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12:17 AM
@LittleBowsette Two things to note: (1) There is a very small number of employees who monitor that account and review all the mails. There are a lot of mails, and a limited amount of time in the day. So, it is entirely possible that they haven't gotten to processing your email yet. (2) When an appeal is summarily reviewed and determined to be frivolous, there is generally no reply. The employee who reviews it will just delete the mail. So, that's also possible.
It is quite rare that moderators' decisions are overturned, since moderators don't make the decision to suspend an account on a whim or without evidence.
@Yunnosch You accidentally linked to an answer there, instead of the question. I edited for you. :-)
 
M--
@HovercraftFullOfEels How loud would you laugh at this: repl.it/repls/BaggyLoathsomeTruetype ... in reference to this Q: stackoverflow.com/questions/60290802/…
 
@M-- That took so long to execute after I clicked "Run" that I ran out of patience and closed the tab. Man, Java is slow. That's no joke.
 
M--
@CodyGray that online compiler sucks, but it let you share. (takes 20 seconds to run)
@CodyGray this one's faster onlinegdb.com/H1iiJ-9mU
 
@M-- "...and be expected to run on any device equipped with a Java virtual machine (JVM)." First off, that's a pretty important pre-condition. Second, what are the chances that a machine is going to have a JVM but not a C or C++ compiler? Portable C code is also "write once, run anywhere".
 
the only evidence that I can find is that I have the same IP as other users (which is not really sufficient evidence because I have family members that have used the site)
 
12:23 AM
@CodyGray Thanks. I assume I linked to an answer to a question which makes sense in the context?
 
@LittleBowsette Of course you cannot see the evidence. The information that is available to moderators is not made available to regular users, or they would be able to use that information to "game" the system and continue evading detection.
@Yunnosch I hope so. I just removed the link to the answer, turning it into a link to the question. You're on your own to make sure that the request is still valid.
 
@CodyGray I did and it is. Thanks again (just to also cover the way you did it).
 
M--
@CodyGray Totally agreeing with you. I am not advocating for Java. AAMOF, before this I've never written a single line of Java code. That's why I asked to see if someone with Java experience would find that code ridiculous .__.
 
@Yunnosch Only answers count as being "involved". Everything else is fine.
 
@M-- I find it ridiculous. Look at all those new String objects you're creating! What, do you think memory grows on trees?!
 
M--
12:31 AM
@CodyGray They don't? :O i.pinimg.com/originals/40/e7/5b/…
5
 
I know I have the same IP as other users because they are family
 
@LittleBowsette You keep fixating on IP addresses. Who told you that the evidence moderators found had anything to do with IP addresses? I agree that an IP address match alone is not sufficient. Moderators are a lot more diligent when we investigate vote/account fraud than that.
Aside from that, I do recommend that you ask your family members to stop voting for your posts, because that is inappropriate behavior regardless, and can earn both accounts a suspension.
 
they arnt because they dont have enough rep to do so
 
@LittleBowsette Cool. Well, you weren't suspended on Meta Stack Exchange for vote fraud anyway, so there is some other issue. I'm sure you were told what it was in the message they sent you when your account was suspended.
 
Damn, it would be closed by now if only I had stuck with my typo-cv.
 
12:39 AM
they said it was for suspension circumvention which is actually impossible with one account that just got unsuspended and no other accounts
 
M--
@CodyGray What about this: onlinegdb.com/SJb3XZc7I p.s.Stop replying when you felt like it :D
 
@M-- I think you need a StringBuilder.
@LittleBowsette Again, a couple of things to note. First, when moderators identify a sockpuppet account, they delete it, so the fact that you now have no more accounts is not proof of anything. Second, let's suppose for a moment that you have family members operating accounts. What are the odds that they will use their accounts to do things that your account was banned from doing? They are family members, not clones.
 
@CodyGray I thought they optimized the StringBuilder away? Meaning you don't need is anymore.
 
@Scratte Who is "they"? Do you mean that the Java JIT compiler would optimize it away at runtime? I...doubt it. Especially not in a loop like that, where there is a loop-carried dependency. I'd be shocked if the Java compiler was capable of that type of static analysis.
 
