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12:01 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
1:49 AM
Is this question too broad? stackoverflow.com/questions/51867939/…
 
@SamuelLiew I'd say it's meh, so leave it. There's a somewhat objective question there and some good answers
 
alright thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
4:34 AM
server reboot night, "yay"
 
 
1 hour later…
@JonClements when will we try again? You weren't even half bad. Apart from the constant phone calls that is ;)
 
also a semi-spammy NAA answer might need more VLQ flags
 
Rob
@NathanOliver Have you seen satisfactory? Looks amazing
 
6:14 AM
@InsaneCat In the future, please provide a more detailed close-reason for your cv-pls requests. "Off-topic" is insufficient, as it covers many different close reasons. On SO, "off-topic" includes all of: General computing (Super User, but really anything that "doesn't belong here"); belongs on Server Fault; is a Resource request; No MCVE (debugging question which doesn't fulfill requirements); Typo/Not Reproducible; Migration (to a few different, but not all, sites); and Other: custom reason.
 
aah ok @Makyen
 
6:53 AM
 
this type of question reminds me of the system of a down song
do we need a in MSE?
 
7:50 AM
Would you say that my suggested edit: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20612138 deviates from the original intent of the post?
 
@Jogge Yes. Why do you think it doesn't?
 
@Jogge Would you say it doesn't?
 
@Makyen @Cerbrus The question is about turning something into a HashSet. The ´HashedSet´ part is just confusing - I had to google it to see what the difference is between HashSet and HashedSet...
I would say the question is exactly the same with or without the HashedSet part
Both guys rejected has no relation to the tags c# and linq... I don't get why they're even allowed to reject this type of suggested edits when they don't know the technology
 
So why does it need editing out? Users familiar with HashedSet might be searching for a way to convert those
And wouldn't find that question after your edit
 
@Cerbrus There is nothing called HashedSet, so no one will search for that term
 
7:58 AM
> so no one will search for that term
Prove it.
Or, less blunt: That's not a good reason to remove it from a question.
 
@Cerbrus he just did; I had to google it to see what the difference is between HashSet and HashedSet...
 
@Jogge But the author's intent was clearly to have HashedSet as part of the question. They even added an answer about HashedSet as a supplement to the accepted answer. Your edit would have A) been against the author's intent, and B) invalidated an answer. Both things you are not supposed to do. In fact, the consensus is that any such edits should be reverted, if they get applied.
 
@Adriaan He is not "everyone".
 
@Cerbrus he said "no-one will search", and he is someone
 
8:00 AM
 
@MikeM. Visual Basic
 
@Jogge Disregarding other search engines, and other combinations of terms.
 
@Jogge C#, too.
 
I'm sorry, but I agree with the rejection of the edit.
 
@Jogge We're allowed to do so because we're trusted to make such judgement calls, including having the judgement of when we should not be making such calls, for edits by people with < 2k reputation. While I might normally skip such a review, your changes were clearly against the author's intent, and thus should be rejected.
 
8:03 AM
@Makyen The HashedSet is just confusing the reader. Yes maybe it's relevant for the author. But I don't think it's relevant for anyother than the author
 
@Jogge It's confusing you. You are not every reader.
So far, since the inception of that question in 2010, this discussion hasn't come up yet.
 
I was the reader. I found the question on Google... :)
 
@Jogge You are not every reader.
That question has been viewed 59476 times.
 
You're right.. :) I'll just leave a comment to suggest removing the HashedSet part...
 
@Jogge Perhaps, but the editing guidelines are that you should not be changing the post in conflict with the author's intent. You appear to agree that you were doing so, but are arguing that your judgement is that it should be done in this case, even though it's against the guidelines.
 
8:07 AM
The OP hasn't been seen in months, so no point.
 
@Makyen I still do not agree. Apparantly you have more reputation than me, then you must be right :)
 
@Cerbrus btw you are correct; delete votes can't be undone. You have to wait until a post is deleted and then vote to undelete if you want to 'reverse' it
 
@Jogge The fact that I have more magic internet points than you doesn't inherently make me right. It does tend to indicate that I might have more experience with what is expected on Stack Overflow.
Note that if the author of that question had merely accepted the answer which was about HashSet (and not about HashedSet), then I might have agreed with an edit which removed HashedSet from the question. However, the OP adding an answer specifically about HashedSet makes their intent to include it quite clear.
 
