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12:01 AM
^ rofl
 
My favourite is "can you guys help me with my problem? [link to sock's question]" in chat
 
Quick question: Should I be flagging overly trivial questions with no research effort like this or downvote and move on?
 
@leonheess If you think the question should be closed for one of the reasons listed in the close reason dialog, then yes, you should flag it as needing to be closed for that reason. If you can't find a reason that fits, then it should not be closed, and you should simply downvote on the basis that it does not show sufficient research effort (by your standards).
 
note that you can also do both
 
@AndrasDeak The scene opens on Meta Stack Overflow. An angry user has posted a rant in the form of a question, complaining that all of their questions on the main site keep getting downvoted. They insist that all downvoters need to give a reason. A moderator investigates the situation, and determines that they are correct: every single time they create a new sockpuppet account to re-ask that question, it continues to get downvotes.
And you guys think the Meta effect is bad when it results in a couple of downvotes. Imagine when it results in a moderator deleting all of your sockpuppet accounts and suspending your main account.
 
12:06 AM
idiot tax
 
Am I right in thinking that heavily down-voted new posts get pushed into one of the appropriate review queues?
 
I thought only flags and reviews did that
 
@AdrianMole There is no path for that, as far as I'm aware. New answers to old posts always end up in the "Late Answers" review queue, posts that are automatically flagged as being low quality (due to length, poor grammar, etc.) get put into a review queue, and a user's very first post always ends up in "First Posts". But aside from that, unless someone raises a flag, downvotes alone aren't enough to put a post into review.
 
OK, juts peeking for info on how the AI works...
 
psh, yeah, AI
 
12:10 AM
Downvotes do signal other things, though, like question/answer bans, automatic deletion (Roomba), etc.
 
And from what it looks like posts with upvotes and no close votes can arbitrarily become audits
 
@NickA Yes... The system thinks that such posts are good.
 
@NickA Don't get me started on audits! :)
 
It isn't a crazy way of thinking, really. Other than the fact that not all of our audience is quality-minded and they don't always use the curation tools provided to them.
 
Does the system ensure that users never review their own posts? Including audits?
 
12:12 AM
I assume so, yes.
 
well, considering all the robo reviewers, there's no guarantee for anything in the quality-minded department, whether or not a user tries to moderate
and you only need 15 rep to upvote...
 
my thoughts exactly
 
You think that's bad, wait until you take the sheet off the head of "machine learning".
How does it work? We have no idea!
 
iirc one of my first failed audits was one of these "It's a duplicate answer but it isn't really" ones people have been complaining about recently... and I tried to flag one of Skeet's answers... (although i could be talking trash, we're talking years ago now)
 
12:15 AM
@Scratte I've had review in queues where I've 'been involved' - albeit, in an 'innocuous' way. (Like re-open on Qs I've close-voted, and/or where I've edited.)
 
@AdrianMole And out of pure integrity you pressed Skip? :)
 
@NickA I recently came across a "First Posts" audit (and obviously an audit - username was fuzzed-out, and I 'recognised the style) .. it was an answer from the aforementioned Mr Skeet. Made me laugh for a good few hours, actually, thinking about anyone who failed that test.
Genrally, I "Skip" if nothing has changed. If the "edit" has improved the post, then I'd give a "re-open" vote.
 
Here we are I flagged this answer as a duplicate of.... the same answer
Got a weeks review ban for that one xd
 
While it's open season on Nick A's review history.... remember this one? :-p
 
@NickA Often discussed on Meta
 
12:23 AM
Woah
Cody!
Get that out of here!
xd
 
Kibbitzing and reminiscing with a moderator around may be dangerous. Hehe.
 
The "Meta Effect" is nothing compared to the SOCVR Effect (when the Glasses are about)!
 
Tbf, (regarding the jon skeet answer dupe flag), if you don't realise that the answer you're looking for doesn't appear twice in the answer list and you don't know to look out for it, it's easy enough to trip on, I understand why there's as many recent complaints about those types of audits as there are
 
Yeah, that fuzzing out of existing answers is problematic.
 
@CodyGray (Just gunna star this for amusements sake)
anyway, off to bed with me gn all o/
 
12:35 AM
@Scratte The review-queue system (however 'broken' it may be) doesn't present "own posts" to the reviewer. However, I have come across posts that I have posted an answer to (close-vote and/or re-open). In such cases, I "Skip" on principle.
 
