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user10957435
12:08 AM
@JK. Note: You can use [tag:cv-pls] to create a tag.
 
dbc
I'm proposing to close the above question because, despite being old, it attracted a new answer.
 
@dbc Thank you for telling us. A new answer is certainly something that makes the post "active" and thus qualified for a cv-pls. Another time, while we appreciate the information, it's not something you need to go out of your way to tell us, as the "Active" date in the question header will indicate that the question was "active" when a new answer was added, or the question or an answer was edited.
@JK. It would be helpful for you to re-send this message with the text [tag:cv-pls]. Unfortunately, the search feature of SE chat isn't that robust. Our review script relies on SE Chat search to show people what requests have not yet been completed. Thus, if this request is around long enough to scroll off of the main chat page, it is unlikely to be seen by people who are looking for cv-pls requests to handle. Thus, overall, it's beneficial if you resend the request with [tag:cv-pls].
 
JK.
12:39 AM
sorry I messed up tags first time I tried
 
@JK. It's no problem. It's really a limitation in the scripts we use as a result of using SE Chat search, not an issue with how you formatted your cv-pls request. The intent is to move the script away from that dependency, but that hasn't happened yet. Thanks for reposting the request.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:59 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels Looks like an editor transcribed the image for the OP.
 
4:00 AM
@Machavity Deletion appears to be what the user wants. Should we really give it to them?
 
@Makyen Is it worth letting them repeatedly vandalize it with rude posts?
 
Yes, nuke it. They aren't stopping.
 
@Machavity I'm undecided. In general, stopping persistent vandalism is what moderators and suspensions are for. Even though it's a duplicate, is it fair to the users who answered the question that the question OP gets the question deleted just because the question OP acts offensively (after getting answers), particularly when the system specifically doesn't permit the question OP to delete the question normally?
 
4:16 AM
they are still at it
 
@Nkosi Once a user gets to this point, they usually don't stop until they are made to stop by a moderator.
 
I mod flagged.
 
That's good. I did so too. The more the merrier. :-; As I understand it, more mod-flags increase the priority in the queue.
 
@Makyen That's a fair point, though the moderator could always restore the question afterwards. I'm kinda thinking it would be better to stop it now, doing what we can, rather than have that sitting on the site any longer than it needs to.
Cody's on it.
 
@MikeM. (general case assumed:) That also is a reasonable point. I guess it depends on how fast a moderator responds and/or if we think that the user will vandalize other questions/answers (i.e. do they have any other Q&A), or if they will post additional Q or A in order to have a platform for their R/A content.
 
4:36 AM
@Makyen account got nuked.
 
Yeah, that... You guys would have had my blessing to just nuke that as rude/abusive.
I get Makyen's concern. I wrestle with the same thing.
I decided to destroy the account instead of destroying the question. :-)
 
:)
sounds legit.
 
I was pleased with the approach.
Don't really have the energy to handle a bunch of flags tonight. Bhargav cleaned out the queue yesterday, but it's back up again. The flaggers have been busy...
 
You can clear the queue how many times you like, but the flags will never leave. <guitar riff>
 
Unless you ban all the flaggers.
 
4:50 AM
Welcome to the hotel moderator......
 
@CodyGray That's a reasonable way to handle it. The user was clearly not planning to stop.
 
@Makyen I was hoping that it would leave the user name intact, in case the asker was trying to hide some crime, like cheating. But I forgot that deleting an account always anonymizes the posts first.
That's the primary reason I'm concerned about giving vandals what they want in terms of deleting questions.
 
5:10 AM
@CodyGray I agree that's a significant concern. It always amazes me how willing a significant number of people are to cheat, even when they get to the level of taking computer courses (i.e. relatively late in their education). OTOH, I understand the culture around cheating is significantly different in other areas of the world.
Although, I must admit that a considerable portion of my personal objection is that I just don't like being manipulated into doing what the OP wants, particularly when what they want is something the system specifically doesn't permit the OP to do on their own.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Well we can't have the flag queue empty, so we decided to work overtime just for you ;)
 
@Makyen Well, yeah. We share the same psychology, it seems.
@snakecharmerb Doesn't seem like general computing. They're calling an API using Python. However, it is off-topic. You just chose the wrong reason.
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Took the words out of my mouth. I think it's more of a too broad/no mcve myself, but that's just me...
 
