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12:00 AM
* It should be set up with carriage return as separator instead of comma-separated entries.*
 
@AdrianMole np. If the strike was on, we'd definitely have more explicit information in here that it was beginning. However, I can certainly understand wondering what the current status is.
 
I did see the pinned post from Mithical, and also read the Meta post by the new "Head of Product and Community." I'm currently in the 'cautiously optimistic' camp...
 
@AdrianMole I expect that there are a lot of us in that camp.
 
M--
@tink oh, I see :D
 
12:21 AM
@Dharman that distinction is for the OP to make. We cannot know what the OP actually needs (and we must not take actions on assumptions) because the question is Unclear. (I am at work now and cannot stay in chat)
 
It's a 10 year old question. I doubt even OP knows what they wanted back then.
Maybe others have different opinion about it, but I don't feel like the question needs closing after 10 years, especially after a lot of people found it useful.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:37 AM
I am unable to understand the format of this post: stackoverflow.com/q/12769982/5468463. How it is searchable?
 
 
2 hours later…
4:47 AM
@Vega don't know - Ctrl-F? :)
 
4:59 AM
@tink Hmm... is it a new feature on google? ;) Seriously, I don't see SO's Q&A format, no question and "random" answers, even though it seems have been "useful". I ended up by cv, knowing it will fade away. But that's okay :)
 
5:58 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
7:33 AM
@Makyen may I ask your opinion about how to best rescue Stackoverflow and its researchers from a page where an ambiguous question has resulted in the posting of opposing solutions? I feel this page is likely to confuse and waste the time of researchers and other existing pages are far more likely to be helpful. stackoverflow.com/questions/2192170/…
Dharman suggested making an assumption and editing the question to make it a single, definitive output, but this would make some of the answers completely wrong. Might it be closed by two existing pages -- one for each interpretation of the question? I think doing nothing is a disservice to Stackoverflow.
I am open to other actions.
Inaction would be a disappointment.
Old bad questions should not be exempt from our careful curation.
Oh good @Cody is here. You'll have an opinion. I'd like yours too.
 
8:20 AM
@mickmackusa It's a fairly typical example of someone asking a question with insufficient precision for us to know what the OP actually wants done (i.e. what the root criteria for 11223344 being the text to remove from the string). Knowing that information would make it much easier to select an appropriate methodology.
I'm also not really sure what they meant by "save it in a particular string in MySQL using PHP". How I interpret that portion of the question makes it appear that it's completely ignored by all answers. So, at a minimum, I'd remove that part from the question.
Personally, I wouldn't have answered the question until the reason behind 11223344 being the text that's desired to be removed had been clarified (e.g. were they wanting to remove that exact text and only that exact text; remove the text between position X and Y, remove the word(s) of the string which is/are numbers, remove the second word, or something else).
As with most programming languages, there are a lot of different ways which you could accomplish the requested task (i.e. generate a new string without a portion of the original string's text).
As to the variety of methodologies demonstrated in the answers, all but the one which is at the lowest score appear to do what's requested in the question (i.e. remove the 11223344 text). It appears that even the lowest scored one could be saved by an edit to make it use the same example as is in the question.
If there are duplicate questions which do a better job of focusing people on specific methodologies, I'd consider closing as a duplicate, particularly if there were questions with good answers that explain the available methodologies and why you would pick one over another under different circumstances.
However, there would likely need to be multiple dup-targets, each of which covered a subset of methods, or a similarly unfocused question where someone took the time to create a more extensive answer which explained various approaches to the problem. Unfortunately, I don't have the experience with PHP or the PHP tag to do a good job of finding the appropriate dup-targets, or writing such an answer.
So, the limited amount I would do is to remove the portion about MySQL from the question, which I mentioned above, and which all the answers appear to have ignored. If I was a SME, I'd probably look for good dup-targets, or consider writing an answer which explains the various approaches and why you'd select one approach over another, because it's obvious you'll never get clarification from the OP as to what they needed (last seen 2010, with this question their only post).
Note: I don't know PHP, so it's possible my quick interpretation that the answers actually accomplish the requested task is wrong. If so, then those should be cleaned up.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:39 AM
Does the example github link here feel like spam?
 
@Adriaan I can't see any connection between the user and it, and it certainly appears relevant (and fairly used, near 200 forks and 1.3k stars), I'd say no
In fact the github is linked to by the package page on pub.dev as well, so may well be official
 
 
2 hours later…
12:11 PM
 
12:38 PM
What to do with this? It looks like a link only answer. Except an added "Yes, it's possible" at the beginning seems to answer the quesion.
 