@AdrianMole I'd do that too. It's hard to be objective on subjective stuff :)
 
It's not so much about objectivity, per se, more about being 'fair' in the democratic system.
... not my place to close/re-open something I may get votes from.
 
@AdrianMole: I only have an idea about those queues. Doesn't fair require some level of objectiveness?
 
I'm not arguing with your point-of-view, just clarifying my own.
I may even think, on reflection, and after posting an answer, that a Q should be closed - but that action could (rightly) raise some concerns that I'm 'gaming' to prevent others from answering, for example. So I skip.
 
Sometimes I end up reviewing posts I flagged and pushed into the queue myself.
 
12:45 AM
I'm easily confused :) But doesn't closed questions get deleted after a while?
 
Confused? Spend a few days in this room, and you will be!
 
@Scratte If you share a link, yeah.
 
The auto-delete for closed/down-voted/abandoned questions (aka "Roomba") doesn't work if there's an accepted and up-voted answer.
 
@AdrianMole I'm getting less confused by being here for a while. I'm not normal :)
 
Normal != SO Users.
 
12:49 AM
@AdrianMole: Right.. so as Dharman mentioned someone would have to find the post with your answer and share the link.
 
The power of those with "delete vote" privileges is scary, to be sure! :)
 
@Scratte You can find the criteria for the Roomba here. If you're interested, I wrote a userscript, Roomba Forecaster which will tell you the status of a question wrt. the Roomba tasks.
 
@Dharman Yeah, that happens: you flag an answer as "NAA" and then, half an hour later, you see it in the LQP queue. (Gives you the chance to change your mind?)
 
@Makyen: Thank you. I read it only yesterday :( Sorry about forgetting the detail about the accepted answer.
It works :)
 
@Scratte I'm glad to hear that. :)
 
1:30 AM
 
@Makyen Am I mistaken or has there been some changes to the site since you wrote the script so it's no longer able to give information on answers?
 
@Scratte The Roomba only deletes questions. Any answers it deletes are because it deleted the question.
 
@Makyen Ok. Thanks :) Nice user guide :)
 
1:47 AM
@Scratte Thanks. The user guide needs an update. :-) The data is now horizontal just under the question title, rather than where it used to be in the sidebar. :-;
 
@Makyen: It also has a reference to Answers, but those are just details.
 
@Scratte I think you might have misunderstood what it's saying about answers. I'd suggest we move this conversation to the StackApps question for the Roomba Forecaster userscript.
 
2:13 AM
@Makyen for CV Request Generator, is there a way I can prevent it from auto-changing an instance of u to Unknown? some escaping?
(I manually changed the OP’s u there to [you])
 
That was nice of you, but really, I don't think you need to "inline" the question...
 
@CodyGray Oh OK
I do that sometimes just when it’s a short question
…but will stop doing it if it’s annoying
 
@sideshowbarker If there is a u which is either the only thing in the Markdown or separated from other things by a space character or the start/end of the string, then it won't substitute. The "escape" would be to use another type of Unicode space rather than an actual space character.
 
aha
thanks
 
I don't know if it's annoying per se, @sideshowbarker, but it doesn't seem necessary. One has to click through to the question anyway in order to close it, so they can read it at that time.
 
2:21 AM
@CodyGray There is at least one MSE moderator who refuses to delete such questions unless a comment is left.
 
@gparyani Srsly? Wow.
 
@sideshowbarker As for this one, if I wanted to say anything other than just the close reason, I'd probably say something like "question is one short run-on sentence with a link". I'd consider that better than pasting that specific question into the reason field, because the descriptor is actually easier to parse than users having to read the full question text prior to clicking through. Thus, it's probably more likely for someone to click-through. Once they click through, they're quite likely to VtC.
 
@Makyen OK yep thanks (and thanks @CodyGray too)
 
It would also work for me to say "uses txtspk".
Or "spells 'you' as 'u'".
 
2:45 AM
Waffles™
 
Damn. I don't have my cvrg and suddenly forget how to add chat tags.
Yes thanks :D
I'm on a VM right now with no user scripts :/
 
@K.Dᴀᴠɪs Oh... no.... not that. :-)
 
Yes. Amazing how User scripts run my life here :D
2
 
 
2 hours later…
4:37 AM
"MAC Addresses are NIC specific" has 35k views. Well, okay... I still don't think we need to preserve that one.
 