@Jogge If you think that question is not relevant to the question that you were asking, then please, by all means, ask another question. Self-answering is also perfectly fine. Removing content someone else put into their question is rarely ever OK on Stack Overflow.
 
@TylerH Thought so. *shrug*
 
8:20 AM
@Adriaan I'm sure my question "How to convert linq results to HashSet" would be marked as a duplicate.
 
@Jogge well, then I guess it's a more general question which happens to contain two questions (both to HashSet and HashedSet), and there's no need to remove either, since both have been answered concisely.
 
@Makyen I could have changed his answer to HashSet aswell. Then everything would be fine and no one will ever be confused in the future about HashSet vs HashedSet
 
@Jogge you could, but you'd be removing valid content from the site, which, again, is not allowed
 
It's not valid since it's not valid C# code
 
Then by all means, leave a comment explaining that, or even an answer stating why you think it's incorrect, but don't remove content
 
8:24 AM
@Jogge Which would have clearly conflicted with the author's intent, which, as you've seen, is specifically something that is not supposed to be done. (and what @Adriaan said)
 
Just forget it. In the future many other readers will read this question and has to look op what the diference is between HashSet and HashedSet. It's just a waste of time every time.
 
If it was that problematic, someone would've suggested an change, before.
That question is 8 years old...
 
@Jogge as I said: then leave a comment. That's what you have got reputation for. Or, leave an answer explaining your point of view what the difference is
 
@Cerbrus Maybe they did - but their edit was also rejected......
@Adriaan I already left a comment :)
 
@Makyen @Cerbrus back to that C# question: should the "Edit: this is what I ended up doing (...)" part be edited out? That's an answer as far as I can see
 
8:33 AM
@Adriaan That was my initial impression. I left it in a tab to look at it further (e.g. edit history), but haven't gotten back to it yet.
 
@Jogge No, there hasn't been an suggested edit like that, before.
 
@Makyen OP also has a self-answer somewhere down the line which is NAA (asks another question), already flagged that. I won't edit the Q though, since I don't speak any C#
 
Yea, that looks like a self-answer.
Edited
 
@Cerbrus It would probably be better to edit that into the OP's self-"answer".
 
@Adriaan 6 - 8 somethings? :p
 
8:40 AM
@JonClements being a busy dog are we?
 
Morning
 
@Makyen Oh, didn't realize he self-answered
 
@Adriaan yeah... or trying to look like it at least :p
 
9:07 AM
Always fun when a mod generates smoke :)
 
Not fun for them if they happened to be tied to a pole with a fire lit under 'em though :p
 
@JonClements strange hobbies you have
 
Really? Seem perfectly normal to me :)
 
I thought the normal way to deal with mods was tar and feathers?
 
9:24 AM
meh... that's so old school... you're clearly not keeping up with the latest trends and fads :)
 
I just like the classics :) (But I'm open for new suggestions)
 
o/
 
\o/
 
/o\
 
@AndréKool I don't think we've tried the throwing mods in a deep pool of water with concrete shoes and see if they drown thingy yet... :)
 
@JonClements Don't the new mods all live on a big island surrounded by water....
 
that's not water... that's hydrochloric acid we swim in to wash away some mod message replies we receive :)
2
 
10:02 AM
I don't know why I bother looking in the H&I queue, I almost exclusively clicked "Question is Very Low Quality"
 
10:26 AM
Wow... highly targeted spam :)
 
I feel somewhat terrified after reading that...
 
You have a phobia of hair transplants? :)
 
I can't read it :( (But reminds me I need to get my full head of hair to the barber)
 
Well, from my dad I've learned that I'll go grey by the age of 35, but at least I won't go bald
(and it's already making a good start on the sides :( )
 
A phobia of hair transplants from those not properly capitalising words and writing poorly more than anything
@AndréKool Why not? just click the MS link
 
10:30 AM
@NickA those pesky spammers... they'd be so much better received if only they used proper spelling, punctuation and grammar, yeah? :)
 
@NickA Page not found...
 
