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12:37 AM
wow, that's blatantly off topic in addition to being a matter of opinion.
to the extent that it relates to programming at all, it's "what should my program do?".
 
2:22 AM
there are a few different questions that could be intended, depending on the actual MRE, and I'm sure all of them would be duplicates anyway.
Amazing to me that it got +3/-0 previously.
 
3:02 AM
probably just post a separate cv-pls
 
 
1 hour later…
4:53 AM
^ recent activity: spam deleted a week back
 
5:04 AM
0
Q: Tag 'executer-service' should be deleted

AbraI don't know what an executer-service is. The tag now has zero questions. It was used on this question but since that question has to do with Android and since I could not find any mention of executer-service (or variation of it) when I Googled it, I figured it was a mistake on the part of the OP...

 
5:46 AM
Apparently the linked website in this answer allows only a limited number of free views per month. Does that make this answer spam, rather than a simple link-only NAA? There's no (clear) affiliation
 
 
1 hour later…
6:50 AM
Do comments like thanks, +1 for good answer when automatically deleted after flagging also go to mods or not? I think they won't.
 
jps
7:44 AM
@SunderamDubey I think the purpose of the auto delete mechanism is that these flags don't clutter the mod queue.
 
jps
8:28 AM
@Juraj isn't it just off-topic. I don't see any programming related question here.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:41 AM
Possibly not the right chat, but this is spam, albeit in Vietnamese: stackoverflow.com/q/73958396/14853083
 
@TangentiallyPerpendicular thanks for the report, Charcoal is the proper place but it will get picked up from here too
 
@triplee Thanks for the feedback. Noted for next time.
 
10:18 AM
@jps the goal in question would be achieved by writing a C or C++ application for the esp32 micro-controller
 
10:33 AM
Is this salvageable with a substantial edit from the OP? Or is it destined to fall into the Abyss?
 
11:28 AM
 
11:58 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels can you please take a look at this and whether it's a duplicate of something like this?
 
12:14 PM
Morning
 
12:28 PM
See self-answer. Is this page worth keeping? stackoverflow.com/q/63783884/2943403
 
@mickmackusa I would say it's no-repro, though it's too old to put in a request here
 
1:01 PM
@Adriaan hmmm, looks like ultimately just a typo, I guess?
 
1:59 PM
Oh I've been needing to upgrade Office...
 
lol. We did have to update half the phones that connect to exchange yesterday. MS removed legacy connections which was "fun"
 
Yeah, they removed basic auth. Have to use OAuth now
 
It was a nice surprise. We have a tech consultancy group that works for us third party and they never though to inform us that this change was going to happen.
 
2:49 PM
@NathanOliver for once we actually were ahead of the change at my org
@NathanOliver Do you have an O365 subscription at your org? Some of your admins should have been notified like a bazillion times about it
or do you outsource administration/management of your O365 tenant to this 3rd party as well
 
@TylerH I noticed that you edited this one to focus it: stackoverflow.com/q/2391223, but it has since been closed for lack of focus still. Do you think it should be reopened?
 
@GeneralGrievance Looks almost like a dupe of this question
 
@GeneralGrievance Yes it should be reopened
@Machavity Nope, the one by Jitendra is 5 years older and is asking how to comment. The one you linked is asking for best practices
if anything the close reason for the one you linked should be changed to be a dupe of the one Jitendra asked
(as someone already tried to do, looking in the comments)
 
3:04 PM
Not inclined to dupe close the other one, since it does look POB
 
@TylerH We do, but it was purchased through our third party support. They get all the direct MS communications
 
3:36 PM
@NathanOliver ah, that's a big bummer. I'd strongly request they provision at least one person with basic admin role to receive notifications in the O365 admin center/e-mails, if I were you
if they push back you could easily point to this case and say 'um, see how this would be useful for us to have?'
@GeneralGrievance thanks for that follow-up edit btw, I missed the grammatical error from the original format
 
4:00 PM
@TylerH I think we will be doing that. This is the second time they've dropped the ball on breaking changes.
 