4:53 AM
@CodyGray How about this? It has a lot of views, a criteria to stay (as I understood from a previous discussion) and peripherally is related to programming (or its outcome?). Can it shadow the real off-topicness (I know it's not a word :)). I have voted to delete
 
I always confuse between 'historical lock' vs 'delete'.
 
Heh. Your automatically inserted close reason comment got flagged as "unfriendly or unkind", @Vega.
Yeah, I think that one is definitely very close to being on-topic.
@Shree They're basically the same thing. :-) Except that one is gone forever, and the other can never be gotten rid of.
Basically, for posts that we would normally want to delete, but we decide there's value in them that should be saved, that's when we use the historical lock.
So they're very similar in terms of when they would be used, even though they have opposite effects.
 
hmm, wait, I don't remember if there's something about flagging in the room rules - time to go check
 
5:20 AM
@CodyGray I am confused, which comment?
 
@Vega "I'm voting to close this question because..."
Those get false-positive "unfriendly or unkind" flags all the time.
 
@Vega No, this.
 
I made that comment many times before. I had no idea it sounded unfriendly. Is there a more appropriated phrasing?
 
5:23 AM
@Vega No, it was fine... I said it was a false positive.
I'm just complaining here, because I find such flags annoying.
 
Okay, thank you :)
 
Sorry for confusing.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:33 AM
Ack! I declined those spam flags because I thought they were on the question. For some reason, my browser didn't scroll to highlight the answer...
Okay... changed to "disputed" to hopefully avoid a flagger mutiny.
 
@CodyGray Isn't it new on SO? The link brings to the top of the page and the scrolling is (very) delayed
 
As in, a new bug? I'm not sure. I haven't noticed it until just now.
 
It's going on for approximately a week
 
 
1 hour later…
8:05 AM
@CodyGray some might even organize a strike to make a point ....
 
 
2 hours later…
9:47 AM
@rene is SOCVR on strike or what... I tried to follow yesterdays discussion, but without much luck in figuring that part out...
 
@DalijaPrasnikar Not striking yet. Plus there's some hoping on Discord it won't even be necessary.
 
@JohnDvorak Thanks.
 
10:02 AM
@DalijaPrasnikar we were only discussing if we wanted to join a strike and about its form. The strike itself is part of larger initiative that is steered outside of the scope of socvr. That party has to set a date. As they seemed to settle for the 24th, I felt we had to rush a bit to get your opinions. I'll evaluate with the RO's how this went.
so no, there is no strike yet but we gathered valuable feedback from all involved parties, including feedback from an SE developer.
 
10:20 AM
@rene Thanks. FWIW, I am mostly on strike as-is... I am not sure if strike can really change anything, but it can send a message... although it is questionable if anyone is listening...
 
@DalijaPrasnikar yeah, the message is the biggest problem right now, assuming we know who the receiver will be ...
5
 
 
1 hour later…
11:31 AM
 
11:52 AM
@Dharman That looks suspiciously like spam with 8 references to "Free eBooks at.."
 
@Scratte Yes, it could be. Not really sure what it is. It should be deleted as soon as possible though.
 
12:19 PM
@Vega is also plagiarized
 
@Vega tripleee edit and remove spam link , OP post again. Spam .
 
yep, that needs a mod flag.
can't raise one while my spam flag is pending ...
 
Same here. Removed and mod-flagged
 
dur
12:50 PM
Any thoughts about this question? Is it on-topic? Is the answer an answer?
 
@dur The answer is not an answer, the answer posted in the question should've been posted as the answer instead
 
dur
@NickA Thanks, I flagged the answer as "not an answer".
 
@gnat Interesting that was missed by chris considering the closure was after the comments
 
@dur I think this user is just confused about how it's suppose to work. Not sure if anyone agrees, but I'd leave a comment explaining that they should separate it into a clear question and a clear answer.
 
@NickA site opens indeed slowly (as promised in the question:), maybe Chris had no time to wait to verify correctness of the comments
 
12:59 PM
Well I won't argue with that :)
 
dur
@Scratte That would be nice.
 