5:32 AM
@CodyGray It wasn't obvious to me that they were using python at all, but anyway, happy it's been closed - thanks!
 
@snakecharmerb Yeah, fair enough. I didn't actually follow the links. I was making some assumptions based on the tags. After looking more carefully, I don't see the Python connection, either. But still, it's using an API, which is probably programming-related. Definitely not general computing. Not criticizing here, just trying to make suggestions on how to improve your judgment on which close reason to pick.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:29 AM
 
 
4 hours later…
11:39 AM
^ oh wait that's spam
 
12:18 PM
Plop peeps
 
12:36 PM
The night will be long i.stack.imgur.com/HZz5T.png
 
1:01 PM
@Kyll ..and what does it see :P
lol
 
An uninterrupted flow of Qs is what it sees
 
'fternoon
 
1:18 PM
@CodyGray Works for me. Thanks for handling
 
1:36 PM
Hi, today during review, I voted to delete an answer that is factually 100% incorrect. But now I remember that I'm not supposed to vote to delete based on the accuracy of a post and my expert knowledge on it. I can't retract a delete vote, but can I prevent a mod from later banning me from review if noticed?
Like, making apologies, etc?
 
I doubt you'll get a review ban. I'd just move on and try to remember delete votes aren't for incorrect answers.
I've seen a decent number of incorrect answers get deleted anyways from the queue so I doubt it'll be noticed.
 
@Vickel I'm not sure that's a dupe
@Cœur Cody Gray forgives your sins. As penance, you must now clear the Help and Improvement queue.
5
 
@Machavity I'm on it.
 
@Cœur I don't think anyone would ban you for this. If the answer was wrong anyway then no harm done. If you are talking about the low quality queue, the judgement is based on the quality and sometimes low quality answers are also wrong.
 
2:02 PM
@Dharman Rob would ban for that: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/366130/…
 
@Cœur I haven't seen that meta post yet, but now that I read it I agree in this case the answer should not be deleted. I would not agree with the other reviewers and would click Looks OK.
I was talking about answers like "Try this: <code>" where the answer is both low quality and wrong.
If the answerer did his best to answer the question, but it is still wrong then unfortunately there is no flag for this.
 
@Dharman To help for the context of my question, the "I-feel-guilty-for-voting-to-delete" was this review: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/24656904
 
@Cœur That is low quality in my judgement and apparently 3 other people agree
 
@Dharman Well, I can't see how someone would ever write a high quality 100% incorrect answer.
 
The question is 7 years old and if anyone is going to answer this they should put more effort in than just 3 lines of code and a word "simple" describing it. I would not hesitate here for long before pressing recommend deletion.
 
2:16 PM
Good point.
 
2:38 PM
Looks to be the same domain as mentioned in the images posted earlier
 
@Adriaan No. If you look at the images that is the site the OP is building.
 
^
 
Sorry request should have been Duplicate.
 
3:02 PM
@Machavity why are you not sure? OP asks for "How can i remove index.php from url in codeingnator", which is answered in the linked Q/A. OP also asks where to "add" the .htaccess file which is also treated in one of the answer (step2- of the one with 127 UV)
@Machavity I missread, sorry, forget above message
 
@Shree I don't think that's a duplicate, unless there's something in the other question about applying the solutions to a PDF form. Arguably too broad, but if closed as a duplicate I'd be tempted to re-open it.
 
@Vickel Would you like to bin that CV?
 
@Machavity the other one ("How to add custom alias in select query codeigniter?"), yes, I'm retracting my cv-pls
 
thanks
 
3:29 PM
@PaulRoub Some time mistake happen sorry .Thanks for heads up. @Machavity bin this request please. I am confuse with and chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/47917483#47917483
 
@Shree Done
 
Thanks a lot
 
3:50 PM
I'm currently listening to a band called Rainbow Kitten Surprise. Great name.
 
