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12:23 AM
@Closey starting
 
@Mogsdad By the power of the Vote! Review!
 
There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[3rd-party] [third-party]"
There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[google-docs] [google-spreadsheet] [google-apps-script]"
There are no items for you to review, matching the filter "[forms]"
@Closey next tags
 
Refreshing the tag listing. Please wait...
@Mogsdad The next 5 tags are: 140, 111, 92, 73, 72
 
12:39 AM
Thank you for reviewing 40 close votes today; come back in 23 hours to continue reviewing.
 
@Mogsdad Thanks for reviewing! To see more information use the command last session stats.
 
@Closey last session stats
 
@Mogsdad Your last completed review session ended 14 seconds ago and lasted 16 minutes and 11 seconds. You reviewed 40 items, averaging a review every 24 seconds.
 
user4639281
@mogsdad know any trick for displaying 110,000 input elements on a page without crashing chrome?
 
@KevinBrown You'd need 10 more downvoters, but only 5 delete votes.
 
12:41 AM
@Mogsdad Oh right, I always forget that delete votes exist
 
@TinyGiant Ugh, no.
@KevinBrown Want to change the strategy on that one?
 
user4639281
Damn, guess I'll have to come up with some better magic.
 
If we get a few close votes, it will show up in the 10K tools, and then likely get voted out by other folks.
 
@TinyGiant The clear solution is to design it differently (and without 110k elements)
 
@KevinBrown Actually, it just needs 2 more delete votes.
 
12:45 AM
@Mogsdad The question does?
 
@KevinBrown Yep. I thought it had enough votes on the answers to need 5 deletes, but no, it just needed 3. It has mine - 2 more and it's gone.
 
@Mogsdad Ah, then yes changing that to be deleted would probably work better
 
user4639281
@KevinBrown well I'm basically taking the results of a mysql query and creating a table out of it where each field is an input element. Altering the resulting list and pressing the apply button sends an update query matching the changes made then runs the select query and generates the table all over again.
 
user4639281
The problem is that if I use classic pagination, I can't total the transactions for the entire query... but seeing as it is the input elements that cause the slow down and not the size of the query itself, I can load the entire query via JSON and paginate the table itself, only showing a certain number of rows while still holding the whole query.
 
user4639281
I just cannot display them all at once, but they can exist.
 
1:18 AM
@TinyGiant is the problem with displaying or having them as part of the dom?
 
user4639281
1:56 AM
@cimmanon displaying them. when they are hidden it runs fine
 
@TinyGiant so dont display them all at once. lemmie see if i can find it...
1
A: How to avoid repetitive actions in table rows?

cimmanonHow you go about this depends on if the actions are exclusive or not (if you're deleting a record, what's the point of being able to edit it?) and whether the user will want to perform a mix of actions in one submission (delete some records, export some other records). A radio control might be y...

 
user4639281
@cimmanon All I'm really worried about is attaching an event listener to the scroll event. But if I can get away with just toggling the visibility (I haven't tested that yet) instead of the display property, then I'll just define a visible zone and set the visibility of all elements in either direction that aren't hidden until it reaches an element that is hidden in each direction, minimizing the impact on scrolling.
 
why would you attach an event listener to the scroll event?
 
user4639281
To hide the elements not currently in view.
 
user4639281
I have to be able to view all of the elements on the page, but the ones outside of the viewable area don't need to be visible.
 
2:06 AM
that sounds pretty terrible from a performance and a UX perspective
 
user4639281
Well, the only option without attaching an event listener to the scroll event is to fake pagination, but that carries its own UX issues
 
user4639281
Such as the user questioning whether changing pages will void their changes to the transaction list.
 
i dont see why you would want to submit all of those form fields all at once, how much data is actually changing per submit?
 
user4639281
Only the changed fields
 
user4639281
The majority of the time it won't be nearly that many fields displayed.
 
2:09 AM
how do you know which ones were changed?
 
user4639281
I have a funky object pattern that holds references to each created node and its original value.
 
user4639281
Then I send the relevant data via json encoded post variable.in an ajax request to a php page.
 
user4639281
it ties the fields changed for each row to its corresponding unique id.
 
user4639281
@cimmanon visibility works as well.
 
