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12:12 AM
@CodyGray Caching, as usual :)
It appears to have resolved itself. I'm not able to duplicate the problem.
 
@Makyen I was wondering if it was a deeper problem, since I used to be logged in on this machine but somehow that session got cleared. Then, it was giving me an error when I tried to log in. As I mentioned, I can no longer reproduce, either (successfully logged in now.)
I suspected it was the SE API.
 
That's quite likely where it had a problem.
 
12:44 AM
 
@Dharman cc @infinite_scream
It definitely needs some formatting, I'm really not sure what to make of that
it seems like a plausible attempt at an answer that's probably not obfuscated malware...
 
@Dharman I'd say so, though I'm tempted to just edit it out...
Never sure what to do with easily-removable rudeness
 
@RyanM Then it will be code only answer.
 
@Dharman I mean it's already one, it just comes with a free insult :-p
I flagged as R/A
it's much worse than the "unacceptable behavior" examples at stackoverflow.com/conduct
and surely violates "No name-calling or personal attacks."
Smokey, you might need to work on your character counting there....
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I edited the title to be less off-topic. I think it's salvagable as a question, assuming it's not a dupe (I don't know the subject matter).
(if it's a dupe I'll happily toss a close vote at it)
 
@RyanM Still, the question was kind of begging for that low-quality answer that it got. It seems like it should be closed to prevent it from drawing even more bad answers.
Also, doesn't the edit kind of invalidate answers?
 
oh for sure it was begging for bad answers, but I think it's not with the edit. I think people just have an inclination to ask a "how do I ..." question as "Is it possible to ..."
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica well....not any good answers. Honestly "no it's not possible" is still just as responsive a (bad) answer to the question.
I answer "How do I..." with "You can't" frequently, but I actually fill out my answers with content when I do (example, somewhat)
 
Do you also have performance problems when opening "Your flagging history" page?
 
@Dharman as in https://stackoverflow.com/users/flag-summary/$yourUserId? Nope
seems perfectly smooth for me
 
1:14 AM
I think some userscript is hoggin the page from time to time. I can't pinpoint what it is.
 
@Dharman also FWIW the flag was marked helpful
 
@RyanM I think it's because 6 people in this room voted.
 
@Dharman I sometimes notice an unnaturally long time for my flag history page to load; maybe once every 4 or 5 visits, but I haven't found an obvious pattern.
 
I think it could be Advanced flagging.
 
Yep - I have that script ruining running.
 
1:20 AM
@RyanM I don't know if all of the flaggers were in this room, but there were at least a few R/A flags on it. It ended up at a score of -6 and deleted/locked as spam/R/A. That could be from 6 flaggers, or fewer flaggers, some down-votes and a moderator.
 
Maybe checking for those flagged by Natty.
 
2:12 AM
@RyanM It's a late answer that doesn't really add anything new over existing answers. But, it is an answer to the question, and just needed some formatting applied to it.
 
@CodyGray yeah, that was my theory, but as someone unfamiliar with the subject I wasn't 100% certain
 
@RyanM Easily removable rudeness should always be edited out. The question is, can you edit the post to remove the rudeness, turning it into a valid question/answer? If so, then do so. The red flag means that the post is irredeemably rude, either because there would be nothing left if you edited out the rudeness or what is left wouldn't be an answer.
@RyanM Yeah, I used to be a C# subject matter expert. Like another lifetime ago. Haven't touched it in years. But I remember enough to make the judgment there, at least.
 
@CodyGray Thanks, good to know. Should fixable rude posts be flagged at all, or only if we notice a pattern of the user doing it?
 
@RyanM I mean, your call. If it's a pattern, we do like to be made aware. A custom flag is best for that.
I just don't like seeing "rude" flags raised on posts where someone says, "This is so damn frustrating!" or "I'm so tired of this shit!" That needs to be edited, but not flagged.
But yeah, if you see someone writing that in all of their posts, a mod probably needs to have a talk with them about professional decorum.
 
Oh for sure, I'd never flag that, just edit it out. Do mods see posts as they were when they were flagged R/A?
 
2:17 AM
Haha. Nah. Not really.
We are all smart enough to know about edit histories, and sometimes we'll even check them against the flag timestamps, but... uh... not always? We handle a lot of flags, and we tend to forget this stuff. Fairly recently, a change was made to the mod flag dashboard that shows a little banner when a post has been edited since the flag was raised, but some of us (i.e., me) tend not to pay any attention to that.
Rude flags are taken pretty seriously, though, so we would definitely look at the edit history for those types of flags.
Where it can get you into trouble is when you raise a "NAA" flag, then someone comes along and turns it into an answer. (That can't happen with VLQ flags, because an edit will automatically validate and clear the flag.)
And by "trouble", I mean, "a declined flag". Which is pretty much the furthest thing from "trouble" imaginable.
 