"yes, it's possible" is an answer if the question is "is it possible?"
 
If you remove the link would the answer still make sense? If not, then flag as NAA
 
@Dharman. But if I edit it to include "Yes, it's possible", then it makes sense.
 
@Scratte Then you are copying another answer
 
@Dharman So there's noway to salvage this despite the fact that the information in the link would be very useful to everyone that needs this?
 
12:49 PM
@Scratte Yes, there is. Convert into a comment
 
@Dharman Ok. That must be done by someone else then. Thank you :)
 
@Scratte Yes, either the author or a mod
 
1:18 PM
Morning
 
o/
 
1:41 PM
o/
 
o]
 
1:58 PM
^ Spam. User works for the company they're recommending
 
2:08 PM
@Das_Geek how'd you ascertain that?
 
@Adriaan Their LinkedIn page. Link is in a comment on the MetaSmoke report
 
Thanks for confirmation
 
@TylerH User works for the company/product they're recommending
Has multiple answers like this on other SE sites
 
@Das_Geek I saw, I just wanted to know what it was catching on
(and I'm lazy and don't often click the MS link)
 
Fair enough haha
 
2:21 PM
oh dear lord they changed the icons on the post editor
is nothing sacred
 
Woah, those quotes are..... no longer quotes
 
@TylerH I had to learn the crtl+L shortcut so I don't have to press that awful link button :(
 
2:35 PM
@TylerH There is noway that it could be covert spam trying to market this product? Or it's the only acceptable sort of spam?
 
2:49 PM
@Scratte It was removed by a mod. It was not converted to a comment.
@Scratte Are there any prior posts, which are covertly advertising it in a similar way by the same user?
 
@Scratte It is an unreasonable standard to expect users to be able to discern when someone has a legitimate programming question that references a given website, and when someone manufactures a legitimate programming question in order to advertise some website. People with issues re: their website code will, necessarily, have to ask about their own website to get help with it.
In other words, the only difference there is intent, and per the rules of the site we are supposed to assume good intent.
However, Dharman brings up a good point: if you have some evidence that it is spam (such as prior posts or some off-site evidence), please do share that.
because that would be evidence of bad intent
 
@Dharman Thanks.
 
Could also edit out the "offending" links, and put in example-sites since a question that relies on the current, existing structure of live websites would be off-topic as unlikely to help others.
Maybe.
 
@Dharman @TylerH No, they haven't used those sites before. I checked. I can't know if they have other accounts, so I did just assume good faith. I was just wondering about the rules. Thank you :)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:13 PM
@Vega heh. Different strokes, I guess. I find it pretty disorganised myself
 
@M-- @AndrasDeak might have a different take, but it seems likely it's no repro (package is missing)
 
yes, no repro, looking at the answers
there's a common failure mode which could make it a dupe, but it doesn't apply here
 
4:30 PM
VTC as a typo then
@AndrasDeak Thanks
 
no worries
 
 
2 hours later…
6:46 PM
 
M--
7:01 PM
@TylerH You think it's NAA not spam? stackoverflow.com/questions/39782591/… (p.s. sorry I left a comment, but then I thought it's better to talk here)
 
@M-- damn I hate those stupid auto comments
@M-- If the VLQ queue offered an option to flag a post as spam I may give more spam consideration to posts; as it doesn't, I've been wired to not consider spam as a possible case for posts I come across there. It clearly looks like spam
 
M--
@TylerH C'mon they're not that bad. But understandable :D
 
@M-- I'd rather it not leave a comment at all for any of them. For that reason I typically remember to select "no comment necessary" just because the comments suck so much (IMO)
 
M--
@TylerH Right. I thought you mean the userscript. I just realized that you were in the review queue. I am with you on that. Those comments suck big time.
 
8:07 PM
 
8:23 PM
@yivi: I'm trying to learn PHP right now, and saw that you're fairly proficient in it. Ugh. This is definitely not Java
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Seriously?
 
