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1 hour later…
01:29
A novel "me too please" strategy: https://stackoverflow.com/a/74147751/11107541
gave me a laugh in the review queues
@RyanM quick question for advice: what is the amount of days you take till posting the next burn?
I'm thinking of commenting on [this self-answer](https://stackoverflow.com/a/73999614/11107541):
While I'm glad you found a solution, these kinds of self-answers that go like "I solved my problem by taking a completely different approach to the one my original question was about"- I don't think they are considered good here.

Is that correct? If so, is this comment okay or can it be improved?
01:46
@david-fong No, I don't think that this is correct. One issue is, is the question solvable given the information presented? If not, then first and foremost, the question should be closed, and perhaps downvoted. The answer is mostly a link to github and so it too could merit a downvote, if you desire.
@DialFrost as I said, idk. I don't post many.
@HovercraftFullOfEels makes sense. Thanks for the advice. I personally haven't gotten over the mental hurdle of spending rep on downvoting answers.
02:12
Think of it as a temporary investment in site quality. You often get it back when roomba comes along or it hits LQA.
 
3 hours later…
05:22
@RyanM unfortunately most burn requests arent really read
05:41
@RyanM I also say it should be deleted, the question conflates multiple aspects/mistakes into one post: passing the quoted variable, incorrectly appending to a string, spaces in the file mode... I'd also cast a delete vote on it, I think the best course of action here would be to have the question deleted by 3 non-mod users, so it can be undeleted by community if the others don't agree
06:12
Can I retroactively nominate a screenshot of the day? Or does an old one I saw now count for today? In either case this is the screenshot
07:46
@DialFrost I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean completed: yes, they take a while and there is a loooong backlog
but generally they get discussion and/or votes
08:37
I made a MSO post describing why I voted to close a highly-viewed, highly-upvoted question. meta.stackoverflow.com/q/420989/11107541. You can go add your downvote if you disagree with my reasoning :)
09:08
@david-fong Careful, here. Your post here may be construed as slyly asking for a close vote on that question, which you have already raised in a Meta post. The room has strict (ish) rules about not moderating posts that are being discussed on Meta.
@RyanM I think I posted the burn for discount too early :P
1
Q: No [discount] for you!

DialFrostThe discount tag has nearly 500 questions and obviously judging by the name, it is not related to programming. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? Sort of. This tag is very ambiguous and doesn't point to the same thing all the time. Is ...

 
1 hour later…
10:53
^ That looks like either gibberish - or possible Hindi for something like, "If we had known what Beta Pump is, we would have been the owners of the company today." Either way, R/A, IMHO.
... the reply to my comment seems to confirm that it's rude: hey son i didn't study that's why i don't know english
... I think?
I pinged someone who can speak Hindi in SOBotics, for confirmation/denial.
Disambiguation or burn?
it has 2 synonyms
@DialFrost I wouldn't have said top-n was a valid synonym for greatest-n-per-group
top-n to me doesn't necessarily imply grouping
11:08
@AdrianMole I accidentally opened your user profile - that's one heck of a consecutive streak :p
Accidentally? C'mon - you were curious and are now impressed. :-)
well, yeah, maybe I was looking to see the comments you were relating to :p
So you ended up seeing a metric that was to be gone, but now isn't to be gone.
mods still see the actual "last visited" and "consecutive" stuff
Why should mods be interested in "vanity metrics"?
:)
11:15
@AdrianMole I'll tell you when you're old enough... 13¾ isn't quite yet old enough to handle the truth? :p
from a practical point of view - no reason to hide it - a mod can just go into the user history and see it anyway
but yeah... that's a damn impressive consecutive :p
Adrian is soon going to catch up with me
Means I haven't had a real life for over 3 years. :(
... and I had to turn down that offer of a job with NASA because of no WiFi in space.
11:40
@Nick so er what's your point, sry I don't really get it
11:53
Is this spam because of the signature, NAA for being link-only or actually OK?
12:13
@Juraj Better: not programming related. The post is a request for hardware recommendations
'fternoon
 