Heh. Thanks for the enlightenment :-)
 
@RyanM Not sure if you're new to SOCVR (I don't recognize the name?), but in case you haven't heard, the scale of flags on SO is immense. We have around 20 moderators, with an average of > 2k flags per day.
 
Fairly new. And yeah I assumed y'all don't have a whole lot of time to inspect every flag in detail, which was what motivated that question :-)
 
Yeah, that, plus we all eagerly await the "Y U DECLINE MUH TOTALLY VALID FLAG?!" questions on Meta.
 
well to your collective credit, I think all of the declined flags I've gotten were correctly declined (there's one deleted one that I can't view and I don't remember what it was, but it was probably when I was trying to figure out the correct usage of the Very Low Quality flag)
 
2:28 AM
When you figure out the correct usage of the VLQ flag, please do let us all know.
 
hahaha. You've caught me, what I figured out was not to use it ;-)
 
I tell folks to interpret it as a "needs to be promptly deleted by a moderator" flag.
That interpretation makes the flag somewhat less useful than it could be, but there are a non-trivial number of posts that meet that definition.
And you'll almost never go wrong when flagging with such a restrictive definition.
 
What's an example that isn't either spam or R/A? I've heard "gibberish" but the Shog Post On What The Flags Mean says VLQ and R/A are interchangeable there. I've also heard non-English posts are VLQ, but usually those are closed quickly (doesn't need an SME to know it's wrong), plus it probably doesn't need to be promptly deleted by a moderator.
 
2:43 AM
perfect timing for my comment on gibberish...
 
2:56 AM
@KenWhite That's spam - it's basically a job offer.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica It's not advertising a product or service, and it's not some random noise. It doesn't meet the definition of spam, and I don't think the poster should bear the weight of a spam flag. It's an off-topic question.,
 
I'm on the fence about that particular post (because it looks like an innocent mistake), but the canonical word on job offers is meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/276249/are-job-offers-spam
I think what put me on the side of not flagging it was no off-site contact info: they weren't trying to get around SO's system
If you're feeling particularly generous to SE Inc's bottom line, you could redirect them to SO careers :-)
 
3:11 AM
@RyanM: I don't really see anything to be on the fence about here. It looks to me to be an innocent mistake by someone new to the site who is not familiar with the guidelines. I don't feel arbitrarily punishing them for that mistake with a spam flag is warranted. I don't think the poster is actually looking to hire someone, so I don't think SO careers is appropriate either.
 
 
1 hour later…
@RyanM That's a fair question. By my standards, posts that are not in English, posts that are blatantly off-topic (i.e., about gardening or cooking), posts that cannot be salvaged in any way via edits, and that sort of thing would all qualify for the VLQ flag. I handle the flags as such. But there isn't unanimous agreement among the moderator team about that, and so VLQ flags do get declined/validated differently depending on which mod handles them.
Anything that isn't abuse, but is, at the same time, completely unacceptable.
Where it gets tricky is when you start flagging questions as VLQ because they need to be closed, or when you start flagging answers as VLQ because they do not answer the question.
I've vacillated over the years on how exactly I think the system should be redesigned. I still think that VLQ on questions should be altogether eliminated, especially since questions are now easier to close (require fewer votes). I've argued before that VLQ on answers should be eliminated or that it should be merged with NAA. I've also proposed that both VLQ and NAA be replaced with a single "needs to be deleted" or "unsalvageable" flag, since that's how mods handle them.
 
5:01 AM
@CodyGray I have concerns about the bounty on this no effort / requirements dump question. I can't close it as Too Broad while there is a bounty. What is your personal position on this scenario. stackoverflow.com/q/61626730/2943403
 
@mickmackusa Yes, questions that have a bounty cannot be closed by normal users. It is generally accepted that these can be flagged for moderator attention, along with a justification of why you think it should be closed. The moderator can cancel the bounty, refunding it, and close the question. However, in this particular case, it is not obvious to me why that question needs to be closed. It looks like it describes the expected inputs and outputs. What essential information is it lacking?
We don't really have an "effort" requirement here. Rather, we have a clarity requirement. Often, explaining what you have tried before is necessary to clarify and constrain the question. But that does not appear to be a problem here: it seems pretty clear what is wanted, and it seems reasonably scoped.
 
I have commented to the OP that there are some missing input variables (they are only expressed as plain English) which leads me to believe that this is intended to be a bounty-for-codez question.
Okay, very well, Cody. Glad I didn't flag then.
So the downvote is my only defense against Help Vampirism. Box ticked then.
 