@JonClements They would!, then I'd just complain that I'm not interested instead of criticising them >.<
@AndréKool Not the question link the "MS" link at the beginning of the message
 
@JonClements I've been receiving spam to my work email advertising monitors recently, probably the most relevant spam I've ever received
 
Lucky you? :)
 
@JonClements If the department gets a budget increase then maybe :)
 
10:36 AM
the MS link metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/131845 contains the archived post, if you can't visit that we have a serious problem
 
11:07 AM
IMO this question is one of the examples where the new CoC would work well. Not exactly a great question, but their heart's in the right place and I reckon they'll be making a positive contribution in the future if the community acts respectfully in return.
Though admittedly it's a very rare example within the wider context of
 
11:36 AM
@Vega please only provide the link to the question which needs to be closed; the proposed duplicate will be in its comments anyway. This makes it easier to see which of the two is the one you're after now
 
Unfortunately I tagged with a less good duplicate and removed and now I cannot cv anymore
 
@Vega Ah, then as well: just leave a comment "Possible Duplicate <link>" on the Q itself
 
RO op edit and add code so please remove chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/43630141#43630141 from [cv-pls] queue
 
12:05 PM
Is it just me, or are links suddenly underlined everywhere on main? Has it been like that?
 
@AndréKool Ah, thanks. Totally missed that post, somehow.
 
12:21 PM
^ Old post, discussed on meta
 
12:33 PM
Morning
 
o/
 
Afternoon
 
@Rob That looks interesting
 
Rob
Indeed.. Trying not to keep my hopes up too much, as it's not uncommon for reveals at E3 to significantly misrepresent the final product
 
12:48 PM
o/
 
1:00 PM
@Rob is Half Life 2 out yet? :p
oh wait... what year is it? :p
 
@JonClements It's been a while since I've seen someone ask on stackoverflow with help creating a half life 2.
 
I wonder how much HL2 is on steam - haven't played that in years
 
@JonClements Much to my shame I've owned it for 12 years and still haven't completed it
 
well... can't rush these things, hey?
 
And don't expect anything non-DOTA-related from Valve while The International is on :)
 
1:09 PM
"Sry, if it is in a google search, I have not found." funny... but surely there is a duplicate about assignment being used as an expression
 
@MichaelDodd I have played HL2 to the end at least five times.
 
Maybe dupe for this one stackoverflow.com/questions/46375122/… @toohonestforthissite
 
Anyone know what the [point] of the tag is? Burn it?
 
@E_net4 I've played it through to just beyond Ravenholm a couple of times, but then other life stuff gets in the way and I don't get to return to it for a long time
 
@JonClements On sale, it's probably $5 for the entire "trilogy"
 
1:13 PM
@MichaelDodd Ravenholm is indeed a great chapter of the story. Still worth going all the way, though. :)
@Machavity HL3 conf- uh, never mind.
 
Incidentally, about 80% of HL1 has been remade
 
@Machavity Probably a little more.
 
It seems that "Too Broad" gets abused a lot to close low effort questions, even when they have a narrow and well-defined problem scope.
 
The whole bundle is €29.80
 
Oh, and if you've never read it, a guy made a brilliant comic that parallels HL2 perfectly
 
1:19 PM
Although, there have been -90% sales on half life
 
@PatrickParker The only thing they have in common are they are asking to be spoon-fed. There's a lot of dupes in that regard.
@EJoshuaS It's about making (drawing) points, according to the info. But if you want to burn it to the point, feel free to start the process.
 
SO has been spoon-feeding me for years now and I didn't even have to ask a question :)
 
yeah, I settled on a slightly more similar one in the end: Using assignment as a condition expression?
 
@AndréKool Wrong attitude. I also foudn a lot of answers, but not until my own research and thinking didn't work. The culture of asking instead of thinking is like a spiraling into a black hole: At the end you have no skills at all. Otoh, the more you first think for yourself, the more are you able to find answers yourself to new problems.
 
1:52 PM
Wasn't there something against targeting users...
 
@jps We have a rule about not targeting users. Your post appears to be doing that
@gunr2171 Can you bin this request please?
 
jps
@Machavity Ok, understand. Sorry for that. But how to handle that situation? Noticed this broad question and thought I've seen another too broad one from this user before..
 
