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01:15
everytime I see an animated gif I just wanna DV stackoverflow.com/q/34145774 (but I don't) :P
knowing full well Mogsie posted an animated answer a month ago
user4639281
I've seen that question before.
Sam has it in the queue
user4639281
Ahh
01:33
@Braiam That article is frustrating
user4639281
I once lived directly beside a telus (a service provider here in Canada) building, when I called to set up internet, they apparently couldn't find my town. I was asked "Does your town go by a different name?" jawdrop
Where we live, the only broadband internet provider is Comcast. Yesterday this happened, and it's one of the reasons I hold that HTTPS should be on every website, even static sites: reddit.com/r/technology/comments/40mt16/…
Just switched our router's DNS away from Comcast DNS servers today, too.
user4639281
ouch
@MaximillianLaumeister you should use DNSSEC too...
I mean, they can hihack your dns queries
user4639281
Just use Magic
01:40
@Braiam I've got DNSSEC set up for my personal domain, if that's what you mean
@MaximillianLaumeister no, a dnssec compatible client
like dnsmasq
I think I like the internet without images
gasp
Are you running without JS too?
user4639281
Lol
user4639281
2 hours ago, by Tiny Giant
Is that like turning off javascript?
@MaximillianLaumeister the internet breaks very badly without javascript support
the not funny kind of breaking
user4639281
01:47
I'm going to make a site made entirely from images, just so you can't see anything
Actually I just made noscript improvements to my site earlier today
For people with script disabled
Site still looks and functions like a boss
user4639281
I try to write everything so that it works without JS, then add JS as enhancements
user4639281
Other times I write everything in JS, faq 'em all
I would like to write something in AngularJS... just for the kicks
@TinyGiant Just remember to congratulate them for having js disabled on the sites you wrote that don't require it, and to shame them for having js disabled on the sites you wrote without any non-script fallback
user4639281
01:58
Yeah, that one.
user4639281
@Braiam Frankly, I dislike all those frameworks and crap. jQuery is the worst of all.
02:10
All the bad ISP stories are interesting... but it was a garage door contractor I was waiting for. Finally showed up at 6. Was done by 6:15. I can once again close my garage - now I just need to shovel a tonne of snow out of it.
user4639281
Lol
Since it couldn't close, my wife was worried someone would come and steal something. I was more worried someone would see the inside and deposit even more useless crap.
user4639281
Ha
Still worth a chuckle... Please bare with me.
Sorry, no. Too cold.
user4639281
You keep making me laugh, I'm trying to drink coffee here. Have pity on my screen
user4639281
bjenks, brian jenkins, think they're the same guy?
Both questions about the same web site. Seems like yes.
user4639281
Where was that post with the flow chart about triage and h&i?
Not ringing any bells.
user4639281
Is it StackOverflowians or StackOverflowNians? (If you're gonna be weird, would it be too much to be consistently weird?)
user4639281
the second, lower case n
user4639281
Otherwise it sounds like we're StackOverflowy
user4639281
And everyone knows our stacks have already overflown
About that post... who flags QUESTIONS as vlq?
Where's the Pacific Rim Crew tonight?
Hehe, "PRC", I slay me!
02:33
@Mogsdad so, so many people :(
@josilber Lovin' life as a mod, are we?
user4639281
I agree that flagging questions as VLQ is stupid, and should never be done. However, it is the only option other than editing in the H&I to get the question out of that queue.
Haha, it's definitely my #1 source of declined flags
@josilber Do you get magical unicorn points for those?
Well, it's cool to flag "sdflsdflkjdsflkjsdlfkjsfllasdkfj" as VLQ
02:34
@TinyGiant I pop out and close vote, with a cv-pls request, hoping to kill them fast. Dangerous place to go with no close votes, though.
@Mogsdad No, declined flags only generate protesting meta posts
user4639281
@josilber We've been told by shog to flag that as rude/abusive because a pile of those flags auto-deletes the question.
@josilber True dat!
@TinyGiant What he said.
mmhmmm, that's cool too
user4639281
@Mogsdad But AFAIK close votes don't remove questions from the H&I
02:35
@TinyGiant Nope, but getting closed does.
user4639281
And I mean, I would hate for someone to "improve" a crap question like that and put it on the front page
You could always edit out all the content, replace it with abusive language, and let the smokey patrol take care of it.
Once, anyway.
user4639281
lol
user4639281
And then get a talking to from a mod no doubt
02:37
We just say it was from a conversation with @josilber. No lie.
