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00:19
@Andreas-he-her- Will that put my profile image in there?
@JL2210 I haven't had luck with getting the profile image in; maybe I've linked to the wrong section of my profile, but at least it links to the account.
@JL2210 I've been linking to the profile tab of my user profile. Perhaps you'd try the activity tab instead (as that's where clicking on the profile image leads to), or just strip out everything but the user ID.
00:38
@HovercraftFullOfEels got another one for you if you have a moment stackoverflow.com/questions/59227826/…
@HovercraftFullOfEels NPE and/or immutability of strings
01:13
@Andreas-he-her- This question is not closed, and thus a del-pls request is invalid. If you meant something else (perhaps cv-pls), please re-request. In addition, please stay away from discussing up-, or down-votes in your requests.
@Makyen Sorry, then. I did my best, looking at socvr.org.
@Andreas-he-her- np. Making mistakes is a large part of how we learn. If there's something which would be helpful to include in our FAQ, or on socvr.org in general, that would make how we normally operate easier to understand, we'd be interested to hearing any suggestions.
@Andreas-he-her- BTW: I'd normally consider that question to be "General Computing", rather than "Blatantly off-topic".
01:28
@Makyen I might've skipped over some parts unintentionally. I'll come back later with feedback on it, if something noteworthy pops into my head.
@Makyen The question has nothing to do with programming. Shouldn't it be considered too off from the site's purpose, even though it's "General computing". There are lots of general computing questions that are simply off-topic.
@Andreas-he-her- In general, if they are questions which are about how to use a computer, then it's, usually, considered to be "general computing". Some other things also fit into that category (e.g. tech-related, generally, when not covered by some other reason). "Blatantly off-topic" is for things that are completely unrelated. For example, "what boy do I pick".
@Makyen Yeah, ok; that's a better way to put it.
Considering that the question got closed, I got a few more on my list for the same tag. Shall I post them as well?
01:46
@Andreas-he-her- That really depends on how many you're talking about. It also depends on if they meet our other requirements for posting cv-pls requests. Unfortunately, for that last question, prior to saying "please re-request" I did not check when the question was last active. That prior question was last active 6 months ago. If there was no other recent activity, then 6 months ago for last activity is too old for a cv-pls request.
If the ones you're wanting to see closed are of a similar "activity" age, then, no, you shouldn't post them as cv-pls requests. You could create a list off-site (e.g. a GitHub Gist) and ask people to take a look at the list. More convenient would be a SO search query that resulted in those you wanted closed.
@Makyen Ok;
02:11
@Minding So you know, our rules prohibit someone making a request about a question, answer, or edit in which they are "involved". Being the author of the question is one of the things that makes someone involved in the question. Thus, this request is not actually permitted here. You're welcome to ask a question about why it was closed, but an actual reopen-pls request (or a question that's just a veiled request to reopen) isn't permitted.
@Machavity The author, @Minding, of this PHP question you closed as a duplicate is wondering how the duplicate-target is related to their question.
@Makyen Okay, sorry. Thanks for helping me with the formalities.
@Minding np. There are a number of rules for this room. It's often difficult to know what they all are.
So that you know, it's quite likely that we won't get a response from Machavity for several hours. Their activity graph (on the left, below the avatar) indicates we're entering a period of the day during which Machavity has very little activity and on the day of the week which has the least activity.
hi mike-m
Hi, @mike-m
02:34
@Minding However, the general advice wrt. getting a question reopened which has been closed as a duplicate is to edit your question to clearly explain how the question is different from the duplicate-target(s). You can, and already have, pinged Machavity in a comment on your question. After that comment, Machavity edited the duplicate-target list, so please verify that you're looking at the current dup-target, not the ones which were there originally.
You might want to ping Machavity again on your question, as editing the dup-target list may have been the response to your earlier ping.
02:54
@Makyen I found one clue to my fallback / workaround question i'll try out tomorrow. My main question is based on version and changes in behaviour, so i can see the confusion, but it still remains. I'll wait, test the workaround (using mysql_native_password again) and then ping again if there is no answer here.
03:28
@Minding It's a bit confusing how anything is working with it. mysqli does not natively support caching_sha2_password
03:59
@Machavity I see some of my statements have been unclear. I said it work in CLI, by which i just meant, that it work via the mysql shell command (showing its not an mysql issue).
Also i'm not sure how phpmyadmin specifically works, but somehow it managed to log into my caching_sha2_password account. This and the fact that php7.4-mysqli seems to try to use caching_sha2_password by default and doesn't give the same error message as previous version (authentication method unknown) leads me to believe that php7.4-mysqli may despite the documention support it. (the documentation hints future support and php7.4 is relatively new).