Just close vote them, the CV queue will take care of it. No need to bring it to this room - we deal with individual content not users.
afk meeting
 
a meeting...? You never do meetings though? :p
 
2:02 PM
@RiggsFolly You (or the script) must really want to close that question...
 
Sorry guys, browser hung for a few second and I thought I had missed the button, so pressed it again and then got 2 sends
 
jps
@gunr2171 I can just flag and my experience is that they usually age away
 
2:33 PM
1 message moved to SOCVR Sanitarium, per request
 
So if someone leaves an ostensibly rude comment, then deletes the question and finally the comment, is it worth mod flagging?
 
6 answers and counting for a typo...
7
Great, it's closed now :D
 
@Machavity I would say so, yes. So they can check and annotate the user if needed
 
Yeah I have flagged a few that left hostile comments (then quickly deleting them). I guess it's not an acceptable use of comments.
 
3:46 PM
 
4:14 PM
> The next SOCVR room meeting will be on Friday, August 24 at 19:00 UTC. Please submit any topics you'd like to cover to the github repo.
3
> The current RO team is too small, let's make it larger! Want to help lead this room (and have a shiny kick button)? Write up a Github Gist and we'll add it to the nominations page. Nominations close Friday at 00:00 UTC and results will be announced soon after the room meeting.
6
 
@PearlySpencer ?
 
user8682794
@rene sorry i posted the link
 
ok
 
> FAQ Member Expectations #12: Members are not expected to close vote any post you bring up. Furthermore, do not pressure anyone into doing so. cv-pls means "close vote please", not "close vote or I'll stab you." This applies to all types of requests.
 
user8682794
@gunr2171 was that for me?
 
4:23 PM
yes
 
user8682794
@gunr2171 your advice is noted but i am not the one with the word "gun" in my user name...
 
uh, ok?
you have "pen" in your name, does that matter?
 
@PearlySpencer gunr's requests always carry an implicit "Do it or I'll summon you into a meeting" threat
 
user8682794
yes, i did not hold the gun to anyone's head to vote.
 
user8682794
@Machavity oh dear
 
4:26 PM
 
@PearlySpencer while that is true it can also be seen as a second request against the same post and that is simply not something we allow under our current rules. The Room Owners are around to point out our rules when we think something might get out of bounds. Please accept that we link you to relevant rules in our FAQ. Trying to be witty might be interpreted wrongly and is best avoided.
 
6:23 PM
are questions deleted once they are closed?
stackoverflow.com/questions/51670945/… was closed some time back and now it has been deleted by mods
@Toto @marc_s and @Mofi
 
@shreyasminocha Some questions will be auto deleted by the system. Otherwise users with 10K+ reputation can vote to delete questions and if it gets enough delete votes the question will get deleted.
 
so what are the conditions for deletion?
i've seen many very poor questions around
that weren't deleted
 
@shreyasminocha For manual deletion see this. For automatic and manual deletion see this. As for why A lot doesn't get deleted it is a problem of numbers. There isn't enough people to moderate all the low quality content that gets posted every day
 
6:41 PM
@shreyasminocha Just FYI: Pinging these users here was ineffective. They can't be pinged from this room, because they have not been active here (or at least not active recently enough). If a user can be pinged, then their username will show up in the autocomplete dialog as you are writing the @username.
 
6:57 PM
Doesn't this look more like some blog entry and self-promotion than an actual question? stackoverflow.com/questions/51888728/…
 
7:07 PM
@Makyen thanks for the fyi. i was wondering why their names didn't turn up in the suggestions
 
@toohonestforthissite Looks like a blog post. Since it's closed it will get roomba'd so I don't think we need to do anything.
 
@shreyasminocha np. I just didn't want you to think that they were intentionally ignoring you.
 
@NathanOliver Yeah, well, this was one. Some people seem to confuse this site, even long term users.
 
"If you don't understand the muParser C/C++ library, or have not worked with it; This question is likely beyond your exact expertise...." smells of troll
"It's a free gift. If you want the C header as well, Private message me. I'll get it to you, somehow."
 
@shreyasminocha A bit aggressive, but I wouldn't consider it trolling, just lacking knowledge. I encounter such folks in my job quite often. Self-taught engineers who didn't really learn the language(s) with all their terms and how they work, but just by following a pattern they once learned. Completely lost when it comes to theory and standards or their toolchain changes.
 
