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2:00 PM
I was apprehensive when I first got it, but after a short while, I was swiftly smacking everything.
 
Dupehammers are all fun and games until someone loses a post posts a Meta
@Ruli Tempted to historical lock it. But 32k views in 11+ years isn't great
 
And that's why I don't like moderators involved. Just leave it to the users if it's too meh
 
Guys you made me laugh
 
@Braiam I can tell now because of your sentence "despite what it may looks like" because that to me is incorrect English...
@Machavity "If you're not sure, asking is a good way to find out intent. A truly rude person will come through the more they talk" - this sentence alone, I am unsure about its meaning. But anyway! I'll try to not be that emotional next time.
 
@MrUpsidown The beauty of English is that is always incorrect :)
 
2:12 PM
@MrUpsidown Put a different way, if someone is really being rude, the more you converse with them, the more rude things they tend to say
 
Got it, thanks
The fun part is that after all that, I still don't know if my request for deletion was in compliance with SOCVR rules, and, in the end, whether it should be deleted or not ;)
Anyway... I voted... I submitted it here... all yours now
 
Is my opinion, that everyone that cares is going to have a opinion on whenever to delete it or not. I don't find anything on the rules about deletion that can be done by 10kers.
 
I think the only rule for deletion requets is the generic "no personal involvement" one. Disallowing older posts for del-pls requests, for example, would be counter-productive.
 
I would have voted to delete, just because that's not the kind of question that SO should have.
 
@Braiam Correct, the rules for what should be deleted are very vague and people can delete what they like, but we do have rules for what posts can be brought to the room for deletion, and nearly 3 years is far too inactive regardless of the reasons chosen for deletion
 
2:19 PM
What does the age have to do with the deletion?
 
@Nick [citation needed]
 
I think Dharman and I agree. Not sure, though.
 
@Braiam Rule 11: "recent activity" is considered to be activity within the last 6 months
 
If you are going to quote the "recent activity", make sure that it also says deletion, because if I remember right, is for closing...
 
That is only for cv-pls
 
2:20 PM
@Nick I see no time frame for deletion requests in the SOCVR rules; the 6 months one apparently applies to close requests only - or did I miss something?
 
Nick misread the indentation.
 
@Nick that is for CV-pls
 
@Braiam Fine...
> Unless there's a good reason, it doesn't have to be now
 
You can request a deletion as long as you provide an explanation why you think the post should be deleted and you don't have any non-deleted answer and you are not the author of the question.
 
@Nick That's for recent closing :/
 
2:21 PM
@Braiam No, that's for del-pls's
 
@Nick wait to post the del-pls until the post is actually eligible for deletion-votes
That post is eligible since years ago.
 
@MrUpsidown you could have posted it but If there's something really bad and it has to go, then get it gone - otherwise, don't sweat the small stuff, it'll end up gone eventually - and if no one's seeing it - who cares?"
 
fine: "del-pls is for posts that: are really bad" - It's bad, it's not really bad
 
But I think that post already had 4 delete votes before it was mentioned in here. That's kinda, sorta, vaguely saying that Community feels it oughta go. Is not?
 
@AdrianMole 3 of the delv's were from today, doubtful all are from before it got in the room
 
2:25 PM
... at least, I would argue that multiple DVs on an old, upvoted question is reason enough to at least raise a discussion in here, if not for a formal del-pls (which may come later, as per the @MrUpsidown remark).
 
@AdrianMole I think the same. There are many many many rules that it seems we should be aware of. I personally don't see many good reasons why we should keep that particular question given the fact that it's already closed and has already many delete votes.
 
I would like to note, that 10kers have a delete queue of sorts. A single delete vote puts the posts to the top of the list.
 
I think how you approached it was fair. You initiated a discussion rather than making a formal del-pls. I don't see any rule-breaking, there.
 
