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7:13 PM
Hiya guys
Reopen vote here stackoverflow.com/q/13628187/1743880 What do you think?
 
o/
^ Note that the code in the accepted answer does not even compile, so I doubt OP tried it before accepting.
 
@Tunaki meh. I'm leaving it closed
afk
 
user4639281
@Tunaki seems like the first question could be answered by a profiler and the second question belongs on quora
 
if you can edit that into something acceptable, while keeping the answers... it's all yours
 
> If there is not enough memory, the old memory block is not freed and null pointer is returned.
@QPaysTaxes From da docs.
Yeah.
> If memory for the new object cannot be allocated, the old object is not deallocated and its value is unchanged.
From the C99 standard, just to be save. :)
@QPaysTaxes And that's why C is a pain.
@QPaysTaxes Of course not, but it's one more thing you can mess up.
I had to reimplement too many algos and containers that every normal programming language provides.
@QPaysTaxes Lol enable more compiler warnings.
 
7:32 PM
@QPaysTaxes why not just ignore array bounds (i.e declare something along the lines of int arr[50] and then use arr[50], arr[51], arr[52], etc just like how you would use arr[0], arr[1], arr[2], etc)?
 
@BaummitAugen C99 is not the C standard since 6 years now. The only C standard is C11 and one should not use old versions for new code.
 
@Olaf It's the only one I have lying around because that's what the C++ standards reference.
 
@BaummitAugen Actually it is not if you know the language. Similar for Human language: I just remember how bad I struggled to get a bit of French into my head.
 
Pre C++17 at least, when that gets releases I'll look for a copy of C11.
 
@QPaysTaxes Do a diff. I have no idea; it could beause of threading support (see my comment some hrs ago).
(you are still at that subject? Wow! ;-)
 
7:39 PM
What in tarnation?
 
@QPaysTaxes see ^, why use other references if you have the autoritative? (well, the final draft, but I can confirm there are only two macros different and these are even documented in the draft)
 
Fixed code mishaps No you didn't
 
@Olaf Ok, thx. Will use that for C questions from now on.
 
@BaummitAugen Open standards has a pdf version to keep it under your pillow (just print it to paper, ebook-readers break so easy :-)
 
@Olaf Found and downloaded that already.
But thanks for telling me which number to google. :)
 
7:43 PM
 
reject IMO
too minor of a revision, doesn't fix stuff that needs fixing
 
@Compass It's wrong, isn't it?
 
Hmmm, Any idea why we have and an ? Shouldn't they be the same?
 
also that
@BhargavRao they should be
 
@BaummitAugen Check out the defect reports, too. I remember there is one which was relevant for some volatile questions already. (but to be honest, I also tend to forget about them)
 
7:46 PM
@BhargavRao the standard for adobe products is the tag name without 'adobe' in front
 
Thinking of merging those.
 
@Olaf I don't get that corner-casey with C usually, I only use it for work. =D
 
so I would make adobe-indesign a synonym of indesign
 
@TylerH That won't work. [indesign] has 2.5 times the number of posts as [adobe-indesign].
 
7:47 PM
@BaummitAugen These are what cause far by most of the trouble with C. If you inhaled them like I did, it changes your mind. Maybe one can say "C is a drug" :-)
It definitively tells expert C developers from all others.
 
@BhargavRao why won' tthat work?
what does the number of posts in each tag have to do with it?
 
"SE Imposed Standards"
 
and wouldn't that make sense? The proper tag is supposed to have more questions than the duplicate
 
Oh, Wait
I mixed up
 
I'm saying get rid of by making it a synonym of
 
7:49 PM
@Olaf What are "these"? The corner case?
 
Ah, Okay. I'll do that now, Searching for a meta
 
sudo delete mix-up from timeline
 
@QPaysTaxes Yeah, Mods make mistakes, They are humans too.
:(
 
I stay away from them in every language when writing production code if possible.
 
@BaummitAugen Sure. (seriously meant question: which other part of your post could it relate to?)
Hmm, maybe "those" would have been better?
 
7:51 PM
@BhargavRao not dogs and cats?
 