Hmm, yeah, I was just reading the comments. I wasn't aware we had any site policies about "bounty-for-codez" questions. I've surely asked some of them. They can be good quality questions.
I think you may be jumping unfairly to the conclusion that the person is a help vampire.
I'm not entirely sure, as the subject matter is quite outside of my expertise.
 
I am labeling the behavior, not the user.
 
No, I get that. I'm not complaining about your use of the label.
I'm just not sure you can justifiably reach that conclusion because someone presented their inputs, expected output, and asked how to get there from here.
Would it really improve the question to see a bunch of code snippets they've tried that didn't work?
If I/you/someone were to close the question, what would you need to see added in order to improve it to re-open it?
 
5:09 AM
Well, I have enough meta posts to know that opinions vary on that topic. My opinion is that if you post what you tried, then ALL answers can skip the explanation of the parts that the OP already knows. This lightens the load on volunteers and allows answers to be "smaller".
Also, when a coding attempt is provided, it becomes narrow enough to potentially close it using a pre-existing page.
 
@mickmackusa Not sure I follow the logic there. You can close something as a duplicate whether a previous failed effort is shown or not. The duplicate target would just be a question that shows how to solve the problem.
 
This is a favorable directional flow. Expect OPs to narrow their question as much as possible so that answers can be brief or possibly closed as dupes.
Broad question: How do I query database X for rows with Y. Narrow question with coding attempt: answers say's you have a typo in the function mysqli_ftch() -- not need for the page.
 
I don't altogether disagree with that. "Often, explaining what you have tried before is necessary to clarify and constrain the question. But that does not appear to be a problem here: it seems pretty clear what is wanted, and it seems reasonably scoped." My concern is, what specific information would you need to see edited into that question for it to be acceptable? How does it improve the site for people to dump a bunch of non-working code in their questions?
@mickmackusa Yes, that question is hopelessly broad because there a million ways to query a database, and the answer will be highly dependent on a bunch of individual circumstances, like your database, schema, etc.
Showing an attempt might help to narrow it down, because it might divulge which database you're using, what your schema is, etc.
 
The question is currently asking for a complete tutorial -- this is going to lead to longer-winded answers. Stack Exchange sites generally want to keep pages/answers short and snappy to benefit researchers with limited time.
 
But if that information was provided in pure form, I guess I'm just not convinced that including a bunch of wrong/not-working code is going to improve the question or the site at large.
@mickmackusa Is it actually asking for a tutorial? If it were, then this would definitely be too broad; no argument there. But I'm not seeing that it is asking for a tutorial. It seems like a reasonably-scoped, practical programming problem.
As I said, I could be misunderstanding the question. It may be broader than I think. I'm judging purely on form, because I don't know the domain.
 
5:15 AM
As an answerer, I prefer to see the broken code so that I can be supremely informative about where the OP has gone wrong and how to fix it.
for instance: joomla.stackexchange.com/q/27899/12352 Look how generous I can be when there is a coding attempt.
 
That's a different type of question. That is a "debug my code/query for me" question. "How do I...?" is an entirely different type of question.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:13 AM
@Dharman Yes. It's been like this for weeks. The flagging page sometimes take 5 seconds to load.
Is this NAA?
 
@Scratte Yes
 
@DavidW Thank you :) I wasn't sure if everyone else was seeing what I'm seeing.
 
7:37 AM
I flagged this for closure last night but its timeline is now showing that it was "Protected" by community. Any idea why?
It was a spam target, but the other post targeted by the same spammer wasn't protected, so it presumably isn't automatically because it had been spammed on.
 
@DavidBuck I think if there's two lots of spam on the same question it's automatically "protected by community". It's tangential to closure anyway - it doesn't stop it being closed, but it does stop very low-rep users posting on it
Although it looks like there's only one lot of spam and one NAA on that question, so maybe protection happens then too?
 
Not sure. Just curious as it certainly wasn't a 'highly active question'.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
9:18 AM
Protected is now known as "highly active question", thus resulting in the confusion.
 
9:34 AM
I thought you meant sweets, like muffins, or cookies or fruit-salads with flavoured cream on top.
 
9:57 AM
@Scratte Nom, sounds like a healthy breakfast
 
@halfer One can wish for things one don't do :) In this case it was morningdreaming and it made me very happy for a moment :)
 
jps
10:12 AM
@halfer Hi. Strange day today! I posted the usual comments regarding asap/urgent and how it is not appreciated here, and had (big surprise) 3 people today who reacted to this, deleted the urgent begging and said thanks for the hint.
 
@jps Great stuff. I do also occasionally have question authors who are surprised that volunteers don't like "urgent" and they agree to not add it again.
I sometimes wonder that some English speaking regions in the world just employ stock phrases because they are normal in their regionalisation of English. "Please help me", "Sirs", "This is urgent". Perhaps they have succeeded in using "magic words" in the past, and are not always intending to nag volunteers.
@Scratte Well I am about to have a late breakfast (11am), sadly I have no sweets or muffins. I think I have some chocolate cookies though, they'll do!
 