I did not expect the band to look the way they do.
 
Even better: "When People Were Shorter and Lived Near the Water"
Imagine announcing that show
 
"If these trees could talk" <- one of my favourites, also in music
 
Something like 50% of the world's population still lives within 100km of an ocean or sea coastline
 
@TylerH I was born below sealevel
 
3:59 PM
@Adriaan neat
are there any side effects to that?
 
@TylerH Yea, we have the on-average tallest population of the world. Something to do with keeping our heads above water
 
heh
I'm guessing you're Dutch, then
 
Quite, yes
 
Oh my. Not just Dutch, but quite Dutch! :-D
 
 
1 hour later…
5:59 PM
This looks off-topic, but I'm not sure which close-reason (serverfault or superuser): Internet through a thin connection
 
6:41 PM
@Cœur superuser.com would be my best bet. Off-topic on SO for sure
I guess too localized would be a good option here ...
 
7:15 PM
@halfer Dalija Prasnikar was faster than you to give the link. ;)
 
Heh
Ninja'd again
 
Ron
7:39 PM
You can't exit the Vim editor and Chrome eats your bookmarks for lunch.
 
7:51 PM
@ThomasSchremser be careful in posting repeated cv-pls for the same user. This is not well accepted here. See FAQ about targeting users.
 
8:12 PM
@Steve sorry, I didn't notice that both posts were from the same user; I found both of them in the First Posts Queue earlier today and was now just going through my flags
 
@ThomasSchremser yeah, let's not do two in a row ...
 
I'll do better next time, promised
 
@ThomasSchremser we all do better next time ;)
 
@ThomasSchremser youtube.com/watch?v=MaLSdYNqGuQ Shame!
 
@ThomasSchremser I know, I have done the same in the past
 
8:34 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis I see how one might consider this a bad question, but is it really off-topic to ask about a specific concern regarding programming tool?
 
9:03 PM
@Cœur There’s nothing you can do about this. Just don’t make any other mistakes, and you won’t get review banned. (Actually, that’s very unlikely to lead to a ban, since the automated system is not going to consider it a wrong decision.)
In the future, please note that as a 20k+ trusted user, you are welcome to vote to delete answers that you think are actively harming the site, whether due to being wrong or for any other reason. Just do this outside of the review queues. Technical correctness isn’t what you are reviewing for, but it’s a valid reason to take action on a post in other contexts.
What Rob is saying is, if we start deleting answers in /review because of technical inaccuracy, it makes reviewing that much more inconsistent, and thus a worse experience than it already is. Review isn’t supposed to require technical expertise; I should be able to review Python or Ruby questions.
But as a trusted user, and a C++ expert, I’m definitely going to be downvoting and possibly even voting to delete answers as I come across them based on their technical merits, using my best judgment. Nothing whatsoever wrong with that. If anyone else tells you different, please tell them to come to me.
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica That strikes me as an awfully silly reason to close a question. Post an answer explaining how/why it is impossible, and maybe giving alternative solutions involving relaxation of requirements.
 
o/ @CodyGray How goes the grind
 
@CodyGray Do note that goes against what is stated in the priveledges for 20K users
 
@Das_Geek it is Friday, so that’s a good thing
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Argh. Really?
 
@CodyGray Oh yeah, i had almost forgotten. And I actually get to leave early: only 8 hours today :D
 
9:22 PM
Woot. 1.5 hours to go and I don't go back to work until December 2
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Nah. What I’m describing falls under this cited case: “The answer is extremely low quality: There is little to no scope for improvement”
Don’t delete it if you can edit it to be useful. But if it’s of irredeemably low quality, then purging it is reasonable.
With the caveat that sometimes downvoted wrong answers can still be useful, to serve as a caution
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica I work a bit over the next couple weeks, unfortunately. Trying to carry over as many PTO hours as I can to next year
 
I'm good with that
 
I’ll also mention here that Meta is a bit of an exception. You’re abusing your delete privileges if you’re deleting an answer because you disagree with it. Mods have undeleted Sara Chipps’s answer far too many times. I’m very close to issuing suspensions to users who vote to delete that answer.
 