Haha, and josilber used an emoticon, which signaled approval. Blame that guy!
user4639281
Here we are trying to do our best to maintain the quality of content on the site, but the options available to us shouldn't be used.
user4639281
I mean, if there was an option to vtc (or flag for closure for those with less than 3k) in the H&I that moved the question into the close queue, I would be all for it. But right now the only option I have available to me is to flag it as VLQ, which is the recommended action, but results in declined flags.
I just find H&I too frustrating. I do want new users to ramp up, learn how to get the most out of SO, and get the help they are looking for... but every time I peek in there, I see questions that don't deserve the help.
user4639281
Because triage is useless.
02:42
I'm sure we've had this exact conversation before... And that we will again. Sad.
user4639281
I would, in fact, much rather an option that sent a Q to the close queue from the H&I as opposed to one that sends it back to triage where they are just going to choose the wrong option again.
user4639281
@Mogsdad inorite? I distinctly remember saying all of this multiple times in the past.
@TinyGiant But... all the shiny badges!
user4639281
lol, it should count as a completed review task
@TinyGiant I remember a meta post that started basically saying: H&I queue needs to improve input. *6 months later* We need to improve input
02:45
Apparently, you've never said "H&I", not even there. (Search be borked.)
user4639281
lol * 2
Never has one line of code provided so much joy...
Hmm. You need to search for H&I. Nice and intuitive.
user4639281
lol
this site runs on aspx. No wonder
02:51
@TinyGiant BTW... you have complained about H&I "volleyball" enough that you should install my script just to lower your blood pressure.
user4639281
Lol
Look at me, I'm always happy!
@Drew no...
.net
Ok. I disabled my H&I zapper, and gave it another try. This is what I got. Zapper re-enabled!
@josilber - what would be the right move on that?
@Mogsdad Right move on what?
02:55
Nothing I can edit in will stop it from being "too broad".
@josilber The H&I question from the line above my ping to you.
@Braiam typically, .aspx file extensions are associated with ASP.NET
Of the available options, only "This is very low quality" is close to right.
What is the full set of typically available options?
btw, the new timeline is awesome!
02:57
(it says not reviewable right now)
@josilber I wonder if that's because of my close vote?
Not sure.
(Wouldn't that be GREAT?!)
user4639281
Probably because someone flagged it as VLQ
tbh I pretty quickly became frustrated with this queue and went elsewhere
02:59
@Braiam Is that what you did? VLQ flag?
If I were reviewing and my only options where edit, looks ok, and VLQ flag, I would skip the review
post needs to be closed
and does not need a vlq flag
@Mogsdad yes
@josilber Exactly my point.
user4639281
@josilber that is exactly the point
I figure the flag will get declined, unless the post is closed first.
03:00
yeah, and I remember the majority of posts I encountered in that queue having that property
user4639281
@Shog9 So I should edit the crap questions and send them to the homepage? That seems to defeat the whole point of Triage / H&I stopping bad questions from being shown there. — Tiny Giant 11 mins ago
user4639281
Apparently flagging as VLQ shouldn't be done in there
> If you come across something in the Help and Improvement queue that's just... Painfully bad... You now have an escape hatch, a way to send it back into Triage for a second look.
user4639281
And instead I should magically edit it into an on-topic question even though that isn't possible.
03:02
It was decided that the VLQ flag should piggy back any question back to the triage queue
user4639281
Which shog just negated in his response to my inquiry above.
@Braiam Check your flags - do you have a flag on that post now? Because if you do, and the post doesn't get closed before a mod reviews the flag, you can end up with a declined flag. Do that a few times, and face a flag ban. Then you complain on Meta and get abused.
@Mogsdad nope, I don't have a flag
Huh, interesting, you don't have a pending flag on that post
I didn't even casted a flag, according to the system
03:05
That's good news. Not what I had understood, though.
VLQ all teh things!
user4639281
You won't see the flag unless it doesn't get closed in the H&I, if users choose looks ok or requires improvement, the flag then goes to a mod queue IIRC
an actually good question on the H&I queue stackoverflow.com/review/helper/10886733
ok, now I see a flag
tick tick tick
user4639281
So.... shog is saying we should just skip horrible content that doesn't actually qualify for the VLQ flag. Further adding the realization that Triage / H&I is completely useless.
03:23
@josilber you see a "triage" entry in the timeline? stackoverflow.com/posts/34780997/timeline
cool, I see none!
oh, is there a new post timeline?
yeah, for normal mortals
nice, nice
03:25
I see the triage entry in this post stackoverflow.com/posts/34715092/timeline, but not my own H&I entry
nor the one that sent it there in first place
I think the triage entry will disappear from the timeline once the review is complete.