@halfer I'll make the coffee and some scrambled eggs.. give a cookie :)
 
jps
10:31 AM
@halfer it's quite seldom to get reactions on this, maybe it happened before but 3 on a day is a new record!I also thought about cultural differences, so maybe it's just acceptable and normal in some cultures. @Scratte: scrambled eggs and coffee sound good!
 
:-)
 
@jps there is hope for the World ...
 
@rene While we're on the positivity train, I've been getting a lot of appreciation for my copy-pasted advice comments as well. The collection of form comments continues to grow...
 
10:47 AM
@RyanM awesome!
 
@tripleee a good dupe for that is linked in the comments, I'm pretty sure they just forgot to add it to their PATH
errr, how do you even handle that... can't vote as dupe because it's a different user....
 
11:02 AM
I flagged for mod attention now
 
11:13 AM
It's a classic
 
11:31 AM
Someone ought to tell me to stop going full meta.
 
What's "full meta"?
 
"full mental"
 
May 20 '19 at 14:45, by E_net4
Cover me, I'm going full meta
 
11:45 AM
@rene I thought "full mental" was the norm for any technical person.
 
@Scratte not exactly true. Some haven't had coffee yet and thus only operate at limited capacity and need the kick of caffeine to reach their full potential.
 
that ^
 
So.. "full meta" is just not looking at SO.. but only meta.SO? Nothing wrong with that. There's everything that netflix can offer and more.
@VLAZ I've never been "full mental" then. Having had my coffee today before someone very politely gave me hints as to how an if-statement works.
 
lol! Good one.. :) I think just reading that entire thing is going to make my head explode. The first sentence is not for normal humans.
 
12:05 PM
I'm unsure of how the association bonus with multiple accounts work. Even if two accounts never interact, each account could potentially get the association bonus. Is there any policy on that?
 
Are you talking about somebody running two accounts and getting +100 one time on each?
 
if the account earned enough rep in isolation, what's the problem?
 
@tripleee The bonus is then per account pr site, not per user pr. site.
 
Yes, that was going to be my question. I can't think of anything inherently wrong with this. At most, it allows double voting through association bonus but that should be covered under voting fraud. Anything else that would make it undesirable to grant multiple association bonuses to the same person?
 
@VLAZ Yes. It's a thought experiment / asking for a friend / pick anything :)
A merge of the accounts would certainly remove the double bonus.
 
12:10 PM
Then I don't think there is a huge issue. AFAIK, multiple accounts are tolerated as long as you don't use them to bypass rules or otherwise game the system. The association bonus should fall under that same rule - don't abuse it.
 
There is nothing wrong with the double bonus. You're allowed to have multiple accounts, so that means you're allowed to get the bonus multiple times. As long as you don't use it for shenanigans, there is no issue.
 
Thanks for clearing that up :)
 
As for merging - I'd assume that merging accounts also leaves you with a single bonus. So, if you ran 10 accounts and merged them, you wouldn't get +1000 through bonuses.
 
@VLAZ Voting twice on the same post is not what I was thinking of.
No. I expect if there were two accounts, both with association bonus, then a merge would remove the 100 automatically.
 
Well, as long as it's not some sort of manipulation, then it should be OK, I guess. I just can't think of many things that the association bonus allows you to do. Comments and votes seem like the "exploitation points"
Also, yeah - that's what I meant. I don't know how merging works but I assume you'd only get a single association bonus after the merge.
 
12:18 PM
I just like playing with edge cases and what if-s. Like, the help page for merging says "I accidentally created two accounts; how do I merge them?".. that doesn't really cover intentionally creating two accounts. Making me wonder if a merge of two 10K accounts would even be done.
 
Sure, why not? Same rules apply. If they haven't voted for each others posts, I see no reason why Jon Skeet and Gordon Linoff couldn't be merged
 
I think that help page is not entirely correct. Or incomplete. It says that the merge process requires manual intervention, however, I think SE also does auto-merging of accounts. I remember some Meta (can't recall if SE or SO) question from a user. Turned out they changed their email to one associated with another account and both got merged.
Or something along those lines, at least, I might be missing some details.
@rene but then, they would be TOO POWERFUL! Nobody would be able to stop them.
 
@VLAZ merging is black magic.
 
Wait, so, how am I supposed to operate bots? Do I have to create throwaway email addresses for them?
 
TOO POWERFUL is not a rule
 
12:23 PM
@rene You've just put the idea into my head that.. I need gin.. and coffee..
 
Remember those words well when our new overlord JonLinoffTron takes over the world.
 
@JohnDvorak my socks all point to the same gmail address but made unique with the + option.
 