@CodyGray No. The use of the + operator on a String. It'll will go and create a StringBuilder on "it's own"
 
12:48 AM
Yeah, sure. If you're doing a simple concatenation using the + operator on one line without a loop, the compiler will probably turn that into calls to "append".
On the other hand, I wouldn't make assumptions like that. Why not write the code to express what you mean, instead of hoping the compiler will optimize it magically for you?
 
I have had one account the whole time so it doesn't make sense to me how I can circumvent a suspension in the first place because a second one year suspension was placed about six hours after the first
 
@CodyGray Seems that it does use a StringBuilder for the + operation, but this answer agrees with you that for loops, you should create your own. I'm just not sure that 4 runs inside a loop is enough to be bothered.
 
@LittleBowsette I don't have any more information about this that I can give you. I didn't investigate originally, and cannot go back and investigate now, because I'm not a moderator on MSE. But I'm pretty sure that they did not make a mistake. As a moderator here on SO, I deal with a lot of users making the types of arguments you're making, and I've never once found one who was credible. So...I just don't believe you.
@Scratte I really have no idea what I'm talking about here, as I don't use Java and have never studied the output of a Java bytecode compiler or a JIT compiler. But I have spent countless hours studying the output of extremely high-quality C and C++ compilers with world-class optimizers, so I have a pretty good handle on what is to be expected.
Although, I would be sympathetic to the argument that it doesn't matter. If you want fast and efficient code, don't write in Java. :-)
 
1:05 AM
do mods have to give a reason for chat suspensions
 
@LittleBowsette Yes, moderators have to give a reason for all suspensions. However, if your account is suspended on the main site (for which you will be given a reason), then the associated chat account is automatically suspended. No separate reason for the suspension will be provided in that case.
 
I have a suspension on chat.stackexchange.com/users/393617/little-bowsette but I never was told why
 
@LittleBowsette Your Meta Stack Exchange account was suspended, so your chat privileges were also revoked. You attempted to work around this by changing your parent account, but that's an abuse of the system, so the chat suspension was manually reinstated.
A trend and a lesson emerges: attempting to work around suspensions is not a good idea.
 
but I was told 365 days and se chat was set as 417 which clearly isn't the same suspension
 
Yes, attempting to subvert the rules does tend to result in increased penalties.
 
the suspension was 417 before I changed the parent site to what it was supposed to be which was supposed to be physics
 
@LittleBowsette In the judgment of the moderator who applied the chat suspension, you have repeatedly engaged in trolling behavior, both in chat and on the main Q&A sites. It has also just come to my attention that you've recently engaged in some trolling behavior in this very room. So, I am not particularly interested in relitigating this. I suspect you know exactly why you are suspended. If you still don't, you'll need to wait for a response from the SE employees via "contact us".
When you repeatedly engage in annoying behavior, moderators tend to lose patience, and the durations of the suspensions get longer.
 
1:46 AM
the only reason given was circumventing a suspension which I couldn't do anyways because it was likely biased on this statement: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=8237077#8237077
 
@LittleBowsette I'm not really interested in discussing this further. Nor do I think you need to keep going around the Stack Exchange network discussing it. My advice is that you wait for a response from Stack Exchange staff via "contact us", and in the mean time, you continue to participate constructively on Stack Overflow, avoiding any discussion about your suspension on other sites.
That would go a long way toward proving that you know how to participate constructively, and may be enough to argue for reinstating your privileges.
I already told you before that claims like "it is my sister's account" strain credibility, and the more I investigate this, the less credible your claims get, so I think I've wasted enough time here.
You've been making the same sort of claims on other sites, not just Meta Stack Exchange. Moderators across the network are growing tired of it. Stack Overflow moderators have even less tolerance for this kind of thing than other sites, so if you want to stay able to participate here, I recommend avoiding the nonsense.
You've been making excuses about your sister for nearly two years now. At this point, moderators don't really care why these problems are happening. They're just wanting to make them stop. As I said, if you can participate constructively on Stack Overflow, without complaining everywhere about your suspension on other sites, then that's a good argument for why your account should be reinstated. If not, well, then I think that speaks for itself.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:25 AM
Weird, this question got closed in mere minutes after it got posted stackoverflow.com/questions/60292934/… yet it's not a duplicate, the solution is an error in the code. Seems people sleep-flagged it.
 