@dur I am not sure about the technology though. So I can't determine if it's a programmer or a administration/configuration question/answer.
 
dur
1:21 PM
@Scratte It looks like both. I'm not familiar with
 
@dur If it can fit into a real question/answer here, then why not let them do it? With a nudge in a comment? :) I would expect it's always better to let the owner do the work.
 
dur
@Scratte Yes, I agree.
 
2:04 PM
@Machavity I don't see how it is SEO, so I removed the tag.
 
@Dharman PageSpeed Insights still complains that said fonts are not being preloaded <- that's an SEO tool problem
 
@Machavity Isn't SEO about putting the search results higher in search engines? The question seems to be about improving the performance of the website.
 
I have to agree with @Dharman, not seeing an seo issue, but a performance issue.
 
Is the strike already on or is the meeting today?
 
The meeting was yesterday. I don't think we've published the results yet.
 
2:12 PM
 
2:27 PM
@YaakovEllis I'm interested in taking a part in the research interviews.
 
Has all the discussion from the meeting been imported into SOCVR?
Postmortem vote: I'm for the strike (not that my opinion matters)
 
@S.S.Anne We leave it all in the meeting room
 
2:44 PM
@S.S.Anne you can read the whole transcript of the meeting here
 
I'm reading it. Just about to the end.
 
OK
 
chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/53527883#53527883 spam nuked already, but a mod might want to trash the account because the avatar is NSFW
 
@tripleee I've mod flagged
 
thanks
 
2:48 PM
np
problem solved
 
Fire hasn't been working for me recently. Is it because I'm using the beta version of Tampermonkey?
 
@S.S.Anne Sometimes the userscript gets corrupted in TM. Any errors in console?
 
Now it works. That's weird. Before it was dumping the usual right into chat instead of in a window.
 
3:03 PM
@NathanOliver hmmm, I still see the same profile picture
 
@tripleee After the ans was deleted, I raised a mod flag about the picture as well
I'm guessing mods are just busy/afk at the moment
 
@tripleee A message was moved so it look strange now. My comment was to machavity's reply to SD
 
or we are learning a lot about what kind of content they like to see...
 
yeah there's no hurry, just confused by the relationship of messages here
 
3:16 PM
 
@CodyGray Don't forget to block the sockmaster while you're at it
 
@yivi It's actually off-topic
 
3:33 PM
@Dharman The Needs Details Or Clarity prescribed reason is what replaced the old "Unclear what you're asking" reason, which is the appropriate one to use for non-English language posts
 
@Dharman From here: "Questions written in non-English should be closed/flagged as "Needs more details or clarity," or close voters can use the following custom close reason: "I'm voting to close this question because it is not English.""
 
@NickA Ahh yes, so both are acceptable then.
 
Yes, but needs details is fewer clicks ;)
 
3:50 PM
@Dharman And now it has 2 reopen votes (cc @yivi)
 
Amazing
And the author has rep 1, so they can't have cast one of those...
 
@NickA It received reopen votes once OP translated. I dont know why they rolled it back
 
Ah, didn't see that
 
the English version is not that hot either.
 
4:25 PM
Per the room meeting yesterday, SOCVR will participate in any network strike, if one is organized. If you have questions about the broader effort, please ping Mithical
 
5:39 PM
@tripleee the user was finally destroyed (cc @NathanOliver)
 
@TylerH o_O what happened to them?
;)
 
@TylerH Sometimes we even sleep!
@StephenKennedy I try. When you find dirty, stinkin' socks laying on the ground, it's hard to know exactly who they belong to sometimes. I sniff around for all possible culprits, and kick the dog just to be safe.
 
Woah, woah, what did Chris and Undo ever do to you?
 
Journeyman Geek, too.
My leg gets kinda tired.
 
M--
Is it okay to ask a question without limiting it to any programming language? And second, is it okay if I share a link to one of my questions, asking for insight from you guys?
 
5:54 PM
@M-- Yes, if it's a specific, practical programming question that can be answered within the limits of Stack Overflow's Q&A format. Yes, I'd say so, as long as you're not asking for someone to take any particular action on it.
 
@M-- Lots of algorithm questions don't depend on any language and they are on topic here. I don't mind asking for insights, as long as you are not asking us to act on it.
 
Good algorithm questions depend on the English language.
 