@AdrianMole No, I don't see any actual rule breaking, but then I wouldn't have been interested in a formal request on a post 3 years out of action
 
2:27 PM
@Nick But a del-pls is only a request. You are free to ignore it.
 
@Nick I believe it had 4 delete votes already when I raised the question here (including mine which I placed just before asking here)...
 
@AdrianMole aware
 
It's the "delete this or I'll eat your chinchilla" 'requests' that are forbidden.
 
@Nick You can't vote to delete anyway
 
@Dharman aware of that too
 
2:29 PM
@AdrianMole No, my chinchilla no! T_T
 
@MrUpsidown Yeah, unfortunately the timeline isn't granular enough to see actual delv times
@AdrianMole You can eat my chincilla, but only if you make chin_chilli_ out of it
 
@Nick Just don't spill the chili-con-chinchilla on your chin.
 
^in China
 
Hmm. Chinese chili-con-chinchilla on the chin sounds chilling.
 
I like sound.
 
2:37 PM
Chill out, folks.
@Nick BTW, stars work inside words to italicise them, but underscores don't.
 
thanks :p
 
@AmitJoshi this is not actually a recommendation request - see When is a resource request on-topic?
 
@desertnaut I agree with this--it's clearly something that has one specific/objective answer: "here's the process for getting your API key/URL in this service"
@TylerH @AmitJoshi binned per the immediate conversation above
 
@AdrianMole One have to love chat formatting minutiae
 
Funny use of the word, "love" ... but I know what you mean! ;)
 
Can mods desynonymize tags?
 
Yes. But we can't unmerge if they've been merged
 
@Machavity No they weren't merged, someone burninated a tag on a whim, but then it reappeared and was made a synonym of wrong tag
 
Which?
 
@Machavity . Burninated here. All shells have a mechanism for trapping signals, not only Bash
 
3:22 PM
@oguzismail That one was created by another mod, so I'll ping them and have them take a look
 
@Machavity Thanks
 
@oguzismail I see it's used for a lot of AWS stuff as well
 
3:51 PM
Does multiple posting by a new user (of NAAs) warrant any special flags? Or just the usual NAA/Downvote/Delete response? As here.
 
We don't have great tooling for consistent LQ answers, just questions (which tend to be more problematic). NAAs, however, get deleted by the dozens (literally)
 
They'll both get deleted fairly promptly, I'm sure. And I gave a 'helpful comment' on one post, so is that enough, for now?
 
Yeah
 
Good. Didn't want to risk a declined flag, heh? xD
 
4:17 PM
@SurajRao oh yeah
 
@TylerH Yes, it may have many other meanings as well, it shouldn't be a synonym for anything
 
5:10 PM
 
5:36 PM
Should this be moved to Meta, or just be removed? Sorry - old question but a brand-new non-answer.
 
@AdrianMole Can't be migrated (60 days) but it's not great for Meta and the user hasn't been back in 2 years. Deleted
 
Actions, words, than, louder. NP
I really don't think it would have fared well on Meta, even if it were a viable move.
 
I can see -40 on that
-60 if meta were active as normal
 
That is a good meta post ...
 
Well, if we interpret Meta-scores as unsigned integers ... the whole world starts to look nice.
7
 
user10957435
@AdrianMole Especially since I can think of at least a couple of metas with hundreds of down-votes.
 
6:56 PM
hi! I'm new to this place, did a bit of very basic reviews (I don't have that much reputation so I'm new to all of this) and then had a flag age away which confused me, and that led me here :D (I understand why that happens now)
 
@E.T. Hello and welcome. Be sure to read our FAQ and take our Tour at socvr.org
 
hi @TylerH <3
 
oh I guess that means that is not how it works then, my bad :D I might have misinterpreted a suggestion on meta
 
@TylerH @E.T. one of our rules is we don't allow close requests on questions outside of 6 months except for specific reasons. While yours was asking more of a 'how to' than explicitly requesting it, I binned it anyway to avoid confusion.
That and more is explained in our FAQ, as I mentioned above :-)
 