That works out, I guess. Some websites freak out when they see a +.
 
@VLAZ Wait.. the system automatically merged the accounts just because the user changed their email?!?.. That seems.. dangerous.
 
@JohnDvorak yep. Our company email system included, which I have fixed since.
 
12:26 PM
I had a funny thing with this recently. Signed up for an account using <myemail>+<service name>@gmail.com. The registration form accepted that. I went to the sign in form and entered the same thing but the validation complained that it wasn't a valid email. Yet it didn't actually block me - the validation was so badly done that it only showed UI errors. And validated wrongly. Anyway, I was able to just press "log in" despite the failed validation.
@Scratte I'll try to find the question. it was somewhat recent, I believe.
Found it so, the trigger seems to be same verified emails on both accounts.
 
@VLAZ But that means anyone that knows someone else's email could merge their account into their own.
 
@Scratte the emails need to be verified.
 
So.. if I don't like my coworker, but know their email.. and I know they have a normal verified account, I can just update my own profile with their email. Assuming my own account is older than theirs.
..of course I imagine the update of the email doesn't go through the verification process as well.
 
@Scratte then your coworker will get a message to verify the email. In which case, they can choose to ignore it or even bring it up to SE "Hey, that's not my account".
 
12:34 PM
@Scratte They have to have the email verified on their account, and you can't do that bit.
 
@VLAZ OK. So the verification is not once per email, but every time the email is changed. My blood pressure just went back to normal :)
 
Any system I've used that allows changing emails will then verify that change is correct. At the very least, the user might have mistyped the email.
 
1:10 PM
 
@Georgy There's at least 2 mod deleted answers giving the same thing
 
@E_net4thedownvoter you may want to equip yourself with a full meta jacket in that case
 
1:35 PM
@TylerH Good idea.
 
1:57 PM
If a student has a question that's obviously in their class materials (e.g. "my teacher said to use this function, what does it do?"), is that an okay question, or should it be closed?
 
@TigerhawkT3 if it is specific, objectively answerable by us, and not already asked before, then it's an on-topic question
However even after all this, if it's something that's easy to google or look up in their textbook, it's probably worth downvoting
 
Hmm. This was asking why using map like the teacher suggested has a different result from not using map and I could've sworn there was a "research effort" CV reason at some point. Is that not a thing anymore?
 
@TigerhawkT3 it's not automatically bad. We allow homework questions, as long as they aren't "do my homework for me". We also allow questions about "explain X to me" as long as they are well scoped. Some questions from students fall in the latter category and can be real good. For example "I was told to use X instead of Y - what is the difference".
Although, sometimes a student asks with the best of intentions and writes a question as clear as possible but turns out the teacher or the homework assignment is just wrong or unclear and we can't do much about it.
 
@TigerhawkT3 There hasn't been such a close reason for many years. You may be thinking of the old "lacks minimal understanding" reason
There is the typo/too localized reason: if a question is so focused to one person's scenario that it's highly unlikely to help anyone else, it can be closed for that reason
 
Would "what does map do" be a suitable dup for such a question, or would it really have to be "why does map do something different from not map"?
 
2:06 PM
@TigerhawkT3 I would say so probably
I haven't looked at the question though
and the only thing I know about Python is that indentation/spacing is part of the syntax, so I can't comment on the technical accuracy of such a dupe for map
 
👍
 
2:55 PM
Should we have a for questions such as these?
 
@halfer disagree
 
Lordy, I found someone prefixing their answers with "IIUC" - 672 so far!
 
@E_net4inafullmetajacket A simple delete request would suffice. Which it is now
 
@halfer 672 answers from the same user?
 
3:09 PM
@AdrianMole Yep :_o(
 
Wow!
 
I should write a little app to create a leaderboard - at the top we have one user with 1608 HTH, next we have 1162 cheers, 933 thanks, 882 apologies, 774 share/enjoy (etc). People like their fluff.
 
We should have a
 
hehe
 
3:13 PM
Doesn't scale. You'd then need to use for posts complaining about downvotes.
 
@Dharman At your service!
 
Why do we even have a tag
 
@Dharman Yeah, it's like an invitation to ask an OT question!
 
3:34 PM
 
@halfer Would a RO remove my "Needs Clarity, producing question comments and a guess answer" above? An SME has now said his questions seeking clarity were unnecessary, and he is happy with his answer. Thanks.
This reply-to-self thingy is cool
 
Is it a userscript? Which one?
 
3:52 PM
@Dharman No, it's just manually entering the :id of one's own comment, at the start of a message. The "reply" icon against other people's comments does that automatically, but to do it for one's own messages, one has to click the down-arrow to the left of a message, and peek into the Permalink.
I imagine could actually do that in a user script
 
@Scratte hey, just in case you're wondering, I gone one email back for those two reports. It seems it's only related to one of the tickets. I suspect I'll get another one for the second ticket when they get to it. In short, it says "Thanks, we're working on it - it would probably take a while. You might not get any more emails about this".
 