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere The user who closed it is currently in this room lol
 
Oh hey hovercraft.
 
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere ping him with @
 
Try pinging him
 
@CausingUnderflowsEverywhere What do you mean "the solution is an error in the code"? The solution cannot be an error.
@HovercraftFullOfEels's duplicate closure looks reasonable to me. The error stems from a misunderstanding of how Java handles passing that array parameter.
 
4:28 AM
Cody Gray has a point.
 
Aside from that, please don't leave comments like, "This wasn't a good close." That conveys no information whatsoever, and just comes across as an attack. It's perfectly fine to leave comments explaining why you think the closure is invalid, as you've also done.
 
Hovercraft wasn't sleeping, I was. Thanks for your review.
 
Heh, no worries, @CausingUnderflowsEverywhere. We all have to sleep sometimes. And there's never anything wrong with asking a close voter to reconsider, especially if they single-handedly closed the question.
 
5:26 AM
^ Dang. Should've clicked "Needs more focus"
 
@RobbyCornelissen Doesn't really matter. They mean the same thing nowadays...
 
I miss “Too broad”…
 
5:45 AM
@sideshowbarker If we're going to reminisce, how about "lacks minimal understanding" or "not a real question"?
 
indeed :)
 
@sideshowbarker Or when we could just post idownvotedbecau.se/imageofcode
 
heh
 
Uh oh, now you're talking about me. I'm the one who deletes those. :-)
As it turns out, nobody actually wants to know why you downvoted. They just want to complain about downvotes.
7
 
@RobbyCornelissen I want idownvotedbecau.se/aaaaaarrrggghhh!
I could also use https://iupvotedbecause/YourAnswerProbablySavedMeFromLiterallyHoursOfPainfulTroubleshooting
 
5:57 AM
Sure. But first you need someone who'll sponsor that Swedish domain
 
I’ll talk my friends on the Nobel Committee
 
Start with https://iupvotedbecau.se/YouHonestlyTriedAndItJustDidntSuck
2
 
heh
In the long list of things SO has helped me fix that I think I otherwise would have wasted hours troubleshooting on my own: stackoverflow.com/questions/55439599/…
and wanna upvote the comment at stackoverflow.com/questions/55439599/… about a thousand times
> So you can jlink a perfectly good runtime with HTTPS support, but without any SSL/TLS/... implementation and only notice when the handshake fails with an error message that is... obfuscating. I get why this happens, but it is certainly not convenient nor following the principle of least surprise.
 
user10957435
On another note, I just read in the Tavern transcript about Giggle. I'm suddenly really scared for all its users. Their "bio-metric verification" feels really easy to defeat.
 
6:06 AM
> It's science!
No, it isn't.
I've never heard of "Giggle". Why is it sexist?
 
Ugh ... that's creepy.
 
user10957435
It's supposed to create a safe place for girls. To do that they exclude men. To do that, they verify you with "not pseudo science".
 
user10957435
"Bio-Science, not pseudo-science like phrenology, is behind this process." -- per the FAQ.
 
How does that even work? I can contact them for a manual verification? What is that manual verification going to consist of?
"Bio-Science" lol
 
user10957435
Who really knows.
 
6:11 AM
This is satire, right?
 
user10957435
That's why I say that's incredibly easy to bypass.
 
@CodyGray I even wasn't around for those close reasons and I kind of miss them. Although, I guess one could argue that questions that lack minimal understanding are also too broad because answering the question would require too much explanation on our part.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray I wish, but I don't think so.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica People do indeed argue that!
 
