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1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
3:46 AM
Hello Together o/
 
@wim Please don't ping moderators here about issues which can be dealt with by flagging FAQ
 
wim
4:23 AM
@StephenKennedy I don't want the flag to be handled by just any old mod, it needs someone without a good familiarity with Python.
Besides, flags for technical content are usually declined anyway.
 
5:24 AM
@wim sorry, no direct requests. Flag it if you want but I'd decline it personally... 3 score downvote it to hell in python room I suppose that's doable.
I handled flags (real flags, not pings) where the answers were bad copies/repeats of old/high voted answers. I deleted. Here, it's just not the proper way. Maybe edit it to explain that. And downvote.
 
wim
yep. well, Antti gave a good reason to DV now (code was already deprecated 2 years before answer appeared, and it didn't add anything new that the earlier answer already had)
 
then handle with a here. hint: answer now has 2 score :)
 
5:39 AM
@wim Yeah, flags really aren't for wrong or obsolete answers... That's what comments and voting are for.
 
6:37 AM
It was edited with a verbatim copy/paste from another answer there, btw.
 
@MikeM. Cheers, modflagged
@Shree Probably best to update your feedback on that last one
 
 
1 hour later…
Zoe
Nvm xd could've sworn it linked to the answer
Yeah, too Broad.
 
@MichaelDodd I think its also Unclear
 
@Zoe Yeah it did originally but I corrected it
 
 
1 hour later…
9:13 AM
Morning all, have we lost the "hot meta posts" on SO?!
 
Check check 1, 2... We live again?
@DavidG Dunno, chat has been down for the past hour or so for me
@DavidG Yep, gone for me too. Site must be having issues
 
@MichaelDodd related meta post: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/328173/…
 
Zoe
@MichaelDodd oh ^^"
 
fp feedback on autoflagged post: How to check validation of hl7 message? [MS]
Autoflagged FP: flagged by @SmokeDetector, @Rob, @Floern, @Sconibulus
 
Zoe
9:28 AM
(removed)
 
9:43 AM
Morning o/
 
I went unclear
 
@Zoe I was a bit disheartened at the edit suggestion against that one
 
. o O ( nobody knows the trouble i have seen )
. o O ( nobody knows ... but jesus )
 
I like this swordfish person, they speak like a fish through bubbles
 
Zoe
@MichaelDodd I didn't look at it tbh
 
10:24 AM
@Cœur that's not a close reason, but why is this code not working defo's fits the bill there
 
@treyBake Sorry, you're right, I should have been clearer. For long-time folks on this chatroom, it is known that picture-only == no mcve.
 
@Cœur ahh that makes more sense! Added to my association database ;P
 
didn't have any activity since an year
 
10:44 AM
Heh, didn't realise I was editing. Oh well
 
^^
 
Hey I know this is close vote rev chat, but i am assuming you guys must also have some knowledge about this
why are edits like these being accepted ... stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/23006168
 
@Tomm Because users like to robo-review, it's annoying
 
@Tomm See the rendered output. I would have accepted this too, as it does improve the formatting
 
The worst ones are edits that add unnecessary, seemingly-random inline formatting changes
 
10:54 AM
what do you mean?
 
@NickA aaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaa *closes browser window and runs out the building*
 
11:27 AM
@Swordfish reopened by a gold badge holder.
 
@double Huh? Which one of those basterds was that? No, just kidding, it's fine.
 
11:40 AM
Was chat down for a long time few hours ago?
 
@PraveenKumarPurushothaman see Chat.se, chat.so and chat.mse seem to be down
 
i'm down too, who cares about me!?
 
@Swordfish fish are supposed to be underneath, no?
 
@tripleee pfffffr.
 
12:16 PM
I like "flag-fed"
 
why moving the waffles to null? (sad face)
 
There were a lot of them, as well as deleted messages. I normally don't bother, since those are more manual
 
Morning
 
 
@Lino Deleted answer :(
 
@Lino I know nothing about Basketball ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
other than it involves a basket and a ball
I'm just happy that Liverpool didn't win the Premiership
 
points for identifying the sport they engage in, I might have guessed hockey or football or baseball
 
@MichaelDodd My colleague saw this and their reaction was "ooooof, I don't like that guy"... I think he likes Liverpool
 
12:29 PM
or football?
 
@MichaelDodd Me neither. I am just always amused about all those trash answers that are posted on SO :D
 
@NickA I'm an Evertonian
For the non-Brits here, Everton and Liverpool are local rivals (the Merseyside Derby). The two stadiums are less than a mile apart, separated only by Stanley Park
 
@MichaelDodd "I can respect that"
 
I'm english and didn't know that ^^ (well, I knew they were rivals - didn't know about the short distance)
 
Though not as close as Dundee FC & Dundee United FC
 
 
1 hour later…
1:58 PM
o/
We migrated our production database last night and it broke all 12 million of our stored procedures. Happy Monday Tuesday!
 