@VLAZ Thanks. I always wonder about things :) I suspect the website will be asked to provide attribution and that they have 30 days or something like that.
 
@Scratte SO can also report then to report the site to the ad services used. Both the ones I reported used google ads, if not others as well. The report might stop ad revenue until resolved or something. Not sure how that works exactly.
 
4:07 PM
 
@VLAZ I think the 30 days is from the cc-by-sa license itself. Not sure if the add services will do anything within the timeframe.
 
@E_net4inafullmetajacket We thought about but rene objected for some reason
 
Probably because as a flower, he's triggered by the mention of fire.
... which is weird because live plants aren't actually all that susceptible to it.
 
.. but they can still feel hot
 
This can only mean one thing. rene is a dead plant. A zombie!
 
4:27 PM
He's using the camera blur to hide his autopsy scars!
 
Also, the blurriness makes it hard to shoot him in the head. Wait, how do you even kill zombie flowers?
I guess we actually have the answer for that.
 
4:50 PM
I know a bountied Question can't be closed, but can one still close vote on it? Or is that feature just not possible while the bounty is active?
 
@Dharman Difficult one. It is on-topic, and I've never before seen spam posted as a Community Wiki.
... and I think there is full disclosure.
 
Where is the disclosure?
 
@Dharman I will change the world.My collaborative architecture POWER makes it pretty clear to me they are part of the project
 
ninja'd :)
 
5:05 PM
The opening sentence, too. (But I think that could be edited out.)
 
I clicked the link, of course.. being a clicker! "My refutal of SOLID is here: url"
 
I am not conviced. It still looks like spam to me
 
@Scratte So did I - the site is daft, maybe, but not dodgy.
 
The site is fine.. thought the license is a bit.. lacky
 
Have you checked the user's history. They mention this product/site multiple times in their answers
 
5:07 PM
Are we supposed to do that openly in this room? /da
 
Right, I should've asked this in Charcoal. My bad
 
Oops..
 
I have seen at least 5
but I only checked the last 7 answers
 
I'd be reluctant to go spam on it. It looks like they mean well.
 
Hmmm. Multiple posting of links to the same self-published website is definitely in the realms of spammy.
 
5:12 PM
@AdrianMole Yes. Maybe I'm just feeling extra nice after the burning of our only flower :(
I'd be inclined to comment and ask them to edit out the link and see what happens.
 
@Dharman Maybe the canned comment about how not to be a spammer on one or two of their posts?
 
I think the idea of that answer is to promote this product. You can't remove the link.
The dodgy site doesn't really help the case.
 
I can remove them easily :) But the post makes sense with all links removed.
 
Have you seen the About page?
 
I did not see that coming.. :O
 
5:27 PM
But ... on the contacts page, they say they have two kittens. We can't turn kittens into spam, can we? :)
I'm starting to go with @Dharman. This is overt (and multiple) self-promotion (irrespective of the sanity or relevance of the site's subject matter). But how to best go about flagging these multi-posts? Spam flags on one may well be declined, without proper context.
 
Mod flag seems to be the choice. I would move this conversation to charcoal but the room is empty at the moment.
 
Yeah, just checked out CHQ ...
You could link this chat in the mod flag.
 
The more I look a this, the more I'm leaving the innocence of the flower too. Not quite over the burning yet..
Is anyone going to leave a comment on one of their posts?
 
I put the canned comment on one (but didn't actually flag it).
 
5:40 PM
I upvoted your comment :) I expect Dhaman is on top of the rest.
 
I mod flagged.
 
5:58 PM
This post was in Spanish. It was translated into English in an accepted edit, and then became a Hot Network Question. What to do? stackoverflow.com/questions/61670882/… stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/26064084
I raised a mod flag, but I'm unsure of whether to rollback
 
@S.S.Anne It seems to me that it has enough voting to sort answers, even if the OP can't read any of them
I'd leave it
 
I was thinking that, too. It has so many upvotes that it'd probably useful to a lot of other people, if not the OP.
 
@S.S.Anne @RyanM seems it's no repro anymore after 9.1.6 which just came out (and now at least 2 answers are saying that and only that... yay)
this is why I don't think we should allow Qs that are about temporary bugs in minor revisions of common/popular software programs/libraries
like the google maps thing or this, it will be fixed in another incremental build in hours
and OP got 200 rep and a nice question badge for posting something in Spanish *upside-down smiling emoji*
 
We shall close it as no repro and then delete it.
 
