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2 hours later…
02:18
@robsiemb Why didn't you review this yourself?
02:37
@Makyen no votes left when the cv-pls came in and I saw it.
@robsiemb I assume you mean suggested edit reviews...
@Mayken yes. I did leave a comment on the post because the suggester did comment originally, but their comment has since been deleted. (Since presumably they deleted their comment, I've removed mine now)
@robsiemb Ahh... that explains the comment. Thanks. :-)
@robsiemb BTW: it still needs a review.
@Makyen personally, IMHO I think processing the suggested edits queue and "edits of posts you happen to run across" should be different quotas. The number of times even in the brief period I've been above 2k that I've seen a post that I could fix with an edit but I'm blocked because someone else has the same pending edit I can't approve... sigh.
I also happen to think that "Edit yourself" should be an ok response to triage, instead of only "requires editing"
@robsiemb Yes, it would be nice if the actions in all the queues used separate pools of actions. Just wait until 10k where you go from 30 or 40 "recommend deletion" responses down to 5 "delete" responses. :-(
02:47
@Makyen I mean, I've come up to 3k reasonably fast (2 months) but 10k feels like a looooong way away. Far enough that I've switched to tracking my first tag badge instead :)
@robsiemb Triage was intended to be for really quick sorting of questions. Obviously, it didn't end up that way, particularly with the complete failure to properly explain what "requires editing" means, and the multi-year long delay in just changing some text to explain it better.
@Makyen Having seen the other side of it in "help and improvement" its fair to say the text changes didn't help enough.
@robsiemb As long as you keep answering, you'll get there. I know it feels like a long way. How far it ends up being depends on a lot of factors.
@Makyen Indeed. Not really worried about it at this point -- answering questions has been a good way to train myself on technologies different from ones I've used before.
@robsiemb Of course the changes didn't fix it. SO spent years training people to do it wrong, and still haven't made the text strongly and explicitly explain the correct way to do it. The text is better (i.e. it doesn't say the *wrong way), but SO still didn't make it clear. If they want people to do it right, then the UI needs to emphasize what the right way is sufficiently to jog people out of their trained habits. That's really just basic UI/UX design.
@robsiemb That's a good way to use SO.
@robsiemb You can always force an edit of your own. My answer here describes four ways of doing so.
03:13
@Makyen oh wow. I had no idea you could force your way around it -- I always get stuck at the edit link not working. Also sort of broken on SE's part.
@robsiemb Well, they want the normal action to be reviewing the suggested edit, which is actually reasonable under most conditions. OTOH, they do allow a way around it from the post history page. The other methods just make it more convenient.
@Makyen Sure, I'd always review first if I have the review quota remaining -- but they could just change the link at that point (or allow you to go over for "found" reviews, to a limited extent). Anyway, I've installed that script now :)
:-)
@Makyen What is the result of forcing the edit for the proposer? Is it just a Community reject of the proposed edit?
03:29
@robsiemb It is rejected by Community♦ as an edit conflict. You can see an example here. Under some conditions, I'll first review an edit to reject it with a custom reason, then force the edit. I'll do it in that order because it gives the person who suggested the edit some information as to why the edit was rejected. I've had people say they appreciate my doing it that way.
On the occasions when I've just gone straight for reject and edit or directly for a forced edit (neither provide any information to the user who suggested the edit as to what was wrong) there has been a time or two when I was asked by the person who suggested the edit why the edit was rejected. Having the custom text helps explain that without needing to get into a discussion.
@Makyen Indeed, the default "reject and edit" reason is... "unfriendly or unkind" IMHO :)
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
07:35
@Shree Doesn't this look a bit spammy? I'm not sure. Why don't OP just use 'example.com' ?