Do edit bans exist?
*review edits
 
@Olaf These as in people like me maybe?
 
@Compass yes
 
@PetterFriberg There are a few, But most are humans. We have a machine though ;)
 
I'm not a good English speaking thingy though. XD
 
7:52 PM
@Compass yep any queue (with audits) can institute a ban on ya
 
@BaummitAugen Ehm, you can't. Because that's exact what makes software development. Or do you mean "implementation defined behaviour" or UB? These (those(? - heck!)) are not corner-cases, but beyond the edge.
 
I guess the moderator queue is ban-proof
 
are there moderator audits? :p
 
#makemoderatorsgreatagain
 
@BaummitAugen Doen't fit imo. But nevertheless it's also a good point :-þ
 
7:54 PM
@Olaf No, I mean tricky or clever code. Usually, there is a solution that can be checked for correctness without having to look into the standard.
I try to go for those.
 
screeches loudly at LQP queue
 
@BaummitAugen Not in C! Just consider bitshifts of signed integers. Even if you converto to unsigned integers beforehand, the conversion back is implementation defined for certain cases.
 
@Olaf I don't use signed integers for bit fiddling at all. (Now and for the rest of the discussion: If possible of course.)
 
@TylerH Did that, Synonymized them
 
7:56 PM
@BhargavRao huh?
 
@BhargavRao \o/
@NobodyNada the audit process for moderators is manual reactions from users, is what he's saying
 
How do you know something is allowed without learing the language and reading the standard (or some book which bascially explains the standard, just maybe with more words)? And if your focus is bare-metal embedded, you have to know what you are doing anyway.
 
@NobodyNada Damn, Need to explain the joke, :'( .... Meta posts are moderator audits.
 
@Olaf moin
 
> And if your focus is bare-metal embedded, you have to know what you are doing anyway.
 
7:57 PM
@BhargavRao sorry...
 
They shout out to us, STOP! Look and Listen
 
It's not. Everything I do is for big machines.
 
@Olaf machine learning. You can program AIs to learn how to win a game by programming two things: maximize your score in this game, and win
without teaching them the controls or the rules or strategies
 
> How do you know something is allowed without learing the language and reading the standard
cppreference
 
@BaummitAugen Same for me. Many C programmers recommend to use signed integers by default. I honestly think this is a very bad advice. Unsigned integers have much less undefined or implementation defined behaviour, so prefer them.
 
When cppr isn't good enough, I've probably become too clever.
 
@TylerH And without knowith the rules or at least the basics, i.e. "move the car, thre is a coordinate system, you have to hide, etc.? Sorry, buit I don't see this is a good way.
 
@Olaf I actually prefer signed integers for everything but bit magic.
I never needed or wanted Z mod 2^32 arithmetic so far when dealing with numbers.
 
I'm in the always use signed integer camp unless you really need 2 mod behavior
 
> Unsigned integers have much less undefined or implementation defined behaviour, so prefer them.
 
I'm in the "we're in 2017 and I don't think it should matter so much which number type you use" camp
But then again, I'm a JS main, so...
 
The stuff they are defined to do is not less of a bug than the UB of signed types usually.
 
@Olaf they try something and if it works, they keep doing it
if it doesn't work, they don't do it anymore
 
@BaummitAugen See above. bad approach. You run into problems when converting them to unsigned. E.g. if you use sizeof, you should use a size_t variable, not int. Let me guess: you never programmed production code in C for anything else than x86 in 32 or 64 bit mode or ARM?
 
That sounds terrifying.
 
8:03 PM
@Olaf Yep. Large scale scientific code mostly. We have tons of cores and tons of RAM.
 
@NobodyNada So we should not teach reading/writing and basic math rules at elementary school? Well, it might work, but if you have all freedom in the beginning, it will take a very long time.
 
true
 
Stuff like "array of char that takes up more than halve of total RAM" never happens there, int64_t is big enough for every index, always.
 
@BaummitAugen So you don't really have to bit-fiddle to a larger extend as we on embedded or OS-development have to.
 
@Olaf No, I don't bit fiddle much.
 
8:05 PM
@BaummitAugen That reminds me of a question today: How to allocate and array with 10e15(!) entries and which type to use.
 
