-volatile long. I can solve that!
 
@RyanM So, you secretly also have a good guess to a solution for this one? :)
 
@Makyen ^^^ my reasoning for asking was not about it being flaggable but that rolling rate limit system seemed to fail in this case, see above. "how come that user was allowed to reask an hour after their first question was closed..."
 
@RyanM Please, please, please tell me that the "solution" does not involve declaring the variable as "volatile"... This is not how you fix threading issues...
 
@CodyGray I mean it depends what you're doing with them :D if you're just writing from one thread and reading from another, volatile is fine. If you have multiple threads doing read+update, then yeah, AtomicFoo all the way.
 
7:04 AM
@CodyGray Someone did suggest volatile in the particular Question. But it's different from the long tearing issue discussion we had in the Ministry :)
 
@gnat I admit to not being at all familiar with the implementation of the rate-limiting system on SO. I haven't even memorized all of Shog9's Meta answers. I suspect that the second question was asked before the first question got downvoted, but I really don't know. If you want something like that analyzed, you need to go to Meta.
 
@RyanM AtomicFoo is not going to do it for this one :)
 
By the way, I just noticed that the timeline view now has the applicable license displayed for the initial posting event. Is that brand-new, or does it just show that I almost never use the timeline view?
 
@CodyGray yeah, it was announced the other day, look back for a Feed announcement here IIRC
 
7:09 AM
@RyanM It does depend on what you're doing with them. Unless Java guarantees some unusual semantics for "volatile", there is one and only one proper use for "volatile" variables: when you're doing memory-mapped I/O. Volatile has nothing to do with threads. It doesn't provide the acquire-and-release semantics that you need. (You often get away with it, since x86 gives you acquire/release semantics for most loads and stores for free, but it's still wrong and can explode in terrible ways.)
 
@Scratte well, the non-volatile state is extremely suspicious, that could be doing basically anything, but it probably isn't doing anything too weird...my guess is this stuff isn't running on the threads they think it is, and possibly in parallel with itself.
 
@RyanM They didn't say how it was run, so.. that's a secret yet :)
 
@CodyGray I've had this exact discussion with my BF, amusingly...I'm assuming you're thinking of the meaning in C/C++, which is...yeah, exactly what you describe. Java in fact does have some quite strong semantics around volatile, the relevant ones here being that a) writes to volatile variables are atomic (you can't observe a partial write) and b) any write to a volatile variable is visible to any subsequent (in time) read of that same volatile variable
 
@CodyGray Speaking of x86 giving acquire/release semantics for free, I assume this is what you actually are relying on, since the theoretical problem only affects a long. And I further presume that a long is 64-bit, and it is only a problem when running on a 32-bit JVM, which may read/modify/write 64-bit values as two 32-bit halves.
 
@CodyGray When those semantics aren't needed, "we" go with volatile to get visibility.
 
7:14 AM
@Scratte Visibility of what? If those semantics aren't needed, then you don't need volatile...
 
The Java memory model is almost entirely based on a partial ordering known as happens-before. It fits into 8(?) rules on a single page, which is great...there's a book that I have that would be worth the purchase price if it were literally that one page.
 
@CodyGray Yes, I do. Because if the variable isn't volatile, other threads may never see updates to it. So if it's used as a say flag-to-quit, volatile is necessary.
 
@RyanM I wonder how similar it is to the C# treatment of volatile. I at least know a little bit about that. I try to avoid touching Java.
@Scratte Even assuming Java's strong semantic guarantees for volatile, it's still living very dangerously. Trying to read and write the same value on two different threads without putting a lock in place is like trying to jump out of a plane without a parachute.
Locks guarantee consistency and coherency, and the number of situations where a lock is too slow are...very small. Almost as small as the possibility that you're going to get the code correct without a thorough understanding of the memory model.
 
logicbig.com/tutorials/core-java-tutorial/java-multi-threading/… has most of the happens-before rules...they leave out the rules around finalizers and interrupts, and fail to mention that the "Thread join rule" also applies to Thread.isAlive() returning false.
 
@CodyGray What you describe to me sounds like a race condition, which isn't the same situation as a flag-to-quit marker.
 
7:19 AM
Tried to Google up the Java volatile model. Found this Q&A, where I see Peter Cordes reassuring me that "Java volatile is like C++ atomic".
 
Wait, are you saying not all my data structures need to be lock-free by default?
 
@rene Unsurprisingly, there's a flow chart for that.
 
That chart locks me up.
 
It's been a looooong time (about a decade now, actually...) since I've touched C#. I'm told the .NET ecosystem has come a long way since then....
 
