« first day (2205 days earlier)      last day (1594 days later) » 

12:11 AM
@Machavity Up to the discretion of the moderator. There's no criteria.
Some thoughts: it requires an extra step to destroy the user, so laziness sometimes wins out and it doesn't happen. Also, destroying a user account removes the history, which makes it more difficult to track persistently bad behavior over time. However, destroying the user account can allow someone who misunderstood the purpose of the site a chance to start over fresh next time.
A user account that has no visible answers might as well not exist, so there's no particular urgency to destroying the account. All automatic blocks are going to be applied with the validation of a spam flag. Destruction of the user is not required.
(Oh, just re-read your description. Rejecting an edit as spam isn't going to do anything to the account. So...I guess the moderator didn't think that edit rose to the level that justified nuking the account or otherwise applying penalties.)
The mod who handled your flag did ban the robo-reviewers, who were serial offenders.
Also...while rolling back the incorrect edit is an understandable temptation, you should probably refrain from doing so, because it prevents a moderator from overriding the approval with a rejection. That is a better approach, because it removes the +2 rep gain from having the erroneous edit approved. But it only works if there have been no intervening edits.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Rolling back an edit doesn't remove a +2 if it exists?
 
@Chipster Not the rollback that normal users can do. Moderators and post owners can, however, reverse the decision on a suggested edit, which will remove the rep gain.
Deleting the edited post will also remove the rep gain from suggested edits.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Hmm. Noted. I know deleting did that, but didn't realize rolling back an edit didn't do that. Is there a rational as to why a rollback by non-moderators doesn't undo the +2? Aren't rollback supposed to be reserved for bad edits that arguably shouldn't have been approved in the first place?
 
Not only does rolling back not revert the rep gain, it also puts an item on the post's history that prevents the retroactive reject that does.
 
Not really, rollback is a generic feature used to reverse an edit. It existed long before suggested edits were introduced.
It doesn't really make sense in the general case to allow one random user with editing privileges to reverse a consensus by 2 reviewers by rolling back.
@Machavity The user is no longer still around. :-)
 
user10957435
12:24 AM
Could you give a example where it wouldn't make sense to revert the +2, but to roll back the edit?
 
Uh.. not off the top of my head. What I mean is more that one person who clicks the rollback button shouldn't be given more power than the 2 people who approved the edit. They're no more likely to be correct.
 
user10957435
@BaummitAugen Got you. That's also what Cody said. It makes sense, I think ;).
 
@Chipster Oh, missed that. Oops.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Fair enough. That would break the point of consensus, I guess.
 
Another thing to consider is that rollbacks work at any point in the edit history, so you might have an edit by the OP that changes the question, an edit by a helpful soul that improves the post and gets approved, and then someone roll back to the original revision. I guess in that case, the suggested edit was still helpful, even if ultimately obsolete.
 
user10957435
12:27 AM
@BaummitAugen It's all good. I appreciate both of you taking the time to help explain.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray That's also true. Another good point.
 
Frankly, this is kind of a broken system. At the very least, moderators need to have the option to retroactively reject a suggested edit, thus removing the rep gain, at any time, even if there have been intervening edits. It's clearly a nuclear option, and subject to misuse, so it makes sense for it to be mod-only. But it needs to exist.
Besides, normal users shouldn't be worrying about things like rep gain by other accounts. What they should be worrying about is content, and that is fully within their control by normal edits and rollbacks.
3
What I'm chastising Machavity about is actually my need to work around a failure/gap in the system. He shouldn't have to think about whether his rollback is going to prevent a moderator from doing their job later.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray That's I think a more important point. Only mods and CMs should probably worry about rep gain. But since we don't live in a perfect world, it doesn't hurt for us to think about it a little bit.
 
Right. Like programming, there are a fair number of leaky abstractions on this site, too.
 
1:34 AM
@CodyGray Thanks :)
 
 
1 hour later…
@HovercraftFullOfEels You must be getting tired. You're repeating yourself. :-)
 
@KenWhite: oops
@Makyen: please delete one of my duplicates, say this one. thanks
@KenWhite: don't argue with a troll or a pig. You both get covered in poop, but the pig/troll likes it
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Been there, done that. @Makyen made special T-shirts for me. :-)
 
3:47 AM
:-)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Are you referring to the condescending post?
 
@KenWhite of course
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I wouldn't worry about it. The question is closed. They will both be moved the next time the Archiver is run. If you really want one moved out, I'll do it, but, given that the question is closed, I'd normally just leave them to be moved to the Graveyard.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I seem to have (politely) put that one to bed. Did you see my last comment there?
 