@Selaron I'm guessing they just didn't think about obscuring it; certainly hiding the real domain could be problematic for some types of questions (though probably not this one per se)
the reason it came up multiple times is they edited the question to improve the formatting, and received an answer
@Selaron ^ :)
ok thx :)
07:50
@tripleee FWIW I think that Magneto currency rate question is "problem that can no-longer be reproduced". I think their entire code is the important statement given in the question, and from the comments it turned out the website they were using was temporarily down
@DavidW hmmm yeah, probably a better close reason
No-one's disputing that it needs to go though :)
Am I just being unsympathetic or is this a thing that should go away? I can't decide what close reason though: stackoverflow.com/questions/59046142/…
It's literally a thing they could try in 2 seconds and find the answer.
it doesn't break any rule, we (sometimes grudglingly) tolerate even basic questions
Fair enough, my downvote will have to do. Maybe I'll be less grumpy after some coffee :)
08:12
@DaveyDaveDave Looks like someone found a matching duplicate. Without duplicate this question looks basic but ok to me - I wasn't the one who upvoted tho.
@IljaEverilä that's also unclear -- using raw SQL from SQLAlchemy would make sense, but the other way around ...?
08:45
@tripleee I suppose that's an artifact of the language barrier.
09:03
What determines if a user profile gets nuked when the post is removed for spam? It sometimes seems to happen automatically, and sometimes not. I don't think moderator intervention is the difference (but could be wrong)
@DavidW it generally is.
@MadaraUchiha Are you saying that it is up to the mods to decide whether to nuke spammy account or not?
@Dharman Correct.
Nuking accounts is not an automatic process.
@MadaraUchiha Ah fair enough. I'd probably seen the posts and profiles disappear at the same time (with the posts deleted by "community" and not a moderator) and assumed it was linked. When in reality it was just a mod acting at a very similar time
@MadaraUchiha How are we supposed to inform mods that an account should also be nuked. If we cast 6 flags the account stays.
09:08
@DavidW When an account is nuked (destroyed, rather than deleted), all of their posts get nuked by Community as well.
Ah gotcha I follow
@Dharman Just cast your flags normally, even if the account stays, they're almost never able to post anything else, and the spam flags feed into the antispam system all the same.
@MadaraUchiha I see, but sometimes the account is rude or abusive in itself and it is still publicly visible. e.g. stackoverflow.com/…
@Dharman Flag one of their posts with a custom flag. If they have no posts, flag one of your own with a custom flag (make sure to link to their account)
@MadaraUchiha I have done that in the past, but I was hoping there would be a better way.
09:19
@Dharman I'm a frayed knot.
09:43
@VadimKotov might be spam; those are movie names
@Dharman there is no direct need to kill an account; some mods seem to think it's easier to keep it and then nuke any new posts going forward
@VadimKotov absolutely spam
@Adriaan Just let it go ...
10:00
^or off-site req. actually is probs more fitting
@treyBake Ditch PHP and choose a real language! Runs away whooping
6
@Adriaan I C we're gonna have problems here :p
we R
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
15:01
AFAIK, my daily CV limit is 50: When the CVQ is busy (as often), I get to do up to 40 reviews - most of which get a confirmatory "Close" from me or a "Skip" (especially dupes in subjects I don't know). However, if I've also been doing Triage and the First Posts reviews the same day, I could quite easily run out of votes before I run out of reviews. So: Does the CV limit go up with rep (+10 every 1,000, as with others)? Is there any other way to get more CVs when one's limit has expired?
… Been looking for a Meta post on limits, but can't find it!
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I don't believe they increase, no.
... so, would a minor change of policy help reduce the burgeoning CVQ?
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica No, queue limits are fixed.
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I do feel like this has been discussed on meta, but that'd be the place to discuss it....
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica 40 for SO, 20 for all other SE sites
15:03
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica The only change currently in the works (at least, we think it's in the works) is Shog's 3-CV to close a post experiment which went very well. If and when that will be implemented, no clue
... maybe a misunderstanding? Not asking for the 40 review limit to go up, but the daily CV limit (esp if they're used in other queues).
@Adriaan Yeah, I remember that - mixed reception, IIRC.