If your really tight on space and that extra bit means all the difference then you have a use case. If you are running on a desktop machine, skip the bit and just go up to the next larger type.
 
@NathanOliver Did you just assume my memory capacity
 
@Olaf Ideally, you use a generator (or some form to iterator) without allocating the entire array at once.
 
@Olaf Lol, do have a machine with that much RAM? Also, use which type for what?
 
uh oh, you've summoned a madara now
 
8:07 PM
@TylerH Yep
 
@NathanOliver #offended
 
Whats a couple extra bits among friends?
 
A Stack Overflow
 
@TylerH I remember a classic AI test with neuronal nets: It was meant to differentiate friend from enemy tanks. Worked great, until one picture failed completely. A thorough inspection of what was learned showed: the net learned to tell sunshine from rain: As it happended, the friend tanks' photos were taken with sunshine, the enemie's with rain.
 
8:14 PM
@Olaf It's most exciting when the AI learns to do something you never anticipated
 
@MadaraUchiha That was not the question (and not the point). and if you have such a large dataset, you ewventually end up with that data somewhere anyway. I remember the oil-industry had such extreme data sets ca. 15 years ago already. And they really struggled how to process them really fast. They were geographic exploration data.
 
@Olaf Yes, hopefully on your ROM, not in your RAM.
 
I was reading about the new GO AI that was made and in speed challenges it was doing moves that no one ever expected. As such it won most of the time.
 
You never really load a full petabyte of data into your RAM
 
@TylerH Exiting like in: "Welcome to Never-come-back Airlines. We are at a hight of 12000m now and soon approaching our destination. As you might now we will premier landing the plane by autopilot. It just has to learn how to work the controls properly."
 
8:16 PM
@Olaf lol
Nah, exciting in a dev environment
Hopefully any dangerous novelties you've accounted for once you hit production
One of the methods for ensuring human safety in AI is 'reinforcement', aka showing videos and tv shows to AIs that show the protagonist of a story getting rewarded
 
@TylerH You would be surprised how exiting it is to see code you have written with full knowledge about the rules runs like a charm from the start.
 
you can reinforce notions that mirror human ethics this way
@Olaf Yes but that's not AI, it can't really learn that way, it can just do what you told it to do. I'm speaking about AI specifically
And I would not be surprised actually; I know first-hand how exciting it is to see your code run properly the first time
unfortunately that's not a frequent experience :-P
 
@TylerH Nice therory, but that's not how the real world works. I know these programmers well enough who write code without true knowledge of the basics and try to get it up with the debugger. Even if they get it running for a particular toolchain, day and weather, such rubbish code tends to break with the next compiler version, minor changes at a completely unrelated piece of code, etc.
 
@Olaf Well it is actually
because Google is currently doing it
with some significant success
but OK :-)
 
I had such projects in the past. Most times the way faster and easier way would have been to completely redesign and rewrite. But customers often don't want this ("but the code once ran, so the problems can't be that larger"). I left the last project for lack of insight and don't take such projects anymore. You cannot win there.
@TylerH Please tell me if they ever work on medical devices. That should be the moment to retire to a block house in Canada or some south sea island - both without internet, etc. and just Solar-cells, and my own mediathek.
 
8:25 PM
@Olaf And bugs in those systems are expensive
 
This is why it's best to have beau coups of money and no client, like Google :-P You can iterate, rewrite, test, break stuff, without worrying about production until they have had time to get a working prototype into testing phase
 
@TylerH You mean "with great marketing fuss."
 
No you're clearly not talking about the same thing as me
you're talking about some independent firm doing this for a client
I'm talking about general and applied research in a lab setting
no client, no danger for failures
any company trying to do this for a client right now is wasting their time
because the tech and the programming just aren't there yet
and probably will be a few decades away still
 
@NobodyNada btw such teams that have written AIs to play through 70s and 80s games successfully are starting on 90s games now
 
8:28 PM
neat!
 
exciting/depressing at the same time :-D AIs are gaming their way through our childhoods
 
I'd like to see an AI play through Skyrim
that'll be the day
 
AI, or bot?
 
an AI
 
8:30 PM
Because TASBot can definitely play through Skyrim. An AI, not so much.
 