M--
@NathanOliver well it's not about algorithm, but nor it's about debugging my code.
 
M--
5:56 PM
I am fine with r, python, java, and if it's necessary C++ or C#
 
Well, you picked something in which I have no domain expertise, but that looks like a fine question, procedurally.
For a good programmer, it almost never matters what language the code snippets are in.
So the fact that you don't have a strong opinion makes good sense.
It does seem like an algorithm question, really.
 
M--
@CodyGray Do you have any suggestions to make that obvious. Feel free to edit if you wish ^__^
 
You could say something like:
2 mins ago, by M--
I am fine with r, python, java, and if it's necessary C++ or C#
That's where I got the idea, at least.
 
M--
By that, I mean the fact which I have no preference
OK :D
 
@TylerH thanks
 
6:04 PM
@M-- There is even a tag on SO
3
 
M--
Thanks @NathanOliver @CodyGray
 
I was going to point to one of my recent questions about peak-detection in real-time sinusoidal data sets that is not language-specific, but I see you've already bountied it, @M--, so I guess it stands to reason that you know about it. :-)
 
M--
@TylerH yeah, but I am not looking for pseud-code
 
I haven't had time to go back and analyze that in detail; just got too busy with other projects.
 
M--
@CodyGray yeah, that one was one hell of a Q&A
 
6:10 PM
@M-- fair enough, though typically if you are truly accepting answers in any of a half dozen languages, users ought to be able to just provide pseudo-code rather than an actual language. Otherwise it seems a bit broad.
 
All of my answers are given in a C++ inspired pseudocode.
 
M--
@TylerH I understand you point, but I just cannot think of a canonical answer for this particular question that'd be a pseud-code. :/
I made a typo, twice :|
 
 
1 hour later…
8:03 PM
Good moaning all ...
 
\o
 
@NathanOliver /o
What's the general stance on people failing to compile others source?
Do we count that as a programming issue? Or is it OK to fob them off to the maintainer of the product they're trying to build?
/me waves @Makyen
This is the post that triggered above question ...
 
8:23 PM
@tink At a minimum, I'd go with "No MCVE", because there's not enough information in the question to duplicate the problem (i.e. we have to go off-site to get the code).
 
Cheers @Makyen
 
:-)
 
Perfect example of why SMEs need to have that ability to close and reopen as “unclear”.
 
M--
What happened there? LOL
 
8:37 PM
I wish we had more actively moderating Small and Medium-sized Enterprises
 
Bhargav is like a moderating enterprise unto himself
9
 
The stake was something other than him having been the closer?
The answer (obviously) wasn’t posted until after it was reopened.
 
sigh When I opened the page there was an answer, but the post was deleted. Thought the answer was their first.
@PearlySpencer Disregard my last comment. You answered after it was opened. I had the timeline wrong
1 message moved from SOCVR /dev/null
 
Yeah, the OP confusingly deleted and undeleted after the reopen
 
@NathanOliver It seems to have left you so discombobulated that it caused you to misuse “their” for “there”
 
user8682794
@NathanOliver I answered after it was re-opened but then the OP deleted and reposted the question. Then undeleted the old one. What a mess.
 
silly OP
 
@CodyGray their their ... =}
 
They're silly to delete their post over there.
 
8:55 PM
@tink Gah! Careful, or I’ll be forced to delete your account as an obvious sock
 
makes Shog10 account
 
I’d be shocked if that didn’t already exist
 
2 x "shog" + the real "shog9" - but no "shog10" (yet).
 
I guess after what happened to Shogs 1 through 8…
 
jQuery alert $('#shog9') and it's work.
 
9:02 PM
If there were two "Shog9"s, would there even be any problems left to solve?
 
@Das_Geek Wouldn’t that create two problems?
 
ID must be unique .
 
@Jamal I guess we found out what happened to shogs 1-8. — JAL Jan 6 '17 at 1:12
 
Can a deleted account be un-deleted? Asking for a friend..
 
Not sockpuppets. I voted for that post three times using one account, carefully triggering a server error half-way through the processing of the first two votes so as to add multiple duplicate links. Hopefully, we'll have a better process for that at some point in the future. — Shog9 Jan 6 '17 at 1:59
 
9:05 PM
@Scratte No.
 
