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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

user10957435
21:00
@CodyGray Don't forget the OP of the post, though...
Or my famous sockpuppet, Bart.
@CodyGray In a scenario where I want to answer a question (not by me), but my other account don't have enough rep to ask for clarification. Which strictly is circumventing the limitations of the account that wants the information.
@Chipster In this example Scratte is also the OP though
user10957435
"for get" Sigh...
@Chipster In this scenario, Scratte would be the OP
21:01
@Scratte If you have an account that has enough rep to do that, why even use the one that doesn't?
@Scratte Oh. Yeah, that...would probably be OK.
user10957435
@CodyGray Oh, well nvm then. Must have read too fast and missed that.
why not just use one account?
Because he wants to answer with the low-rep account to gain rep.
Right, but... why?
Are you just trying to get rep for a testing account or something?
21:01
@TylerH Because the other account need to answer question to get reputation to make comments :)
@CodyGray yup :)
The underlying question here is, why is another account needed?
Actually I was reading about arbitration. I'm not done with all the posts yet, but I seemed to have missed the 30 day window.
@TylerH Not sure about you but I like having more than one pair of socks ;)
Arbitrage?
@Scratte Are you talking about the mandatory arbitration clause in the TOS?
21:04
For what it’s worth, I have been on Stack Overflow while (1), and haven’t ever needed more than one account.
misspelled it.. meant arbitration
@NathanOliver That's the one
@Scratte Do you happen to live in the EU?
Also, I don't think creating a sock and opting out will exempt you from the arbitration clause.
@NathanOliver I like to wear both a belt and suspenders
@NathanOliver Not sure. TylerH actually asked that question on one of the posts, and it was never answered.
Socks have nothing to do with arbitration. Arbitration clauses are just a new thing in US contract law to help vendors avoid lawsuits.
@NathanOliver For both the CC BY-SA 3.0 -> 4.0 migration and the Documentation archiving an SE employee stated that they had gotten approval from their lawyers. But, frankly, I just don't see how any even semi-competent lawyer would think that their initial position in either situation was valid under the existing licenses.
21:09
@Makyen Me either. They should get a refund.
user10957435
^^ FWIW, I think the code is doing what it's supposed to, just not what the OP think it's supposed to. But I recon I'm just speculating.
Agreed, that was always fishy to me. Even if the lawyer specialized in something else, it was pretty much first-year law school
@CodyGray The terms as I understand them are to send SO an email within 30 days of creating an account to opt-out of arbitration.
user10957435
@Makyen They should have asked on Law.SE instead, lol.
man, there really needs to be an option to disconnect from the TFS server in the Team Explorer tab
I just wasted way too much time looking for that
21:12
Of course, I'll never forget what I once had a lawyer tell me: "You're getting the law confused with common sense. They are not the same."
@TylerH First time through I read TF2 server. I was wondering what this new team explorer tab was ;)
@Scratte They didn't really answer any question that people had, probably because their legal counsel sucks
@NathanOliver heh
@CodyGray that's very true. Like in the state I live in, if you wife has a child from another man, you are still the father since you were married at the time of conception.
@TylerH I noticed that. So I wanted to try out your "proposal". Then merge the accounts.
user10957435
@CodyGray Not sure if my boss would agree or disagree with that. Of course, she's her job is more CCO-like than lawyer-like.
21:14
@CodyGray To be a bit more precise, an arbitration clause is to limit the cost of a lawsuit, not to prevent the suit, although it does prevent some by making the probable payout lower and thus there's less incentive to file suit. Arbitration happens after the lawsuit is filed as a means of resolution which is an alternative to an actual trial in court. It's something that's normally available in almost any civil case, but tends to result in lower settlements than an actual court case.
@NathanOliver I kept trying to disconnect and even tried deleting all my workspaces, deleting the entire Team Foundation folder in appdata, etc.. But VS would just create a new workspace... with the old TFS server already connected
In many jurisdictions, non-binding arbitration is a required step for the parties to take prior to actually going to trial.