12 million SP's ?!?!?!
 
@TylerH \o/
 
@kayess slight exaggeration :-)
probably more like 2 thousand
 
@TylerH I have a love/hate relationship with SPs
 
@TylerH that's also freaking lot
It remembers me when I had to develop a financial web application using Oracle APEX
That was a hell of SP's and some of them were wrapped (means being in binary form, deployed from Visual Studio)
 
2:04 PM
@Adriaan Not aimed at anyone in particular, but not an answer that can be edited down either IMO. It's a comment at best
 
I went NAA. I didn't read it and think "Oh, that was the answer" at all
 
I left them a comment
 
@kayess well we have a lot of ad hoc reports, I think that's mostly what uses them
but we also run a lot of web apps and desktop apps that rely on stored procedures
 
@TylerH It's a big red flashing NO (not refering to @NathanOliver :) to me... I hate to have bits of business rules/logic in SP's and so on...
 
@kayess what do you mean by business rules/logic?
 
2:11 PM
@TylerH parts or segments of code that should exist in the caller
 
@kayess I think you're saying you prefer to put all the SQL code in your application and just query a db directly?
 
@kayess can only agree, Separation-of-concerns, let the db only hold data. And let the code handle the querying
 
In my case, these are essentially either ad hoc reports or desktop apps that generate ad-hoc-esque reports (e.g. Excel dashboards that some VIP demanded requested), so a SP is necessary
 
2:24 PM
@TylerH yep ofc, and what @Lino said... also you can't unit/integration test it, it leaks business concerns, etc.
@TylerH how is it ad-hoc?
 
2:37 PM
@kayess daily runs for reports or reports run after a certain time of day
 
@TylerH sounds like a perfect fit for denormalisers of read models
 
@kayess Yeah... uh huh... i.stack.imgur.com/SZuOm.jpg
 
@TylerH denormalisers are held responsible for denormalising input data to a preferred (ad-hoc as you call it) output format, then the outcome is a read-model or a projection that can be displayed on a report
 
@kayess that sounds exactly like what an ad hoc report is
this is something built into MSSQL btw in Sql Server Reporting Services
 
2:46 PM
This whole thing is perfectly documented in (for example Greg Youngs) CQRS demos
yep well, usually the read-models are different db's than rdbms's. they are like document-db's or your favourite nosql solutions
to be fairly fast, without those pesky joins and so forth
 
@kayess I don't have a favorite nosql solution because I've never used one
we use MSSQL at my place of employment, partly because it's the best and partly because we are an entirely-Microsoft shop
 
Could be worse. Could be stuck with MS Access
 
I am so glad, that we are using redis and not databases anymore.
 
@Lino is it only backed by RAM?
 
@Machavity we do have some MS Access frontends in our environment
 
2:55 PM
@Machavity don't even joke about it. I have to be in some cases :/ to make matters worse, I use Linux.. so the odbc PHP library just falls over
 
I doubt it though, since that would be only true with small datasets
 
luckily the ones we do have are SQL db backed
 
@treyBake Using the ODBC functions directly or though PDO?
 
@Machavity the whole codebase is set to use odbc fnc directly
 
Ugh...
 
2:56 PM
@kayess Mostly yes, it just dumps into an appendonly file, but it is a rather "small" dataset so only like 4-8 gb ram used on the main server
 
@Lino yeah that's nothing :) imagine a redis cluster holding out like 150TB of datas :) which can be 'easily' achieved using some sorf of an sql server
 
Hi all. Why is this question too broad? Too simple, yes. Lacks effort, absolutely. Deserves a downvote? Ditto. But off topic as too broad?
 
@terdon Technically, no, it's not Too Broad. However, there are myriad users on SO who think such questions ought to be and vote accordingly
 
@terdon Seems like a Gimme code questions. That's probably why
 
Too Broad is for questions where the answer would either be one of many possible answers and/or require a whole blog post (or series) to cover.
 
3:00 PM
@TylerH Sigh. Then they should downvote, that's what votes are for!
@Lino See above.
 
@terdon I agree
 
I hate it when people try to force CVs just because they don't want the -1 rep hit.
grrrr
 
@terdon tbh I almost always downvote questions when I cast a CV, except they are duplicates, then it's more complicated
 
I can sort of understand that, as long as they're actually off topic.
 