I kind of wonder if "not constructive" or "subjective and argumentative" are actually better close reasons than "opinion-based" too. On some of the other sites, you get people griping about "well, isn't this whole subject opinion-based?" We had a discussion on Meta on one of my other sites about whether we wanted to ask for a different close reason just because we got so sick of people griping about it.
 
user10957435
6:13 AM
 
Taking "primarily" out of "opinion-based" was a huge mistake.
And I think "not constructive" may have been even better.
@Chipster I still think it's satire, since reading about it makes me Giggle.
 
user10957435
Me too, to an extent. For me, I feel like it creates a false sense of safety for people. It's supposed to be "safe," but in many ways clearly isn't.
 
Yeah, I think taking the "primarily" out was a mistake (especially for the more subjective sites). It's not that people can't ask opinion-based questions, it's that if a question is opinion-based to the point that you can't even reasonably defend answers anymore that it's no longer a good fit for our format.
 
Yeah. Plus, there's the whole problem that gender identity is fluid, not static, so it doesn't make any sense to create a "social network for girls".
@yivi He has "created a simple response on my controller". What more do you want?
 
user10957435
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Sites like SO itself might be better with opinions left out. A lot of questions have a right answer. But other SE sites might benefit from opinion-based questions.
 
user10957435
6:20 AM
@CodyGray Yeah. Oh well. What we gonna do about it?
 
Opinions are fine when presented in answers. The problem is questions that do nothing but call for opinions, like polls.
 
@Chipster Not necessarily - there are sometimes questions that are at least somewhat opinion-based that lead to sharing good information. Here's one I particularly like, for example. (Full disclosure: I answered that particular one too).
I've actually seen a decent number of questions like that where there's not a clear-cut right or wrong answer, but it's still a good question that lead to some very good answers. I think that the important thing isn't that there be a single answer that's "the" one correct answer - rather, you should be able to defend answers with facts. If a question just invites discussion or speculation (rather than answering with facts), then it should be closed.
 
user10957435
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Good counter-example.
 
user10957435
It depends on how narrow we as a community want SO to be, I recon.
 
I was under the impression that programmers.se was "like so, but slightly more opinionated because we care mare about theory than practice"
now, if programmers AKA soft-eng gets merged into SO...
 
6:28 AM
Yeah, but you can still have good subjective questions about specific code
As long as people can still defend their answers - if all answers are equally valid or the OP's just ranting it would obviously have to be closed
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica now, not even that is the case on MSx :P
 
Yeah, people do rant on Meta a lot, now that you mention it...
 
@sideshowbarker The 404 page for idownvotedbecau.se/aaaaaarrrggghhh states: "You went looking for help in all the wrong places". So apt! :)
 
6:46 AM
^ I have no words...
 
@RobbyCornelissen Try an image?
 
But no one-box!
 
Yeah, I'm testing those now for a bit
 
7:08 AM
 
7:26 AM
@RobbyCornelissen haha :)
 
7:46 AM
I wish close-voting was possible for NAA answers which ask off-topic questions...
 
@Yunnosch Haha lol. not only those answers are not answers, also they're bad questions lol
 
The benefit for new users would be that they get more information than only "Ask a question instead.", i.e. what they need to improve even if their post is turned into a correct question....
 
@Yunnosch Yeah, first do comment what the NAA auto comments usually do, then after the flag, you could make another auto comment with something like: "While this is a question, this would be an off-topic question, please look at MCVE" or something like that
That could be done in a userscript possibly
 
@U10-Forward That might actually be an idea we should draw SOBOTICs attention to, lets move there. May I propose to copy your post there?
 
Okay, alright
@Yunnosch Sure
 
 
1 hour later…
 
9:50 AM
In preparation of the strike, that is due on the 24th, you might want to check the strike letter and contact @Mithical if you have final tweaks to its wording.
9
 
10:26 AM
@rene How long is that strike intended to last? If SE doesn't react, then forever?
 
@honk Current intention is a week
 
@NickA Thanks! Shouldn't that somehow be stated in the letter?
 