Ah interesting, so it only includes current reviews
that's what observation tells me
which is why I asked a support question meta.stackoverflow.com/q/314685/792066
user4639281
@josilber except for suggested edits
what about reopen votes?
or close?
03:31
I've seen close reviews
yup, the review entry was removed as soon as I casted the last closevote
Cool, post timeline is pretty great so glad they revamped it
> user posted after being shown a quality ban warning
that's the most cool feature
@Braiam how do you see that?
/posts/<id>/timeline
@cimmanon timeline
03:42
oh nice :D
user4639281
03:56
@Braiam has your VLQ flag been processed yet?
@TinyGiant disputed
btw, someone may want to close this stackoverflow.com/review/close/10887091
where does this thing belong ? stackoverflow.com/q/34410942
@Drew nowhere... CTF-like questions tend to be closed everywhere
why can't it get over the 4 vote hurdle then
04:31
@rob he moved the Q
This question is about the spelling of Nginx. Is it on-topic? It is about “software tools commonly used by programmers; and is a practical, answerable problem” as of http://stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic, but I wouldn’t say it’s “unique to software development”…

http://stackoverflow.com/q/34779594/4642212
user4639281
@Xufox ^^^ that was my answer by the way
@TinyGiant I CV’d it, although I’m not sure this would hypothetically be on-topic on SF, either.
user4639281
@Xufox No, that's why I didn't choose the migration option. It is unfortunate that serverfault is mentioned in that close reason
find some non-migration CV reason. I recall a posting from Rene about egg on peeps faces in migration attempts
user4639281
04:47
Yeah, don't migrate crap, and never migrate unless you're absolutely sure it will be well recieved on the target site.
That would be an embarrassment to send to SF
user4639281
Which is a good reason to remove the reference to sf from the reason
05:06
that code is but a fragment needed to debug it
user4639281
05:18
Alright @Mogsdad I've become enlightened by Shog on the VLQ aspect.
user4639281
Basically, stop worrying about everyone else, step out of the queue and vote to close, then move on to the next post. If someone else wants to take responsibility for the post by editing, that is on them. As well, if someone wants to take the gamble of flagging VLQ, that is on them as well.
I can't believe how much poor quality posts are out there without even a single close vote !
user4639281
@KevinBrown seems to only be used in relation to ios, however, it could use some disambiguation.
what is a good meta reference suggesting why close votes are limited? Is the reason "Hey go out and answer questions when you are depleted"
Rob
Rob
Not really sure. Might have something to do with preventing abuse and/or deterring people from writing a script which automatically tries to CV bad questions.
05:28
The very questions that blow to begin with
@Drew - Its probably to prevent serial closing of questions?.. Something that will probably prevent bots from working for you tirelessly :P
like scale it up like flags at 100 / day. We could use 200 CV a day
Rob
Rob
Might be an idea to allow unlimited/more votes for particular users for particular cleanup events
We simply have to pass up bad questions because they aren't bad enough and have to save our fresh powder for the horrible ones
@Drew - Ya. I guess the requirement elicitation did not think that people would sit in chatrooms and close questions. They probably thought that people just close questions as and when they see them.. Frankly I completely agree with you.. If you have a review queue, you should allow more CVs
user4639281
05:33
5
A: What actions are rate-limited, and why?

TheTXIYou can prove that you aren't a bot now, but you can't prove that you aren't a bot five minutes from now.

user4639281
That's the best I can find
danke
user4639281
Tonnes of questions about what the limits are, not very many about why.
Rob
Rob
05:34
115k user
user4639281
posted in '10
Rob
Rob
Ah, right
Just noticed
user4639281
Not causing a problem, so it shouldn't be flagged.
user4639281
We could close the question though
user4639281
Then the whole shebang would be deleted in 9 days
05:35
@Rob - Its a 5 year old answer.. He was probably new then :)
we all have answers like that lurking in our SO profiles :)
user4639281
probablu, awesome
@TinyGiant - Not a native english speaker.. :P
user4639281
(just digging the new word, love it)
speaking of cookies
user4639281
If we've got 4 other users who want to cast a close vote on that old question, I'll vtc as too broad. I don't want to put a close request in for it though.