@RyanM it has. But whether it's good or bad is not straight forward.
It's a winding path.
 
7:22 AM
My reaction was basically "wow they fixed so many issues with Java but oh boy I miss the Java collections library" at the time
 
@RyanM Oh, me too. My SO answer history chronicles when I last touched C#. It was back when everyone was programming in WinForms. Once I discovered that there are languages that don't impose a massive run-time penalty, I was all in for that.
Although, generics had been introduced to .NET when I was last using it. So it had the collections stuff.
I wonder why the Java folks misspelled "atomic" as "volatile". Introducing gratuitous semantic differences to semantically similar code is quite annoying.
Also, looks like RMW operations are not atomic in Java, even if the associated variable is marked volatile.
Which makes sense, because there's no lock.
I guess that's why you were all saying it's OK to use volatile when reading on one thread and writing on the other.
I can't remember the last time I wrote code that did that... Seems like a hacky way to implement interthread communication anyway.
 
@CodyGray That is true. They're not. Unless asked for. There are atomicFoo classes for that.
 
So, volatile has the same semantics as atomic, but then there is also atomic. Sounds super nice....
Almost as enticing as Stop The World garbage collection.
 
@CodyGray I can tell you're super happy about Java in all it's glory
 
I'm still waiting for it to load...
 
7:31 AM
@CodyGray I asked Shog to clarify if closures feed into rolling rate limits or not
 
Somewhat different - volatile is a keyword. You can mark something as being volatile without changing its type. You also have things like AtomicInteger which is an entirely different type. So...it's a bit of a hodge podge.
 
@VLAZ In my universe, annotations on an object can and do change its type. A const-qualified object is, for example, of an entirely different type than a non-const object.
 
Good thing I work on phones that are checks notes waaaaaay slower than desktop machines running HotSpot
 
@gnat Banking on him having a photographic memory? I was thinking more to ask a new question, not a follow-up comment.
 
some of them don't even have out-of-order execution!
Should advertise them as Spectre/Meltdown-proof...
 
7:34 AM
@RyanM Better not bank on that. ARM architectures are getting OOO now.
 
Oh the nice phones have it already (and have for years, on the big cores), but we target all phones :-p
 
@CodyGray you're honestly not wrong. At a very basic level even private int foo and public int foo will behave and would be handled differently. But my point about AtomicInteger is that you now have a completely new API for how to use it. You can't just do i++, you do i.getAndIncrement(). So the keyword and the AtomicFoo classes will behave differently because they change how you consume a field.
 
@CodyGray I find that confusing. Why should an annotation change the type itself. An int is still an int, doesn't matter it it's a constant or a volatile.
 
@RyanM Reminds me of one of my favorite SO questions. I say "favorite" not because it is a good question for a Q&A site, but because I occasionally refer back to it to remind myself why I don't particularly want to be a Java or Android developer.
 
@VLAZ the worst part is you can't even do, say, a + b
 
7:36 AM
Man, sounds like the Atomic classes need some syntactic sugar!
If it were me, I would just overload the operator... :-)
 
Yeah. It's annoying since you cannot make an int an AtomicInteger and just leave it at that.
 
@CodyGray oh that poor soul...the Android garbage collector in 2010 was, uh, not good
 
Oh, it has gotten better?
 
it's much better as of the Lollipop (Android 5.0) release with ART (Android RunTime) to replace the old Dalvik VM
My current project is relying on this fact :-)
 
Ah, Google wrote their own runtime.
 
7:40 AM
March of 2010 was...oh my, Eclair. I've never developed for anything pre-Froyo.
 
I find that in the past Java had some sketchy stuff added just so you have it but later new improved alternative was added...but now you have both in the API for backwards compatibility. So, as time progresses, the language improves but also keeps around the crap from before. Which means finding the "proper" way to do something is obscured. How do you make a simple empty list Collections.EMPTY_LIST or Collections.emptyList()? You have both...
 
What is even the point, when you could just use a programming language that doesn't require you to throw garbage on the floor?
 
Entirely prevents certain classes of bugs, which is nice :-) also gets you a nice library of existing code and the rest of the JVM ecosystem
and it's not Objective-C, so that's a nice bonus ;-P
 
@VLAZ That's not really a problem though. The Date versus LocalDate seems to be more of an issue :)
 
@Scratte at least this is surely the last date/time API...because this one is actually usable
 
7:43 AM
@Scratte Any day I manage to avoid thinking about that, I consider a blessing.
 