2:37 AM
Lol everything I flag has a Mogsdad or josilber comment.
 
user4639281
lol
 
Oh, sorry, some of them have Lynn Crumbling comments.
 
user4639281
I have to get back into the review queues once I'm done working on this program.
 
3:04 AM
@durron597 Is that spam? It was talking about html when I clicked it
 
3:34 AM
@josilber Did you read the question?
 
@durron597 I see -- the question is specifically about ordering the heading tags, and the answer doesn't address that.
 
@josilber It's a link to a totally irrelevant site. It's spam, but I custom flagged.
 
Answer is basically "headings can affect accessibility -- here's a link to my blog"
 
@josilber exactly, which is why I reported it.
 
4:19 AM
but for those who didn't read the transcript from yesterday, I'm taking the liberty to poke you here again;
18
Q: Tags in need of constant attention

tripleeeHow do we cope with tags which continuously attract off-topic content? An example is the grub tag which was picked up in this related question: Off-topic boot loader/firmware questions not being closed However, there seems to be a more systemic underlying problem which IMHO is not particularly...

star pls?
 
 
2 hours later…
user4639281
6:02 AM
@cimmanon well, I successfully made chrome load 119,691 form fields. I saved the most on performance when I realized that if I'm storing references to the nodes, they don't even have to exist in the DOM. Their values are saved even if they are not part of the DOM. So, I made a pagination function that appends the requested rows to the DOM and removes those that were appended from the previous request (or existed when the request was initially loaded).
 
user4639281
It took about two minutes to load the initial request, but every action after that took no time at all. Now is time for micro-optimization. That whole "it doesn't matter unless you're doing it over 100,000 times", well now I'm doing it 120,000 times.
 
9:28 AM
FWIW the <title> still leaks the actual question title and one of the tags on deleted posts
cosmetic problem; just idly wondering if it's a bug or a feature
for example, the two recent "online training" posts by SmokeDetector could perhaps somehow still end up in google results, I'm guessing
also, any particular reason "online training" is not prohibited just like "problem" and "question"?
 
@tripleee Raise this on meta?
Nvm, forgot one obvious fact - deleted questions are not visible to public bots
 
ah, goody, thanks
 
10:09 AM
Done
 
10:24 AM
0
Q: Can we ban titles containing "online" and "training"?

tripleeeJust like you cannot put a question title containing "question" or "problem", could we please block titles containing "online" and "training" together? Not sure if this is a recent trend, but just during the last couple of hours, the following spam questions have been closed: Best Online SAP F...

 
Ugh - ignore my comment on that post - I glanced over the "together" bit
 
10:54 AM
@JonClements You were not alone, it seems ... -3 so far
 
Sam
@nhahtdh Past deleted posts, sure. But questions yet to be deleted, is a different story. In fact, there's one bot which actually does this (in attempt to detect LQ posts).
 
11:18 AM
@tripleee I think while it's well intended... actually making spammers more clever is kind of counter-productive... that spam can be identified by the community and be gone in minutes - the poster gets spam rammed etc...self-solving problem at the end of the day :p
 
yeah, maybe so ...
I think I got enough downvotes that I will actually receive a badge for deleting the question (-:
so now for the opposite question ... can the bot look for "problam", "problm", "probelm", etc?
or more like, does it already?
 
Yam
Yam v2 started (debug).
 
@ArtjomB. Yeah, that is pure gold! (-:
 
11:28 AM
oh yes
so ... any clever ideas for what to do about the morass of etc from a quality-assurance point of view?
getting a popup like they have for SQL would be a good start, but I was under the impression that is rather hard to get for other tags?
is there an established procedure for that? do we post to meta about each tag separately? etc
 
11:56 AM
Morning
 
Sam
Morning
 
(no, it's not!)
 
@tripleee I reject your reality and substitute my own.
3
 
grey dreary afternoon, SE wind 8 m/s
 
that's a decent breeze.
(yes I did google m/s to mph conversion)
 
12:01 PM
(don't get me started about crazy Merkin weather sites who think we want the wind in km/h)
 
I do
 
Hi there
 
Wished to ask for advice on this question, I vote to close as is already enough borderline. May I have your point of view on it ?
 