7:16 PM
likely
 
@shreyasminocha Just to be clear: that does not mean self-taught people are always like that. I'm an autodidact, too, but I always wanted to look behind the curtain.
 
yeah i'm self taught too; makes sense.
i find the whole "question" really funny though
 
@MartinJames Wow, that's quite a cucumber farm.
 
@toohonestforthissite Yeah. Anyone with that actual problem, rather than quiz/homework, would have just renamed one or both, rather than introduce even more confusion. Totally useless Q.
 
7:27 PM
@toohonestforthissite watch out, so you don't get slapped while your taking a peek
 
7:38 PM
Anyone seen anything as to why SE has changed to using CSS classes as if they are the style attribute. For instance, the question attribution/action div gets class="grid mb0 fw-wrap ai-start jc-end gs8 gsy", with most of those just a single CSS property, many with !important. It seems to fly in the face of what the entire purpose of having CSS (i.e. decoupling the HTML from styles on every element). It's like they went back to the web of the '90s, only worse.
 
They are messing with js also, try to edit a comment
 
<blink>I like it</blink>
Hey! When was that deprecated?
 
Since 2013
 
Grmmbbll
All the good stuff gets removed.
 
7:56 PM
 
@Vega Oh, that is much better then my one (too much jQuery) ...
 
Yours is more impressive :) How about this one? stackoverflow.com/a/20270551
 
Nice. Pretty powerful those CSS transitions
 
8:39 PM
Could this be considered as a spam?stackoverflow.com/a/51902505/5468463
 
user8682794
@Vega it depends on what the video shows i guess
 
user8682794
in any case it is a link only answer so it should be deleted
 
The author doesn't disclose their affiliation
Yes, I was going to flag it as NAA
 
SE appears to have added animations for up-voting a comment. Are they sticking (i.e. not ending on the "normal" up-voted indicator) for anyone else (ignoring that the animation is annoying)?
 
@Makyen sticking for me. I had to click off to get it to go away
 
8:53 PM
@NathanOliver Oh, so that's what they expect the user to do. Why would a user do that?
I'm getting more and more frustrated with their lack of basic testing?
 
@Makyen Preach. The edit comment bug they introduced a little bit ago was especially frustrating.
 
Ron
Got underlined links?
 
Yep. And I'm not liking those either.
 
@NathanOliver Yeah... that's definitely one of those where I'm thinking is there actually a QA team somewhere... that should never had been pushed to live...
mind you - I've pushed worse changes to live in my time so - meh - not one to talk
 
@Ron What makes it it even worse is the mot meta post on the right side have the old style links while all the comments and post have the new links. So now you don't even have a consistent style
@JonClements Same here, it just seems to be consistent from SO.
 
9:01 PM
Probably not good either when your community are all pretty much programmers anyway that can critique it :p
 
tru dat
 
fairly sure us devs can get away with slightly more (despite our embarrassment of why the heck we mucked up) if the end user is a non-tech party that just wants to use it and doesn't give a beep how it works as long as it does :p
 
The end user ;)
 
@Ron Don't like it either
 
Ron
Here comes the downvote train...
 
9:07 PM
^ flagging as spam, no disclosure ;)
 
@Makyen For the 'basic testing' they can count on us, the 'end users' :)
 
@Ron Wow, people really want those underlined links.
 
Ron
That or Meta votes leave much to be desired.
 
@Vega That's a major part of the problem. Sure, we're here, and I understand that you can't always test everything, but you should be testing the changes you make, at least basically. Obviously, how much testing has a lot of variables.
 
Meta is a silly place
2
 
9:23 PM
As @JonClements and @NathanOliver have said, we've all made mistakes from time-to-time. However, we normally learn from them and put processes in place which make it much less likely for them to get through to end users on a regular basis. For SE, it seems that having such problems is normal, which makes it appear that they don't have a QA process for changes, even at the level of engineers testing their own changes, let alone having at least some measure of double checking by others.
2
 
Ron
What was that? I can't read clearly due to all the underlines.
Oh snap. Chat doesn't have it yet.
for contrast and accessibility reasons...
 
please don't remind them about chat
 
Ron
Haha.
 
10:03 PM
@PetterFriberg That's part of it. But I learned the benefit is worth the risk.
 

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