@VLAZ so... you're not going to be happy if I mention there's also a sql.Date? :)
 
@Scratte thanks for breaking my multi-year streak of having forgotten that class existed. Its sole purpose in life is to make you accidentally import it instead of java.util.Date
 
I know about that. Anything to do with Date APIs in Java is a mess. The latest one is OK but it is marred by there being older implementations.
 
@RyanM I aim for high blood pressure ;) But funny. It only happen when you use an IDE and don't think, but just click ;)
 
@Scratte hey now you can't just stereotype Java/JVM programmers like that...I'll have you know some of us use keyboard shortcuts for that
 
7:49 AM
..like a read in a comment on a post on meta: But.. that I'd have to move my hand away from the mouse.
 
But now I'm doing Kotlin dev which doesn't have any native date/time library...yaaaaay.
 
It translates to bytecode for a JVM, right? I've never looked into it.
 
or JavaScript, or LLVM bytecode -> native code
but...mostly JVM bytecode, yes
the others are far less mature
 
@CodyGray this is just a preliminary research before asking, so that in case if he remembers I won't have to guess whether to post a bug report, feature request or support question (on a related note, I once managed to help ex colleagues when they asked me about a feature I developed few years before I left a company, just happened to accidentally recall details)
 
@RyanM Oh.. so it's becoming a "one language fits all" kind of thing. Seems a bit like it's aiming too high..
 
8:07 AM
@Scratte but if anyone can pull it off, JetBrains seems well-positioned to do so
 
9:03 AM
@gnat OK. I may have been a bit off in my interpretation of what you were asking. My interpretation of what you wrote was that you were asking CodyGray to do some mod-work, in addition to what was already done. Frankly, even reading it again, I still primarily read it that way, rather than as looking for an explanation of how rate limiting works.
I accept that your intent was a question about how rate limiting didn't work in that instance, but that's not what's communicated to me. I read it as "please go take a look at (and appropriately handle) these two poor questions", with some extraneous description and explanation why they need to be handled. My interpretation could just be biased, but what you're really intending to ask could also be more clear.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:45 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
11:53 AM
 
12:17 PM
@RiggsFolly Your query was better than mine. I only didn't use that because you did :)
 
12:27 PM
 
if a post a comment in a question and OP replies directly below, without pinging me, do I get a notification?
 
@double-beep Yes. You have become "involved" in the thread of comments. But if they reply to an answer you won't get notified
 
@Machavity I wasn't notified for this comment though.
 
Maybe there was a different comment between you and OPs but was deleted?
 
@double-beep Strange. I've always gotten notices for new comments in the same post
 
12:34 PM
@double-beep If I remember correctly, it only works if you're the only commenter besides OP. In this case the first comment is from neither you, nor OP.
 
@Scratte Really depends upon what the OP actually wanted, was not totally clear as seen by both of us being fairly sure we were doing what was asked for :)
 
@RiggsFolly Yes, I did mention the confusion on the Question. Not sure if I came across a bit dismissive though. I hadn't noticed your post reappearing. The UI is quick to show deleted things, but one (at least <10K) has to reload to see posts reappear. Which is why I mentioned it here.
 
@double-beep Unless explicit reply, it's a coin toss that you get a notification when OP comments and you were part of the comments.
 
@Scratte Dont sweat it, I didnt take any offence
 
12:43 PM
@RiggsFolly Let me know if you want me to remove the comment on your post:)
 
12:56 PM
@Scratte Not for me, its was a valid comment, specially as after rereading the Q a few times I had to agree with it :)
 
1:28 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels if you get a chance, please review stackoverflow.com/questions/61798095/… as another generic NPE
 
1:42 PM
Morning
 
High Tea Time
 
2:19 PM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Oh my, I might wait a day or two for that one.
 
3:43 PM
Should this be closed? Answers with alternative solutions that do not attempt to explain the problem are incoming.
 
@mkrieger1 it looks under specified so closing for adding details seems warranted
 
 
4:52 PM
Am I remembering correctly that a diamond moderator can go back and reject an approved edit as long as no other edits have been done to a post?
 
@BSMP IIRC, yes
 
@NathanOliver Thanks. I recently had to flag an edit that added noise to a question but wasn't sure if I should go ahead and fix it in the meantime. I'll leave it alone for now.
 
@BSMP Mods or the OP
 
 
1 hour later…
6:10 PM
I think it's not a good idea to browse the home page for Questions. All I do there is ask questions about the Questions in comments..
 
6:30 PM
 
6:50 PM
@Scratte Yeah I just have a filter for all tags I'm interested in, and an extensive list of tags that I don't know anything about that appear alongside those tags ignored
 
@RyanM huh? You mean you have lots of unwatched tags on your list on the home page?
 