6:13 PM
@TylerH The Google maps thing, sure, it was a server-side issue that will no longer be reproducible in any way in a couple weeks, but a bug in Angular 9.1.4 will permanently exist in Angular 9.1.4, and "update to 9.1.6" will continue to be good advice. The fact that the OP got a bunch of rep for a bad question is unfortunate, but it's far from the most rep someone has gotten for an underwhelming question
just my 2c though, may not reflect consensus
People run outdated library versions all the time (I even have a canned comment for "oh god please stop using the android.support libraries that were deprecated like a year and a half ago")
 
@TylerH Does it matter that someone got a reputation boost? Lots of people had this issue for while and they all went looking here. Not sure how that's a bad thing.
 
although, uh, if the library is so broken that you can't run your thing at all, maybe not...
 
@Scratte the reputation boost is not so much a problem as the privileges that come with it
someone who posts a question in a non-allowed language and doesn't come back to fix it is not the kind of person we want to allow to do more things on the site
 
@TylerH That's what I figure about a lot of very highly upvoted simple Questions. Like the git one or the i++ versus ++i
 
but after 200 rep such a user has lots of new abilities, new user restrictions lifted, and also will get 100 rep on every other site (the association bonus)
it's not a huge risk but it's an annoying when that adds up after dozens or hundreds of users do such a thing and get upvotes. This is why the downvote option should be among every user's most-exercised
@KenWhite I'd recommend a Gigabyte AB350-Gaming-3... wait...
 
6:22 PM
Is this question on-topic or should it go to Super User? Not programming (or a great question) but it relates (sort of) to software dev tools. stackoverflow.com/questions/61673898/…
 
This seems to me like a more fundamental issue with SO's completely broken rep/privileges system, but I guess we work with the system we have...
There's a user with full trusted-user privs (30k rep) for contributing nothing more than effectively android:gravity="center_vertical|center_horizontal"
 
I've regretted several of my votes, so I wait. I suppose I wait until I just forgot to do it.
 
@RyanM (it was 9.1.5 actually, wasn't it?) Sure, for major or even for some minor versions I could see that, but for an incremental version I'm not sure I buy that argument. Especially one that was patched so quickly that people who upgrade would've only seen 9.1.5 for a day or so
@RyanM Yeah, part of it is the system, but at least such a user contributed something useful, however minimally
 
(question says 9.1.4)
 
@RyanM That is funny.. just like the 10K for "just restart your IDE" :)
 
6:24 PM
@RyanM Hmm, one of the comments mentioned 'seeing it when I went from 9.1.4 to 9.1.5', but maybe they were talking about the shim code to fix it
It would be an interesting system for upvotes to give users less rep over time for upvotes to older answers
 
@DavidBuck IMHO off-topic, it's basically "how do I recover deleted files?" The fact that the files happen to be code doesn't seem relevant to the question/answer.
 
e.g. +10 rep the first year, +9 the second, and so on until you are only getting +1 rep for answers that are 10+ years old.
 
@TylerH Would you dare to apply that retroactively?
 
@TylerH I'd advocate for just diminishing returns. You can't get more than, say, 500 rep for a single post, and then lower the privilege thresholds and require a certain number of "correct" moderation tasks before additional moderation privs are granted.
and I say this as someone who got 1000 rep for saying import sys / sys.argv[1:] (-:
 
I'm not a fan of diminishing returns on old answers. Why should the help I gave a user 2 years ago and the help I give a user today be different?
 
6:29 PM
(also to be clear: when I say diminishing returns, I mean diminishing with the number of upvotes, not the age of the post. I concur with @NathanOliver that the age of the post isn't super relevant.)
but rep should be a measure of the consistency with which you produce good content
 
Keep the rep the same and start a new "moderation reputation". That rep only increases as you moderate correctly. That way you don't tie subject matter expertise with site moderation expertise.
About the only thing I wouldn't want tied like that is dupe closure. SME's should be trusted with dupe closure.
 
the dupe closure thing is kinda broken too
 
The previous Smoke Detector is spam, by the way, OP of both post and answer are the same as the name in the blog that it points to.
 
@TylerH Amazingly, that question is still open. ???
 
From personal experince I can say that answering Questions did not give me any proper tools for correctly reviewing.. so I'd say that any reputation level is just not good for that.
When I say "tools" I mean knowledge.
 
6:33 PM
it counts rep on tag and number of posts, but doesn't take into account the distribution of that rep across posts
a user with 200 +5 answers is an SME. A user with 1 +1000 answer and 199 +0 answers is not.
 
Does negative score count on tags?
 
I assume so, but you can just delete negatively scored posts and get the rep back (also, arguably, broken)
 
I mean what it a user has 1000 +1 answers and 1500 -1 answers?
 
@Scratte It'd be the only way to do it frankly
 
@RyanM Not sure if that is broken. It makes for an incentive for users to remove it themselves.
 