@NathanOliver Yeah, they should.
I was about ready to pull my hair out... "how do you know that server exists, Visual Studio?!?! >:O
@Makyen That's true. I was oversimplifying because I didn't want to type out all that on a phone. :-)
@Chipster If they did, they probably would have gotten a more accurate answer. :-;
21:15
@NathanOliver Biology is not something that is very widely understood, in my experience.
user10957435
;)
> vegetables were things "usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats ... and not, like fruits generally, as dessert."
This is the kind of thing that certain people would praise as "common sense".
@NathanOliver Yeesh, glad I'm not in that sta....oh wait
Yet, it's totally foolish and ridiculously paternalistic.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Could that be fixed by removing the "best" language, and just turning it into a "how do I solve this problem?" question?
user10957435
21:22
I remember hearing about a supreme court decision based on where a coma was placed in a passed law.
@Chipster Do you mean a comma? Because we've had plenty of legal wrangling about medical comas, too...
user10957435
Sorry. Yes, a comma. I'm batting 1000 today with spelling, I guess...
Commas matter, grammatically speaking. They can drastically change the meaning of a sentence.
For example, the second amendment's absolute phrase, which...far too many jurists seem to be unable to grasp actually modifies the entire sentence to which it is attached.
The law passed away after the coma
user10957435
In case you thought the Oxford Comma isn't significant...
21:28
And that's why I love the oxford comma for exclusive lists of things.
user10957435
That wasn't what I was thinking of, but works as an example, I guess.
@Chipster Hmm. I thought you were going to link to my favorite depiction of the dangers of failing to use Oxford commas.
@CodyGray agreed, personally
@CodyGray Not sure, then we are delving into guessing if the OP is thinking something but not stating it. They posted an outline of an algorithmic attempt but don't go into much detail on why they think it is good or bad. It's a bit confusing in my mind
folks seem to miss the whole point about the right of the people to keep and bear arms being necessary for a well-regulated militia
21:31
First question: "Are you part of a well-regulated militia?"
I also personally find it humorous that politicians in the US who tend to be pro-military are also anti-socialism, as the military is a huge socialism success story
We do have several of those. (Well, I won't argue about whether or not they are "well-regulated".) And they should obviously be able to bear arms.
But the guy who lives on a farm and needs his AK-47 to "protect himself"? Uh, what wel-regulated militia are you a part of, buddy?
Ah, we're discussing US Constitutional purism -- OK, what if you are found to be correct in your interpretation (if such a thing exists), who is going to go out and collect all the guns?
@HovercraftFullOfEels Are you busy next weekend?
user10957435
21:33
@TylerH That's a new one for me. How is the military an example of successful socialism?
@CodyGray: I'm far too practical a guy to fall for that.
I mean, frankly, that's not a very good argument. It would be like saying we shouldn't have question quality standards on Stack Overflow because we can't possibly close every single question that fails to meet them.
@CodyGray: I'm not stating that it is a good argument, just that practical matters, well, matter
Do they, though?
The state need not be a perfect reflection of its own laws in order for those laws to exist.
In medicine we have the term, "standard of care" that is used to determine whether a procedure followed generally accepted practices or not. These are different in different regions and can evolve over time
Same for interpretations of the law
21:36
@Chipster if you'll forgive the medium link... medium.com/@DanWebb69/…
Right. There is almost no legal definition (certainly no generally agreed-upon one) for "standard of care".
Where I live, nobody ever went to collect arms. There's typically "open seasons" where civilians can go to any police station and deliver weapons. It's worked out very well.
user10957435
@TylerH Perfectly forgivable. Gives me a chance to read up on it.
In recent cases, courts have generally held that "standard of care" is what a minimally competent physician in the same area of specialty would do, given the same resources.
It's more a 'social welfare' success story than a political socialism-ala-production-means-owned-by-the-masses success story, to be fair
21:38
However, courts have also found care-givers to be legally culpable for not pursuing "reasonable" courses of action, even if those practices not the standard.