@KenWhite: yes. A waste of electrons as he won't be moved or change
 
3:50 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels That's the poster's choice. At least they can't say no one tried to help them.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Mark Twain once said:"Never argue with s..de people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." :)
 
4:07 AM
Arguing with a fool only proves there are two. :P
 
user10957435
4:33 AM
"Two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity, and I am not entirely certain about the former."
 
4:54 AM
@SotiriosDelimanolis The dup-target for that question has only one other duplicate. I don't see how that qualifies as being a duplicate we should get rid of. Is there something about that specific duplicate that makes it something which should be deleted?
 
@Makyen Title of "Char result 500?" isn't enough? I can find you more duplicates.
At some point we also have to trust each other.
 
5:21 AM
@SotiriosDelimanolis I agree. When I see "unnecessary duplicate", I go to the question with the expectation that it will be an easy choice to vote to delete. I expect to significantly rely on your judgement that the duplicate is unneeded. That the duplicate is unneeded implicitly means that either there are already enough duplicates. "Unnecessary duplicate" might also mean the duplicate is bad (i.e. actually causing harm) for some other reason and is not an acceptable signpost, but that's less likely.
However, wanting to rely on your, or anyone's, judgement doesn't relieve me from the responsibility of performing at least a minimal amount of due diligence. We are each responsible for the votes we cast. We should not be just rubber stamping any of the requests in here.
3
So the first thing I check for an "unnecessary duplicate" is that the dup-target has lots of other duplicates. If it does, then the dup question would need to be a really good signpost in order to be valuable. That the dup-target didn't end up having lots of duplicates put the question out of the ballpark where I, who am not a subject matter expert in , can reasonably make a decision about voting to delete, based on the criteria of the duplicate being "unnecessary".
That the dup-target has so few other duplicates, particularly when I go into it expecting that there will be many, makes me bring it up to ask you why that specific question should be deleted. I'm ask because a major portion of what I expected, based on the request, wasn't the case. Thus, I wanted to know if there was some other reason I should be voting to delete.
 
6:24 AM
@Vega What is "s..de"? Is that a typo or an abbreviation? As far as I know, the quote is "stupid" people, but there's no "de" in "stupid".
 
@CodyGray in French it's "stupide", I put an unnecessary e :(
 
Ah, okay. Thanks for explaining!
 
 
3 hours later…
 
 
4 hours later…
12:52 PM
 
user10957435
Morning
 
^ trying to figure out if that embedded link is spam or not
probably not
 
I'm going to go with not spam
 
'morning :)
 
1:41 PM
@LynnCrumbling I don't think so. Low rep user, but several years registered
 
1:57 PM
@Makyen I can tell you in some cases I've stopped making an effort at finding extra dupes when I know they are there and I'm planning to vote to delete.
 
I keep having to remind myself that in URRS, 2 is the new 4
2
 
In USSR, 4 is the new 2 ;)
 
@treyBake Good song
 
How many moderators did we actually lose in the end?
 
2:10 PM
@Das_Geek tis a great song, great album too :)
 
I feel like my plagiarism flags are being addressed way slower.
 
there are still 21 listed on the /users/moderators page
I know BoltClock is currently inactive, so that leaves 20
 
@treyBake Was that the White Album?
 
@Das_Geek yeah :)
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I thnk all flags are being handled slower. We're down quite a few mods
 
2:17 PM
Yeah, need to get you guys elected
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica In Soviet Russia, Questions close you...
4
 
having mental images of the scene from Spies Like Us where they get detained
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I'd vote for engineer. Engineer is credit to team
 
2:35 PM
@LynnCrumbling such a good movie
 
love it. two awesome actors
cameos too :)
 
3:05 PM
 
M--
3:29 PM
What is (are) the appropriate reason(s) to close this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/51333835/… Is it off-site resources or TB?
 