I have edited my question since my first admittedly insufficent post adding details. The question now is: Does mysqli now suppprt caching_sha2_password? And if not: What is php7.4-mysqli trying to do and why doesn't it work with mysql_native_password like the php7.3 equivalent did? Of course I'd prefer using caching_sha2_password, but that besides the point of clarifing the validity of the question in hopes of getting it reopened. (I'll be offline now for ~10h)
 
3 hours later…
07:04
I take the above back; it may be that I just don't understand how that's a programming problem, because I'm not all that familiar with blockchain. I mean, I know what it is, but the question above presents nothing in terms of code despite it being tagged with a language. Really it's an easily searchable error message, based on what I have already found. I've retracted my flag but I don't know what else to close it as.
np, I just happened to drop in ...
Although I still don't know what to make of the question in question, or if anything should be done about it.
@Daedalus-ReinstateMonica it helps the RO team if you ping the last seen RO (or any RO for that matter) with a link to the actual request (in case it is a bit back in the transcript).
@Daedalus-ReinstateMonica there is a bitcoin.se site. I'm not familiar with their scope but if they take programming and/or protocol questions you can advice the OP to go there.
07:09
@rene Alright; and I'll try to keep that in mind. I'll check their scope before posting the comment.
 
3 hours later…
10:13
\o
Ha ha, someone is having some DV fun on my account! stackoverflow.com/users/472495/halfer?tab=reputation
@halfer the user is already warned; if serial votes don't get reversed in 24h flag one of your posts
@SamuelLiew Nice one, thanks. I will keep an eye on the script - but someone serial UV me the other day, so it all balances out :-)
11:07
@Minding That looks like a better title for the question than what you currently have. Maybe you should add that to the question. I also don't see how the duplicate target answers the question you have, but I do not know myself if anything has changed in PHP 7.4 in regards to this.
11:32
@halfer Oh, you noticed? I'll space out my votes a bit more ....
@rene Noob alert! :=]
Yeah, I'm learning the ropes here ...
rene bangs :D
I'll see if I can get Sam to message you about voting etiquette...
11:47
Cody Mod devide there work for NAA , Custom flag ?
@Shree I don't understand what you mean
Oh...are you asking if moderators divide up the flag queue, with different mods handling different types of flags? No, not really. Not in any formal way. Generally, each person will only handle one type of flag at a time, because it makes flag-handling more efficient not to switch around so much. (Which is why handling custom flags is so time-consuming.)
But in any group, there's always naturally some people who are better at different things. For example, I tend to moderate Meta more than most of the mods. Some of the folks who resigned were masters of handling sockpuppets. Sam and Andy clean out the comment flags pretty diligently. But all of us deal with NAA/VLQ and custom flags when we get a chance.
12:05
Thanks. 2 of my custom flag is still pending over 2 days just want to understand. :)
Yeah...custom flags take a long time to handle, we have fewer moderators now (between resignations and folks who have suspended their activity out of protest), and several of us who are still around are busy with other things and don't have time to handle that many flags.
2 days for a custom flag is very normal...
That kind of latency isn't really anything new.
TIL protected questions got renamed to highly active questions
@JohnDvorak Part of the new post notices that rolled out network-wide a couple of days ago. A lot of verbiage changed, but nothing else really.
Blue is the new yellow.
@CodyGray 10 days normal but recent mess take more times . so why I ask :)
I'm confused. If 10 days is normal, why are you surprised to see that your flag has been pending for 2 days?
12:12
10 is binary, not decimal
4
halfer runs away
10 days without recent mess .
I've had a lot of messes in my life within the past 10 days, so citation needed. :-)
@halfer plse come back
In all seriousness, the fact that nothing serious has happened within the past 10 days isn't enough to get the folks who are on strike to come back.
Except that year-long suggestion for "acting in bad faith" in the eyes of the suspender (that everyone else disagrees with), you mean?
12:16
Yeah...I don't know what is going on over on MSE...
:P
@halfer There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who do not. And those who didn't realize this joke was in base 3.
6
@2 mod time to ran away
@Shree Where?!
:P new room :D
12:26
Seg Fault <numeral system overload>
@Shree Speaking of custom flags...I see yours is about plagiarism. These take even longer to handle than other types of flags, at least if we take the time to do our due diligence. I would really like to have a better system implemented for this, but it's difficult. It's a hard problem to solve. I have a few ideas, but no developer time to implement solutions. And the ideas aren't even that well fleshed out.
