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1:47 AM
@AndrasDeak thanks, glad you like it
with so much going on it's hard to keep up, so I made it
 
 
2 hours later…
3:47 AM
@RyanM That's what the question says, kind of.. :)
 
4:41 AM
@user12986714 if it was just reported by Smoke Detector; why post it a second time?
 
5:25 AM
@tripleee socvr.org/faq#GEfM-limit-your-requests "Evaluating such questions and determining if a cv-pls is appropriate is considered a service that is beneficial to the room."
I assume the same applies to flagged answers
although maybe debatable when the report reason is "manually flagged answer"
 
an SD report is already a flag request and should suffice IMHO; the text you quote is a fallback for evaluating whether a close vote would be more appropriate if you conclude that the post is not spam or otherwise red-flaggable
 
Is this answer NAA?
 
reasonable point. I defer to the ROs on the exact interpretation. I've certainly pointed them out as a "hey this is in fact spam in case you're feeling too lazy to click through SD false positives"
 
5:50 AM
it would be more useful in that case to provide feedback to Smokey directly; the bot accepts a number of feedback commands -- see charcoal-se.org/smokey/Commands, or in a newbie-friendlier context charcoal-se.org/training
though you will need to be approved for SmokeDetector privileges in this room by a room owner, and have a metasmoke account
 
@tripleee What happens if the feedback is wrong? Can it be fixed later?
 
@Scratte yes, you can go back and change your feedback in metasmoke at any time
occasionally Charcoal admins will manually remove feedback which is thought to have been erroneous based on additional evidence
like the first few messages from a new spammer tend to get the benefit of the doubt, but if they continue we will go back and mark all of the earlier messages as spam, too
 
I have an MS account and occasionally click the feedback buttons. Less noisy than posting in here
 
@tripleee OK. I was more concerned with the opposite event. Content is marked as spam, but it isn't
 
yeah, but if you want to communicate a particular verdict to room members, providing explicit feedback here does both
 
5:57 AM
true...
 
@Scratte we seek to have consensus over time on all posts, and try to get back in touch with flaggers whose verdicts disagree, if we can find them
we generally require at least two feedbacks on each post, though there is a large and sometimes growing backlog of posts in metasmoke which don't yet have enough
of course, sometimes the feedback we disagree with will be months or years old, and the user may not be active any longer; or they don't participate in chat at all
but on the whole we usually converge quickly on a verdict
 
@tripleee Thanks :) I guess you're always looking for more people then.
 
sure, we always welcome new volunteers!
though everyone has limited bandwidth; prioritizing Stack Overflow rather than getting involved in spam predominantly on other sites in the network might be a concern
 
@tripleee but getting involved on other sites requires accounts on those sites :) Not everyone likes to have those other accounts.
 
6:15 AM
while we're on the topic, the getting involved page implies that I need to ping people to be approved to give feedback, but the feedback buttons in the web UI seem to work without me ever having done that...
 
@RyanM As tripleee said, in general, feedback to SD is the preferred way to indicate something is spam. Many of the people looking at SmokeDetector reports will also be running the AIM userscript which shows feedback for each SD report inline in chat. FIRE is also a popular userscript which allows reviewing the post, giving feedback and flagging all from within a popup that's opened when a button added to the SmokeDetector report is clicked.
 
@RyanM if you want to be able to issue commands to the bot from here, that requires room owner approval
 
@RyanM There are a variety of different permissions/privileges. Giving feedback on metasmoke requires the "Reviewer" role on metasmoke, which you have.
 
merely replying f or k is probably exempt, though perhaps the documentation should be more explicit
 
6:18 AM
ah cool, so someone must've looked through new accounts or something and added the role
 
@RyanM Yeah, I may be the culprit there. I've gone through new accounts a few times and given permissions based on the user's demonstrated experience on Stack Exchange sites (e.g. there were multiple moderators which were missing permissions). I also watch for reports of new accounts being made and give at least the "Flagger" role if the user has associated a SE account and has even a moderate amount of rep.
 