This kind of thing is why he was amazing. And why there cannot be any replacement.
And why two of them would probably create trouble
 
@Mithical Ok :) I'm hoping it's not just one button then.
 
@Scratte No, requires a minimum of 2 clicks. Unless you have a userscript, then just one, since it’s just one API endpoint.
 
What happens to pending Spam flags when the flagged post is deleted by OP? Like this one: stackoverflow.com/a/60215635/10871073 (I have a spam flag that's still marked as "pending".)
 
@AdrianMole Some hapless mod still has to look at them
 
9:11 PM
let me find the world's bluest violin
 
@AndrasDeak made out of diamonds
 
@CodyGray That was a spam account and a spam link in the post (the last SD report)
 
M--
This should be closed, No MCVE? stackoverflow.com/questions/36951265/…
 
@NathanOliver Too many spammers. Need link.
 
9:24 PM
@NathanOliver I considered that, but...the link is to a Javascript lib via CDN. That’s the worst spamming ever.
 
The second link though goes to a spammy site. Also if you look at thier about me it is very spammy
Oh, looks like only part of the second link is actually the URL. Missed that.
still spammy though
 
Is Quicken even still a thing?
 
Yep.
I actually just installed it in a small business and networked it so they could have multiple machines using it. It's pretty popular with small businesses.
 
@NathanOliver flagged as spam
 
Intuit sold Quicken a few years ago around the time they pivoted over to buy Mint (.com, not the Linux distro)
and TurboTax
 
9:28 PM
Now my bank keeps sending me emails to set up Mint. I’ve already got it installed, thank you. Cinnamon is a lovely window manager.
 
I can't imagine why anyone would want to still use it given the horrible support history
 
Oh yeah, it's intuit quickbooks now.
 
@CodyGray Aww, now I miss Cimmanon's activity in and
 
It’s always been QuickBooks. That’s a different thing from Quicken.
 
@CodyGray I see what you did there
 
9:30 PM
@Das_Geek Yeah, I’m naturally reluctant to trust the IT advice of a bank who prevents users from having strong passwords, but this time it seemed like solid advice.
 
Okay. I can see I'm confusing myself. Thankfully google sorted me out. I've worked with quickbooks, not quicken.
 
@NathanOliver That’s what I thought. QuickBooks is designed to be networked as you describe. I remember doing that back circa 1999 or 2000.
Somehow, Charli XCX and Troye Sivan omitted that from their recollection of events from the year 1999.
 
@CodyGray And Prince
 
Was “Dude, you’re getting a Dell!” from 1999, or did that not start until 2000?
 
2000
 
9:39 PM
I never got one
 
Whenever I think Dell or HP from that era, I always get reminded of those crappy BTX motherboards. Whose idea was that? "Let's take a perfectly good form factor and just...flip it :D"
 
Ugh, yeah. They kept doing that for many years afterwards, though. I remember BTX at least as late as 2008.
It was to save money. They could use the PSU fan as the case fan.
 
Huh
I guess...saves a few dollars per item?
Yeah the last I saw one was '06 I think
 
Having the graphics card face upwards is a good idea though.
 
ah crap
Saw gibberish, totally didn't read title until after flagging. oopsie
 
9:45 PM
Yeah, Intel stopped pushing it around 06, after they figured out the NetBurst (Pentium 4) architecture was a failure and went back to the P6
You no longer had to worry about your CPU melting
 
Was that when they realized more cores was better than more GHz?
I think the last BTX mobo I had came with a Core 2 Duo tho
 
Sorta. It was never about more cores. It was about shorter pipelines over the pursuit of GHz
 
Ah, that makes sense
 
NetBurst was chasing astronomically high clock speeds (targeted 10 GHz; never made it more than an inch past 3 GHz), but to do so, it had to extend the pipeline significantly. NetBurst had something like 36 stages, IIRC. That was terrible for performance on apps of the day, which were compiled for shorter pipelined CPUs, so P4 was generally slower than P3.
Even once compilers appeared on the scene with NetBurst in mind, it was still hard to generate efficient code because code that does real work tends to have to branch, and branch mispredicts were hugely expensive with NetBurst
Gotta flush the pipeline and start all over, so all those GHz speed cycles go to waste anyway
 
Wow that's a lot of stages. Don't modern CPUs have more like 12?
 