10:44 AM
@honk it is set to run for a week because it is believed that will guarantee its effects are noticeable for the visitors and as such puts pressure on SE Inc. The strike will be called off/ cut short if the strike committee believes the demands put forward are addressed / agreed on resolution. After the strike of one week normal operation is resumed. The goal is negotiation, not the burn down of the place.
The evaluation of the strike results might spark new (strike) actions where I assume the actions will escalate in their impact.
 
@rene Thanks for the explanation! Sounds very reasonable. I hope that SE will respond...
 
We have reasons to believe they will.
 
is that comment really needed though?
 
11:00 AM
@treyBake some form of mention that you didn't write that code yourself is necessary when copied. Whether a telegram account name does that I wouldn't know. I usually put my name + affiliation (university I work) and date I wrote the code in its self-doc
 
I don't want the crappy code I write to be attributed to me. I always put the name of a colleague in ...
7
 
@Adriaan but the accounts are theirs, or matches the pattern, just feels redundant to chuck in your email/other accounts if you're the code writer when they could just comment on the answer
 
@treyBake I suppose it depends. If it's your code, then no. I'm not sure if it's enough if you use someone else's code in the middle of your own. I'd like to know though.
 
I believe it's a way to enforce attribution in derived code
 
@treyBake When using someone else's code, that already has that in, I would think it's considered malicious to remove it. I've seen this happen on plagiarized code.
 
11:05 AM
// Please don't blame me for this code. I copied it from Stack Overflow
10
 
11:24 AM
@Scratte that makes sense, but does that post indicate it's mixing code? (not a Java whizz, so not sure what's defined and what isn't :))
 
11:38 AM
@treyBake No, it doesn't. But if could be an attempt to prevent someone from using it without tribute :) Maybe it's awesome code and the risk is real? :)
 
@CodyGray Thanks for the heads up on this. It's always good to have doubters, especially with regard to the dupe hammer, since mistakes do occur
 
@Scratte ah on same page now haha guess that makes sense :)
 
12:27 PM
 
1:15 PM
Morning
 
1:29 PM
o/
 
#o
 
1:48 PM
o/
 
@kvantour ? It was edited before it was even closed and the edit didn't even make it better, it just emboldened everything
 
!important
 
is it just me or did some of the fonts change a bit overnight?
 
Is it okay to RA flag this answer?
 
I'm looking at meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/394055/testing-github-oneboxes and somehow the title's font looks different
@NathanOliver absolutely. I already did
 
Cool
 
2:11 PM
@NathanOliver I'd say so, it's a blatant LMGTFY (and a snide one at that)
 
@TylerH I can't tell.
 
Might just be my morning vision
 
Oh man, 20K delete votes stopped the nuking :(
 
:-(
I can't see who delete voted it due to their new dumb shielding thing
10k users shouldn't be prevented from seeing 20k del voters IMO
although when I see the answer now it shows "hidden due to rude/abusive content" so maybe enough did get through?
 
Oh, wow. Didn't know that was a "feature". That BS. It was C++ experts that did it
 
2:17 PM
Oh you do mean 20k delete votes on the question?
 
@TylerH That happens if the answer is deleted and there are pending red flags on it.
 
@TylerH iirc it shows that as soon as a single red flag is present
 
@TylerH Yeah, the Q was deleted
 
@NathanOliver ah, I can see those voters. I thought you meant the answer was deleted by 20k users
 
Ah
I could have been more clear, but what do you expect from such an irrationally complex person such as myself? ;)
 
2:19 PM
lol
 
@DalijaPrasnikar that's an interesting amount of votes and answers for a temporary issue o.0
 
@Adriaan I'm sure it's a bunch of people googling about a sudden issue, seeing an SO question on it, and upvoting it to raise attention
 
nvm, I ninja'ed the rep recalc
 
2:36 PM
Yeah it takes a bit to undo the rep gains
 
2:56 PM
@Adriaan I tried to delete the original but there is a whole load of duplicates linked to it... what a mess. People cannot bother to check online service status
 
@DalijaPrasnikar then del-vote the entire tree. I have done that before, with help of the room
 
gotta go now... will post requests later
 
\o
 
3:22 PM
@TylerH There doesn't appear to be anything different for me in the computed font, font size or other font CSS on a current load of the page vs. another page loaded a couple days ago. However, which fonts are used could vary by a lot of factors, depending on what's been set in the CSS. It's possible that SE might serve different content based on other factors. It's also possible for software changes on your system to affect the displayed font.
However, I believe you're aware of the various possibilities.
 