@M-- TB I'd say (and vote :p)
 
This room is going to be confusing when a new wave of folks who haven't seen the old close messages come. I can see it already: "where's the 'too broad' option? Do you mean 'needs more focus'?".
2
 
@Das_Geek we'll cross that bridge when we get there :-)
 
M--
@Das_Geek Yes, it's "Needs more focus" now. SO is moving from criticism (e.g. Duplicate of ..., Too broad or Unclear) to constructive comments (Does this answer, Needs focus or Needs clarity) :D
 
3:54 PM
@M-- Oh I definitely agree with the concept, I was just making a joke since most requests here follow the old format :)
@TylerH Or as my friend used to say during our coding projects: "We'll burn that bridge when we get there"
I prefer simply: s/.*/🔥/g
2
 
@Das_Geek heh
@M-- Personally when I vote something as a duplicate that isn't mjolnir'd by me I always immediately edit my comment to say "Duplicate of" instead of the new "Does this answer your question?" because the new verbiage isn't even right (how can a question answer a question? What if it's a problem statement and not even a question?), and sends the wrong signal to the OP ("let's talk about this") rather than something useful like "please accept this suggested duplicate" or something...
10
I will continue to do so until such time as SO edits the verbiage to something more accurate/helpful
 
4:11 PM
@TylerH Will the auto-upvote still trigger if that's edited?
 
@SecretAgentMan people think adding a language-shorthand to their title allows them to use non-English? Incredible
 
@Das_Geek I believe so, yes
 
4:35 PM
@Adriaan (fr) Oui, oui
 
@SecretAgentMan oh hon hon hon
 
M--
@TylerH I'm in this with you, my comment was sarcastic ;)
 
4:52 PM
 
5:02 PM
@Machavity don't think so, link goes to dead page - think is just example url
 
@treyBake It copied content from a previous answer and then shoved a link at the end. Maybe the URL is a typo, but it's still a spam attempt
 
mod-flagged to take a look at the user doing the self-vandalism
 
5:17 PM
@Machavity ah I missed that! At least it's a human-spammer and not a bot, that's a step... down for them xD
 
5:36 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis By my count, 4 moderators resigned: Robert Harvey, Ed Cottrell, George Stocker, and Jon Clements. Yvette Colomb also stepped down, but I'd consider that to be unrelated. Other moderators have significantly reduced their activity, including BoltClock and Bhargav Rao. (Although Bhargav will come in periodically and clean out the flag queue, as he's been doing for years as an active mod.)
I am crazy busy with work in Real Life™, so I don't have as much time as I would like to handle flags or do other moderator-related activity.
Regarding plagiarism flags, these currently just go into the "other" view, which consists of all custom moderator flags. Handling these takes approximately forever, since you can't just get into the "zone" as you can with e.g. NAA flags. I rarely have the time to burn though these, and I suspect others have the same issues, so that's why flags are remaining pending for longer.
 
@CodyGray <3
 
Regarding the possibility of upcoming moderator elections, I don't have any inside information on that. Sam Liew and others have suggested holding elections, but it's been decided to hold off at least until January before doing that. SO never holds elections during the holiday season.
 
@CodyGray always assumed there was a Brad Larson queue where the plagiarism went and got annihilated
@CodyGray I assume they don't do a pre-election check for candidates like the CMs did on some smaller sites?
 
5:52 PM
Vote me! Imma delete all your posts.
 
Believe it or not, that might be a winning slogan ;)
 
@rene There kinda used to be. Brad is having the same issue as me, with regards to being busy with a job and Real Life™, so others have had to pick up the slack.
@rene Dunno. Maybe? There hasn't really been a need to do so in the past, but things might be different now. That may well be the first step.
 
@CodyGray Given that the issue that drove some mods away remains unresolved (and probably will remain so), it might be harder to recruit going forward
 
@Machavity I somewhat doubt it. It will certainly change the pool of candidates, but I have a feeling that it won't eliminate them. There will be folks nominating themselves who don't care about any of that. There have been such nominations in past elections, too.
 
^
I'd bet Evan Caroll will nominate themselves again
... I think that'd be the first time I say something like this, but if that person is elected moderator, I really quit.
 
6:01 PM
That's your #1 worst candidate? Your imagination isn't very good. :-)
 
Morning all
/o
 
o]
 
Heh. Hi rene, what was that?
 
6:11 PM
ō
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier There was that Iranian guy who ran because "he had turned of age". That's the kind of candidate that scares me
@tink The Dutch armpit scratch
 
ŌÓÒÖØ
lol @Machavity ... I was thinking yoga
 
@Machavity Huh. I'd run myself at that rate.
 
Thankfully he failed to advance out of the primary
 
6:17 PM
I read that as "escaping" the primary for some reason
 
6:28 PM
I hate it that I open a question and it says it is off-topic, but I have no idea why until I read the question and the answers and sometimes even all of the comments to realize it was a typo.
 
@JL2210 Excellent example of the 3-vote threshold working on its own, without needing to involve SOCVR! This is why, ideally, we can start reserving this room for dealing with older questions, rather than recent ones that everyone is already looking at.
 