 
@tripleee You also shared that same question ;) anyway.
 
yeah, it happens from time to time, but will get cleaned out when a room owner moves old cv-pls requests to the graveyard
 
5:58 PM
@SunderamDubey No comments go to mods after automatic deletion due to flags. However, if a user has a number of comments with validated "unfriendly or unkind" (UU) and/or "harassment, bigotry, or abuse" (HBA) flags within a moderately short period of time, then an automatic flag is raised for moderators which can only be dismissed by explicit moderator action.
 
What's the full form of HBA?
 
6:14 PM
@SunderamDubey UU unfriendly or unkind; HBA harassment, bigotry, or abuse. @stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/flag-posts
 
Ahh thanks ! I don't know the short form :0
 
6:31 PM
@NathanOliver If it helps, the "Message center reader" role is probably the least permissive role just to see updates/messages from MSFT. Of course if they're willing to hand out more access then by all means take it :-)
 
Just make sure whoever is assigned the role spends some time filtering to only the apps/services you're interested in
I have stuff filtered to just SharePoint, Teams, OneDrive, and Office (like Excel or whatever) and I still get like 10 messages a week from them, sometimes more
 
To add to what Tyler said, beware that there is a fair amount of noise with said role
One of their "cute" features is to throw admin notices into an Outlook sidebar
 
Thanks for the advice
 
@Machavity Luckily that is disabled in our environment
I have never seen that before but just looked it up
Maybe because I have Windows notifications disabled
 
6:41 PM
Yeah, with outlook open on a second monitor I don't need windows informing of emails
 
With all instances of my email program closed, and my phone turned off, I don't need Windows informing me of emails.
 
That's one way to achieve inbox zero
 
Ugh, that's a pipe dream.
 
6:59 PM
I did alright with no emails in my inbox (or rather just a couple of read ones that needed to stick around for a week or two) for a while, when our team was m ore adequately staffed
Then we had someone quit w/ no notice on Thanksgiving and my team manager retired in May and no one has filled either position so I've just been swamped every since
 
 
1 hour later…
8:30 PM
@tripleee This appears to be a self admitted self duplicate
 
9:12 PM
@miken32 There are some code answers that seem useful and would be a shame to lose.
 
if they're truly useful, they'll be recreated
 
@gre_gor Maybe, but the question is so poor. It can't even really be edited into shape, there's not even a language requirement. Also it's literally the only question on SO that mentions OVH-SPAMCAUSE so I'm not convinced it's a common requirement.
 
@KevinB Seems like a poor argument for deletion.
@miken32 Why the need to delete? What harm is it causing?
 
@gre_gor are the answers really that useful? They don't even state what language they're in. The question doesn't suggest or mention a language, either, just asks for a tool
 
Maybe it's time for the high-rep users to take a tour of what deletion is all about.
 
9:19 PM
@miken32 as a counterpoint, if it's the only thing one might interact with OVH-SPAMCAUSE for (e.g. if that's a very specific thing), then maybe one question is enough, and that's what the 6k views over nearly 6 years are from?
 
Also the top answer is a link to a private website inaccessible to the vast majority of people
 
It looks like they might be Python?
In this situation we might be able to salvage the question by rephrasing it to ask if there's a way to do it in Python rather than if there's a tool to do it, and delete the top answer? This would require a moderator to help achieve.
But it would change the intent of OP's question. What makes it debatably OK is that otherwise it risks just getting deleted altogether
 
@TylerH I certainly wouldn't be averse to that
 
If only there were moderators frequenting this room to weigh in on helping out with that...
 
Is linking to a potentially shady private website in an answer grounds for deletion by mods?
 
9:25 PM
@TylerH The question is definitely lacking, but it looks like there was some reverse engineering effort put into those answers and it would be a waste of that effort if they were deleted.
 
@miken32 That's questionable, but if the answer is straight up not accessible via a normal web browser, it's effectively a dead link, arguably, and dead-link answers are deleted all the time
 
@miken32 A single bad answer isn't a reason to delete other answers.
 