1 hour later…
13:51
What's TV?
Also, that question has no recent activity so it's unsuitable for this room
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, invalid request
14:16
@DialFrost why oh why is that a tag
@mickmackusa Do you mean questions that were closed historically for reasons that are not selectable now? I don't think we do that as a rule, but the argument is much stronger for certain old close reasons. In this case, the currently applied close reason on that question is basically an old version of the "Needs details" reason, so unless you think it is actually clear and not close-worthy today, I would say we should not re-open it.
Cases where we would reopen a question is if you see something closed as 'lacks minimal understanding' or maybe as 'not a real question'
but even for those, the question should not be close-worthy today; if it is still close-worthy, then there's no point in reopening it; it should remain closed or be deleted
@Dharman do we allow requests for burnination questions here that would otherwise be ineligible? I thought we did but maybe not
@Dharman Yes they are duplicates
@TylerH Not to my knowledge. There's a separate room for burninations
@TylerH Yes, we do permit requests for questions for which an active, official burnination (with MSO post) is in process. However, we generally discourage posting individual cv-pls requests for questions involved in a burnination, unless there's some reason to bring that specific question to the attention of the people in this room. The most common reason I've seen for that is that the question has active close votes which are likely to age away prior to it being acted upon in the normal course of the burnination.
Basically, when there's an ongoing official burnination it's far more efficient to encourage users to visit the close vote review queue and/or search on the tag, rather than bring a bunch of individual questions to the room as cv-pls requests.
OK, the parents are fighting again :-P
@TylerH lol so burn maybe?
It has a lot of questions
it seems abit helpful idk
"Query the row with the greatest/least value per group" - why does it say query :|
@Makyen Even when they would otherwise be ineligible?
@Dharman Yes, or at least that's been the way we've had it in the past. Permitted, but notably discouraged, unless there's a reason that question should have special attention out of every other question which is being burninated.
For the specific request which you moved, I don't see a reason to bring it to our attention. That the requesting user is out of votes really isn't a reason it needs to have action now (i.e. there's nothing urgent that really needs other people to get on it now). Being out of close-votes is a reason that the requesting person might want to set a reminder/revisit to the question sometime after 00:00UTC when they once again have close-votes.
14:45
Good to know. Thanks
15:01
@DialFrost the amount of questions puts it low on the priority list for burns, but probably burning it is the best outcome. Honestly I'm surprised at the, what, 6k questions in that tag?
Maybe it does have some worth... but I'm skeptical
@Dharman Ironically, a typo on my part. I meant to write "TB" as an abbreviation for "too broad".
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Thanks for clarifying. The actual reason is "Needs more focus". We discourage using abbreviations for old close reasons because they may be incomprehensible for many users.
@DialFrost I think you should take it easy with posting too many burnination requests. Every burnination meta posts takes some amount of time and energy from the regulars who follow those issues to comment on and analyze on each item. It's not much worth having requests that someone doesn't minutely break-down to give the readers a perspective by the numbers.
There's also a backlog, and reading some of the older burnination request what's missing is having them formatted with the modern criteria.
@Dharman do you agree with the commented dupe target to replace the seemingly poor close reason at stackoverflow.com/q/12048951/2943403 ?
@DialFrost there's also another thing, it's "maybe kind of easy" posting a request, but following up on it, likely debating pros/cons, and then actually executing the burnination takes time. That's the bottleneck of the burninations, getting them done.
It's been my meta experience that sometimes a regular will post a "wall-of-text" but forgets that other users like to keep up with events, so whenever you post you're forcing the regular readers to take some of their time to keep up with current events in the public forum.
@DialFrost So think about it, if it takes 1 month to get 2 or 3 burninations done, it can become disruptive that someone posts 2 or 3 requests every week, they'd basically outpacing readers and contributors and the treatment of each of those requests would decrease in quality.
15:20
If only we had better tooling to better deal with these disruptive scenarios