@CodyGray That's what I'm hoping for. If the tags can start keeping up, we can start letting older questions get closed and actually start moving somewhere instead of just treading water.
 
@Machavity I'm old enough to drive, smoke, drink, stay up late, vote Brexit for sure I have an age where I can handle some flags?
 
6:45 PM
@rene Depends on if you're using metric years or not
 
Are we allowed to permalink comments? I found something that's just terrible that I want to share with everybody.
 
@JL2210 Not really the place for that. We don't need to point out bad users
 
The title was "I am making an os, and ran into an error. please help! I have no clue"
 
The title blacklist should have triggered on "error"; I thought that word was blacklisted. High odds the original title contained the word "problem", which is definitely blacklisted. And definitely not any more precise than "error".
Also, pro tip, @JL2210: if you want to share a comment without giving the impression of picking on a particular user, you can just quote the comment itself. That allows us to discuss the content, without discussing the user.
 
I don't find your comment useful, @JL2210. It appears to let the user off the hook for having written a poor title by blaming the title blacklist, but that wasn't to blame in this case. The title is poor because it is not descriptive of the problem, not because they had to choose a synonym or intentionally misspell a blacklisted word. As such, I've deleted your comment.
@rene Meta questions are like fine wine. Or stinky cheese. I forget which.
 
You remember on tasting ...
 
@CodyGray Stinky cheese can age quite well, imo. See Roquefort blue cheese. Maybe "aged like milk" is a better expression?
 
@Das_Geek No, that was the point. Both of those things age well, but one is more of an acquired taste than the other.
 
7:10 PM
@CodyGray Ah, fair. I guess my reasoning was clouded by the fact that of those two, I only like the cheese
 
Heh. I am more of a craft beer guy myself, but I can appreciate a good wine.
 
I guess I've never had good wine, but at most I've tolerated the stuff
Craft beer, eh? My condolences for your wallet
 
After enough wine, it doesn't matter how it aged
 
@rene I don't know. Even while inebriated, vinegar is still not great
 
You could literally replace "wine" with "Meta question(s)" in all of those replies, without losing any meaning.
2
@Das_Geek Vinegar isn't alcohol, so... Definitely not great.
 
7:13 PM
@CodyGray Yes but vinegar is made from wine
You ferment the alcohols even further into acetic acids
So yeah, it definitely matters how wine aged haha
 
@CodyGray New rule: You must be 21 to post in Meta
 
there go a few mods...
 
user10957435
Heh. I am more of a craft beer guy myself, but I can appreciate a good meta question.

I guess I've never had good meta question, but at most I've tolerated the stuff

After enough meta questions, it doesn't matter how it aged

Yes but vinegar is made from meta questions.

Just seeing how that'd look...
 
Lol at that last one
Guess I know what userscript I'll work on next
 
user10957435
@Das_Geek lol.
 
7:38 PM
 
7:48 PM
@JL2210 A RO asked you not to post that link. Please refrain from posting links to bad user activity. We have strict rules about that. Ignoring a RO is grounds for kicking (forced removal from the room)
 
@Machavity Shame there's not some visual way to easily distinguish ROs without having to click to a separate page
 
@Das_Geek There is: italicized usernames on the left
2
 
@TylerH No. Way
Holy moly, that blew my mind
 
:-)
 
And mods have blue usernames steps behind a curtain to avoid exploding brain
 
7:57 PM
💥🧠💥
From now on, any time I think of a good UI/UX idea, I'll run it by @TylerH to see if it hasn't already been implemented
 
good idea ;-)
Another informal way you can tell is if you see someone post a message like "→ 2 messages moved to SOCVR Request Graveyard"
Moving messages out of the room to somewhere else is a RO-only (or mods can do it, too) privilege
 
@TylerH I've always thought those arrows were the wrong way 'round.
 
@CodyGray You're just too used to C-style output: <<
 
C++-style. But yes.
 
Note: If you're running the URRS, your options may be set such that moderators are indicated with a ♦, rather than being blue. Depending on how your options are set, usernames being blue may indicate you've previously visited the user's chat profile page.
 
8:04 PM
@CodyGray Ah, right. Standard library and all that. I haven't used plain C in a few years, and wont for another few
 
→ implies moving a message in, whereas ← implies moving a message out.
@Das_Geek fprintf(stdout, "%d messages moved to %s", 2, "SOCVR Request Graveyard"); might be a little less clear... Dunno. I could be sold.
 