@miken32 That Q&A is definitely not something that needs to be deleted. It's not even off-topic.
 
I think the top answer is potentially fair even for a Python question, since a general description of how one could do something could be implemented in Python
 
9:26 PM
people waste effort on questions that should be deleted all the time
 
Think about how much effort is wasted on trying to close and delete questions because someone happened to write "Is there a tool that can do this?", as opposed to "How can I do this?" On second thought, don't think about this. I think about that often, and it irritates me.
 
It's basically a tor protocol link. I dunno what the standard is for protocol links that aren't accessible in a normal web browser.
@CodyGray what do you consider wasted? If the question is deleted, is the effort to delete it wasted?
(not to go too off the rails of the discussion...)
 
Everything is wasted.
The time, the value, my life... everything.
 
I think the fact that it involves a Tor hidden service, while maybe making it a worse answer, doesn't disqualify it from being an answer. FTP links are surely allowable, for instance, despite most or all modern browsers having removed support.
 
9:28 PM
Apologies, it was not my intention to trigger existential crises!
 
If you think the answer is not useful, then downvote it. It's not that hard.
 
@RyanM fair point, I forgot browsers didn't support FTP links anymore
well, they do still support sftp don't they?
which is the same protocol but with encryption
 
FTP links have evolved into SFTP links, but then we disabled them because of performance issues.
 
no, that's FTPS
 
I can never keep shell ftp and secure ftp straight
 
9:30 PM
SFTP is SSH File Transfer Protocol
at any rate I don't think either is supported? blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/07/20/…
 
@CodyGray well, yeah, but the issue of having a mod delete the answer was in the context of the idea of revising the post to specify Python since the worthwhile answers all provide python solutions, and to handle all the issues at once
 
I would expect the blog post to at least mention it
 
@TylerH I still don't get it. We don't have mods delete answers because someone thinks they're not very helpful.
 
@RyanM Yeah, you're right, it looks like Chrome, et al removed support for the entire protocol
@CodyGray We have mods delete answers that are delete worthy that normal users can't effectively delete on their own in a reliable/timely fashion
 
Meh, it's more complicated than that. Chrome hasn't dropped support for FTP entirely, it's just disabled by default. Chrome does not, however, support FTPS or FTP via proxies.
@TylerH Irrelevant, since that's not delete-worthy.
"I don't like this answer" and "This answer isn't useful to me" aren't delete reasons.
I can't believe I'm explaining this.
 
9:34 PM
@CodyGray Well, no, it's not irrelevant, given that the discussion involved "is the answer delete-worthy" as a criterion
No one is saying "this answer isn't useful to me and thus should be deleted"
not sure where you're getting that from
 
just the usual gotta save everything mindset
 
What the discussion seems to involve is a bunch of people who want to make the site worse by deleting stuff that potentially has value. I have a real problem with that.
 
Even answers that are useful to me are sometimes delete-worthy. Link-only answers, for example.
 
And every time I look in this room recently, there are people wanting to delete stuff that should not be deleted. So this doesn't bode well.
 
@KevinB I don't think either Cody or I could be fairly argued to have said mindset. We both delete a lot of stuff.
 
9:35 PM
lol
 
Yeah, this isn't really a joke.
 
@CodyGray I don't see an issue here. Someone posted a del-pls, discussion ensued about whether it was delete-worthy. The question ended up not getting deleted. That's the system working as intended.
 
Yeah, I think as long as we continue to foster and support this sort of discussion and second opinions on requests, that's a good thing.
 
It ended up not getting deleted because a moderator stepped in and removed the request. I don't think that is things working as intended, except maybe a fail-safe working as intended. My goal is to prevent the failure condition, thus eliminating reliance on the fail-safe.
This room is relying way too much on fail-safes recently.
 
i don't think it was in danger of being deleted
 
9:39 PM
@CodyGray Well yes, you interjected with mod powers but I don't think it's fair to say it would have gone the other way but for your actions
 
It was certainly on that path, and plenty of other requests have gone down that path, so, yes, I think it's a more than fair assessment.
 