6:39 PM
@Scratte I'd argue for getting half the rep back personally, for exactly that reason
 
@RyanM all-time limits on individual posts would be interesting too.
 
@TylerH I think you'll have to be very persuasive to get support for that feature-request.
 
Not sure I agree that the value of a post doesn't diminish over time. Some stuff doesn't, but a lot of stuff does
maybe not so much as -1 every year, but some combination of that and an all-time limit (like 500 rep or 1000 rep) might be an interesting change
 
I think a per-post rep cap + diminishing returns with # of upvotes on the post addresses most of the concerns with that without the downsides of failing to reward answers that are useful to a steady trickle of people over time
 
I think it'd be better than having a separate reputation score for moderation activities... I think 'reputation' isn't a good way to measure moderation activities/skills
 
6:42 PM
@TylerH You mean someone could have reviewed 2000 posts without being a good reviewer?
 
@Scratte First, yes definitely. Second, I more meant that measuring how much someone has reviewed as 'reputation' doesn't make much sense
 
I think "reputation" is the wrong term for the "moderation points" - probably "experience" is the right concept. for instance, say you weren't able to cast delete votes until you'd done 2000 close-vote reviews, or something like that.
 
even just calling it a 'score' would be a bit better than 'reputation'
 
@RyanM That's a good idea.
@TylerH That would be a little confusing, I think. We use score for posts.
 
it's basically how the flagging system works: you get more flags for your flagging experience
 
6:46 PM
of course @Scratte this is just a discussion on the idea. I have no intention of making such a major feature request after only a little discussion :-)
@Scratte we use it for tags as well
 
@TylerH Yes, but that's because it's tightly connected to the score of the posts, I suppose?
 
7:30 PM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
@Makyen when you said a bountied post that lacks a mvce should be closed, did you mean raising a custom flag?
 
@Scratte If a bountied question should be closed, there's no other way to do it, other than raising a custom mod-flag and explain (i.e. it's not something that regular users can affect).
 
@Makyen Yes, ok. I can't remember any of my custom flags being handled in less than a week.
I expect there's no option for >3K to vote on it either then? Or does it just collect on the votes and then immediately close it once the bounty expires?
 
@Scratte It's going to depend on what you're asking in the flag and what else is in the queue. Of all the flag types, custom mod-flags usually take the most time/effort. Sometimes is quick, sometimes it's a long time.
@Scratte The system rejects the close-vote.
 
7:45 PM
@Makyen Thanks :) There's less than a day left on the bounty now. I did feel a little bad about not raising a flag, but..
 
I went full meta. Not sure what it means, but I like the phrase. :D
 
@Scratte that's why I can't see it when I went to have a quick look then :)
@DavidBuck err... what am I missing with the spam flag you've got raised?
 
@JonClements That would be a very good reason indeed :) I can raise one now if you want, but it's a java question.
 
has it attracted any answers or anything - is it causing a mess?
 
Two answers. One is not very good. The other is a guess, but to be honest.. it's not a bad guess.
 
7:51 PM
Okay... since it sounds like the bounty is almost over anyway... might as well potentially let the OP lose it and maybe comment what it needs and make a note to close it later...
 
Way ahead on those things :) Thank you :)
 
Cool :)
 
8:21 PM
Does posting an image of another answer count as plagiarism? No accreditation, or even a link to original! (From a Smokey report).
 
@AdrianMole Yes.
 
I would say so, but I would communicate the issue first and see what happens.
 
Somebody ninja'd me on the comment.
 
@AdrianMole any copying without attribution counts, considering the license of the site requires attribution.
 
@NathanOliver My question was sort of rhetorical. Served it's purpose, though!
 
8:28 PM
@AdrianMole You tricked us?!?.. No more øl for you.. :)
 
And I gave you a rhetorical answer ;) (sorry, couldn't help using a line from DBZA)
 
... should have been a del-pls 20k request, I guess.
@Scratte I'll compromise: lemon instead of lime in the øl!
 
lol!.. you're out of lime?
 
Local store ran out.
Last week, they ran out of eggs, but I can handle beer without eggs.
Any folks here with a sense of deja-vu on this question. There was a whole batch by a different user, yesterday, and at least one by the same user.
.. all deleted now, I think.
 
@AdrianMole You've made me watch a video of someone mixing raw eggs, suger and beer..
 
8:42 PM
Well, that would be on-topic for reddit! :)
 
@Scratte Yes, downvotes count against the tag score needed for tag badges. For tag badges, it's "total score" on answers with that tag.
 
@Makyen Thank you. I just read the definition. There's even a minimum answers requirement, so there's noway to make a badge with just one answer :)
Though it does get a little blurry if I have 20 answers, and only one of those have a positive score, I could still make the badge.
 
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