@CodyGray Well yeah. You shouldn't hardcode it like that.
fprintf(stdout, "%d messages moved to %s", num_msgs, room_name);
That brings me back to my first CS class. We had to store everything, and I do mean everything, in global variables. Wanted to print out a nice box around the table you output to console? Guess you're gonna need a string top_box = "+-----------------+" then.
 
how 'bout that, I posted an answer that wasn't just a CW from fixing someone else's comment or self-answer-in-a-question
must be the Christmas spirit...
 
@Machavity I wasn't moderating the user. I was just saying that the title word filter was bad. The only thing I saw in the FAQ about this was oneboxing images, not comments.
 
@JL2210 It's not the fact that it was a comment. We generally allow onebox comments (they're not as obtrusive in small doses)
You were implicitly calling out the user's behavior by linking the comment. We want to avoid the appearance that users are being called out
 
8:26 PM
If a (seemingly) unrelated question has an answer that solves the problem, should you VTC as a dupe? Or will people be confused?
(Can’t post a link to the exact question due to having a stake in the post)
 
@Machavity Oh, sorry. Didn't think about that before linking it. I'll be more careful in the future.
 
@JL2210 Thanks
 
8:50 PM
@pkamb Welcome to SOCVR. We don't allow requests on questions where you are involved. If you feel you were targeted, please start a post on Meta and include your reasons
 
user10957435
To be even more confusing, C++ also has the -> syntax, which has nothing to do with input or output at all...
 
@Chipster Thanks for pointing that out
 
user10957435
Anytime :D
 
@halfer It has a Meta associated with it?
 
@Machavity No, sorry - I mean it should have been posted on Meta
I am recommending immediate deletion because it is a bit flamey (as well as being off-topic)
 
9:05 PM
> Treat such messages from new users that appear to be requests about a post the new user is involved with as if the request was just asking for explanation, information, and/or suggestions for how to improve the user's question, answer, or edit.

> ROs should explain to the user that, in the future, actual requests for action on posts the user is involved with are not permitted, but that discussions about their posts are permitted.
fair enough. Clarification then: self-Answering a question about a common typo/error so as to provide SEO for that same mistake in the future. IMO that should itself not be closed as a "typo". Would like any thoughts - Thanks.
 
@pkamb It looks like this message needs a bit of context - unless there is something you have said above that has scrolled off already, starting with a quote is a bit confusing
 
sure, it's 10 posts or so ^^^^. - > Welcome to SOCVR. We don't allow requests on questions where you are involved. If you feel you were targeted, please start a post on Meta and include your reasons
 
Righto
 
@pkamb NB: that the question was closed by the community at large, not by folks here or in response to a request here. As for whether it should be closed, I kind of agree that it appears to be close-worthy under the second reason enumerated in the prescribed close reason commonly shortened to "the typo reason": While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers.
In other words, if someone is aware of the Range feature in Swift, they probably know the syntax. Further, does Swift have validators or linters or some other sort of feature/service available to check for syntax/illegal stuff?
 
9:17 PM
Well it does, but not good ones in this case. That's why I want to SEO it. IMO it's a potential common mistake/ interesting case due to the change in syntax between [0,1] and no brackets 0...1
 
@halfer That should have been migrated, not closed… Handled now.
 
@CodyGray Fair enough. My decision was deliberate though - not seeking discussion, too ranty
@pkamb The quote blocks make that question a bit confusing - are they the error response to each piece of code?
 
Yes
 
In general it is good to say "And here is the error I received" (paragraph text) and then list the errors (code block)
 
M--
9:21 PM
I don't understand why this has been deleted. Is it a spam? stackoverflow.com/a/54814661/6461462
 
@pkamb Don’t focus exclusively on the word “typo” there. The rest of the close reason explains the real motivation: was resolved in a way unlikely to be helpful to future readers. So, this is a judgment call, and the close voters were within their rights. No evidence of anyone targeting you or treating you unfairly.
(Well, one clueless fellow did raise a mod flag complaining that you posted a question just to answer it, but we declined that. Flags like that get raised more often than one would think.)
That said, I see your point about the question being useful. I’ve gone ahead and reopened.
@halfer We have canonicals on Meta to handle that. :-) This way, we don’t give the impression of suppressing dissent.
@pkamb Please do make the clarifying edits surrounding those error messages that @halfer suggested, though.
@M-- Already brought up on Meta. I don’t have a good answer to it, though. The mod who removed the link is a different mod than the one who flagged it as spam. I don’t follow the motivation, really, but haven’t dug into it enough to override someone else’s decision.
@M-- By the way—grammar pet peeve of mine—spam is a mass noun, so should never be preceded by the indefinite article “a”. You would just say “is this spam?”, not “is this a spam?”
 