One should always ostensibly downvote a question they think is off-topic, e.g. close-worthy. Downvotes help signal to other users the value of a post and also can kick automated processes into gear to remove bad questions
 
@TylerH can only agree. If I see a question with -5 votes, it catches my attention. And I am certain that I am not alone with this.
Which finally leads to more CVs, which then remove the bad question at insane amounts of speeds :)
 
@Lino Keep in mind that questions with a score of -2 or lower are hidden from the questions list, so there's much less risk of them being seen/found by others
likewise the Roomba will clean up certain questions whether they're closed or not
it just happens a bit quicker if they're closed
 
@TylerH They stay in the tag-specific question-list though. Where I mainly look at questions
 
@TylerH For me it will depend on the reason it's off topic. Obviously dupes are exempt, but I would also not downvote something that's a decent question but borderline off topic. In other words, I vote based on the quality of the question and not on the OP's understanding of the site's scope.
I'll also not downvote a question by a new user if it's already at -2 or so. At that point it just feels spiteful.
Is the threshold really -2 to hide questions on SO? It's -5 on the rest of the network.
 
@terdon Well if the question still is bad then there should be no exception for new users
 
3:13 PM
@Lino What benefit is there in voting past -1 or -2? You're not teaching the user anything, you're just alienating them.
 
@terdon that's understandable; I tend to vote both based on scope and quality.
Though if a question is already at -2 or -1 I will almost never downvote it
 
Of course, I also don't really spend much time on SO. I don't even have CV privileges here (measly 2k rep!). My take is based on other sites and may well be completely wrong for SO.
 
The of this burnination discussion is staggering
3
 
@terdon I'm fairly certain it is -2 to hide. SO has orders of magnitude more users and questions than other sites on the network
 
yep, makes sense
 
3:15 PM
so the threshold needs to be lower otherwise we'd just get inundated
 
@terdon that what Tyler said. I would downvote a question from Jon Skeet into oblivion if it was bad quality and / or out-of-scope. No exception for any user. -1 vote is just a person that disagrees, if there are no other votes. -10 is rather significant that many users disagreed
But I tend do be a bit harsh in that regard compared to some other users.
 
@Lino -10 is pointless on a question by a new user. And remember that question scores are the sum of all votes, so -1 doesn't mean that one person disagreed, only that one person more disagreed than agreed :)
I just feel that downvoting past -1 or -2 is just spiteful and doesn't do anything useful at all.
 
3:34 PM
Who the what now?
 
4:33 PM
@NathanOliver OP already self-deleted
 
Yeah. Did it right before I hit enter
shakes fist
 
That last one was sketchy. Another user has been using it as signature links as well. Just as well they self-deleted
 
4:53 PM
@terdon Stack Overflow regulars hear that view from time to time, but I think generally won't agree with it. Some questions really are woeful, lazy or presumptuous, and a downvote flurry sends a fairly unequivocal message.
(Of course I cannot speak for the community, there are a variety of views, etc).
There is an interesting philosophical objection that if it is OK for a person to do something, but it is bad for a group to do it, then which person in the group is responsible?
They all did the same thing :-p
 
@tripleee the question doesn't have an upvoted or accepted answer
 
@halfer I know they won't. I just wish they would since such downvotes are pointless and only serve to drive people away, not teach.
 
@terdon I understand you disagree. But my objection stands, and I am interested to hear what you think of it. In other words, it may be unreasonable to condemn a group of people, because they are just individuals doing what we encourage them to do.
 
POB or valid?
 
@terdon down votes on question are free and always have been.
 
5:15 PM
The downvotes are not pointless, anyway, since they feed into quality systems that determine whether an account should continue posting here.
 
@double-beep I'd leave it. Trying to understand why a change was made to a library is useful
 
Useful, but is it answerable?
 
No CVs left for today :(
 
seems like the no MCVE page no longer works
 
Looking to understand why my question was deleted. Since @Machavity is here and voted for it, perhaps there's an explanation?
 
5:30 PM
@end-user Hmm? Which question are you referring to?
 
@end-user do you have a link? That helps
 
so, <10k users will not enjoy this? :(
 
Deleting Skeet's answers, bold choice
 
Yeah, I missed the Skeet answer. Voted to undelete
 
5:35 PM
@end-user looking at that question and its answer it is yet another duplicate where the answerer seems to have copied his answer from one of the dupes. Not very useful for future visitors that have the same problem.
 
Without knowing Java at all, Skeet's answers on that Q and the dupe target are very similar.
 
No, I agree it was a dupe
But I didn't think it was just a flat policy to delete dupes...
 
@Adriaan If that is how that user got their rep we might as well flag for a moderator and have all their answers checked
 
@rene Do you want another 30 mods? :p
 
@end-user if it is a good signpost we shouldn't but I don't see anything in your wording that wouldn't let me find one of the other dupes.
but I'm not a java dev
 
5:39 PM
shrug Just saying - I asked because I couldn't find an answer.
 
worth reopening? OP has added code, but I don't really like:
 
@end-user Flat policy? No. But, as I've noted many times in here and on Meta, sometimes we have enough dupes. One of those canonicals has 33 questions it's a dupe of
 
> I have tried some things, but they don't work.
 