@DialFrost now, for example, there are 2 problems with proposing to burninate ... 1st problem, it's a 4k Q tag meaning that would take about 15 days to burninate with the current team working at full throughput, but if you revert to the team that was contributing just 2 months ago (meaning 3 CV reviewers spending the 50CVs/day), it would likely take them over 1 month...
The 2nd problem is even harder, that tag is an SQL subject matter expertise. So it's not just a matter of having the team do the burnination, you're "thinning the field" of contributors because a participant who's not current in SQL won't know how to properly handle most of the Qs.... So it takes a lot of knowledge to know who's participating at a current point in time, what they likely know about the subject, etc... To know if they can pull of the burnination with proper clean-up.
@bad_coder Indeed, it has been a while since I've checked our burnination document in google drive but I think there is still a backlog in the scores and scores of tags, if not hundreds.
@TylerH broad estimate from rodgort front page would make that +/- 1300 pending requests... I just focus on the actions themselves, I leave the strategic overview to someone else.
@DialFrost I'm not reprimanding you, I like your posting. I'm just asking you to factor in these perspectives and consider that posting also takes a toll on the contributors.
late lunch for me o/
@AdrianMole I didn't know that! I'll go review the room's rules. Thanks!
16:42
Indeed, laziness seems to always win in the end
@JeanneDark Blame the universe and its tendency to reach the minimum energy state ;)
But why so quickly?
17:09
So what's the deal with NAA flags that are marked helpful but the "answer" is still there? I thought that flagging NAA put the answer into the LQP queue but it appears not, based on the timeline.
@miken32 A mod may have seen it, decided you had a point but the answer could stay and so marked the flag helpful but took no action.
Hmm that would surprise me as it's very clearly NAA, just a tutorial for the OP on how to ask a question.
18:12
@TylerH @user16217248 binned this as it is not a valid request; you can only post del-pls for qualifying posts. In the case of questions, they need to be closed first.
Also, please not that VLQ is not a valid close or delete reason for a question.
@miken32 I assume you're asking about an answer which has been upvoted such that the score >0. If so, then NAA/VLQ flags are marked helpful after a "delete" review, but the answer isn't deleted. Instead, an automatic moderator flag is raised and the deletion will be reviewed by a moderator. You, or others, could have prevented the extended process by downvoting the answer.
Yes it's accepted and +2. Guess it'll just stick around.
Does anyone know what is for?
@Dharman People who don't like going into the office? :-)
Looks like a bad tag that should be exorcised post haste
If you give trusted user approval/agreement I can do that right now, or if you want to do it, I hereby give my trusted user approval for that effort.
In general, NAA answers are quite reasonable to downvote, but it is, of course, both situational and a personal decision. Personally, I don't choose to downvote if the answer is already significantly negative. As a mod, I find I don't downvote NAAs as often as I used to, given that I can just delete them (see too many and quantity of up/downvotes are still limited). The reputation cost of downvoting such answers is returned when the answer is deleted.
18:39
@miken32 Thanks, a ton of repeat answers on and comment flag opportunities on that dupe target
@Makyen Oh yes I definitely downvoted but it's from 2010 when (apparently) a "you didn't ask your question right" scold could get 3 upvotes and an accept!
@Makyen If more users could just delete bad content I think we'd see far fewer downvotes in general :-)
6
@TylerH I'd like at least one more opinion before we start removing the tag
any opinion?
18:52
yes, any
@Dharman I second TylerH. Even having looked through all of the questions I can't seem to figure out what it's even supposed to be indicating. The majority of the oldest questions seem to be about remote access, but working-remotely is a terribly named tag if that's what it's supposed to indicate.
@Dharman Sure thing, although technically the abbreviated burnination process only requires one other 20k+ user assent to it. I suppose if you aren't sure then it makes sense :-)
but it has to be about that tag, you can't just say "onions shouldn't be used in a stew"
sounds like someone likes flavorless stew if they don't like onions in it
@TylerH Ok, if you want to clean it up, go ahead
18:56
@HenryEcker Yeah, it seems clearly about "how do you do this thing, but assuming there's a different process for when you are doing it from a remote session" where "remote session" is not well-defined (e.g. RDP, SSH, VPN, etc) cc @Dharman
and we tend to have better tags for those things anyway, where they are actually relevant
we have all kind of tags with "remote" in them, like remote-desktop, remote-debugging
probably too many tags... e.g #2
remote-access, remote-connection, yeah
when we get some free time in the year 2088, we can take a look at them...
19:12