One non-mod RO was seemingly already considering binning the request
 
@CodyGray that's speculation and I don't think it's accurate speculation, personally. For example, I was one of the people who had an early delete vote on it and because of the discussion I was preparing to retract my delete vote depending on the outcome. That would've left it at one delete vote (ostensibly the person who requested it). And it would've been binned due to that as well, meaning it likely would've only attracted further delete votes from anyone looking at the 10k mod tools
 
Though I do agree that we have questionable requests from time to time, but also a few people who make a habit of questioning said requests.
 
I see a very troubling pattern almost every time I look in this room. That's the argument I'm making. I'm not comfortable with it, and I'm not comfortable with relying on fail-safes in every case. Yes, there are people who raise objections. But the onus shouldn't be on them. The system shouldn't hinge upon them doing so.
 
9:43 PM
Perhaps a more productive direction for this discussion would be: how could we avoid this problem?
 
Implementation of escalating consequences for users who make and/or act on invalid requests.
 
That's something that I'd want to approach very carefully, with a particular eye toward not discouraging, at the very least, people from agreeing that their own request was invalid and asking for it to be binned.
 
@CodyGray OK, have you raised the concern you have with the person each time, or been encouraged to raise a topic for a room meeting by an RO? I feel like I have made that suggestion plenty of times before to people with concerns about happenings in the room, though I can't recall if I've made it to you directly about this concern of yours.
@CodyGray We are not able to apply escalating consequences for users short of kicking them from the room repeatedly and that's not really an appropriate response for requests that people just happen to disagree with.
 
I mean, I think kicking someone from the room for 1) a pattern of requests that are, by clear agreement, invalid, and 2) a failure, after warnings, to improve in that regard, would be legitimate.
 
@RyanM Sure, and if someone is doing that I think we are OK with responding thusly, but it requires that we 1. agree the requests are invalid, prima facie and 2. tell the offending user this beforehand that they're not to make such requests. I'm sure we've had to tell a user this once or twice in the past but I don't think miken's request comes even close to that standard
 
9:52 PM
Yeah, I don't think Cody was suggesting that miken should be kicked for that.
 
i havent cast a delete vote in almost 2 weeks, shit hit the fan hard and i've been busy
 
Since its inception, this room has lived 'on the edge', in many ways. Although it may not be the source of bad curation, it does need to be moderated so that it is not seen to encourage and/or support bad curation and the gang mentality. IMHO, the del-pls requests are the most dangerous, in terms of this room's continued existence, because they can put posts beyond the reach of most other users.
 
Musing: an undelete-vote review queue would not be a terrible idea.
2
 
It's not one of the more common issues in the first place because del-pls requests on questions already require that the question be closed, indicating on some level that it's not a good question for the site. Beyond that, it's really a matter of opinion whether the content of the Q (and any As) is worth keeping around or not.
 
(this room is probably the closest the site has to such a queue, currently)
 
9:57 PM
So long as the requester has a good argument for the content being deleted, I don't feel comfortable having a policy threatening them with punishment just because more people disagree w/ them than agree with them. Binning the requests is one thing, but "escalating consequences" is another, and that gets too much into the 'user moderation' realm of things... many of the ROs here are mods, but we're not all mods, and some current mod ROs may not always be ROs here; it's not our place as ROs.
@RyanM I agree
 
Hey - I'm not trying to criticise the current room moderators and ROs. I'm just reiterating Cody's concerns, I guess. Maybe requests for deletion should require more substantial reasons than the current "No Roomba"?
 
If someone is posting del-pls requests and their justification when asked is "it's just crap" or "I don't like it", then yeah, that's a problem and I'm happy to tell them to keep those requests out of here.
 
I think that "So long as the requester has a good argument for the content being deleted" is a perfectly reasonable qualification on any sort of consequences.
 
"good"
 
Thing is, the whole "delete this" mentality is far more widespread than just the regulars in this room. It's an issue (IMHO) that is quite serious, and more suitable for a Meta discussion. But we have to be very careful here, if the room is to be allowed to prolong its existence (and the mostly very good work that it does).
 