@Machavity Is the queue size for close votes actually fixed, or is it just always over the threshold to get a bonus 20 votes (like suggested edits and reopen clearly do)? At 7k+ I wouldn't be surprised if the threshold was just effectively always triggered.
@robsiemb It's fixed. 40 in the CVQ, 50 overall
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica they did a test with this as well a few years back; 100CVs instead of 50 pp. Problem was that this just meant putting more strain on a few people, instead of making the entire process easier. Idea has been ditched iirc
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica The only "mixed" reception there was that the inconclusve close reasons (i.e. 3 different reasons chosen) went up by a huge amount (1000% iirc), otherwise it was a resounding success and accepted by nearly all on meta as such, apart from that note on inconclusive CVs
@Adriaan Yeah - it certainly reduced latency and seemed to shorten to queue. But it also had (possibly undesirable) side-effects, like the one you cited.
Only 2 CVs left, now! :(
16:00
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica we have asked for this. As Adriaan mentioned, there was a test and IIRC it was a resounding success, but they decided to not do anything about it because reasons
(bad reasons, to be clear)
@TylerH @PearlySpencer I moved this as the dupe target was deleted, so it's no longer a valid request.
@DaveyDaveDave This question is now closed as a duplicate. If it's something you think could be answered with two seconds of searching, the chances are very high that the question is a duplicate of another here on Stack Overflow.
@TylerH wait, we are talking about different tests, right? The 3-cv-to-close test recently conducted was a success, but the 100-cvs-per-preson test conducted last year (or longer ago?) was less of a success because it required individuals to do more actions, instead of making those actions more effective. That experiment was status-deferred right?
@Adriaan We're talking about the 100 CV test, which I consider to have been a resounding success
I was able to close more questions because of it
and I was not burnt out in the slightest
user8682794
16:21
@TylerH Thank you for letting me know
btw @Machavity It's "Boba" not "Bobba" scifi.stackexchange.com/a/223536/23886
@TylerH @Adriaan Maybe not an automatic 100 CVs but (as with flags, IIRC), give 50 (say) when the first rep-threshold is crossed, then +10 for each 1000 rep, up to a max of 100?
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica yeah, it'd be nice
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica flags scale with net-helpful flags (1 per 10 IIRC), not with rep.
@robsiemb OK, so it's not flags, but there is something that goes up with +1000 rep, I believe?
16:29
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica delete votes (5 at 10k + 1 per 1k thereafter)
… and nobody would be obliged to use their full quota each day (though some may feel the need...)
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Really, I just wish that there were enough to complete the queues that are assigned. Its easy to run out between the close queue and first posts or triage.
@robsiemb I wouldn't know about delete votes (not 10K … yet) but I'm sure there's something else???
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica its on the privileges page for 10k, I don't know of others (and I'm nowhere near 10k :)
@robsiemb … which brings us back full circle to my opening line!
16:37
@TylerH I retconned it. It is the Lucasfilm way...
@Machavity btw is there a 4th episode out yet?
@TylerH No. I have the app on my phone and it pings me anytime one comes out
if not, can you maybe edit the question to add "(the eponymous Mandalorian)" after the first instance of the full name in the question?
I'm assuming that OP got the full name from some Disney website or something
but he never mentions who that person is anywhere in the Q and the episodes (thus far) never mention the Mando by name
oh wait, he already did it
I need to refresh more
@robsiemb Yes, if you're active in the review queues that's one of the things that's quite noticeable when you hit 3k rep. Instead of up to 100 flags per day that are spread out across all flagable actions in the queues and on-site, including close-flags, you now have a max of 50 close-votes to spend everywhere. The total number of actions just in the queues, excluding any that you might use organically on question pages, is considerably more than enough to consume all your close-votes.
2
As a result, the overall number of reviews you can perform in a day is limited by your close-votes, rather than the number of permitted reviews, or your available flags.