 
1 hour later…
13:51
@Vickel I don't know if you decided that my closevote was unjustified or if you just did not check, but when you post here it's a good thing to also check recent posts and cv if needed. Preferably, you should do three closevotes for every cv-request you post.
@klutt I don't understand?
@klutt There are no obligations here. No one is obligated to vote to close if they aren't sure.
It isn't a tit-for-tat arrangement. Please don't try and make it one.
@CodyGray Sorry if I phrased it wrong. I did not intend to make it sound like an obligation, but just a small reminder of this part from the faq: "As to limiting the overall number that you post: Posting a cv-pls request is, basically, asking 4 other people to review and vote-to-close (VtC) the question. As such, the process of having cv-pls requests in SOCVR can't work unless people VtC on about 4 times as many cv-pls from other people than they post themselves, ..."
@klutt I think that is an argument for not posting too many CVs, rather than an encouragement to agree with more of other people's CVs
@halfer Yes, I can clearly see that I phrased it very wrong. I meant that you should do 3 reviews for every cv request. Not 3 closevotes for every cv request.
14:03
@klutt Fair enough. I think there is a rule about not chasing people for their opinion on a close vote though
@halfer Point taken. I go put on my shame bag on my head. :)
Regardless of your intent, perception is very important here, so it's essential that you not be seen as trying to bully or cajole people into voting on your requests.
@CodyGray Yes I know. I tried that, but obviously I failed. Sorry.
@klutt No need, just put your feet up and pour your favourite drink
Speaking of your request, @klutt, it is not obvious to me that the question lacks an MCVE. Your request claimed that the question says nothing more than "it does not work", but...that's not accurate. The question was edited (and, in fact, was edited before you posted the cv-pls).
14:09
@CodyGray My cv-request was posted after edit 2. The last edit (made by halfer) that was done after I posted the cvreq does not really change anything.
Yes, I know. And I agree that the edit by halfer doesn't change anything. Even in edit 2, though, the question contains more information that "it does not work". It's unclear to me what information you still think is missing.
At least, it wasn't obvious to me in the half-second that I spent looking at your request, and I wasn't especially motivated given that I felt your description of it was misleading or incorrect.
@CodyGray Well, yes. I agree that my description here was a little bit exaggerated, but what is clearly missing is actual and expected behavior.
@CodyGray My last comment described it pretty well: "... If the program outputs 13 / 4, what input do you give? What does the program say then? What do you expect it do to instead?"
Yeah, I can see how the question would benefit from some additional explanation. I guess what I'm saying is two things. (1) Your misrepresentation of what the question actually said is not helping to convince people to vote to close it, and almost seems in bad faith. (2) When that is combined with your subsequent attempt to motivate people to take action on your request, it leaves an even more bitter taste.
The comments you left on the question are perfectly fine.
@CodyGray Thanks for the feedback and I will think more of that in the future and I can clearly see how I could have handled this better.
I... think what the person is asking is how to ensure that their RNG always produces fractions that are evenly divisible. For example, 8/4 would be 2 (a whole number), whereas 13/4 is a fraction.
@klutt No worries. I don't actually think you have any bad intentions. Thanks for taking this under advisement.
14:19
@CodyGray That's not what I thought OP meant, and since we disagree on what OP meant, that's a good sign that the question is unclear. :)
@klutt :-) Indeed.
@CodyGray It could also mean that at least one of us should get better at reading. :D
14:49
:-)
thanks again @HovercraftFullOfEels for help with that other post
@SotiriosDelimanolis Just doing my duty
 
1 hour later…
16:16
@Vega you're evil. :D
@Cœur Haha, I know ;)
It was a blatant copy, sorry
And somehow it's was undeleted
undeleted by post owner according to timeline
16:32
Good moaning all /o ... and after 5 minutes on SO I already used up 5 close votes ... the off-topic current is strong today :(
@Cœur Has anyone mod-flagged it already?
@Dharman Not needed. Question will be closed as a dup. The answerer did reply to my comments, so he learnt his lesson.
 
2 hours later…
19:45
@Minding That actually turned into a really good question. Apparently it does support it under MySQLND, but it has some possible issues still so it just went unannounced. Relevant PHP room transcript
20:15
Anyone know the average custom mod flag time is ATM? Have a migration request in, and if it waits days, user is likely going to get discouraged
20:51
@pkamb Our room rule n°15 prevents us from posting the cv-pls for the posts where we are involved
nope :) > Being the author of a proposed duplicate-target question or an answer on the duplicate-target does not, by itself, make you "involved" in a question which you are requesting be closed as a duplicate (i.e. you can request duplicate-closure with a question you asked or answered as the duplicate-target, if that's your only involvement).