@TylerH Of course, "social welfare" is what the current debate is about, and what all US politicians mean when they call themselves "socialists". None of them are collectivists.
@CodyGray Yeah but 95% of the political spectrum won't know what to do if you take away their buzzwords
All western economies that I know of are mixed economies where there is a degree of socialism and capitalism
We elect our officials to help determine that degree
But yes, buzzwords have their effect, don't they
@TylerH Yeah, they'll have to make substantive arguments. Then what'll we do?
Seriously, it's like the Cold War is still going on. Or the Civil War, for that matter.
21:41
Are you all residents or citizens of the United States?
The same dogwhistles, the same buzzwords, the same fear-mongering.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yes, everyone ever.
It's more of an "un"-civil war
We've lost the ability to have a healthy disagreement
Well, maybe. There's also the fact that some points of view simply aren't acceptable.
user10957435
@CodyGray Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is praising the Castro regime...
It has 20k views
should that be considered?
@Chipster There’s a bit more nuance to it than that, I think you’ll find.
It was not the wisest statement that he's made
Even if he was praising their literacy efforts
Are you discussing politics now?
And I came here to escape the FaceBook polemics from my friends
To think
user10957435
21:45
@CodyGray Nuanced in what way?
user10957435
@Dharman Yup. Apparently we are somehow...
It reminds me of when John Lewis cautioned John McCain of the George Wallace effect. Everyone was like, oh, the Civil Rights leader is calling the white guy a racist. But no, that's not what he was doing. He was cautioning McCain of invoking the politics of racial hatred as a way of gaining political supporters, and warning him to take a long, hard look at who he wants to ally himself with. That same thing is what ruined Wallace's political prospects. Hardly anyone grasped that nuance.
user10957435
And, quite honestly should probably do in in Silly Hats or something.
21:46
@Chipster Like, he made an actual, specific, concrete argument, instead of just saying, "Dudes, Castro is da shit!"
@NathanOliver It's ok if you want to discuss politics, but where are all the cv-pls?
@Dharman: scroll up
@Dharman Sorry, I ate 'em all.
uhhh... finger hurts
21:48
Boom, 3 clicks right in a row. Missed a great opportunity to Rickroll us.
@Dharman do you have the URRS installed?
While we're on politics: What's NATO?
@Dharman type "cv-pls" without quotes into the room search bar and hit enter
@Scratte North Atlantic Treaty Organization. They get involved when someone posts a new answer to an old question.
21:49
@Scratte New answer to old question
@Scratte NATO is New Answers to Old Questions. It's a 10k+ "review queue"
@CodyGray lol! Nice one :)
@Scratte it's the quasi-military organization that is made up of mostly countries the US likes. Or on Stack Exchange it's "New Answers To Old (questions)"
You're all just so much fun :)
I am trying to build a bot to auto-flag some NAAs
21:51
@Dharman isn't that what Natty does?
It only does it to old questions
Ah, the fearless leader has stated that flu is worse than covid-19
I am going to run it for all
@HovercraftFullOfEels It was in 1918.
Pandemic Flu, yes, in a way
That infection hit the young hard
This one is opposite
since no one has immunity
user10957435
21:53
@CodyGray My argument against Castro is that Cuba had several human rights violations. Seemingly independent sources agreed on that. And to me, that kind of outweighs most of everything else he did.
Well the flu has killed 20K people this flu season while covid-19 is only at 3800
so far
@Chipster But does it, though? Can you not take the good and dispense with the bad? Clearly Sanders is not praising human rights violations.
@NathanOliver I think you'll find that it's not really the numbers. It's the percentage, that counts.
@NathanOliver: don't disagree, and hope that it dies down with warm weather, but the R0 for covid is higher than flu and the case-fatality is as well
common flu, not pandemic flu
21:54
The problem is it catches answers, which are false positives. e.g. it just found this one: stackoverflow.com/a/60608841/1839439
Gotta be careful with R0... It's often misunderstood as a metric of an infectious agent's likelihood to become a pandemic, but that's not accurate.
agree
Other factors figure in, including mortality rate
SARS was too deadly to become pandemic
In case anyone is wondering what made me laugh out loud this morning, it's an email forward I received from a professor at George Washington University saying that the way to prevent COVID-19 is to dip a cotton swab in vinegar, and rub it in your nose.