Well if you were, thanks :-)
 
np. If you want to interact with SmokeDetector, then you really just need to ask. If you want that permission in Charcoal HQ, then I or tripleee can just give it to you. If you want to do interact with SmokeDetector here in SOCVR, we ROs generally look to get consensus from the ROs prior to approving it here, which sometimes takes a while, depending on who's active.
@RyanM The Reviewer role you already have on MS would permit you to use FIRE in any chat room in which it runs to give feedback, or any of the other userscripts which forward feedback to metasmoke.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:16 AM
are "roadmap"-type questions like "is X stable" off-topic? stackoverflow.com/questions/61745767/… and if so, what's the right close reason?
 
8:36 AM
@RyanM I put a "customer support" reason, with some hesitation
 
@tripleee I like your phrasing, I've joined that reason. It's better than anything I'd come up with.
 
9:17 AM
@RyanM also sigh at the highly-upvoted-but-wrong answers on the dupe target that make it annoying to refer people to that particular question...the right answer's there, but you've gotta scroll.
 
@Adriaan think you've got a stray v in your del-pls
 
@RyanM no I don't; it's deletevote. Same as cv-pls for closevote. The reason I don't do dv-pls is that it can be mistaken for downvote rather than delete vote.
 
@RyanM isn't this covered in the room rules, too?
 
the FAQ and request generator use del-pls, but the unhandled request script seems to search for all of (delete, dv, del, delv)
 
9:32 AM
@RyanM The FAQ shows both del-pls and delv-pls.
 
@Makyen well I'll be darned, it does. I stopped reading when I saw the first one. Whoops, my bad.
 
We only needed 3 delete votes to close a +10/-3 question. What was the vote threshold for more required delete votes?
 
@RyanM Yes, the URRS accommodates for humans being human. :) The Request Generator just picked the one that had the highest overall usage at the time I added that request type.
Historically, the tags which the URRS searches for are the tags that have been used the most. There have been some others, but the others have been only a few uses, or just mistakes.
 
I've always used delv-pls and have never been scolded for it by the ROs
 
@Adriaan Yeah I didn't mean to come off as scolding, apologies if I did, I just thought it was a typo
 
9:41 AM
No worries, no harm done
 
@Adriaan delv-pls is perfectly fine. As you've already said, the one we prefer not to see is dv-pls, but it does get used every once in a while.
 
I also got tripped up by the fact that the SO chat search index seems to take a few minutes to get messages added to it, and so the URRS didn't show the request. Also by trying to work quickly to get it in the two-minute edit window if it was a typo
 
@RyanM Yeah, the chat search indexing is ... a bit lacking.
 
(my kingdom for a five-minute edit window...)
 
An additional 3 minutes would certainly help.
 
9:45 AM
@Adriaan 20, assuming this is still accurate: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/50523/…
 
@RyanM ta; higher than I had expected
 
@JohnDvorak not really seeing how it's opinion based.
 
Not really seeing how it's answerable either
 
@Scratte is there a piece of documentation saying why people prefer that one?
 
other than "idk it's usually enough bits and it works faster on 32-bit systems and uses less memory"
which...okay, maybe that's an answer.
 
not a good one for sure
 
10:42 AM
@JohnDvorak No, but there's documentation saying that operations default to int :) So using a smaller type require a lot a casting
 
Sure, but that's begging the question.
 
I mean it is kind of path dependency
people write Java code with ints because the Java code they've worked with in the past used ints
 
@RyanM I use shorts. I cast a lot
 
It sounds like the question was answerable and you have answers
 
@Scratte Okay I'm curious: why?
We use floats a lot because memory and performance (ARM chips)
 
10:45 AM
@RyanM Don't want java to force my integers :D
 
@Dharman they're very wishy-washy, discussion-y answers, though...it's the sort of thing I'd put in a comment
 
okay... I can think of an objective reason that predates the language design... but I can't put it in an answer long enough to not feel bad about it.
 