I VTC'ed it as off topic belongs on serverfault.
afk
 
12:14 PM
sorry for repeatedly spamming this, but I'm surprised this is not getting any feedback at all in this particular chat room ... Any takes on how to approach this as a continuous activity, rather than a periodic task?
21
Q: Tags in need of constant attention

tripleeeHow do we cope with tags which continuously attract off-topic content? An example is the grub tag which was picked up in this related question: Off-topic boot loader/firmware questions not being closed However, there seems to be a more systemic underlying problem which IMHO is not particularly...

 
12:25 PM
back
@tripleee What we need are dedicated people in those tags that can take care of it or at least seed close votes and then bring it up here that they have bunch of stuff pending. I am not sure how many people though treat those tags as "main" tags
 
@tripleee Well, it seems to be the only automatic way (in the current system) to teach users who ask new questions that not all questions belong on SO would be giving them one of those warnings. Does it make sense to let the community formulate those warnings without the help of SE developers for example by introducing an optional warning box on tag wikis?
 
@ArtjomB. I think I like your thinking
@NathanOliver I'm a bit skeptical about anything which requires people to discover and figure out how to use this channel, unless it gets a much more official-looking blessing
apart from the scalability issue
but thanks for your feedback, both of you!
 
@tripleee Yeah I am not saying that is the solution. It is just what could be done right now.
 
12:40 PM
morning!
editing...
 
I fixed the alignment
 
ok, thanks. I just took the easy road and did <pre>
also, what's with revision 3?
 
my tab key actually tabs in the editor
IDK. maybe I stole the alignment edit from the OP?
 
shrug
oh great, new stack exchange podcast is out and no rss feed
 
I already have the gold badge and don't get any rep so not like it hurts anything.
got a meetting to get to. be back in like 45 minutes
 
12:53 PM
cya
 
Yam
Shutdown successful.
Yam v2 started (debug).
 
1:09 PM
boom you too
why "boom"?
 
because, reasons
I guess because we made that post explode, with closure?
I'm not sure of the roots, but it's what we say
it's like salad language, IDK why it's there, it just is
 
1:25 PM
back
 
wb
can you look at the link above? I already rolled back once, rollback again?
 
With/without the wall of HTML, there's still no question there. I'd leave it to OP to find and include one.
 
true, i'll back off (and wait for the post to be closed)
 
@gunr2171 and @NathanOliver goes all "it's a dessert topping and a floor wax!"
 
I rolled it back again. I think the OP might have been rolling them back as it was getting rid of the fields
 
1:30 PM
well, it's -7 and 3 CVs, I think we did our job
time to move on
 
@PaulRoub I just want it looking half way decent so it doesn't get edited after it is closed and possibly reopened.
I CV'ed as well
^^ how was that upvoted? Oh I see
 
hey all
 
hello
 
Sam
Hiya
 
1:43 PM
^ yep, voted
 
@PaulRoub Thanks. Mod declined my flag on that ??? :-/
Ugh. IIRC I got two declined flags last night while asleep, and I can only find one of them.
I'm either remembering wrong, or it's so far buried in my flags I can't find it.
 
That will teach you to flag 100 flags per day :P
 
@gunr2171 Make sure you get the gangsta hand motions right when you say "boom", otherwise it's a fail.
 
1:58 PM
45
Q: Categorized views in past flags (helpful/declined/disputed)

Camil StapsI like to know it when I do or see something wrong. So I really like our flagging history (x moderator attention flags, y deemed helpful, z declined, etc.) I specifically find the declined / disputed flags interesting, because one can learn from his faults. However, now you have to scroll throug...

 
@durron597 @JonClements Probably found your oldest flag and declined it.
 
?
what's going on - why the pinging?
 
@JonClements I think I got two declined flags last night and I can't find one of them.
I'm not sure why he pinged you for what's almost surely a joke.
 
Sorry Jon I didn't actually mean to ping you. I just did the @ out of habit.
 
0
A: Categorized views in past flags (helpful/declined/disputed)

durron597I'm fairly certain I got two declined flags last night. However, I was only able to find one of them. Because my flag history currently has pending flags that go back at least 15 pages (most of them have been handled, but not all), trying to find the rare exception among a huge list of helpful N...