@pkamb don't do a space after the :
@pkamb The target is the other question not this one
@pkamb Given that your answer is accepted, the thing that you can do to make it permitted to post a cv-pls request about this question is to edit your answer and mark it as Community Wiki. If your answer wasn't accepted, then the other way would be to delete your answer.
21:02
That seems even worse tbh: I'd be "rewarding" myself by closing this one as a dupe of my own Q/A. Whereas in this case I'm only "harming" my own rep.
Shouldn't that rule include this situation?
@pkamb Why have you answered it in the first place if now you want to close it as a duplicate?
got my order of operations wrong 🤷‍♂️
Where should these rules be discussed? Here? Meta.SO?
My situation seems like in the "spirit of the law" that that duplicate exception is meant to OK.
@pkamb The rule is intended to cover both actual advantage and advantage that's potentially perceived by 3rd parties, while permitting users who are active in a tag to close as duplicate with the target being a question you wrote or answered. It's normal and expected that any user with a significant score in a tag, particularly low volume tags, will likely have answered at least some questions which are canonical within that tag.
It's not reasonable to prevent those users from trying to close such duplicates, just because they are active in the tag. Yes, there is possible abuse that could occur, but that would need to be seen by a pattern of behavior.
As to taking into account the type of situation which that question is in: The rule does consider this exact situation, by allowing a user to post a cv-pls if the answer is converted to Community Wiki, which clearly indicates they are divesting themselves of interest in the answer, as much as possible.
@pkamb SOCVR rules should be discussed here. If more participation is needed my people participating in the room, then it can be added as a topic for discussion in the next room meeting.
@pkamb I don't see your reasoning here. You don't have an answer on the duplicate-target. You have an answer on the duplicate.
21:15
right but I'm only "harming" my own rep by closing the question. There's no advantage to me closing it. It would be as if you couldn't add a cv-plz tag if you had commented on a post. There's no advantage to me to be perceived.
Like shouldn't a question Asker be able to poll for votes to close their own question as a dupe? No advantage is happening.
@pkamb The last time this was discussed, there were other people who brought up possible abuses for this specific situation.
@pkamb Thanks for making the change.
Thanks.
@Makyen Forgot it. ;)
21:36
@Andreas-he-her- There's no such close reason as "Lacks minimal understanding". That reason used to exist, but was explicitly removed from SO. Please use an actual close reason in your cv-pls requests.
@Andreas-he-her- I don't really see how that's a typo or syntax error. The user is asking how to configure their IDE such that those lines don't appear. While the lines may be indicating some problem in the code, the user appears to want the lines not to be displayed regardless of the existence of the problem(s). I'd say this falls more under "no MRE"/"no MCVE", because the user has not provided enough information (i.e. what extensions are installed) in order to enable duplicating the problem.
@Andreas-he-her- Note that this question was at the far end of "recent activity" wrt. having a cv-pls be reasonable. There's no explicit limit, but a month without any newer activity is a bit long for a cv-pls. It's also notable that the question would have been deleted in 5 days anyway by the Roomba, as long as it wasn't answered in that time. It will still be deleted in 5 days.
21:56
@Makyen Might've exaggerated the importance of the last sentence, then. The first sentence also made it seem as if the person didn't understand they had errors in their file.
@Makyen Ok; thought 1-2 months was within the given timeframe. The Roomba is new to me.
@Andreas-he-her- If interested, I wrote the userscript Roomba Forecaster - When will the question be Roomba'ed? If it won't, why?, which will show you the details of which Roomba tasks a question qualifies for and why it doesn't qualify for any of the three main Roomba tasks. To get more detail, you'll need to hover over the display it creates at the top of the question.
@Andreas-he-her- I agree that the user doesn't understand what's going on, but their question is clear that they just want those lines gone. It might have been possible to conversing in comments to educate the user as to why those lines were there and convince them that the line are useful.
Thanks
@Andreas-he-her-: how does that question qualify for no MRE/MCVE? It has nothing to do with helping to debug a problem in their code. Perhaps it is overly broad or unclear, but not lacking MCVE.
@Makyen Ork; I ain't making it easy for you. I'll take a look at the script later. I thought about pointing the errors in a comment, but realized there were so many issues with their code, that it seemed wasted.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Its body and title have no question.