..I'm putting in a comment :)
 
which is admittedly my cop-out for "I don't think this is a great question but I'm going to answer it anyway and you can't downvote me if it's a comment" (also doesn't block Roomba or deletion like answers do, as a good-citizen reason to do it)
@Scratte to...force them?
 
Most / lot of the computers that Java targeted were 32-bit, so a 4-byte number would use the native R/M size.
Which does raise the question - why were 32-bit architectures so popular back in the days :D
 
10:51 AM
@RyanM java wants my variables to be ints. It complains all the time :) It's like it's trying to use mental pressure to make me use ints. But I'm stubborn.
 
fun fact: writes to 32-bit fields are atomic in Java
this fact has almost no practical applications, but only almost none
 
Java's memory model looks rock-solid on the surface, but it's actually quite crap when you try to actually make use of it.
 
Gonna strongly disagree, I <3 the Java memory model, and it amazes me that it's even remotely efficient
 
in particular you can do some things with using volatile reads/writes to control visibility of other writes, and I'm really curious how that's done efficiently
 
10:54 AM
@RyanM Maybe there's an invisible default option like "-XX:runfast"
@RyanM I remember reading about that. I think the deal is that once one variable is volatile, they're all published at the same time.
 
@Scratte any writes to non-volatile variables before (in the same thread) a write to a volatile variable are visible to any thread that performs a subsequent read of that same volatile variable
is the exact rule. In practice, it may be stronger than that and they may all be published simultaneously, but you also can't assume the JIT won't reorder your code if you don't follow the rule exactly :-p
 
@RyanM All variables, or just the same class?
 
all variables
it's a partial ordering of events within the program (feel free to poke me in the Ministry if you want a longer tangent, I enjoy this rabbit hole more than I should...)
 
TBH I prefer the language stopping me from doing data races entirely.
 
11:10 AM
 
11:22 AM
 
12:07 PM
Morning
 
1:28 PM
@Makyen Please delete my request since the OP did not correctly copy its code.
 
@eyllanesc cc @Makyen Done
 
@NathanOliver thanks
 
1:43 PM
np
 
 
@Adriaan I can't tell. They say "check our logs" but then just post a link to a domain root. I don't want to visit the site. My guess is that it might actually be spam. I flagged for NAA though since it does seem like a "I'm having this problem too" post.
 
@Adriaan I flagged spam after I did visit the site ..
 
2:55 PM
I've finally found the first thing I don't like about the follow feature. It's too close to the close button and I accidentally clicked it which made me think I was crazy as all of the sudden i started to get a bunch of notifications about comments that weren't directed to me.
 
Isn't it the same distance as the rest of the commands?
 
So question: is this effectively a typo, or should it be reopened? (I can't post a request either way due to a conflict of interest, just asking for opinions on that point).
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica hmm, author just self-deleted
 
I would say that is not worth reopening even if it gets undeleted
there's also probably something that could serve as a duplicate target for that
e.g. "how to write a connection string for a database in c#" stackoverflow.com/questions/15631602/…
 
2:58 PM
Yeah, ironically they self-deleted because I answered in the comments (hence the reason I can't post a request on it).
The original reason I VTC no longer applied (since the OP added details). But yeah, it's probably a dupe. Still, the whole "yeah, that fixed it, let me delete the question" thing is at least mildly frustrating.
 
@NathanOliver those comments are just the voices in your head.
 
3:31 PM
 
3:46 PM
@rene I like the voice in Nathan's head that says "Buy halfer a bottle of whisky"
They are favouring the Yamazaki 18 at present, I believe.
 
I like it too, especially since I ignore it and buy it for myself.
 
Come on voices, you need try harder
Halfer is a bit parched
 
4:00 PM
Anyone around who remembers this self-styled software god from a few days back? They've given some feedback on the 'spam warning' comment I posted.
IIRC, we decided it was close to spam but not actually spam.
 
@AdrianMole we weren't sure
 
@AdrianMole The response makes some logical errors, but I think it is not spam either - there is enough meat in the answer for it to standalone. However, they do have a few links promoting their website, so it's not ideal.
 