 
2:04 PM
@NathanOliver don't worry about it :)
 
does this question seem clear to anyone else? stackoverflow.com/questions/32587307/…
 
@durron597 fairly sure I've declined one flag in the last hour or so
 
i dont know if they cant figure out how to write a gradient, how to use a gradient as a border, or if they dont know how to pass in 3 arguments to a mixin
 
@JonClements Are you able to see a short list of all the declined flags by a particular user?
 
yes - why
 
2:07 PM
@JonClements Can you see if I've had more than one declined flag in the last day
 
you can already see that - don't me for that
 
@JonClements I can't find the second flag though.
I was sure I had 35 declined flags when I went to bed and now I have 37
It's not that big a deal, don't worry about it.
 
Sam
humans lego people and their virtual internet points
 
@BillWoodger oh man, I can't use any of my auto-comments because they are tailored to a single close reason. That posts fits like 3 at the same time.
 
Thanks peeps. Getting there. One more to go. Could make the last one off-topic, recommendation...
 
2:21 PM
@BillWoodger boom
 
Cheers muchly.
 
2:44 PM
Is it normal to get a "helpful" on an NAA flag, but for the answer to still be undeleted?
 
I read something a while ago saying something like "if the person made the flag in good faith, but you don't need to do anything, just mark as helpful and move on".
don't know if that's what's going on
then again, the question is a recommendation post
 
that question should probably just be deleted
 
@gunr2171 I had wondered about that. It's a closed question.
 
how many DVs does it have?
 
@TylerH 0
I'm out.
 
2:46 PM
because all those answers are the same "try this resource [link]"
 
@TylerH I got "disputed" on another answer on the question.
TBF, if its links broke, it at least contained words you could google with.
 
@Mogsdad Yes, if it has a positive score then it won't be deleted or if it was deleted by the community, but OP undeleted it.
 
@ArtjomB. Then die it must.
 
Always downvote crap before flagging.
 
Flagging answers to resource requests as NAA is kind of a waste of time anyway, or not? Because it will all have been for nothing once the question gets deleted...
 
2:49 PM
@Siguza +1, Yeah, don't do that, just vote to close the question.
6
Q: Should I flag link only answers to tool request questions?

durron597I know that, on most sites throughout Stack Exchange (except Software Recs), tool / resource requests are off topic. I know what to do with these questions, flag / vote to close them on that particular site. However, if I come across a new link only answer (from the front page or the new-answe...

 
@durron597 questions already closed here
but Mogsdad is just out of DVs
 
@durron597 What bugs me about the advice in the answer there, as with so many other Meta answers, is that the additional effort it would take to save the question & one or two helpful answers becomes a barrier to removing the pile of crap that has also accumulated. There have been tons of upvotes on these questions and answers, so there are people who may be motivated to save it - but they aren't improving it.
@TylerH When my deletes are restocked at "midnight", I'll circle back to that one. If it hasn't been deleted yet, I'll vtd. Moving on.
Similar problem with the answers on this one we closed yesterday. Once it has aged appropriately, the question should be deleted. Since the link-only answers have positive scores, flagging them is unlikely to eliminate them. (Feel free to down-vote, btw.)
 
3:16 PM
@Mogsdad I only see two...
 
@Siguza I downvoted the 4 questions
 
man got a declined find. I was only 4 flags away from having 100.
> As i sadly cant Comment yet
I see delete me
 
@durron597 I rarely see answers in French, my native tongue! Flagged as NAA nonetheless, it says "thanks, your website is really nice"
 
I was tempted to edit in a google translation but figured I shouoldn't
 
3:26 PM
cordovaols
 
@NathanOliver that's what I see too
 
@Tunaki I speak enough french to know what "Bonjour, Merci beaucoup ce code m'a bien servi." means :)
 
I see "Hi, thanks a lot (for the good code?)"
 
this code was very useful to me
thanks again for sharing your knowledge
 
3:32 PM
@durron597 "Apple network discovery service, thank you for the good car and code, good serving mam"
did I get it right? :P
 
nice
 
@Siguza That's what happens when the questions no longer match the query! Thanks - those will now go away without any other voting.
Downvote to oblivion... stackoverflow.com/a/1034759/1677912
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/32589791/… what kind of answer is this? "You're on the right track, use JavaScript"
 
I need a "borderline comment" auto-comment
 
got this in the reopen queue: stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/9516655
should we open to close it as a tool request or just leave it closed?
 