If they only had to pay the the material lost, not really. Humans are astouningly cheap. Just some carbon, oxygen, sulphur, etc. Every PC is more expensive.
 
a program that can be placed in front of the game and learn how to play the game successfully without any instruction
Actually I think I would rather see them release TES VI first because I'm a greedy bastard :-P
the "Radiant AI" for in-game NPCs should finally be robust enough by then to have real interactions with the characters
 
@TylerH Medical devices, aeronautic systems, cars are not games! Let alone the problem who is responsible if the automatic car kills people. That is not a technical aspect, but a social and juristical. Technocrats tend to forget about such things. I once thought like you, but it is not the human to serve technique, but the contrary. Just using technical processes because they are available should never be the way to go.
 
the AI learns to kill everything. Skynet, the end.
 
@Compass that's a valid way to finish Morrowind
 
8:33 PM
John Brunner once wrote a very true statement: "The worst ting you can do to a human being is treat him like an object!"
 
you can do it the mainquest way or you can do it the alternate way and grab two specific items and just go kill the two god characters
 
the other issue is that the AI has limited scope
 
@TylerH I still have to play that game. Don't spoiler!
 
using that method, and the unbalanced nature of alchemy in Morrowind, the fastest speed playthroughs of the game can manage it in something like 5 minutes
 
it only understands the world as it plays out in Skyrim
 
8:35 PM
@Olaf It's on Steam!
 
Humanity typically relies on past experiences to understand consequences, i.e. stealing in the real world = bad and you become a criminal.
 
@Olaf Yes, no one is suggesting releasing an AI tuned for gaming into the wild for gaming, let alone for any other field
 
A vanilla Ai would not understand this concept.
 
@TylerH Who uses Steam if you can get it without this DRM-sh** on GOG?
 
@Olaf millions of people use Steam
because it's not really intrusive DRM
but anyway, I have Morrowind outside of Steam
because I bought it in 2002
 
8:36 PM
@TylerH "Eat feces! Millions of flies can't be wrong!" :-þ
 
I was simply answering your question of who uses it :-)
 
I bought it from GOG some time ago. Still had no time to play it :-(
 
picking Morrowind in 2002 over Icewind Dale at the store is actually what got me into programming and computers and tech as a child
Because I got into the modding scene and that snowballed into modding everything I could get my hands on
 
@TylerH You were aware the question was retorical, weren't you? :-)
 
then a mod project I was leading had a website and I wanted to mod that
@Olaf Yes, but I also wanted to point out the weakness in it, so I answered it ;-)
It is tongue-in-cheek
but, go play it this weekend
And then the next 50 weekends
 
8:42 PM
I feel an urge to set my fire pit on fire.
It's got a bunch of dead branches inside.
I guess from the gremlins throwing random sticks they find into it.
 
Stop the presses. When did Apple allow you to distribute apps outside the app store?!?!?!?!
 
@Compass Is a fire pit without a fire still a fire pit? Or is it a no-fire pit?
 
It's a fire pit waiting for its spark to be kindled
 
@Olaf it's a pit for fire, but not always a pit of fire
 
@NobodyNada I read that as pit for hire at first ;)
 
8:53 PM
I'm sorry, but that opening has already been filled
 
@NobodyNada Without fire it is just an empty hole in the wall. A fire pit without fire is something sad and depressing imo.
wonders what @NobodyNada wanted to tell him
 
Well, I've found another appropriate local job opportunity today.
Doesn't look that bad all after all.
Playing in software, you're driving a big ship ....
 
A fire pit without a fire is just a fire pit that isn't on fire yet.
 
@Compass Hell, what do you put into your fire pit setting the pit on fire? Normally one wants the stuff placed into burn, not the pit itself.
 
9:07 PM
Last time we put a pig inside.
 
(or maybe you have a wooden fire-pit ... AFAIK that's not even possible in minecraft, althought they have wooden pickaxes ...)
 