I'll delete if it's not deemed worthy.
 
I should also note that date questions, in any language, are some of the most duped things on SO. Everyone thinks they have some special case, in most instances
@SotiriosDelimanolis Care to chime in on the above, since you closed it?
 
5:43 PM
@end-user yeah, I appreciate you seek assistance here and ask around. I'm a bit blunt maybe. I'm sorry about that.
 
Don't mine rene. He likes to blur the lines of welcoming
@double-beep Still lacks a good problem statement. "Code doesn't work" really doesn't help
 
@Makyen The OP has already provided an MCVE, please delete my request
 
6:00 PM
@double-beep There is not even a question, so I would go Unclear/TB (it probably doesn't matter though, old HW dump)
 
watt?
 
Zoe
That's GTC, hence TB
 
why adding blockquotes to a h/w question?
 
Zoe
"Here is my homework" => "write my code" => TB
Does it matter?
 
yes, homework is cheating
 
Zoe
6:02 PM
Homework is overrated
 
@double-beep Because the HW is a quote. It's not the author's own voice :-)
@Zoe Homework is often underdone ;-)
 
Zoe
meh, depends on the homework
 
@double-beep To be fair, there was an attempt (which I discovered only a few seconds ago) but it was in the comments, and it probably needs to close anyway
 
@Zoe maybe give OP a second to edit their question to comply with the rules (after letting them know in a comment...) before cv-plsing it...
 
Zoe
Good point
 
6:13 PM
Trying to emulate Shog's advice here :-) meta.stackexchange.com/a/328166/253521
 
@Zoe I've added the code to the Q
 
Zoe
@TylerH I'm honestly not used to posters being responsive. Might be because of community differences in tags, but some tags honestly appear to be worse than others.
Yeah I noticed ^^" Already retracted my vote
 
Coolio
 
@end-user Hey, I felt that the post wasn't valuable as a duplicate sign post. Jon's answer was also a literal dupe of their answer in one of the duplicates, so there's no lost value there either (this was one of the arguments given in my request)
@Machavity yeah thanks for pinging
 
6:46 PM
@Zoe Hm, wonder if that might be "good subjective"? Dunno
 
Zoe
Doesn't really look like it
 
@Zoe Yeah, it's definitely not the default thing for sure
which is all the more reason to go the extra mile (or inch...) when a user is responsive
 
Zoe
yeah
 
7:56 PM
 
MSO is down?
 
For me, too.
 
no posts on Twitter from Nick or StackStatus
 
@TylerH I don't go imperial, only metric
 
MSE also down
other Metas aren't down
they killed metas?
 
8:02 PM
Not down for me
 
oh, well, it is back
 
@Adriaan Coming up next on Radio Europe, I'm Gonna Be (804.672 Kilometres) by The Proclaimers
3
something tells me that's not the original video
 
8:18 PM
the Meta error message did say it was planned maintenace
I'm guessing they just didn't post about it just before hand but announced it a while ago
 
although not too much info
 
 
1 hour later…
9:31 PM
@JohnDvorak Ah, I forgot - I think you mentioned a Meta post about editing that I should read. I'd be happy to take a look, if you don't mind digging it out.
 
9:44 PM
Say, has anyone here tried to approach established/hi-rep users to discourage answering dups? I tried today, on a whim, and it was not very well received (I got a "everyone does it, why are you picking on me, bugger off").
 
9:57 PM
@halfer No, because the reply is likely to be along the lines of "everyone does it, why are you picking on me, bugger off"
 
@StephenKennedy Ha ha! That's cheered me up, ta! :=p
SQL tag, I shoulda known better. Can't move in there for FGITW...
 
I seem to recall a meta post or a blog post about the "tribes" of Stack Overflow but can't find it atm (and it likely contains some now unacceptable names for types of users) but... well, never the twain shall meet
 
@StephenKennedy Giggle. I think they were called "rep-coleslaw" or something.
Rep-see-saw? Hmm, my memory isn't what it once was.
 
close enough, given that we don't say it any more :)
 
I think see-saw is being banned next week, so I am getting it out of my system now.
Might have been rep-Eeyore - I can imagine grumpy donkeys getting hot under the collar about that.
 
^ Check you and your magical lever
 
I barely have time to use as I get invited to so many parties now
 
@StephenKennedy The rock-n-roll lifestyle of the Stack Overflow janitor!
 
 
2 hours later…
11:55 PM
0
Q: Send [automotive] to the scrap yard

Ken Y-NWe have automotive with just 22 questions, 20 this year (odd - was there a cleanup last year?), which seems very vague compared to the actually useful but even quieter android-automotive, automotive-grade-linux and iot-for-automotive. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it i...

 

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