@Machavity Seriously
 
"This is not where I parked my Java"
 
And FWIW, PHP does not have Exception in Some.Really.Long.Class.Name.Here.Java.is.so.awesome.am.I.right.Oracle.licenses.are.mandatory.yolo
 
8:26 PM
LOL
 
You've got me curious what you're using PHP for. And hopefully it's in a current release like 7.3 or 7.4
 
@Machavity: I'm a Java hobbiest and fairly expert in a dead/dying field of the language, Swing GUI's,....
So I figured, time to learn a new GUI library.... but I figured, what the heck, learn new languages and platforms entirely, and so I decided to jump into web programming, seeing if I can create apps that way that are available to me wherever...
So that means PHP, HTML, JS, CSS....
.... oh and I started out with database coding which is where the PHP/MySQL comes in
 
Hopefully they're showing you how to use PDO and not mysqli
 
The tutorial that I jumped into started with mysqli, but stated that PDO was the way to go eventually, and that makes sense to me, coming from a fully OOP-ified language, Java, I am naturally drawn to the OOP aspects of PHP.
 
you guys just need to pick one, sheesh. first you say use mysql, then you say use mysqli, now it's pdo...
 
8:31 PM
LOL
What gets me is that if I remember correctly from JSP, it is considered very bad practice to mix Java with HTML, but with PHP it seems very much the opposite -- most of the code that I've seen is a mixture (though it all eventually comes out as HTML). It just rubs me wrong
 
Well, PHP kinda got caught in the middle. The original mysql_ functions were written around MySQL client. When MySQL changed their licensing, they realized they couldn't keep it in PHP
mysqli (the "i" is improved) was written from the ground up and actually fixed a lot of things the original API didn't do well. mysql native driver added even more on top
 
and now mysql methods (oops, "functions") are no longer supported
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Nice. I think PHP is pretty good, even though I am planning to learn some Node next
The energy and expertise that goes into lang features now is pretty good IMO
 
@halfer: we'll see how long I can keep this up. I'm 62 and learning a new language -- foolish
 
8:45 PM
@Machavity: got it! :D
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Heh, I hope to also be learning new things at 62! As of next week I have a sabbatical, and I will be looking at Node, Jest, Kubernetes and maybe a smidgen of Go
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels You may be interested in a PHP tutorial I wrote, ilovephp.jondh.me.uk/en/tutorial/make-your-own-blog. For "real world" applications one would probably use a web framework, but this is a simple introduction on what the language can do on its own.
 
9:05 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels Drop that tutorial immediately. Pretty much anything that shows you how to use mysqli is wrong.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Don't mix HTML and PHP. They should be kept separate
 
@Dharman: Thanks. It didn't look "clean" to me that they mixed the two together.
@halfer: I will check that out thanks. By framework, do you mean WordPress or Laravel?
 
For you it should be easier to spot bad practices, since you have experience with OOP
 
@Dharman: PHP looks to have had OOP tacked on as an after-thought
 
PHP can be written completely procedurally, but it is a nightmare. Complete spaghetti code.
Yes, but it is not so bad.
Good IDE is a must
Don't code in Windows Notepad.
If you see any piece of code using mysql_* or mysqli, stay away from it.
Use typing, don't leave it to the interpreter.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Laravel, Lumen, Symfony, Zend, Slim I think are the main ones.
 
9:14 PM
@halfer Why doesn't your tutorial use PDO exceptions?
Forgive for not having time to read through it all if it is explained there.
 
WordPress is more of a CMS with lots of plugins and themes (it has a massive ecosystem and userbase, but has rather old internals and so suffers from quite a lot of security issues).
 
Reportedly some 10% of the internet runs on WordPress, don't know if that is correct...
 
I think that's probably a little low
 
Which IDE's do you use for PHP coding?
 
9:16 PM
@halfer Yikes. Wordpress, the disgrace of PHP
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I learned PHP in Dreamweaver. If I were forced to do PHP again I'm sure I'd use Visual Studio
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I like VS Code
 
@TylerH: Visual Studio Code?
Yep, got it
:D
 
The best one is supposedly PHPStorm
 
The best beer is the free one that your buddy just handed you
 
9:19 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels No, Visual Studio
 
Thanks, since as far as I know, VS Code is not a full IDE but more of NotePad++ like editor (I think)
 
I hate VS Code's UI
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels It's an IDE. It's got everything you need. I don't need to leave it when I am coding in PHP.
 
apparently some sub-20 year old got on the team and decided 'hey lets do away with the menu bar' 'hey lets put pictures in place of words'
 
It has syntax checking, terminal, GIT, debugger and so on
 
9:21 PM
'hey let's put all the settings in an undiscoverable format in a single json file'
 
@TylerH Why do you need buttons? Don't you have keyboard?
 
@Dharman I don't understand the question
 
You rarely have to use the menus if you can remember all the keyboard shortcuts
 
@Dharman I don't recall. Is that is a flag that can be set when creating a connection object?
 
