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3 hours later…
07:18
@EJoshuaS It's a duplicate target, for a post by the same user. We'll have to delete this one first.
@Shree ey mate o/
\o
 
2 hours later…
09:41
/o
user3956566
09:53
o\
10:56
\o
 
1 hour later…
12:17
@גלעדברקן Are those officially off-topic on SO?
@RobertColumbia That's ... kinda implied by Smokey's report already.
@JohnDvorak even if they are on-topic, that one is a blatant zero-effort dump, closable as unclear or too broad.
No doubt ab
out that
 
2 hours later…
15:06
@JohnDvorak why is whether or not a question from an ongoing contest officially off-topic on SO relevant in this instance?
Zoe
Zoe
15:43
@גלעדברקן Invalid close reason
That is a relevant one-box, right? Right.
Zoe
Zoe
oof, forgot about that rule xd But yeah, it's relevant
Zoe
Zoe
Feel free to trash it if it's a problem, and I'll re-post a non-onebox variant
@גלעדברקן @JohnDvorak @RobertColumbia As was linked by @Zoe, there's a Meta, "How to deal if the user asks for code in online programming competition?", asking if questions about programming competition problems are on-topic. The consensus is that the fact that it's from a programming competition has nothing to do with it being on- or off-topic on SO.
In other words, evaluate the question as an SO question, without regard to it being from a programming competition.
16:17
Meal Ready to Eat is still the first thing I think of when I see MRE. Why did they pick an acronym that was already heavily used? MRE's already got almost 29 million hits on Google. sigh MCVE was much more discoverable. Googling it actually lets someone find out what is meant on SO by it. Unfortunately, MRE must be accompanied by a link, or someone who doesn't already know the meaning will have a much harder time figuring it out.
My comment above has no reflection on you or your request, @MadhurBhaiya. I'm just expressing frustration about the change.
@Makyen heh. I don't believe SO is the kind of site where meta becomes a bible and "consensus" is a thing that can not include everyone (which would contradict its meaning). At least that's not the kind of site I am contributing to. Meta is a forum for discussion and close votes have a lot of leeway in interpretation, as is evidenced in this forum.
Zoe
Zoe
SO isn't a forum.
This chat room is a "forum" in the colloquial meaning.
Eh... not really. You're not dealing with threads and stuff; it's more like Discord.
Zoe
Zoe
^
But Discord is better.
16:29
No way. Discord is awful with replies.
Zoe
Zoe
Yeah, but it's still better
It supports quotes now too
Also, their mod tools are awful.
Anyway, beside the point. Although the site isn't considered a traditional online forum, I actually don't think it's incorrect so say that meta is "a forum for..." something. That's a perfectly acceptable use of the word "forum", even if we generally don't refer to the site a a forum. It's still a forum for something.
So... kinda depends on how Gilad was using the word "forum".
16:47
@גלעדברקן In this instance, I think the consensus that being from a programming competition doesn't inherently make a question off-topic is quite clear. Of the 5 answers on that Meta, none of them take the position that programming competition based questions are inherently off-topic. The one that comes closest is downvoted to a score of -13 (+10/-23), but it's saying that asking for an optimal solution is off-topic, not that the question is off-topic because it's part of a competition.
If you disagree and feel that programming competition questions are inherently off-topic, then it would be good for you to write an answer to that question, so that point of view is at least represented.
17:17
@Makyen I don't need to post on Meta to have my view represented. Consensus: "an opinion that all members of a group agree with." -- Oxford English dictionary. There's no clear or unclear consensus. It's binary. In any case our discussion is quite mute. SO provides for user moderation and we see a great variety in how that is applied. And we will continue seeing that variety long after this discussion regardless of your and my opinions on whether contest questions are off topic or not.
17:37
@eyllanesc no need for custom. "no repro" is a standard close reason.
18:16
@גלעדברקן As with almost all English words, there are multiple definitions for consensus. Personally, I don't choose to spend $90/year to have access to the online version of the OED. Thus, I use other sources. Even using the definition you've chosen, which I disagree is the intended one in this case, all members who have chosen to express an opinion have agreed with the most up-voted answer on the Meta Zoe and I linked (i.e. there are no down-votes on that answer) and
there are no answers arguing in favor of questions about programming challenges being inherently off-topic.
You are choosing to not express your opinion in the location where such opinions should be expressed (i.e. where such opinions matter). That effectively means you are choosing to allow the opinion expressed there by others be the consensus, even by the definition you are using of requiring agreement by everyone.
As I've said, if you disagree, then you should express that disagreement where the topic is being discussed on Meta (i.e. in an answer on that Meta question). Our task here in SOCVR isn't to to form policy or act against the general agreement shown on Meta. If there's a desire for Meta or SE policy positions to change, then that needs to be addressed on Meta. We can discuss policy here, but doing so doesn't change the position the policy takes.