@mickmackusa How about closing this and 4 other similar questions as duplicates of stackoverflow.com/questions/4260086/…
Phew, this one was a bit of a doozy stackoverflow.com/questions/69389461/… Not sure if it is the best format or using the best tags now, but it's probably a lot better. Might still be off-topic/in need of focus/details.
19:49
Is this room appropriate for requesting answers to be deleted or no?
yes
@user16217248 Why not flag it for moderators to delete?
Users in this room are not likely to waste delete votes on something that should be flagged as NAA
@Dharman I already flagged it as NAA a while (almost 2 days) ago and no action was taken
that's because there are hundreds of flags before yours
you just need to be patient.
This room is for expediting closing/deletion. That answer could have just waited until someone handled the flag in the queue
But if you find something that is not flaggable, should be deleted, and can be deleted then feel free to request it in this room
19:59
Understood, thanks for explaining
Usually my moderator flags have been processed within about 12 hours; at this time is there an unusually high moderator flag volume?
yes, unfortunately
Also on meta there is a post about how Roomba is not working at this time, would it be appropriate to post questions here that would have been deleted by the Roomba? Or would a better option be to wait until Roomba is fixed?
I think the same applies as what I said above. If it can wait then don't involve this room. We hope that they will bring roomba online soon. But if you have a question that really really should be deleted as soon as possible, you can post a [del-pls] request here.
Yeah, there are surely too many to handle individually
@user16217248 Wait, it's broken again?
Or is this the same report from a week or two ago?
20:10
it's still the same
@Dharman I was asking because there is a particularly VLQ question beyond the hundreds of closed questions that have not been edited by their author
yeah, it could have waited :)
but I like pressing the delete button
RE: the remote-working tag cleanup, this question is interesting but I'm not sure I got the tags right. I added since that's the remote access method but I'm not sure if some of the others are needed or if the question needs more details. I have a Pi but I have never used it, and have not had to do any programming over a 3g/cellular connection before
@Dharman Hmm, I thought I saw someone mention the Roomba ran the other day and cleaned up lots of questions all at once. Maybe it was a fluke or a manual run by a dev
or people here were joking and referencing it when talking about something else altogether, which is probably more likely
just delete it, if it was valuable someone'll recreate it
20:23
please don't
Don't worry, I don't have the ability to delete-vote a question that is closed, let alone delete it unilaterally.
@KevinB I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or not, but it's not a great argument. This could apply to literally any question on the site, regardless of how useful. Heck, it could apply to the site itself.
( ﹁ ﹁ ) ~→
@miken32 Another case where this happens is if a mod sees it, sees that you were previously correct, but the post has since been edited, so they mark the flag helpful without doing anything.
@Dharman OK, no more questions in the tag. It should get deleted at midnight UTC.
21:01
@DialFrost that I don't think top-n should be a synonym of greatest-n-per-group
Speaking of synonyms I'm going to prod everyone to visit the synonyms approval page and vote, in the hope that I can get the synonymizer badge more than 5 years after I proposed a synonym.
21:40
@miken32 brb, downvoting all synonym proposals
wow, keyframe still hasn't been synonymized to css-animations?
no CSS moderator anymore'll do that I suppose :-(
22:06
Aam, so something weird seems to be going on,

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/420707/roomba-hasnt-run-for-the-past-two-weeks-and-over-2800-questions-evaded-it

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/74159351/how-to-decode-this-file-php?noredirect=1#comment130933911_74159351

Due to Roomba not being ran for a while, a huge number of questions have passed through it. I am not sure when it will be ran but I think we should start doing some cleanup by close-voting these questions.
I've seen like 3 of these already, 1 in PHP, 1 in JavaScript, and one in some other tag in the past hour.
22:50
@Dharman I am largely in support of all attempts to consolidate redundant content on Stack Overflow. It is the best way to help researchers to navigate this redundant resource.
23:27
@bad_coder I've only posted 2! :3
@bad_coder hmm mkay
@Stranger I'm not totally sure of the relevance of roomba not running to a question posted today; could you clarify?
@Stranger I am not sure what exactly you are asking, but I deleted that Q as I really don't think it was asked in good faith.
If I am wrong, that question was still unsuitable for Stack Overflow and pretty much irredeemable
23:50
@DialFrost yes, :) but at the rate you're going it could be 10 or 20 by next week :P

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