Yeah, I don't like that on meta.
 
9:26 PM
You’re welcome to downvote it; I certainly have. But deleting it is not only counter-productive, it’s a blatant abuse of privileges.
 
Meta allows opinions, so there really is no "wrong" opinion.
 
There are definitely wrong opinions. If you’re unsure whether your opinion is wrong, just ask me. :-) But having a wrong opinion is a downvote reason, not a justification to delete.
 
I really don’t want to lock controversial answers as a way to protect them from deletion, because that also protects them from voting, which I think is wholly inappropriate.
So unless and until we get more granular locks, I have no choice but to focus on the users who are casting the votes. Dreading that conversation a bit, though. “I disagree with what you are saying, but I will defend your right to say it” is a hard thing to explain...
 
I never understood why they never implemented different lock controls. It would make your lives easier if you could just lock comments out or just lock edits out or just lock deleting out.
 
9:32 PM
Absolutely. But it’s more complicated on the back end, as I understand it. Locks were built as a very blunt instrument. I hear that some improvements are coming down the pike in this area, but not quite as granular as I might like.
 
Down the pike? Pikes Peak? ;)
 
That’s the expression. Pike is short for turnpike.
I guess it’s a relatively obscure idiom these days?
People say “pipe” now, but that’s not the original form of the expression.
 
I actually had to Google what Turnpike is
 
I have been told by coworkers that, every time they talk to me, they learn a new word.
So, you’re welcome :-)
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Not to those of us who feel the same way, but to other people I recon it would.
 
9:38 PM
Yeah, but simply because I have that diamond, I’m going to get accused of being a company shill. The irony is palpable, but lost on most users. I empathize with their frustration.
 
@CodyGray Cool. Didn't know that. Always just heard, down the pipe, or in the pipeline
 
In the pipeline is a different metaphor....
> "Mr. Speaker, I smell a rat. I see him floating in the air. But mark me, sir, I will nip him in the bud."
3
Mixing metaphors can be dangerous.
 
But a great band name
 
user10957435
Well, to be fair, I didn't fully realize the difference between moderators and company employees at first. I'd imagine there are a lot of people like me with the same confusion. In fact, I'm not fully sure I understand the line in terms of difference between responsibilities and "moderation powers," if you will, that employees have vs. moderators.
 
Not all employees carry diamonds, but those who do have all the same power as moderators. The primary difference is that employees are representatives of the company, whereas moderators are elected by and representatives of the larger community.
 
user10957435
9:45 PM
Like Shog9 is a moderator and representative of the company, yes?
 
The only place it gets complicated is that some CMs (community managers, who are employees) have additional privileges above and beyond what diamond moderators have, allowing them to do things like see more detailed voting histories.
No, Shog is an employee of Stack Overflow. He’s a community manager (CM), with those expanded privileges I mentioned.
 
I long assumed Shog was just a floating head, nothing more
2
 
He has the power to delete high-rep accounts that regular diamond mods can’t delete, he can invalidate votes, he could migrate questions older than 60 days, etc. Real corner cases. When we need stuff like that, a diamond mod will escalate to a CM, like Shog, animuson, Jon Ericson, Tim Post, Catija, etc.
@rene Apparently he has both corporeal and non-corporeal forms.
 
Yes, he is amazing in any form
 
Fun fact: even CMs can’t cancel a question/answer ban for an individual account (although they could turn the feature off globally for a site)
 
9:53 PM
That's a scary situation, straight-up global disable
 
They’re not enabled on all SE sites. Only the higher-traffic ones that have quality problems.
Sites that get 1-2 questions per week are easier to moderate. Or so my colleagues tell me. Plenty of sites on the SE network are significantly less active than our Meta site.
 
It is certainly off for MSE. I can still post there ...
 