This is a real world fire pit owo
 
@Compass You mean this coal-mine somewhere in the US which is burning for decades now? AFAIK there are also other coal-mines in the world. Extinguish them and the Co2 problem is solved :-)
 
yeah, that's not exactly easy
 
@Undo Trump will solve it. ... via Twitter
 
9:20 PM
afk
 
that fire =w=
 
@Sam I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
@TylerH I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
Kinda odd coming from a user with... any rep at all
 
TylerH passed a audit!
 
9:40 PM
I need advice.
Flag as abusive?
 
Nuking the question should suffice
 
It doesn't stop the user from doing this again.
 
oh dear, the OP was actually fooled by it
 
@Machavity Re stackoverflow.com/questions/42182872/…, not sure it's on-topic there - webmasters.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic: "Detailed questions about how to code something are usually a better fit for Stack Overflow where there are more programmers that answer questions."
 
I'd say the asker was trolling
 
9:42 PM
The answer is not helping.
 
garbage in, garbage out
 
@JanDvorak yeah, probably, looking at the question
 
@Compass Voted to delete the question.
 
You killed it =w=
 
thank you!
you say that as if it were a bad thing, Compass :p
 
9:43 PM
What does the website actually do?
 
nothing
 
I prefer my kills to be multi-kills owo
 
Hello world.
 
It allows you to download more RAM.
 
@JaredDunham Welcome!
 
9:44 PM
Just a blank page that doesn't even try to ruin your computer? Weird.
 
It's the RAM version of LMGTFY
 
TylerH passed a audit!
@TylerH You've reviewed 40 posts today (of which 3 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 18 minutes, averaging to a review every 27 seconds.
@Tunaki I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
^ software-engineering wink wink nudge nudge
 
Tunaki passed an audit!
Tunaki passed an audit!
 
9:59 PM
That was quick
 
Tunaki passed a audit!
@Tunaki You've reviewed 40 posts today (of which 6 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 6 minutes and 58 seconds, averaging to a review every 10 seconds.
 
That robo
 
@TylerH fine, escalated :P
 
user3956566
is this on topic?
 
@Undo \o/
 
10:09 PM
Hello @Yvette!
I voted too broad
 
user3956566
@NobodyNada ah thanks :D
 
user3956566
I was wondering the same thing
 
@Undo wait, my burnination flag?
or
 
@TylerH yeah, the one on meta
 
thanks
@QPaysTaxes ah?
oah*
I guess it depends on the language
since each language treats it totally differently
like Haakon
the double a in haakon make the sound of a typical å
I was always told
it's a name
 
user3956566
10:21 PM
@QPaysTaxes maybe?
 
@Baum and @Floern keep an eye, lets hope just young and trigger happy, if problem use harsh methods :D, cya tommorow
 
@PetterFriberg Cya o/
 
user3956566
@QPaysTaxes qu?
 
user3956566
you haven't heard many Aussies sing then lol
 
@rene You've reviewed 40 posts today, thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 8 hours, 22 minutes, and 27 seconds, averaging to a review every 12 minutes and 33 seconds.
 
user3956566
10:23 PM
@QPaysTaxes oh yeh, there's that too lol
 
@QPaysTaxes lol
@M.A.R. what is this, the 2/3rds flower compromise of 2017?
 
@YvetteColomb I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
Yvette Colomb passed a audit!
 
10:38 PM
@QPaysTaxes This is your graduation test.
Yeah, I forgot. Edited.
 
Braiam has started reviewing!
 
11:28 PM
^ Link does not even work. That's f right?
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen I marked it as f
 
It also expands to "http://jquerytutorialwithexamples.com/2014/10/jquery-fire-event-textbox-value-c‌​hanges/" which looks legit.
 
user3956566
there is a new answer that's bumped the post, so SD has picked up the old answer
 
Just asking because I'm new at sd feedback. Thanks @YvetteColomb :)
 
user3956566
it's a legit answer with a broken link
 
user3956566
11:30 PM
that's all good, which is why I'm explaining :)
 
11:51 PM
@Undo It seemed on-topic for there. It's really a general "Here's how to do the first-click thing" as opposed to a PHP question (really he's just using PHP to read headers and act on them). But I'll trust your judgment
 

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