Rob
Rob
05:39
Is it spam if the link solves the problem, though by downloading an app rather than programatically? Or is it just a really really bad answer?
user4639281
@Rob the website is blacklisted, that means that it has been identified as spam in the past and added to smokey's regex
Rob
Rob
Right - I mean more in terms of flagging the answer, though
it is easily NAA... I went spam
Rob
Rob
Since it's not blacklisted on SE, and it does kind of provide a (terrible terrible) solution
user4639281
Meh, I flagged as spam.
05:41
that will win too
user4639281
I'm not going to say you should, that's why I didn't sd k it
user4639281
Plus, based on the design inconsistencies, and the fact that they can apparently download anything at all anywhere ever, I'd say it isn't a professional website.
user4639281
Anyways, the reason it isn't blacklisted on SE is because then the spammer would just change the domain name.
user4639281
It's easier to let the spam through, then delete it.
ha
Rob
Rob
05:45
Yep guess so
06:08
(Reason why it isn't a dupe edited into the question, at the end)
user4639281
If that question gets closed, the rest of the canonicals on the site should be closed. But, I digress. I guess we should all be out closing canonicals.
06:29
Nonsense. That collection question isn't a canonical.
Please actually -read- the meta thread.
user4639281
I did, and I voted as I saw fit.
And if you disagree with the idea behind a meta thread, put that in an answer! Don't just close it as dupe.
Especially if the dupe does not answer the question.
user4639281
It does as far as I can see, but I'm not invested in it enough to worry about it anymore.
If you're not invested enough, then don't cv it as dupe
The 2 subjects are unrelated. The closed thread is about a specific case that is textbook "too broad", and how to handle that. The canoniccal definition doesn't come close to answering it.
user4639281
I cared was invested in it enough to cast my votes on it, other users agreed with me, other users agree with you.
user4639281
06:34
If I was the only one who thought that, it would never have been closed in the first place.
Because no-one ever blindly agrees with close votes
user4639281
Now that would be a bad thing, though it wouldn't be my doing.
user4639281
I didn't post a close request, I merely cast my vote.
user4639281
If users take enough stock in my word to completely ignore everything, shut their eyes and vote, well that is on them.
user4639281
I cast my vote, I cannot be blamed for other users agreeing with me.
06:37
That first closevote does push it in a review queue
A queue with plenty of robo-reviewers. So yes, you can be blamed.
user4639281
So now I'm to blame for robo-reviewers reviewing?
user4639281
Geez, I must be awefully powerful.
No, but the first close-vote does push it into a queue that's broken
user4639281
Is it my fault that the queue is broken?
Missing my point.
user4639281
06:40
Am I no longer allowed to use my votes as I see fit?
That first vote is a significant responsibility.
user4639281
No, it's a vote. Nothing less and nothing more.
Since it has more effect than any of the following votes.
user4639281
If a user wants to take it upon themselves to blindly click buttons, that is on that user.
user4639281
My vote has the exact same effect as any following votes.
06:41
You don't see how that first vote is different?
user4639281
It counts exactly the same.
user4639281
I could see if I had a dupe-hammer, but I don't
Pushing it into the review queue, making users second-guess whether or not the thread is on-topic?
Users that wouldn't have considered it a dupe without existing votes...
@Cerbrus - (I am sorry but..) I agree with Tiny.. I don't think the first vote (irrespective of what it does) should be the point of concern..
user4639281
So I'm the only user on the site that can consider a dupe now?
06:43
Missing my point again
That first vote has more effect than any following vote
user4639281
I suggested that it may be a duplicate, and put that suggestion up for review.
user4639281
You're suggesting that the review system is broken, I've reviewed that suggestion, and my vote is that it is not.
A suggestion that can't be disputed, only agreed with
= broken
user4639281
Sure it can.
user4639281
You can vote to leave open.
06:45
Not on the question itself
user4639281
There isn't ever very main questions in the close vote queue on meta.
Votes to leave open don't weigh against votes to close
user4639281
Yes they do
user4639281
5 votes remove the question from the queue, leave open or otherwise
Not on the question itself.
There is no option to dispute a cv
user4639281
06:46
I've never seen more than two questions in the close queue on meta at once.
user4639281
Likewise, there is also a reopen queue.
user4639281
A single reopen vote puts a question into that queue
I've gotta get moving to work...
Tyyl.
I don't see how these will ever be anything other than a gunny sack full of crap
user4639281
@Drew dupe target, as with all canonicals.
06:52
I adore the concept btw. The use of which in practice, highly suspect. Not sure what sort of tar trap @MsYvette is spooking up with the Android one

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