4:18 PM
@halfer I guess you missed the previous discussion. They have 6 or so posts linking the same site.
 
@AdrianMole I'm almost about to comment on their comment
 
Same here - I was just going to note that I didn't actually spam flag any of their posts, but that there were some concerns expressed ... 'amongst the Community'. But please go ahead.
 
almost.. I need to gather a little list first. And I'm having my dinner :)
 
@Scratte Bon appetite! I just finished mine.
 
4:42 PM
@AdrianMole Done my snark for today I think :)
 
Pretty tame snark by local standards!
 
Sorry. There's a long way to the level of one of our cherished moderators :)
 
Yeah - The Bespectacled Snark-Meister is in a league of his own! ;)
 
5:02 PM
If someone tells me to "Stop being biased and discriminatory". Does that mean I am? :) And is it rude?
 
@AdrianMole Ah yes, I didn't see that convo here
I was too busy instructing the voices in Nathan's head
 
@AdrianMole There was also a meta post.
 
@Scratte I think I missed that Meta. Do you have a link handy, or remember a good search term?
 
@AdrianMole I don't think you're going to like it.. Is powersemantics.com spam?
 
Go for it!
@Scratte That's actually a pretty reasonable answer, IMHO. When we had the discussion in here, I came to much the same conclusions as Cody has. And I also had the initial "this is spam" opinion, that was later tweaked away.
 
5:17 PM
 
@AdrianMole I don't agree with that. I had the opposite reaction. I initially though it was so-so.. until I saw that it was absolutely everywhere. I do not understand it. We readily remove taglines. We also flag things that are free homemade libraries.
I don't see the difference between a linked library and a linked "manifesto"
 
It's certainly an 'edge-case'. I don't have the right to unilaterally decide on when self-promotion becomes over-promotion so, in such 'grey' (no pun intended) zones, I will take in the arguments from both sides of the divide. Here, it seems close to 50:50.
 
It's not really 50/50. It's in favor of the decision made as seen by the votes.
 
6:09 PM
@Scratte Part of me would like to 'invite' that user to visit the Meta post (see comments I made on the Q and A there). This would (IMHO) be better than just trying to engage in the comments you and I have made (on their post), and that he's replied to. However, someone with such a 'passion' for their project would likely be antagonized by much of what's written in the Meta (esp. if they're not used to Meta and its quirks).
Hmmm... I don't want to be provocative but, at the same time, I think they should have the right to know what's being said and done.
Another Dilemma!
 
@AdrianMole Moderators can do that.
 
@AdrianMole I doubt that would have be a good idea. Though it may end the issue.. fast.
 
@Braiam You're absolutely right, of course. But, if folks were talking about me or my posts on Meta, I'd certainly appreciate somebody letting me know!
@Scratte ^
... and the issue of acceleration also crossed my mind.
I'll dwell on it for a while.
 
@AdrianMole Just do your due diligence for a little while first :)
 
6:29 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
M--
7:55 PM
Anybody knows the latest update on FireAlarm? Has Bonfire been put out for good?
 
8:09 PM
@M-- NN did kinda hard quit. I wouldn't be surprised if he took his bots with him
 
M--
@Machavity I was afraid so. That's a loss.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:06 PM
Why are these 3 reported?
 
10:58 PM
I found an example of toxic behaviour on Stack Overflow. Finally.
Is it ok to ask here for expedited deletion if OP is being rude to me?
 
@Dharman All 3 of the same user's answers are virtually identical, linking the same site.
 
@Dharman I would just flag the comments as abusive and let them cool off for a bit.
 
@AdrianMole Yeah, it looks like NAA, but I went with spam eventually.
 
11:38 PM
@Dharman flag the comments, disengage. Content deletion depends only on content.
 
@AndrasDeak I will ask for deletion of it here regardless. I was just wondering if it still makes sense to wait 2 days.
 
M--
11:51 PM
@Dharman I think that's a case for flagging not deleting. And, seriously? You "finally" found an example of toxic behavior?!!
 
Comparing this to online gaming I think this community is extremely non-toxic. My bar is set low.
 

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