Happy Friday morning everyone =} /o
 
@Scratte yep, SO is basically like "you want a list of mostly Python questions because you answered one a long time ago and got a bunch of upvotes, right?"
@tink How are the stock markets doing this Friday morning? I could use some good predictions for day trading
 
LOL ... I wouldn't know. @RyanM
 
6:55 PM
@RyanM Wait.. this is the second time someone has indicated that posing about python gets the imaginary swag faster.
 
@Scratte Yeah, you can get serious rep, just do it in 2010 and you're set
one of my friends has 25k+ that way for asking something to the effect of "how to add a value to a map in python"
 
But my home page has: flutter, kendo-grid & telerik-mvc, visual-studio-code & notepad++, ..and all sorts of other stuff that I can assure, I've never ever posted about.
@RyanM Ohh.. well. Too late for that then :) I don't have time to invent a time-machine.
 
 
1 hour later…
M--
8:11 PM
Not asking for cv-pls since this is an old thread... Is this asking for off-site resources? stackoverflow.com/questions/9403699/…
 
@M-- I don't think so. It just wants to know if there is a way to do it. There is :)
 
M--
@Scratte LOL. Is there a library/way/site to do this? There is. What is this question? Request for off-site resources. Silly of me asking even :D
 
@M-- Heh.. I did see the "tool", but I figured it could be edited out. Then I figured it could also be edited to "How can this be done" :) I guess I'm a glass half full kind of person :D
 
@Scratte I would agree with @M-- The phrase, "way, tool, etc" is the give-away.
 
@AdrianMole That's just a word :) I don't take it literally. If I ask: Is there a way to run my selectclasses with junit5, it's not asking for an off-site resource, is it? :)
 
8:25 PM
@Scratte Semantics, I guess. Maybe an edit to, "How can I do this?" would fix things.
 
"Is there a way, tool, etc. using Google Maps to get an overlay..." can easily be edited to "Is there a way, using Google Maps, to get an overlay..."
 
M--
Words are getting twisted here.
 
@M-- How is that? There's no crime editing out a word or two.. The point is that I don't think they care to be given the tools. They just wanted a way to do it.
 
M--
@Scratte I wasn't seriously accusing you of playing with words. That was a joke
 
@M-- No worries :) I'll defend my twisting to the end of the internet anyway :D
 
8:32 PM
^ same as other one.
 
M--
But about your point. I can agree to some degree with you. It depends on the question. If it's a broad question, asking if there's a way to get points with similar travel time, then it's broad and off-site request. If it's asking Is there a library or function to capitalize every letter of a character string in Python (not a quality question) but it can be edited to how to do this in Python and is on topic.
 
@M-- I agree that it's.. a little broad :), but seeing how old it is, I'm sure it was on-topic at that time. It's also bookmarked by 23 users and have 41k views. I don't think closing it would be a crime at all. But deleting it would.
 
M--
@Scratte Not planing for deleting :D
 
@M-- Interestingly, the Google Maps Q under discussion just popped up for me in the CV queue; is that where you came across it?
... I skipped it.
 
M--
Nope. I am watching travel-time tag. :D Probably I pushed it to that queue
 
8:48 PM
@M-- Then it's as I have long suspected: the CV queue isn't really a queue; more of a LIFO?
 
@AdrianMole Does that make sense? Or is the idea that the ones that's been there the longest are not getting handled anyway? I think the word you're looking for is a stack :D
 
I've been pondering the mechanisms of the CV queue for some time. Maybe a meta post?
FIFO, LIFO, FILO, LILO - whatever.
 
@AdrianMole Electric shocks for repeat offenders plz
 
Not to be confused with FIDO. That's just a puppy.
 
@AdrianMole AFAIK, it's a combination of FIFO and activity so is something gets another close vote, it's more likely to be reviewed by others.
 
8:59 PM
@NathanOliver Would that be something like a std::dequeue? Maybe I'll post a question, and you can post an answer.
 
I'd say it more like a priority_queue where the priority is some combination of age and activity.
 
See! I knew you'd know.
 
:)
Programming challenge of the day: Implement a Queue using a Stack
 
just one stack?
 
Easy! Using this stack just raise a custom flag and ... wait!
 
9:20 PM
I'd love for that Google Maps question to find a home somewhere in the SE network, as I learned some cool new things from it...but it's not really a programming question...
 
10:01 PM
@AndrasDeak Following the reduction in required CVs, I think this room is taking slightly older questions - maybe a couple of months? I don't know if a figure has been put on it. So 24d is fine, IMO.
 