10:02 PM
@TylerH No, Tyler, I don't have time to raise a concern with each user each and every time. This is not a reasonable burden to place on someone, especially when the problem is a fundamental flaw in the operation of the system.
 
@AdrianMole Personally, I don't like the rule for del-pls that states "are within 1 downvote of being eligible for delete-votes". While I know that's not exactly what you're talking about, it's a similar concern... it sets the bar lower than what we allow for normally when organically browsing the site.
 
@AdrianMole Exactly.
 
@CodyGray Sorry, but if you're going to accuse the room of having a systemic, recurring problem then yes it is reasonable to ask you to bring some receipts.
 
@TylerH Go check the Graveyard.
I keep all my receipts in there.
 
The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim, so no
 
10:04 PM
Nah
I can just shut it down.
 
del-pls [SOCVR Graveyard]
 
😆
 
The room is only allowed to exist because it is working. When it stops working, it won't be allowed to exist. So arguments from precedent don't really work here.
 
would be a shame, to shut down a room where the mods and staff has visibility, so that it can move to a place where that doesn't exist
 
And, as with developers who break the site and then claim that we are the problem for not taking the time to write carefully-constructed bug reports each and every time, you are not going to get me to agree that the correct solution is for me to argue against each and every wrong request, over and over and over again. I simply don't have time for that, and that's not the way it's supposed to work.
That's not a scalable or reasonable solution.
 
10:06 PM
I don't think anyone's trying to place the burden on you or any one particular person
 
That's certainly how I interpreted it, and it's the response that is made every time someone raises concerns.
I've grown very tired of it.
 
I think it's pretty clear that the vast majority of the work the room does is good work. At the edge, there's some more questionable stuff, and I think we're open to discussing how to solve that.
 
Meh.
 
That's true of any review system, including the queues.
 
That is increasingly becoming less clear to me.
When you can pick a time at random, look at a screenful of transcript, and find at least one request that is invalid, that is, to me, an indication of a serious problem.
 
10:09 PM
You can easily do that with the LQA queue.
Which, to be fair, is a serious problem.
 
Yes. And this, as a cabal of users with privileges to take drastic action, is an even worse case.
 
isn't that the purpose of the room existing? to review these requests?
 
Okay, but the LQA queue has similar powers...
 
in this case it was reviewed, and the majority deemed it not the right action.
 
In fact, it's arguably worse because of the low rep requirement to use it.
 
10:10 PM
@RyanM When you find the button for me to shut down the LQA queue, let me know.
Not really sure how that argument applies to anything.
 
I mean to say that nobody has, to my knowledge, proposed that we shut down the LQA queue because it has issues.
I'd like to try to find solutions to the problem you're discussing, because I think this room has served to train people like me in site moderation. In part through advice from people like you.
The queues have nothing like that, and so having a space where requests can be discussed is really valuable.
 
Yes, I suppose that's true.
But I definitely think the LQA queue has serious issues, and that those issues need to be solved by punishments for incorrect reviews, and that, if these issues are not resolved expediently, it would be preferable to shut it down entirely, because the cure is worse than the disease.
 
C'mon. The entire review queue system has serious issues. Maybe even the entire site. This room has been a great contributing factor in addressing (or attempting to address) some of those issues, so I would be sad to see it end. But it needs some action taken to prevent what could be (and, apparently, is) perceived as cabal mentality.
 
iunno... i think the queues are great
 
I like badges, so I like the queues.
 
10:23 PM
The site has plenty of issues, but those issues are not destructive, which is an entirely different set of circumstances to me.
 
Yeah. Can't disagree.
 
Way, way, way too often in here, the response to an incorrect closure is just "meh, I didn't like the question anyway".
 
But deletion is a far more consequential action than closure. That's my main concern, in terms of this room's profile.
 
Yeah, and the reaction to an incorrect deletion is often worse. :-|
 
I forget what percentage of users have > 10k rep, but it's not very big.
 