Interesting. Wouldn't have thought that. Wonder how other features vary from site to site
 
I like how this is both declined and completed
 
@Das_Geek A lot of privs need less rep on the smaller sites.
 
user10957435
10:00 PM
@CodyGray It's weird hearing you talk about having to escalate something. I always just assumed moderators had the highest power on the site. Obviously I was wrong.
 
@Das_Geek here is a somewhat incomplete list: meta.stackexchange.com/a/160292/158100
 
user10957435
 
Now for something completely different. How often do you judge post based on the title? I have been doing some analysis around poor quality questions for some time and I came up with a heuristic of my own to measure the badness score of a title. so.dharman.net/titles
I often find myself reading a cv-pls request title here and without opening the post I can usually tell something about the questions quality.
 
@Dharman Quite a bit. If I see a badly formatted title for example then normally the post will also be badly formatted.
 
10:06 PM
@Dharman Yeah, literally all the time. This was discussed here a few days ago.
 
Then I missed that conversation probably
 
You shouldn’t judge a post solely by its title, but is is naturally a great heuristic.
 
user10957435
@Dharman I don't get it. What does this chart mean? Specifically, what is the right column?
 
@Chipster Rep threshold at which you gain that privilege
 
My algorithm's measure of the badness of the title. The higher the number the worse the title is.
 
user10957435
10:08 PM
Anyway, cv-pls requests aside: if I find them out in the wild, it's a combination of title and snippet.
 
A bad title may just mean that the post needs to be edited, for example. It might not need to be closed. But still, a post with a bad title does require attention.
 
Take for example this one. The title is just the tags repeated
 
user10957435
@Dharman What is "bad," though? How closely it matches the problem, or how awful of an idea does it sound like just from the title alone? Something else?
 
user10957435
@Dharman Oh, yuk.
 
@Chipster How much useful information it conveys. If you remove the tags from that title then there is no title left, which means that this title was really bad.
 
user10957435
10:11 PM
@Dharman True, because you could get that from the tags anyway.
 
Same goes for titles like: "How do I fix my error", which I think are now banned.
 
user10957435
Side note, that awful title still managed to get an up-vote somehow. So clearly not everybody judges by title alone.
 
The question itself may not actually be that bad. It just needs editing to fix the title, inline the images, and remove fluff.
 
user10957435
So, in other words, judging by title alone doesn't convey quality...?
 
I agree, many questions do need only that. Was this the reason this question wasn't answered in 7 years or is it because the question is just unanswerable?
 
10:16 PM
I've edited that question to remove fluff and changed the title, btw
 
It is a very good indicator of quality. That question, as presented, is not of high quality. However, it can be easily improved by anyone by editing. So titles are not an indication that the question is irredemable.
 
it may be easier to parse now
 
@TylerH The images don't open for me
 
unfortunately the images are somewhat crucial but appear to be dead (hard to tell for me at work)
 
user10957435
@Dharman The question appears to suffer from an OP that didn't get back right away, and only did to explain they solved the problem themselves. By that time, why answer?
 
10:18 PM
yeah, based on OP's comment, I would vote to close as no repro or no MCVE ...if I weren't out of CVs...
 
It is rather difficult to judge whether a question is lacking an MCVE without having at least a little bit of domain knowledge.
Based on the discussion, I went ahead and closed this.
I’m not out of close votes yet :-)
7
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica what does saying "edited" do to Smokey? I don't see that in its list of commands.
 
10:34 PM
@Chipster It doesn't do anything except add that as a comment to metasmoke.
 
user10957435
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Got you. So Smokey doesn't take action, but there's record of it. Makes sense. Thanks :D
 
^That title has a badness score of 4 :)
 
user10957435
Needing help
SQL error

Yeah, not a lot of useful things in it alone.
 
10:51 PM
Comment of the day:
Why is a Ferrari faster than a Whale... is it? by what metrics in what domain. But in short you are comparing 2 different beasts.. A compiled language with a jitted and strongly managed language. If you want raw performance, use C++ — TheGeneral 5 mins ago
4
 
user10957435
I saw that question and was scared to go in. But that's a great comment though.
 
user10957435
Btw: the 1 up-vote got countered on that question.
 

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