As to "consensus", frankly, it feels like you're trying to argue semantics, rather than stick with what is the intended meaning. IMO, something closer to "a generally accepted opinion; wide agreement" is what is intended by most people when discussing a "consensus" on Meta. I don't think it reasonable to expect "all members of a group agree with" the position on almost anything on SO (or off SO). To require agreement by everyone would result in nothing ever being resolved, which isn't the goal.
18:30
To summarize, please use a close reason that isn't confusing for the majority of users here, given the context of the question. Assuming you want to aim for less friction.
18:49
@Makyen as I said, our discussion is quite mute - SO provides for user moderation and we see a great variety in how that is applied. And we will continue seeing that variety long after this discussion regardless of your and my opinions on whether contest questions are off topic or not.
@גלעדברקן as I said: please use a close reason next time that isn't confusing for most of us here. That is basically all we ask from you.
@rene prove that it's confusing to "most of us here" and I'll consider your request. Otherwise, I'll keep working as I believe is most helpful on SO.
There is nothing to prove for me, I asked you politely, that should do.
19:05
@rene but you based your request on something I don't know to be true. I used the same reason in this chat room a few weeks ago and no one mentioned anything, rather the question was closed. As it was this time, too.
@גלעדברקן Consider, please, that the SOCVR is not a fast-track lane for closing question. It's a moderation sub-platform inside of Stack Overflow. Just like Stack Overflow, if you want to participate, you follow the platform's rules, which are readily accessible.
That a question ends up being closed or not, has no bearing on whether what you did is OK or not. And just because no-one said anything last time, it is not implied that it was OK back then, only that no-one said anything.
(I haven't read all the way back very thoroughly, but @rene's request to you seems reasonable, and "being in an active competition" really isn't a valid close reason on Stack Overflow, even if the specific question itself is closeworthy)
@MadaraUchiha but I disagree that being in an active competition isn't a valid off topic reason. You're not really in a position to deny SO users (like me and others) their opinion.
@גלעדברקן I ask you to use a reason that does apply. That we failed to tell you you did something wrong before is a shame but we have given you plenty of explanation what we expect and the RO team isn't going to change their mind because you think it is okay. I ask you again: please use a close reason that generally matches our and meta's expectations and be open to change it if that is requested from you instead of having and endless continuing debate.
@גלעדברקן You are entitled to your opinion. But if you wish to participate in a platform, you abide by the platform's rules and constraints, not yours.
@rene it takes more than one to debate. You could just choose to accept that our opinions differ.
19:12
@גלעדברקן we can certainly deny you to vent that opinion over and over again in this chatroom.
@rene you've vented your opinion an equal number of times in response.
@גלעדברקן I accept that. Please accept we ask from you to use a close reason in this room that matches the general expectation.
@rene who's "we"?
All regulars here.
don't try me on that one.
20:10
Daniel Darabos and David Eisenstat raised the issue of competition questions possibly being copyrighted. Would that be a valid close reason? Under which category?
(Note that voting to close also allows for an "Other [fill in the blank]" reason when voting.)
Zoe
Zoe
@גלעדברקן That's not a close reason.
That's a flag reason (mod-flag, specifically - similarly to, well, exactly like you'd handle plagiarism), but not a close reason.
If you want a close reason, unclear or too broad (no real question asked, assignment dump, could probably push it to no MCVE if necessary)
20:36
@Zoe "no MCVE" is only for debugging, which doesn't really fit this type of question.
Zoe
Zoe
True
@גלעדברקן Copyright issues should be handled by the copyright holder sending a DMCA notice to SE (see a comment on that Meta & other Meta questions). SE will then evaluate it from a legal basis. It's not up to moderators or us to evaluate the copyright status of a particular question. OTOH, moderators do evaluate if the content is plagiarized (i.e. doesn't comply with the referencing requirements).
21:06
What is MCVE?
21:16
@גלעדברקן Minimal, Complete, Verifiable Example. It's what was used for a long time for code/information, in a debugging question, which is sufficient to reproduce/duplicate the problem. That code/information is now officially being referred to as a MRE (Minimal, Reproducible Example).
 
1 hour later…
22:19
0
Q: down[size] the [resize]

vaxquisLet's talk about size & resize (and its synonym, resizing) for a moment. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? They tell little about the specifics of the questions, and are completely ambiguous, even the tag descriptions say so directly...


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