Of all the....
21:56
Now, I happen to have a background in molecular virology, so perhaps it's not entirely fair that I claim that to be ridiculous on its face. But I asked several others without the same background, and they also found it to be utterly preposterous.
user10957435
@CodyGray I'm not saying that. My point is the argument that he isn't an old-school communist is undercut by him praising an old-school communist. That's all I'm trying to say.
@Dharman when you said "it". Do you mean Natty only find answers to old Questions, or your new bot only finds answers to old Questions?
@CodyGray: cool. I am a physician in gastroenterology and hepatology, and (like you, I'm sure), I've done bench work and clinical research in the past
Even if vinegar could kill coronavirus (and the literature says it's less than 1/4 as effective at doing so than ethanol, and that is when bathed on a stainless steel surface), swabbing vinegar in your nose is not going to last all day.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Oh, what? I thought I'd heard you were a dentist.
@Scratte Natty only reports NATOs which are also NAAs. I want to run similar heuristics but for every new answer being posted on the site.
21:58
@CodyGray: serious? Heck no. I once did alcohol research :D
effects on liver fibrosis
I actually once got drunk in the name of science
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yeah, serious. I totally thought I remember hearing that. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else who is a dentist? I don't know. But that's super awesome.
COVID-19 needs, what, 75% alcohol content to be killed?
I don't remember, but do know that it is higher than 50%
@HovercraftFullOfEels Uhh, you aren't supposed to experiment on yourself. Pretty sure Barry Marshall taught us that.
user10957435
BTW: for anyone curious, Covid-19 isn't close to a pandemic
22:00
@CodyGray: the H. pylori doctor?
Koch's postulates
@CodyGray Just put vinegar in one of those nostril-dispensers and sniff it all day. Don't forget to give your eyes a go to.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Yes, that's the one.
ok, 3 flags they are out
but I wasn't. My friend and fellow researcher was doing genetic studies on ADH and ALDH, alcohol metabolizing enzymes, comparing phenotype with rate of metabolism.
The thing with alcohol percentage for disinfectants... It isn't a matter of more is better. And it isn't really something that varies depending on the organism (yeah, viruses aren't technically "organisms", OK?). 70% is generally the most effective. Anything below that has too much water to be quite effective enough. Anything above that generally evaporates too quickly to be very effective.
22:03
@Dharman Ok. But why not evolve Natty?
@Scratte 1. Natty is not my project. 2. I want to have fun and write something myself. 3. This kind of is built on top of Natty. It reuses the same rules.
90-99% ethanol is fantastic as a solvent. I use it all the time as an electronics cleaner. But 70% is actually a better disinfectant. Now, you can be like me, and buy two different bottles of alcohol each time you go to the drug store!
@Dharman I understand 2 :) Is it going with a point system as well then?
@Scratte Yes. It collects naughty points. It's still extremely primitive. I only spend 1 day writing it. So far I got the general idea and it reports stuff.
@Dharman where to?
22:07
my CLI at the moment
Piped directly to my inbox, probably. Something is causing it to overflow.
@CodyGray Does Stack Overflow cause your inbox to overflow?
@Dharman But if you want input, I think you might have to create a room for it..
@Dharman Yes
@Scratte At the moment I am not looking for input.
22:09
@Dharman Oh. Sorry. I thought you wanted an opinion on the answer it had reported on.
@Scratte Yes, but that was exceptional. Even humans can't judge sometimes the quality of a post. It was reported correctly though, because the account got nuked.
@Dharman I suppose that just proves that everyone here is human :D Except Cody..
yes, for now
I'm always happy to provide input, whether one is seeking it or not.