@halfer Yes
 
9:24 PM
@Dharman I think people give WordPress an unnecessarily hard time. It is true that the internals are not of great quality, but I trust the judgement of Automattic, who have an amazing set of developers keeping it going.
Rewriting it may not be possible without destroying the ecosystem
 
@halfer I hate it, because it propagates the bad coding practices.
 
@Dharman I love it because it is successful and has made internet development more accessible
(Though I understand where you are coming from)
But thank you for the steer, all the same
 
@Dharman that requires way more time spent in the program than I have spent, and also most of the time I don't even remember which command I need, so I need to look for it
 
@halfer PHP made him that way...
 
@Dharman I fear you let him off the hook all too easily.
 
9:27 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels PHPStorm. Jetbrains has an amazing product. If you don't want to pay, Netbeans is better than nothing
 
@TylerH I do agree with you that the icons might not be easy to understand, I mix them up too.
 
People are a product of their environments, sure, but at what point do we say that appalling behaviour is excusable? There must be a line.
 
@halfer It's one of the few people who actually care and who you can learn PHP properly from. The behaviour should not overshadow the knowledge.
 
@Dharman We are in civil disagreement then. That's OK
 
I am constantly in a disagreement with someone. I would be surprised if it was otherwise.
 
9:30 PM
@Dharman That is not at all the same thing. If you are in civil disagreement with someone constantly, cool - everyone is.
No prizes for it, unfortunately! No prizes for decency though either, but we must insist upon it.
@Dharman Regarding PDO exceptions, is it sufficient to merely set the flag, or does "good practice" require that all PDO operations are wrapped in a try-catch? I wonder if that would make the code rather verbose.
 
I agree all of us should try our best to be nice no matter what. I really don't mind when someone tells me I overstepped a boundary. I can delete a comment and say sorry. Anger fuels anger.
 
Let's change the subject. We're not here to bash one user
 
Yes, apologies - Machavity is right
PDO Exceptions instead :-)
 
@halfer Don't use try/catch unless you really really really need it. Don't just catch the exceptions because you think you should.
 
@Machavity Can you delete my "hold my nose" line above?
@Dharman Suits me! Less code = clearer examples :-)
 
9:33 PM
Seeing all the people in PHP constantly making the same mistakes, using the same bad tutorials again and again has its toll on you.
 
@halfer Done
 
@Machavity Marvellous, thanks. I should rant at the cat instead ;-)
@Dharman Oh yes, I agree. I even wrote a "bad tutorial list", but then no-one looked at it. I tried tweeting authors of awful material, but they ignored me, or nodded and then did nothing.
 
Whether its mysqli or PDO you need to ensure that you have the exception mode switched on and the correct charset set.
 
@Dharman Yep, I have the charset sorted.
 
@halfer I tried something similar. They don't react.
utf8mb4 I hope
 
9:36 PM
@Dharman Some of them have done hour-long videos, and redoing them is time-expensive
@Dharman Sigh, no - utf8.
 
The catch with PDO is it defaults to escaping. You have to tell it to use true prepared statements. mysqli prepared are always prepared
 
No unicode for you then...
@Machavity Yes, but that doesn't affect many things.
 
@Dharman Is Unicode nice to have or necessary?
I don't think I have tried anything that it could not cope with - maybe smiley faces? Japanese kanji? :=)
 
Yeah, most of my legacy codebase does escaping and escaping failures are pretty arcane. Still, prepared has none
 
@halfer It's a shame on you if you don't support Unicode. Plus it's then really easy to break your application.
 
9:40 PM
@Dharman Careful with words like "shame". I appreciate your first language is not English, but nevertheless, that is not something you should wish on a person.
 
@halfer Shame is definitely something we should wish on people sometimes :-P
 
Mostly emojis 💩
 
@Dharman I think you meant "it's a shame" not "shame on you"
 
@halfer I didn't mean in an offensive way. In reality it's a shame on MySQL that they realeased something that people keep on misusing.
I don't think I even know what I meant.
There's plenty of posts on SO explaining this cunning trick by MySQL: stackoverflow.com/a/30074553/1839439
I am going to leave this room now. I think I offended everyone sufficiently for today. I'm going to delete some stuff.
 
@Dharman I appreciate the apology.
 
9:49 PM
I'm not sure I get how that was in any way offensive either...
 
In English, "it's a shame" or "it's a pity" is a throwaway remark indicating regret. "He/she/you should experience shame" is much stronger. Shame itself is a painful psychological feeling of intense embarrassment, in which the holder becomes their own mental torturer. Perhaps some people do deserve that, but not people who got things wrong in a programming tutorial.
 