@CodyGray thanks. I brought up "targeted" due to the comment "Is this really worth a self-answered question?" from an extremely high-rep user that seemed to set the stage for the Close and Downvotes. IMO that goes against the "Answer your own question, QA-style" ethos of the site, but what can you do.
 
Listen to the glasses. He be smart.
11
 
@pkamb I read the comment. That user didn’t cast a close vote, and I don’t see that he did anything wrong. It’s OK to express that kind of an opinion respectfully in a comment.
2
 
M--
9:33 PM
@CodyGray Thanks for the link and the note.
 
@CodyGray - Ever thought of running for mod on the "English Language & Usage" SE site? (Noticed that you are a user there.)
 
Any Android experts here? Is this on topic here? stackoverflow.com/q/30188094/1839439
 
@pkamb While self-answering/canonical are important and valuable, they’re subject to the same scrutiny as any other question. If it’s not a useful contribution to our knowledge base, then it probably doesn’t have justification to stand. I trust a subject matter expert to have an opinion on that that is worth considering, at least.
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica You mean because there aren’t enough flags on SO? Or perhaps because I have too much free time?
3
 
That way you can spam tips about using the word "spam", all while handling spam flags over a plate of fried spam
 
9:38 PM
If I ran for moderator on all sites where I knew something about the topic, I’d be a busy man indeed. My formal degrees are in history and microbiology, so that’s two SE sites right there.
I also cooked once.
 
@CodyGray How'd that adventure go?
 
Pretty good, all things considered. Better than the first time I tried running some Python code. (snirk!)
 
@CodyGray Any chronological or geographical foci for your history degree?
 
@Das_Geek probably
 
How do I downvote a chat message? :P
 
9:46 PM
@CodyGray You still have time to chat in this room, clearly too much free time :)
 
@CodyGray You have infinite patience - dealing with newbies who are looking to cause emotional injury is not my forte at the moment :=)
 
@Das_Geek US and European, primarily. Political, cultural, intellectual, and legal history. That’s what I taught later also. But I took a bunch of breadth courses while in college, too, including Latin American and Middle East. East Asia is one of the few areas where I know almost nothing of the history.
@halfer Hah! That I have infinite patience is something nobody has ever said or thought about me, ever.
 
@CodyGray They did today :-p
Maybe I am not feeling as welcoming as I usually am
 
Odds are they’re wrong...
 
@CodyGray What is legal history?
 
9:52 PM
@CodyGray Maybe actually you just wanted to expose an angry newbie to the fires of Meta, giggle
 
@Dharman What it sounds like: History of the law. How it changes over time, and how it reflects social/cultural mores. The effect it has on people who live under it. A classic example near and dear to my heart is the persecution of witches and heretics in Medieval Europe.
@halfer They say fires are cleansing… You have spotted my cynical motives.
 
It is if you don't respond to the notification.
 
:48033816 Yes. For chat, inbox notifications operate on a lag. Idea is, if you’re actively chatting in the room, there’s no point in cluttering up your global inbox. But if you don’t see it in chat, it will eventually end up in your global inbox.
 
sorry, I shouldn't have removed that. I found a meta post, which is what I should have done from the start.
 
9:57 PM
oops, I just inadvertantly got a "visit SO meta for 30 consecutive days" badge...
 
Well, or you could ask in here, with hopes of getting your own personal Meta-length answer from me or Makyen :-)
 
it's mostly weird because I did see the messages, and I was in this chatroom. But that doesn't clear it I guess.
 
I did start one, but deleted it after seeing other responses and that a Meta was found. :-)
 
@robsiemb It could be worse. You could have a Fanatic badge on MSO...
 
9:59 PM
@pkamb You have to click on the green notification icon that comes up by the input box. If you don't chat figures you haven't seen it and in about 10 minutes you'll get an inbox notification.
 
@pkamb You have to either post a message in the room, through the normal send, not through some other method (i.e. not a userscript), or click on the message notification badge that appears on the top-right of your avatar, which is to the left of the chat input area.
 
@CodyGray That would be a bad sign. I suspect I got it because I kept forwarding people to various meta articles though rather than pure meta obsession.
 
@Dharman How is that a duplicate of the question you proposed? It’s fine to recommend not using deprecated functions, but in order to be a duplicate, it has to solve the problem.
 