Good to know, thanks
@halfer and now a moderator answered that! Call the police! Oh wait...
 
@AndrasDeak Rained on you guys' parade. Hope you don't mind. :-)
 
Of course not >:(
 
"Zombie burninated tag" got my attention.
 
at least that ghastly is gone
 
10:08 PM
From there, I'm a sucker for anything that can be salvaged, instead of obliterated.
 
if it resurrects another time I'll ask for a blacklist
 
Meh, there are so many good puns with [guide].
Blacklisting seems counter-productive. :-)
Plus, we'll have to go find someone who knows how to blacklist tags. I don't know who that person is anymore.
 
meta will have to make do with something else :P
@CodyGray I thought mods could do that, ugh
 
Nope. Blacklisting a tag needs a CM. Used to be Shog9.
 
our shog :'(
 
10:10 PM
If mods could do it, it wouldn't be so rare...
 
I didn't know it was rare. Never looked. And honestly that bad tags sound rare.
I'll just ping the CEO on his latest meta post
 
Why not Twitter?
You want your message to be seen, right?
 
I'm on MSE...
 
IIRC someone mentioned on some meta post somewhere that it requires a code change to blacklist
 
10:42 PM
 
11:08 PM
That's quite a few vandalism rollbacks on Smokey's last report.
 
@Machavity Not entirely sure that question is off-topic. Note that it's asking about programming a Cortex M3 microcontroller. Could be clearer, and might need to be closed for lack of details/clarity.
 
It's weird having Cody lurk again. I see a CV is already closed and deleted and I was doing a double take
 
It gets worse: nitpicks!
 
Ooh, I like those
 
lol fair enough
@CodyGray Yeah, I could see Needs Less Broad. Or whatever it is nowadays
 
11:15 PM
I've almost entirely stopped using the "too broad" reason, with the new description.
 
We've resisted renaming the room from SO Close Vote Reviewers to SO Needs Improvement Reviewers
 
@CodyGray mission accomplished
 
I'm not even sure that question needs to be closed. I completely understand what is being asked, and it's even an interesting question. Kind of straddles the domain between programming and system administration, but I do think it is within the job description of programming.
 
With a little more work they'll be able to stop you from using any of the close reasons. Plot twist: jump straight to deletion.
 
Right. I mean, I just use "unclear" now for everything.
 
11:21 PM
blast from the past
 
Like the old "not a real question" reason?
 
@CodyGray I wish I had been here when "lacks minimal understanding" was a thing
 
That's the one close reason that I agree was a mistake and deserved to be removed.
Although I understand the appeal, it's really a downvote reason, not a close reason. What it was trying to capture is basically what "too broad" should be (used to be) capturing.
 
We could use a welcoming version. A lot.
Yeah, "OP needs a tutorial" is lumped with too broad now
 
There is a gap though. Sometimes the question is so obviously lacking minimal understanding that no other reason fits or all other reasons fit.
 
11:24 PM
As it should be. We only care if the OP needs a tutorial if the question cannot reasonably be answered in our Q&A format. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how clueless the OP is. Their question and our answer could still be useful to others.
 
@Dharman if it's "not even wrong" perhaps one can write a custom reason
 
Don't forget, if it's "not even wrong", one can also write an answer explaining the misconceptions.
Unless it's too broad to be reasonably answered, in which case, it's, um, too broad.
 
I can ask a question: "Is C++ a programming language?" Is it on-topic? Yes. Is it clear? Yes. Does it need more focus? No.
 
@Dharman someone would point out that the C++ standard doesn't say so, after which it would go HNQ
 
That question is "not suitable for this site". It's not a practical programing problem.
You need to have a specific, practical problem that can be answered.
@AndrasDeak Snark appreciated, but the title of the ISO C++ specification is "Programming Language C++", so I guess no HNQ after all.
 
11:28 PM
 
11:44 PM
 
@AndrasDeak Check the title of this Draft C++ Standard.
 
@AdrianMole well it's a draft, that might mean anything
Plus it might just be the case that someone triggered undefined behaviour and their compiler changed the standard's title
 
Yeah. It's my current 'working link' to quote from. I think I need an update.
Just noticed I'd been ninja'd ... I'm only half here at the moment.
 
Here's an example. Something which in my opinion needs "Lacks minimal understanding" close reason: stackoverflow.com/q/41435910/1839439
 
"Note: this is an early draft. It’s known to be incomplet and incorrekt, and it has lots of bad formatting." This is cute. If I didn't already, this would be enough to love C++.
 
11:59 PM
note also the terrible kerning and stuff at the end
 

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