3:43 PM
@NathanOliver leave it closed, he just edited what he wanted with different words
"I am looking for a similar plugin or feature"
should be closed as "tool", but not enough effort to open and close again
 
Yeah I get that but the close reason no longer applies
okay
 
let me find that meta post...
17
Q: Should we reopen a question if it is closed with a wrong reason?

user000001The question in question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18515135/triple-less-than-sign-in-bash It is closed as "Questions asking for code must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Include attempted solutions, why they didn't work, and the expected results. S...

@RaGe, I appreciate the effort in the edit, but the question is still asking for a off-site resource. While it's not "unclear" anymore, it should still be closed for another reason, which is usually not worth the effort. — gunr2171 5 secs ago
 
when it comes to closing questions, the ends justify the means, it seems
 
user4639281
4:00 PM
> But if a post is closed as a duplicate of a question that is not a duplicate (and the original still needs to be closed for another reason), it can confuse new users and new programmers, it is probably worth asking a mod to change the close reason to point to a more appropriate duplicate or closed for the correct reason.
 
user4639281
So what we've done in the past with duplicates is justifiable if you use that post as a metric.
 
user4639281
As long as it is not actually a duplicate.
 
Yeah I can see where you don't want an incorrect dupe. Just wasn't sure what we needed to do if the question who stay closed but the reason should be changed.
 
user4639281
@NathanOliver Hopefully it's gone in 9 days.
 
user4639281
4:08 PM
@SmokeDetector ignore- edited, love the title.
 
@TylerH Thanks but those results did not help me. — Nath Turton 1 min ago
Wow, he moved through those search results at the lightning speed of like 400 per minute
that's impressive
 
user4639281
@TylerH Wrong terminology, collapsing header
 
@TinyGiant no, it's not a collapsing header
codepen.io/anon/pen/NGxBKQ see his codepen, it's just smooth scrolling
 
user4639281
That's the term for the effect that the user is trying to achieve.
 
user4639281
4:16 PM
view the demo at the bottom of that link.
 
user4639281
The user calling it parallax doesn't mean they are actually looking for parallax.
 
that must be the only website that calls what it's doing "collapsing header"
because it's not a header and it's not collapsing
 
user4639281
It is a header, and it appears to collapse.
 
@TinyGiant yes, I agree. I even wrote several comments explaining to the OP that they aren't using parallax
 
user4639281
as opposed to you having the same header at the top of the page.
 
4:18 PM
It's a background image, and it's fixed; it appears to be scrolled over
 
user4639281
where it scrolls with the rest of the page.
 
user4639281
It's supposed to be a header.
 
a la background-attachment: fixed
 
user4639281
Whether you view it as such or not is your prerogative.
 
user4639281
Yes, but you can also fit elements and such in there, it doesn't just have to contain the image.
 
4:20 PM
using a background image as a header doesn't make it a header
but either way, the OP is not using parallax like they think they are
 
user4639281
its all intent.
 
user4639281
If the intent is that it be a header, it's a header.
 
user4639281
If it had words in it would you think it was a header?
 
no
 
user4639281
lol
 
4:21 PM
a background-image can't be a header, it's a background-image
it's not an element
 
user4639281
Well, whether you recognize the concept or not, it is a concept.
 
there's such a thing as a collapsible header but it's an element that collapses (or scrolls up and stays put). You can make something that looks similar to a collapsible header with a fixed bg-image being scrolled over but that's a fixed background image, not a collapsible header
 
user4639281
It's describing the visual effect, not the mechanical.
 
user4639281
It appears that when scrolling down the header collapses, if you don't look at the code behind the visual.
 
If you think it's a header, which you shouldn't, because it doesn't look like that
now if the theoretical text you mentioned earlier were in an element that was also fixed and scrolled over, that might be arguable as being header text
 
user4639281
4:25 PM
Page heading, foobarzle whatever you want to call it.
 
but if it's part of the background-image it can't be a header, because a header is content and a background-image is not content
 
user4639281
Defined by what? Images can be just as much content as text
 
user4639281
How does setting it as a background image as opposed to an image element say anything about its role as content.
 