10:26 PM
Even for users with > 10k rep, deleted questions are effectively invisible.
 
Another good point, well made.
 
shouldn't they be?
 
@CodyGray I can think of no more than 1-2 users who do this. Most people tend toward more of either arguing why they believe the close reason does in fact apply, or that it was close-worthy for some other reason also.
I agree that this would be a good topic to discuss in a room meeting, though it'd be a lot easier to ensure we're solving the correct problem with specific examples.
I've looked through a few of the messages you've binned in the last few months and I don't see a particularly strong pattern.
I think the main patterns I've seen myself are 1) disagreements over what issues are "not about programming" and 2) which off-topic questions should be deleted.
 
From anecdotal memory, the majority of del-pls requests are for the "Nth Duplicate" reason.
... which is arguably a valid reason, as leaving them can be seen to encourage others to post answers to dupes.
 
Yeah, I don't really like the "enough duplicates"-type reasons except for the "how do I debug [extremely common exception]?" ones
 
10:31 PM
@SotiriosDelimanolis yes, it certainly is. Same answer answers the question
 
in many cases I think they can be useful signposts
 
So, we should instead delete the answers?
 
but like...not for the 2345th "I have a null pointer exception how do I fix it" question
 
"Help my while loop doesn't work"
 
signposts should be judged primarily for the title, but they should also be questions that would have been allowed to stay open if they weren't duplicates.
 
10:33 PM
^ agreed
@KevinB Yeah those 99% not useful, unless it's like...some weird artifact of a particular language that's a common gotcha or something. No specific examples come to mind for while loops, but something like the "why does a == b or c not work?" canonical in Python.
and then judge it on the title/would it have been closeable as some other reason too
 
Just have a canonical for "My code doesn't work, plz Halp."
 
i have a comical one but it's irrelevant. It's comical because none of the commenters even touched the fact that the while loop existed
 
@pppery Seen a couple of those, today, in the Reopen Queue. Unless it's a really terrible question, I'll vote to reopen on principle.
 
why do we get so many off-topic Minecraft questions? Who's propagating the meme that Stack Overflow somehow has anything to do with running Minecraft utilities?
 
10:37 PM
@CodyGray Given how the room functions with completed requests being moved out, the transcript remaining in the room effectively selects for requests which don't have as much support from users in here. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem, just pointing out that there is a bias in the information in the transcript.
I do, in fact, agree that there's a problem and that deletion is done on things which I don't necessarily agree should be deleted, or at least not deleted at the time they are or as rapidly as they are.
I'd also point out that there are substantial potential intervening steps which could be taken between "there's a problem with some of the del-pls requests and "shut the entire room down". The largest step is to just disallow del-pls requests. There are several potential steps between what we have now and that one, but that's a step which should be taken rather than "close the whole thing down", assuming that the issue is limited to deletion.
 
@KarlKnechtel Well, Forge in particular seems to be a modding API but there do seem to be a lot of more clearly off-topic ones.
 
@AdrianMole I don't do much review queing anymore, but personally I would treat duplicates of that the same way as "Needs Debugging Details"
 
(in case I haven't made it clear by now: my stance is that Stack Overflow would be a better site if the bottom 90% or so of questions - in terms of meeting site standards, not necessarily voting or anything else - were closed. It would be better if it were indefinitely closed to new questions, such that people like myself could curate in peace. Doing a proper job of it would probably be hundreds of person-years.)
2
 
@KarlKnechtel I can't agree with the "It would be better if it were indefinitely closed to new questions". The world of software development is constantly changing, and the damage caused by old, bad questions would be trivial compared to a lack of knowledge about about anything new.
 
@pppery Many of the questions closed against that dodgy canonical are perfectly clear. They're just common problems, that should be closed against far better dupes. If I see one in a tag that I have a gold badge for, I'll make the effort to find an appropriate dupe and edit the close reason. But I just don't like those (lazy, IMHO) curators who quickly use such an RTFM target.
 
10:42 PM
Though I agree that at least a majority of questions asked should, in a perfect world, be removed from the site.
 