Note: You actually have up to 200 flags per day, as you get up to 100 on posts and 100 on comments (i.e. the post and comment flags are separate pools, which each have the same maximum per day).
17:46
Morning all ... /o
I know nothing about unity3d, but this question, to me, doesn't look like a programming question? stackoverflow.com/questions/59055532/…
I'm very tempted to CV and point them at superuser
18:11
… ++i instead of ++j
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Are you requesting something there?
Sorry - run out of CVs.
I mean, what do you want done? There's no request there, just a statement and a link
How do I get the "cv-pls" icon thing?
... or is it a tag?
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica its a tag
18:15
[tag:cv-pls] ->
4
OK - Every day's a schoolday!
Am I a dick if I reject an edit? :|
Why would you think that, if it's a bad edit?
18:19
`stackoverflow.com/questions/59057103/… the edit is... weak. A lot of things wrong with this. Not sure if reject and edit or reject and let simmer :shrug:
If you want to ask again you can as well
@Compass Not really assuming it is a bad edit and you don't write a super rude custom reason (though I also find many of the non-custom reasons to be pretty rude too...)
@Compass I don't see a pending edit there -- maybe the 1 minute old edit was a reject-and-edit?
@Compass do you mean rollback instead of reject? That edit doesn't look like it needs to be rolled back, but maybe you see something I do not?
the original edit was literally just fixing the typo in the title
As a suggested edit
18:24
@Compass yeah so they did a reject and edit (or forced an edit see here) most likely. I guess that answers your original question :)
@Machavity Thanks (again) for educating me on SOCVR protocol!
19:16
@Machavity yeah, it seems kind of odd to refer to him by name as it's not official and just unnecessarily confusing since he is only ever called something else in the show
Here's a post I came across in the "Reopen" review: Update data in sql based on server response Looks like a pretty rude response: check the "Edit Note" ("F*** the police"). Is it a delete? Or a flag?
... Link to the Review Queue entry.
19:58
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Left closed and it has 2 delete votes now
Good! (Is it OK for me to post vague/uncertain requests like that?)
Asking honest questions is always OK. Just don't do it to get around the rules
You could also tag it
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Seems to be a one-time only slip of the keyboard. I'd just ignore it and do whatever you'd do otherwise. OK to ask AFAIC
@Gert Slip of the keyboard? Or do you mean the incorrect uppercase "U?" :)
20:05
Yeah, so careless...
20:15
ugh, why isn't Helvetica free -_-
@eyllanesc Just turned into no repro.
@GertArnold I understood that no MCVE equals no repro.
No repro is a different closure reason than no MCVE
but a question off-topic for one reason changing to be off-topic for another is not a big deal... it's still off-topic
2
user10957435
21:08
So, I'm starting to learn about Roomba. I'm wondering, if I delete my answer to this question, I think it will qualify for Roomba at the 365 day mark. However, if I keep it, it won't qualify for Roomba even though its only answer is negative. Is that correct? Roomba only takes place if there are no answers at all, not no positive answers, correct?
@Chipster That's not quite true. It is true for questions which are closed as a duplicate, which that one is. If you're asking specifically about the 365-day Roomba task, then, yes, that one doesn't delete anything that has an answer.
@Chipster If interested, I wrote the userscript Roomba Forecaster - When will the question be Roomba'ed? If it won't, why?, which will show you the details of which Roomba tasks a question qualifies for and why it doesn't qualify for any of the three main Roomba tasks. To get more detail, you'll need to hover over the display that's at the top of the question.
user10957435
@Makyen So you're saying that in general negative questions with only negative answers will still qualify for Roomba at some point, unless it's a duplicate?
user10957435
@Makyen Yeah. I'm just wary of installing a browser extension like GreaseMonkey because I haven't heard of it. Otherwise I'd be more open to userscripts I think.