@TinyGiant image elements yes, background-images no
CSS is for styling
HTML is for content
if you have an HTML element with an image, that image should be part of your content, part of the reason you're viewing the page
 
user4639281
So if I make a div, set the image as a background image and use it as content, whether that be a product image or whatnot, then it therefore cannot ever be seen as content...
 
4:28 PM
if you have a CSS background-image, that's just to make the page look nice
@TinyGiant that's correct, you're doing it wrong
and any designer worth their salt will tell you so
 
user4639281
But what if I want to be able to change the source of the image at different sizes?
 
picture element
 
user4639281
You cant change the source of an image element using css.
 
user4639281
So I would have to either use bleeding edge technology that is not widely supported, or use javascript which has horrible performance for the same task
 
"horrible performance" I'd need to see a jsperf to back that statement up. Unless you are Facebook worried about billions of hits, there's likely not actually a performance concern
not to mention mileage varies with polyfills
 
user4639281
4:32 PM
It's about intent, if I intend to make an image a background image, if I do my job right (whether I use an image element or background-image) then it should appear as a background image. If I intend to make it content and I do my job right then it should appear as content no matter how I achieve the visual effect.
 
you probably wouldn't notice a difference in performance using something like gsap
 
user4639281
@TylerH Repaint lag when resizing the window.
 
user4639281
And again, why go out of my way to do something that can be done easily using CSS?
 
logo on SO just updated....
 
user4639281
@rene more orange and less grey?
 
4:34 PM
yes
 
I'm not gonna continue to explain what good design is to you. I'm more concerned about why clicking on this -2 rep downvote link takes me to your answer, which is at a different URL
 
@TinyGiant background story blog.stackexchange.com/2015/09/…
 
user4639281
@TylerH What?
 
user4639281
@TylerH I don't understand the last sentence, maybe some more context?
 
@TinyGiant I have a -2 for downvoting a post, which I can only assume is deleted now, but when I click on the hyperlink in my profile to go to the post, it takes me straight to your answer
I thought it always took me straight to the question if you can't see the (now deleted) answer
 
user4639281
4:38 PM
@TylerH What's the link?
 
user4639281
If you got -2 it would mean that your post was downvoted...
 
0
A: Trying to have a number increment when div is clicked

Tiny GiantThis is much simpler than you are being led to believe. You can simply use the JavaScript increment prefix (++) to increment the variable directly from the onclick attribute. In this example I've used a button to simulate a clickable element, and I've wrapped the onclick attribute in a console.l...

oh
I think I was just on your profile instead of mine
I was wondering why it wasn't showing up in my rep graph anymore
 
@rene a little disappointed to learn that the logo was the product of spec work
 
user4639281
@TylerH Also, I never argued it was good design, but design doesn't have to be good to exist.
 
@cimmanon is that also true if they have their own designers on the payroll?
 
4:44 PM
@rene yes. look at all of those people who contributed a logo and got paid nothing. how was that fair to them?
 
Ok, I agree with that not being fair.
 
@TinyGiant true, but it shouldn't be defended, either
 
user4639281
@TylerH Its existence or its goodness?
 
user4639281
If someone is asking about it, whether it is good or not, if there is no duplicate information on stack overfow then why should it not be answered?
 
4:47 PM
@TylerH should have searched harder :p
 
user4639281
@TylerH I was just about to say that, it looks horrible on my browser.
 
explaining what's bad about something is not defending it
 
@TylerH they got that in 15 seconds before you
 
4:49 PM
It's because imgur was being lame and took forever to save my image edit
 
user4639281
@TylerH Saying that it doesn't exist is not helpful.
 
user4639281
That's just misinformation.
 
@TinyGiant who said bad design doesn't exist?
 
user4639281
No you said that the example of bad design that I was originally referring to didn't exist, wasn't a thing, etc. ad nauseam.
 
We're lowering our bars. — Oded ♦ 23 secs ago
Pun train alert
@TinyGiant As I recall I only said the thing you linked to "must be the only example of someone calling it that", not that a collapsible header was not a thing
 
user4639281
4:54 PM
Ugh, ok wow, this discussion is pointless. It is a thing, a subset of the internet calls that thing a "collapsing" (not collapsible) header. I decided to point the user in a direction that I deemed possibly useful. End of discussion.
 
@TinyGiant notice I still have not said "there's no such thing as a collapsible header", so I'm not sure what you were talking about
 

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