10:14 PM
@CodyGray How can a piece of code work if the functions do not exist anymore?
This also applies the other way, how can we reproduce this problem if this extension hasn't been around for years.
 
@Dharman Ah, okay. I read “deprecated” and “shouldn’t” as advisory. That the functions don’t exist anymore is an entirely different thing. I understand now how that is a duplicate.
@Dharman Not sure I buy that one. You repro it by setting up the right environment. Same way you answer a FORTRAN 77 question.
 
@CodyGray This was just an advisory message when SO was first created. At this point of time no supported version has any of these functions available.
@CodyGray I agree, but in PHP the problem are the copy-pasters. They find some old code from PHP 4 and try to execute it under PHP 7 and learn that it doesn't work for some reason.
 
PHP: Paste-Happy Programming
 
Basically to provide a viable solution one would have to rewrite the whole code from scratch for OP.
 
@Dharman I have detected your bait, and I have declined to take it :)
 
10:21 PM
@robsiemb I didn't set any bait/trap. What do you mean?
 
@Dharman Seemed like you were baiting some PHP hate :)
 
@Dharman Because PHP doesn’t value backwards compatibility? Or were you perhaps thinking of a different reason?
 
No... the hate just tags along
@CodyGray PHP values backwards compatibility too much. I would like to see some of the old stuff gone. The language has evolved. Sometimes you must remove things which are harmful.
 
@robsiemb After getting a silver PHP badge like Dharman has, I would not blame anyone if subtle notes of hatred leaked out when they talked about it
@Dharman But muh webpage from 2001 that still needs to use split()!
 
The same question goes for Python and its print statement, right?
 
10:26 PM
@Dharman Tbf, that transition was a major pain for many and will probably never be over.
 
@Das_Geek The things is that even in 2001 you probably didn't need to use it.
 
Not the print one, that was easy to fix with software, but some other breaking changes from 2 to 3.
 
Yeah, especially with some places that can't bring in new software easily (if at all). We'll likely see questions on it for years to come
 
@BaummitAugen And we have canonicals for that too. I wrote a nice answer not so long ago helping in the upgrade process. People who start learning PHP should not have this problem though!
 
Text processing opens up so many cans of worms. That people just naively assume they can split a string, or index into it, or whatever, blithely ignoring the possibility of multi-code points.
 
10:29 PM
@Dharman Should. But then, we still have people learning C++ on a compiler that's older than the first official standard... :|
 
Can confirm. Learned C/C++ with gcc/g++
 
Most of the version of gcc are fairly recent. ;)
I was talking about the glorious TurboC++ 3
 
@BaummitAugen I should clarify: gcc with std=c99
But yeah even gcc is almost a decade after Turbo
 
@Das_Geek Could be worse; if you have C code and support MSVC, you are stuck with C90.
 
D:
Thank goodness I develop for real operating systems. edit: /s
 
10:35 PM
@BaummitAugen This answer - only 3 hours old - 'recommends' using Turbo-C++! :-)
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Ugh. facepalm
Some things never die.
 
I remember Turbo C++ !
 
@BaummitAugen ...methinks there be downvotes coming.
 
How else do you guys propose that I compile my C++ code for DOS?
 
@CodyGray Last time I tried anything of that sort, I went for DJGPP.
 
10:38 PM
… try DOS++
 
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica What is that?
Watcom is my actual answer, but now I'm curious about these suggestions...
 
Someone need to write it (in C++, I guess).
 
Oh. You want me to write a new operating system first, before I can compile any code? Well, I'll get right on that as soon as I finish designing my own CPU.
 
See you in a few months, then
 
Ambitious, but if that should somehow work, it would be way more fun than using TurboC++ I'd imagine.
 
10:42 PM
We'll call it TurboC-PU
 
Perfect. And it will only run programs compiled by Turbo C++ that include conio.h.
I will advertise it in comments on SO, and I will sell millions.
 
Sounds like a winner
 
The thing about that header is the way most folks pronounce it - strange effect on my (then) Spanish colleagues.
 
"con" is "with" in Spanish. Not sure what "io" might sound like.
 
10:47 PM
...try coño (oops - posted a bad word).
 
@CodyGray You could just grab some open-source CPU modules for FPGAs here and skip right to OS development, which you can get a guide for here. I expect great things :)
 
In all seriousness, I have been wanting to learn FPGA programming, so...that would be a fun and useful project.
 