Yes, sorry. Definitely not for a such a small mistake. :D
 
No worries :-)
I sometimes read a forum on social media where people talk about real psychological distress, I try to help out where I can despite not being qualified, and unfortunately I have lost my sense of humour about language around mental health. Maybe I need some more cat videos? :=)
 
IDK, it's getting harder for me to tell what things cause harm because it seems like everything does any more. I've spent the last few months trying to determine exactly what "ableist" is, If I could be one, and if it actually even matters. So although I didn't get how that could be offensive: If it is, it is. I also just hear my great-grandmother saying that in her way of scouring us kids without actually being upset at all: "You at all that candy I gave you, already? Shame on you"
 
@AustinTFrench I suppose grandma has the advantage of spoken tone
Plus the kids are used to her being grumpy!
@AustinTFrench I see what you mean though - there is a paradox around offence these days. Every time an offence is noted, it is seen in the context of "everyone taking offence to everything" rather than people understanding more about how other people feel. I mean, I don't think I take offence to everything ;-)
 
M--
10:19 PM
@halfer We have a "Shame Doll" in our office, whoever breaks the production, gets to keep it. It's a Koala, so I am actively trying to break the effin product. :D
 
@halfer I've seen it a million times, but for me this cartoon never gets old. It's called "For The Birds". I'm sure you've seen it too. I watch it whenever I need to smile more and there's no shame in that :)
 
M--
10:55 PM
Clearly asks for clarification and further information
 
@M-- Poster has "comment" privilege, so it should be a comment, IMHO.
 
M--
@AdrianMole Well if they didn't have the privilege, that wouldn't still qualify them for posting a non-answer as an answer.
 
Yeah, of course - but it adds weight to your argument, I think.
 
M--
11:14 PM
hmmm, IDK, it could. Thanks for the input. I guess we are on the same page, more or less.
 
@M-- IMO, the question shouldn't have been answered due to being insufficiently clear (i.e. why it's now closed), but the answer you linked is actually an attempt to answer and includes enough info such that it is an answer. That it also includes a request for more information and "thanks" are things which can be edited out. The portion which is a request for more information should be a comment.
 
M--
@Makyen you refer to this part: "Usually you will face an error if your single JSON record size more than 16MB size" as an answer?
Because this is request for info.: "Also please verify you have used following option in your file format. STRIP_OUTER_ARRAY=TRUE"
So is this: "Please share error details if possible."
And then "Many Thanks, 'username'" is just noise.
 
@M-- Everything prior to "Please share error details if possible" is part of an answer. The " please verify you have used following ..." is a polite formulation of "you need to do ...", which is part of an answer, usually not part of a request for more info.
 
M--
@Makyen That part is just copy/paste from a comment, previously posted. If it's an answer, then it's plagiarism. stackoverflow.com/questions/60354297/…
But I don't wanna go that far. I think they were genuinely asking for clarification, following up on another comment. But posting an answer instead of a comment.
 
11:34 PM
@M-- While the answer OP may have gotten the idea from the comment, the answer doesn't appear to be copying the actual words, other than the STRIP_OUTER_ARRAY=TRUE, which is way too short/common to start saying "plagiarism". If the answer OP did get the idea from the comment, then it would be nice if they gave credit for the idea, but the existing comment doesn't make for plagiarism (i.e. it's not actually copied text).
It's quite possible for someone to have a nearly identical method of solving something without having copied the content, or even the idea. I know I see several questions every day which I would solve very similarly to the already existing answers, both on SO and on other sites on the SE Network (i.e. I have the same idea as an already existing answer from just having looked at the question title).
 
M--
@Makyen I just wanna emphasize again. I don't think it's plagiarism. But in my eyes, "please verify you have used following" along with the existing comment is a follow-up request not an answer. I think we either need to change the way we look at this or agree to disagree. The existing reasoning from either side, doesn't seem to convince the other party :D
 
11:50 PM
@M-- While I agree that someone writing "please verify you have used following ..." could be a request for more information, in my experience it's more commonly used as a very polite way to say "you need to do X". For example, if I'm talking to someone trying to solve their computer problem, I might say "please verify that you've turned it on".
Now, if they had put in a comment "Could you please verify to me that you did X", that would be a request for them to actually communicate the confirmation. I also might interpret it differently, depending on context. It's possible that our different understandings are an issue tied to how English is used colloquially in different regions.
I'm fine with agreeing to disagree here. However, I'd suggest we both take away that what a person is intending to say with those words could be different than what we interpret it to be.
 

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