Sounds like my wife
3
M--
M--
22:14
@CodyGray in that case, do you think this is Opinion Based? stackoverflow.com/questions/9015337/…
@M-- I don't, no. Asking for a decision rule on when to use thing A vs. thing B is not the type of question that the reason originally named "primarily opinion-based" was seeking to prevent.
To be fair, the answers there are...quite horrible.
@M-- I guess someone should edit that last answer then.
M--
M--
@CodyGray Well, if not OB, then TB (Too Broad). Looking at the answers, I just cannot convince myself that the post should stay on SO (believe me, I am trying to review the question on its own merits)
@Scratte Someone should edit all the answers
Yeah, honestly I could see deleting all the answers. But I'm not sure that the question itself is problematic.
22:23
@M-- But we can't edit them into good answers. That would be changing the meaning. Even with the latest answer, I can only rephrase it. I can't even make it a correct answer.
M--
M--
@Scratte I was being sarcastic ;)
@M-- Oops.. I love sarcasm. I just didn't expect it.
I don't have a monopoly on it, @Scratte.
You have to be careful with the "changing the meaning" standard, though. For answers, the standard should be more "respect the author's intent". Do you think the author intended for their answer to be wrong, unclear, or misleading? I don't. If you can fix that by editing, you probably should.
@CodyGray I try not to use it. People think I'm serious when I use it :)
It's annoying that retracting a close vote does not give it back to you
22:26
@CodyGray Ahh.. well. This was my proposed edit: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/41570?m=48804798#48804798
@CodyGray I cannot change the answer to reflect that there IS a difference when OP is saying that there's not.
Yeah, you shouldn't make edits when you're uncertain.
@CodyGray I'm less uncertain :D
I've made substantial edits to answers, including fixing code, where I am a subject-matter expert. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I think that is to be more widely encouraged. If someone really disagrees with the edits, they can roll them back. But I love it when people improve my answers in this way, and I'm more than happy to do this with other people's answers.
Take Win32, for example. There's plenty of graphics code out there that leaks resources. When I see this in answers, I fix it. The answers are otherwise correct, but could stand to be better. I don't see the benefit in me posting a second answer just to fix the resource leak that the example code in the first answer has. I certainly don't need the rep, and it makes the site a less effective resource for everyone, because you don't know which answer you should be looking at.
But if you're not certain, then you shouldn't edit.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
22:34
TylerH looks different today.
Astronomically different.
Galaxially different.
I live to change
M--
M--
22:55
@CodyGray Not kidding! I watched a same video suggesting putting it into your (pardon my language) a**hole. YUP (┐「ε:)_
@M-- same ->> similar
@M-- Wow, that's...possibly even stupider.
I have no idea what that emoji is supposed to be, though.
I think it's been 24 hours since I mentioned that emojis are stupid, so perhaps it's time to do that again?
4
@CodyGray Depends on perspective. Doing it is, making a video is just making fun of people.
@Scratte Ah, you are assuming the video was satire. One can't be too sure these days.
@CodyGray I wouldn't put it past even me to make a video telling people to do stupid thing just to prove that common sense isn't common.
@M-- I can't see what that emoji is suppose to be either.
23:18
@CodyGray :-)
I had stepped out for a light coding interlude. :-)
@Dharman Thanks, I saw it.
@Dharman Strictly speaking, yes. You could translate it if you wanted, since it's not a question. But I don't want.
M--
M--
23:50
@Scratte @CodyGray you guys need emoticons dictionary. Give up and lie down. Stupid? Yes. Fun? Yes... And that wasn't a video made for making you laugh.
@M-- I wouldn't even know how to look that up in a dictionary! In what order would the emojis be ordered in said dictionary? I would have to know what these individual symbols are in order to even begin locating an entire emoji.
Start with... italicized left parenthesis, maybe? And then... uh, I'm already dead-in-the-water.
A box-drawing character!
It gets worse from there.
@M-- Ok. Can you give us the code point value, please :)
Should this be closed? Either off-topic or too broad. stackoverflow.com/q/60485996/1839439
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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