@Das_Geek For once, duckduckgo wins lol. =D
 
If only I had time
 
@CodyGray It's a pain in the tuchus at first, but it's alright once you've shifted your design procedures a bit
 
10:51 PM
@Das_Geek What do you mean? Shifted in what way? Do you just mean you have to think completely differently than when doing "normal" systems programming?
 
@CodyGray In that your code is implicitly parallel between "code blocks" which represent actual hardware.
You have to approach whatever problem you're faced with as an electrical engineer rather than a programmer
 
@Das_Geek Right, okay. FPGA modules, aka logic gates.
 
It's far, far easier to draw up a circuit diagram first before even touching any Verilog
@CodyGray Yeah, exactly. Try writing a for-loop in circuit
Some compilers are smart enough to translate higher-level constructs into their proper hardware-level components
But very little actual progress has been made on that front. It's a massive undertaking
 
Yeah, that's the part that freaks me out. Not the part about stuff executing in parallel, but the part where I have to think like an EE. I have no idea how people manage to do CPU-like things with an FPGA. I can totally understand the simple stuff, but not once you get into making decisions.
How do you make the code conditional? You can't branch. You don't have if statements.
 
I mean you can, but you have to do it old-school: set up a memory bank with your code, and jump to virtual addresses
 
10:57 PM
I have a fair amount of practice eliminating conditional branches when writing optimized CPU code, and it's kind of fun to do those transformations of conditionals into binary logic, but it's not always possible. And so what then? I always just kind of assumed that was stuff that you couldn't do with an FPGA, but apparently you can.
 
Make your comparisons with registers, which output 1 or 0, then use that to construct some memory address thing
Yeah honestly I don't really know. I don't have that much experience. Most I've done is built on top of a pre-existing Z80 module to make a GameBoy Emulator
@CodyGray Well you can do system-on-a-chip solutions, which integrate low-power CPUs to run "proper" code, which then interfaces with the FPGA hardware
Most FPGA dev boards will include that
I had to do an AES encrypt/decrypt for a class, so the FPGA did the math part, while the CPU ran the C code to do file and terminal I/O
It was basically an ASIC at that point
 
11:34 PM
@Das_Geek I’ve used these several times. Intel’s Arria platform in particular. I had subcontractors that did the electrical design and FPGA programming. I wrote the code for the microcontroller. So that’s kind of why I’d like to learn more about it myself. I’m actually pushing as much as possible in electronics design to replace FPGA with just an MCU. But I’m still curious about FPGA work.
 
@CodyGray What's the point of removing the FPGA? To avoid hiring subcontractors?
 
@Das_Geek Partially, yes. We have the in-house expertise for modifying and improving the MCU code (me). Also, reducing cost. We need MCU for data analysis anyway, so if we can control sampling with it, that’s best. (I work for a company that designs sensor data acquisition and analytics systems, primarily for aerospace.)
 
Question: is self-deletion of a post (followed by self-undeletion) a viable way to clear any outstanding flags on it?
 
Depends on the type of flags. Not spam/rude or custom mod flags.
 
Okay. I was wondering, since I had flagged a post as NAA, that flag was marked helpful but the post was still up. Checked the timeline and the user had deleted-undeleted about 30 mins after I flagged, then proceeded to taunt me with comments. Wouldn't have thought that method was possible
@CodyGray That and MCUs are probably more resistant to radiation-induced bit-flips than FPGA gates, which is definitely a concern at higher altitudes
 
11:45 PM
@Das_Geek Yup, deletion will auto-validate NAA and VLQ flags, for obvious reasons. Undeletion by post author is an edge case.
Reflag with a custom mod flag, since you can’t reflag as NAA, and also so you can explain why you’re doing this
 
Sure thing. Appreciate the guidance
 
Sure. I forgot to mention: after you raise that custom mod flag, wait 6-8 weeks for one of us lazy mods to handle it :-)
 
Jokes aside, my mod flag response time has been pretty darn good. no complaints from me
I think the most I've had a mod flag stand is just over a day
This is especially impressive given the goings-on of late
@CodyGray I really want to eventually do aerospace; I intend to get my advanced degree in AE, and hopefully transfer to the photonics division of my company and get to work on the super-fun stuff
 
@Das_Geek I desperately need a software engineer or a hardware engineer… We do ultrasonics, not photonics (although we do have one research project integrating with fiber optics). Not sure where you’re based.
 
@CodyGray Out of Chicago area. I don't really have any experience with ultrasonics, but hey: waves are waves.
 

« first day (2205 days earlier)      last day (1594 days later) »