@Chipster Tampermonkey/Greasemonkey are just utilities to conditionally run Javascript on web pages. They're only as dangerous as the scripts you install. And while Makyen is very scary, his scripts are probably fine :)
@Chipster Greasemonkey, which is Firefox only, is open source. Unfortunately, I recommend against using it, because when Greasemonkey, which used to be way better, was re-written to work with Firefox using WebExtensions, they made several compatibility breaking choices. Thus, using it will result in a bad user experience due to a large number of userscripts not working (e.g. about 40 of the userscripts I use for Stack Exchange are incompatible with Greasemonkey).
The generally recommended ones are Tampermonkey (the most popular, but not open source), and Violentmonkey, which is open source.
21:24
Oh nice, hadn't heard of Violentmonkey. Great info as always @Makyen
Also....40? And that's just the number of the incompatible ones?
@Chipster The requirements for the different Roomba tasks are detailed here. If a question is closed, and not as a duplicate, then it will, usually, qualify if not positively scored and has no positively scored answers. Please see the linked page for explicit details.
user10957435
@Makyen I'm actually on Chrome, so that shows how much I know about Greasemonkey ;). Does Tampermonkey or Violentmonkey work on Chrome?
@Chipster Both do, yes
user10957435
@Makyen I was using the list from meta, which looks identical. So then I'm still confused: neither seem to say anything about duplicates.
@Das_Geek Sorry, that's a typo. It should have been 30, not 40. But, yes, that's just the incompatible ones.
user10957435
21:28
Oh, wait. The 9 day one...
... yep. You got it.
user10957435
Ah. Thanks.

And I might look into userscripts. The Roomba one seems really handy.
@Chipster I'd find SE/SO much less convenient to use if I couldn't run userscripts.
user10957435
I must just be used to it...
@Chipster I also feel the same way about the *monkey user scripts and browser extensions in general. But given the amount of repetition etc in reviewing, commenting, etc, it seems like they may be a necessary evil in this case.
21:34
Commenting especially. It's very nice not to have to type effectively the same comment again and again each day
Otherwise a heatmap of my keyboard would just be all on the keys it takes to spell "not an answer"
21:57
@Chipster I can understand being concerned about browser extensions and userscripts from a security POV. In Firefox, all browser extensions used to be manually and programmatically checked by Mozilla nominated reviewers prior to being listed on AMO. That changed more than a year ago (2 years?) such that all are now only run against programmatic checks, with a limited number manually checked. In other words, I don't consider Firefox extensions secure unless I check them myself.
However, there are ones which I've used without manually checking them myself. That list includes the three *monkey extensions which have been mentioned. I've looked at some of their code, but definitely not all of it for any of the three *monkey extensions on either Firefox or Chrome.
Chrome permits extensions to pull in code from 3rd party servers into the security context of the extension, so I always consider a Chrome extension insecure unless I've manually checked it.
Unlike Chrome, Mozilla requires all code which is used by extensions to be included in the extension download. It's all JavaScript/CSS/HTML in text format, so you can review it yourself. Very rarely an extension also requires the installation of an actual OS-level program with which the extension communicates. However, that has to be done through a separate install process not controlled by AMO, and you have to make security choices for that install like any other OS-level install.
Personally, I, usually, at least look through the source code for most of the extensions I install and all the userscripts. However, userscripts are given a much more limited set of functionality which could be used to compromise your security, but it's definitely something about which you should be aware/concerned.
22:32
@StephenRauch OP has added code. Does it constitute an MCVE now?
23:36
Why would I get a reopen review for a post a diamond-mod put on hold 1 minute ago? (No edits, no other reopen flags). Is there some "check on recently closed items" in the reopen queue? (this post: stackoverflow.com/q/750786/3399890)
@robsiemb Yes, a question can be automatically moved to the reopen queue, without an edit or reopen vote. Please see this answer for the minimal information that's available as to the criteria for that happening (third bullet point). I'm not surprised to see a question with 112k views, a score >110, and a top answer score >125 qualifying for that.
@Makyen thank you!

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