9:55 PM
Yes. The P6 has something like 12. P6 was introduced with the Pentium Pro in 95, And was refined through Pentium 2 and 3. Intel dropped it for NetBurst with P4, then dropped that as an architectural dead-end and went back to the P6 architecture for the “Core” series.
Core was based on the P3 design, not a refinement of the P4
The one good feature of the P4 microarchitecture was the trace cache, which was introduced to the P6 microarchitecture with Sandy Bridge
Pentium 4 also gave us SMT (“HyperThreading” in Intel’s marketing speak), which was also added to P6 with the “Core” chips (I forget which generation, probably Nehalem). That’s of dubious benefit, though. It was more critically needed in NetBurst where that long pipeline and frequent bubbles meant you often had a CPU’s execution units sitting idle, so why not fill it with code from another process?
Now, SMT is mostly just useful for letting the CPU’s execution engines do other work during data dependency-induced latency.
Which is something, but not groundbreaking
 
but moar threads for make my codez the faster!
 
Huh, that's all really interesting. Unfortunately, one you get too far into architecture, it descends into the realms of "strange magicks" for me. But it's still cool :D
 
other problems can cause Multiple threads
@Das_Geek The strange magicks are what makes it cool! Out of order execution? That still literally blows my mind.
 
@Das_Geek I think I understand the thing with hyperthreading, so that's not a tough cookie (I know nothing about architecture)
 
One of my biggest regrets in university was taking extra physics classes instead of VLSI design
 
10:03 PM
hey, you made the right call!
 
I mean, I don't regret taking those physics classes
 
What kind of physics was it?
 
I just really wish I could have taken the other ones, too
Quantum
 
Neat. Some solid state physics too, or just Schrödinger and friends?
 
Nothing QC, but did basic field theory and information
 
10:04 PM
ah, I see!
 
Farthest I got into solid state anything was taking a "Statics" course in the Mechanical engineering dept.
 
yeah, that's not what I had in mind :)
 
I "kinda" did solid stuff when studying interferometers and similar
The main reason I took those classes was to qualify for my research professor's class on QI, but he took the year off from teaching the first semester I was able to, then I graduated :\
 
Quantum mechanics is great for knocking undergrads out of their comfort zones and making them think
 
@Das_Geek :(
 
10:11 PM
Or for sticking into a book and making people think they can use the power of thought to control the "quantum energies"
Downside of taking those courses is now I cringe whenever I hear "quantum" used for anything
 
Right. Very useful fodder for pseudoscience
 
don't forget about the zero-point energy as an unlimited renewable resource
 
ug
 
@Das_Geek Used to make great hard drives!
 
@CodyGray You joke, but that was one of the projects my prof was working on. Quantum memory
Oh
the company, duh
 
10:13 PM
@Das_Geek No, that's totally different. Quantum was actually... yeah
Got bought out by Maxtor, and turned into garbage, bargain-bin drives.
 
Weren't they bought out again? Seagate or Hitachi or something?
 
Yeah, Seagate bought Maxtor later.
 
seagate is decent, is it not?
 
Once you fast-forward to today, there are only like 2 companies who make spinning-platter hard drives.
Eh... Seagate isn't the worst, but some of their drives have reliability problems.
Not that there are other good choices anymore.
 
@AndrasDeak I've been burned by barracuda drives so I stay away
 
10:15 PM
Barracuda is literally the only line of spinning platter drives they make...
Well, I guess they have now introduced "Firecuda" and crap, but those are the same.
 
I'm aware of Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba and Samsung
presumably some of these have the same manufacturer as background?
 
I thought I'd heard those latter two had stopped making drives. Maybe not Samsung, but definitely Toshiba.
 
my new dell latitude has a toshi hdd in it
 
WD is my go to for HDD's. Samsung for SSD's unless I don't need performance, just storage.
 
perhaps it's "take it while it lasts"
 
10:17 PM
Yeah, that's possible. Or maybe they still are making them. I'm not entirely sure.
I just remember hearing something along those lines.
 
could be, I'm not following the news at all
 
Barracuda used to be Seagate's high-end drives. Back in the day, that was their server-class SCSI drive.
 
@CodyGray Just visited the Samsung website. They no longer have "HDDs" listed in their product section
 
You had Medalist and other branding for the consumer-grade IDE drives.
 
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