@KarlKnechtel The only real way to judge duplicates as signposts is how well they actually do as being hits for users trying to find solutions to the problem for which they are a duplicate. The only real indication we have for that is "views". The only way that can actually be evaluated is what happens over time. Yes, we can guess based on what we think of the content, particularly the title, but our guesses are inherently biased and are not looking at the problem from the same concept space as the less experienced programmers who are the majority of users attempting to find answers.
 
Breaking News: The world isn't (quite) perfect!
 
(IIRC something like a third currently are, though I'm too lazy to look up the stats)
 
it wouldn't be good, for that reason. But there is so much wrong with existing questions (I constantly struggle to find decent canonicals for really straightforward issues, even with an external search engine)
@Makyen many supposed signposts get a lot of views because they are bait for a completely unrelated question, though.
 
Spend some time/effort in the First Questions queue - it's something I do in spells, until I start to feel the depression setting in. For example, today I used around 40 close votes in that queue alone. And I skipped many others that were probably worthy of a close vote.
 
10:44 PM
@KarlKnechtel yeah, and I think that would be a perfectly good deletion reason (e.g., "coming up as search results for 'different problem query here'")
 
there's also popular stuff where I just can't fathom how it's being reached
 
Ideally you'd edit first if there's something to be salvaged, but there isn't always.
 
@RyanM Unfortunately, I don't bin most of them. I don't do much of anything, because I don't have the time. I'll look in during a conference call or something, but get distracted and not be able to take any action. So that's not really a great heuristic. I'd have to start keeping notes of specific examples, and I'm not really sure how useful that is, because I don't like focusing on specific examples, as that tends to lead to specific nitpicking, obscuring the larger issue.
@Makyen There are, indeed, but when the people who are supposed to be helping the process aren't interested in actually helping it, my gut reaction is to bypass most of those intervening steps.
 
@RyanM Currently, there are 10,139,745 deleted questions and 23,062,023 questions which are not deleted. So, 30.54% of questions are deleted.
 
Wow!
 
10:48 PM
@KarlKnechtel Ironically, this still isn't quite clear to me. If you're saying that 90% of the unsuitable questions should be closed, then, yeah, I think I have to agree with that. If you're saying that 90% of the questions on SO should be closed, and that new questions should be blocked ("indefinitely closed to new questions"), then I don't have much to say other than "wow" and "that's ridiculous".
We're a Q&A site, not a fossilized piece of amber. On a Q&A site, you are always adding new stuff.
 
I'm saying that 90% of questions on SO are unsuitable, based on my experience of examining new questions that come in. I think that's not only not "ridiculous", but to be expected a priori of any web site that admits user content.
because unlike discussion forums, we have standards.
 
I think a very large percentage of incoming questions are blatantly unsuitable, and I'm regularly shocked at how much needs to be closed just looking at the new questions list, but 90% is still way too high in my estimation.
 
a big fraction of this putative 90% is zero-effort "please debug this". Another big fraction is stuff where OP is perfectly capable of solving the problem, and simply hasn't tried applying logical reasoning.
The 90th percentile score for created:2d..1d is:question is +1.
(more precisely, about 14.1% of questions are able to get an upvote, after a day+ on the site)
 
But more to the point, I think it's really dangerous to use "90% of everything is crap" or "a way-too-high percentage of incoming questions are blatantly unsuitable" as justifications for disregarding or otherwise playing fast-and-loose with the standards that we do have, including standards for Q&A that are fine.
 
I think the standards are wrong, in some regards. They admit questions that don't make sense to include, per the mission statement in the tour.
 
10:55 PM
@KarlKnechtel Ah, yeah. Per site rules, those questions are perfectly fine, your own feelings about them notwithstanding. You may know that I dislike Python, but it's not reasonable for me to close all Python questions because Python sucks.
The mission statement in the tour is "to build a library of detailed, high-quality answers to every question about programming."
I don't know where you read in there the implication that debugging effort is required, or that questions where the user was actually capable of solving the problem themselves are unsuitable.
 
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