3:34 PM
 
4:09 PM
@Makyen Yeah, turns out it was Windows causing it to look different. After about 45 minutes something loaded up, DPI or ClearText or something started working
I did check the CSS and it appeared the same (Helvetica Neue and all that) so I figured it must be a system thing at that point
 
@TylerH Have you tried cleaning your Windows? ;)
 
and good moaning all
 
Those that have the intent to join us in the strike might want to read this MSE post
12
 
4:25 PM
Pinned ^
Also, of course it gets posted right as I have to go do stuff for a while -_-
 
oooh, interesting
wow
 
@rene - sorry for being a lazy git; is there a link that summarises the strikes intentions and outlines the timing?
 
@tink we had a whole meeting about it ... ;)
@tink is this a good start (planned date is 24th of feb, lasting a week)
 
Heh. I figured that would have been the case - I just can't find it quickly enough :P and need to take off to get to work soon ... there's just too much going on here to keep the finger on the pulse at all times
@rene ta
 
@tink If you feel like sorting through a disorganized mess and a bunch of links, there's gist.github.com/superplane39/8139b4f60d946c7511c3f6f31ecd51a0. Although I'm going to say it's probably being put on hold for now
2
 
4:35 PM
I'm going on strike if the strike is cancelled ....
2
 
heh
 
@rene It'll be a good chance to really focus on what's important
 
@rene I think that's called a holiday ;p
 
@rene ... this!
 
5:07 PM
@CodyGray Now with hopefully sufficient distance (scrolling and emotionally) let me express my admiration for how you handled this. Clear, polite and appropriatly terse at the same time. Artistic diplomacy.
 
Likely a duplicate too, but can't tell of which
(see comments)
 
...to copy what I wrote in the strike channel on Discord to here:
Going to say it's best to put this strike on hold for a couple weeks and see whether or not Stack follows through with actions, and not just words. If they don't... well then, striking is still an option. If they do follow through... there'll be no need for a strike.
14
 
@Mithical Sounds like a plan. I'll give them a another couple of weeks to delivery on the newest post. I'm eagerly waiting for what they say about the licensing debacle.
 
Okay, who of the mods didn't agree on the strike? Let's give them flags to handle next week! What? Why wait! Give them flags NOW!!
5
 
!!!!FLAG ALL TEH THINGZ!!!!
 
5:34 PM
SOCVR sale: half off all torches and pitchforks!
5
 
 
1 hour later…
7:10 PM
 
9:15 PM
@AndrasDeak Is there a need for this tag? Seems kinda granular
 
@Machavity a language tag specific down to the subversion? I doubt it...
 
It's still small enough to burninate by retag
 
@Machavity nope
 
9:40 PM
@Machavity note that might be relevant if the question asks specifically about new features. That's just one or two possible things.
 
@AndrasDeak I mostly replaced with 3.x (which a number already had)
 
yeah, that's safe, thanks
 
Just that one closed Q left so burninated
 
That works for me
 
10:04 PM
@TylerH you were right...Revenge Downvote Wednesdays are real. I'm sorry I ever doubted you.
 
Alas, my condolences
I'm stuck in my own hell wednesday right now; suddenly my web application stopped harvesting the entered login credentials and instead decided to through an 'object null' error. When I checked the webserver and enabled asp.net impersonation, it worked again, except then I got hit with an endless login loop upon redirect.
yay code that breaks when nothing changes \o/
 
@Das_Geek I'm sorry to hear that too :(
 
10:30 PM
@TylerH My favorite!
 
@TylerH Heisenbug is best bug
 
No, Catbug is the best bug.
 

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