Meta Stack Overflow am I using this room correctly? Posting links to duplicates and such. Should I instead let the queue work, and only post here after some time?
@Andreas-he-her- again-- how does that make it a "no MCVE" question?
That is not what this close reasoning is for.
22:07
@Andreas-he-her- np. I can understand that. There are many questions which would take a lot of effort to effectively correct the OP. If you don't want to do so, there's nothing wrong with that.
@HovercraftFullOfEels Sorry, then. Shall I repost it as "needs details or clarity"?
@Andreas-he-her-: The help box states: "seeks debugging help but needs more information" which is not a reason to close this question. Too Broad / Unclear is what you should be using.
Yes
Is there a tag that I can use for requesting something to be moved to another site?
@Andreas-he-her- Is there a standard migration path for it?
22:20
@Andreas-he-her- That would just be a cv-pls with an off-topic reason right?
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Yes. Not sure if it's on-topic on the other site, though.
@Andreas-he-her- In that case, you can cv-pls it specifying "Belongs on [name of site]" as the reason
Otherwise, if there's no standard migration path a diamond has to do it IIRC
@Andreas-he-her- A good heuristic for whether or not to migrate it if you're familiar with the target site is "would I be willing to upvote the question if it was on the other site instead of SO?" If so, it's a good candidate for migration - if you'd downvote or VTC it there too it should just be closed.
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I'm not known with SuperUser as a site, but I sometimes find questions that would be better at SoftwareEngineering or CodeReview, but those sites are not on the standard list.
@Andreas-he-her- In general, please try to use a link for the question, rather than a comment. We can figure it out, and the scripts do handle it, it's just easier for us. For some types of requests, it certainly matters, but for cv-pls the request really can only refer to the question.
@Andreas-he-her- Yeah, IIRC there's not a standard migration path because people were migrating a lot of questions that didn't really belong there and the target sites complained. I could be wrong though.
@Andreas-he-her- To Software Engineering and Code Review I mean.
22:28
1.3 hours left until the end of the day and I still have all my 6 delete flags unused.
@Andreas-he-her- If the site to which you feel it should be migrated is not on the standard list, then your only option is to raise a custom moderator flag and explain the situation. It's also probably a good idea to indicate that you are familiar with the destination site (i.e. you are active on the site). Moderators are generally hesitant to migrate questions, unless the question is clearly of good quality.
@Makyen Yeah, my usual rule for migration is whether or not I'd upvote it if I encountered it on the target site.
@Dharman This page should be able to resolve that problem. :-)
@Makyen Yeah; I copied the URL from the URL bar; forgot I jumped in there through a comment link. \n I've raised a few custom moderator flags those times I've been certain the question belonged on another site.
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica That's a decent rule, assuming you're active on the destination site and not just visiting it from time to time or for Hot Network questions. :-)
22:33
@Makyen True - there's always their Meta if you're unsure too. I actually did that for licensing questions at one point to make sure that Law.SE was ok with us recommending their site for licensing questions (since I'm not active there and I wasn't sure).
 
1 hour later…
23:35
Seeking advice (sorry if I'm stepping out of line here, as I'm 'involved' in the post) on this question Why doesn't this function get stuck in an infinite loop? (now closed). I posted an answer (accepted, 2+/2-) but maybe I should delete it, to help "clean-up" ops further down the line. What's the consensus? (I'm 50:50 at the moment.)
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I agree with JL2210; you shouldn't post answers on obvious duplicates that are of worse quality.
Didn't strike me as an "obvious duplicate" at the time, just closely related.
… but I'm willing to have my mind changed.
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Your answer is accepted. Thus, you can't delete it.
I wouldn't downvote answers submitted before there are indications of that the question is a duplicate. The issue now is that we can see your answer was posted before the question was closed, but we can't see when the first indication of it being a duplicate, popped in. On the other hand: the question is about such a basic part of programming, that my immediate thought when reading such questions, is that they're duplicates.
@Mayken - If OP wants to delete their question, they may not know how to go about that (first un-accept, then ping me, I guess). I'm more concerned on the impact to the OP's rep/form than on my own 'status'.
@Andreas-he-her- Actually, I linked the quoted 'dupe' in my answer (at the time of posting) so I can't plead ignorance of it.
23:48
@MikeM. Shouldn't it rather be closed as "blatantly off-topic"?
@Andreas-he-her- "blatantly off-topic" is available in the close-flag dialog, but not in the close-vote dialog. In the close-vote dialog instead of "blatantly off-topic", there is the ability to specify a custom reason.
@Makyen Ok.

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