7:02 PM
interesting, so how do you ever clean up the older things then? not that you need to, just curious
from the aged away meta post it sounded a bit like it happens more with flags on older low quality stuff that it doesn't really get prioritized in the queue, so should I just not flag it at all if it's older even if it's super obvious? just wondering how this usually works
(this is the first old one I have flagged so I have no prior experience)
 
I have kind of OT question here but do not want to post on meta, came across multiple questions w/o answer. If question gets deleted and there is pending edit, should I reject it as the question is removed or do not care and review it regularly?
 
user10957435
@E.T. Welcome :D
 
@E.T. Yeah, the mod queue is kinda large right now. Sorry about that. We do try to handle them all, but SO gets 1-2k flags per day
 
do mods ever get a free day?
and of course, welcome @E.T. :)
 
@Ruli We're all volunteers so it's not like they can make us clear it. But mod flags are the ones that tend to pile up and we slacked up some over the holidays
 
user10957435
7:16 PM
@E.T. Well, generally keeping the new stuff clean keeps us busy enough. Everyone except moderators have a daily limit on what they can do, so we try to focus on the stuff causing the most harm. And that generally is the most recent posts.
 
@E.T. I believe you are asking about close-flags (which age away, but are not seen by actual moderators), not custom mod-flags (which never age away). Some other types of flags do age away (e.g. spam and R/A), but those get handled fairly quickly and never actually age away on SO, but sometimes do on other SE sites where there's not much traffic.
 
@oguzismail removed
thanks
 
@E.T. Keep flagging the ones you naturally come across for closure. Yes, some of the flags will age away, because there are just not enough people handling the close-vote review queue, but the flags do help, even though it sometimes doesn't feel that way.
 
@Makyen fascinating! I had no idea there is even a difference between the two. I don't think I got any mod-like abilities, just the very very basic review thing
 
@Ruli haven't taken a day off since Jan 16th last year :p
 
7:19 PM
@E.T. Reviewing in the review queues is a mod-like ability. We appreciate you taking the time to do so.
5
 
I still did not get answer for my question about mod-like ability to accept or reject pending edit on deleted post :P
 
@Makyen it's more fun than asking or answering questions for me, to be honest. I think I like that I need to think about technical topics which are outside of what I would usually ask or answer to figure out if a question has good info or not, so it's a sort of off the beaten path experience that keeps me more interested somehow
 
@Ruli I don't think there's any harm in approving an edit on a deleted post. It's a bit more important if it's a question that's merely closed (the edit could throw to the reopen queue)
A deleted post is unlikely to be undeleted unless it was self-deleted, however
 
@E.T. I should probably say the following, just to be clear: use close-flags for questions you feel should be closed. Don't use custom mod-flags for that, as custom mod-flags ("in need of moderator intervention") which as for a question to be closed will typically be declined, as it's something that the community can handle. A very rare custom mod flag for closure may be acted upon and marked "helpful", if there's a good explanation why the community can't handle the issue.
 
user10957435
@Ruli It's a good question IMO, but one I'm unequipped to answer. If all else fails, it would make a good meta post--even though you've expressed not wanting to do that.
 
7:24 PM
@Makyen I really don't think I ever used a custom mod flag so far, if in doubt I tend to just skip. (Like if it's completely outside of my area of expertise and I can't figure out if the question makes sense to someone else even after a minute of reading.) I'd say I'm probably a quite defensive flagger
 
It was self deleted, but the edit was only formatting, I rejected it as I thought it was audit (still new to edit reviews) but then I found out it was not
 
@E.T. Yeah, I know what you mean. It can be an interesting introduction into a wider spectrum of questions than you might run across just looking at things you know. That can be fun.
 
We have a decline reason that points you to this page, which basically tells you the same thing Makyen said. And in most cases, it's far faster than mod flagging
 
@E.T. Well, don't be afraid to flag if you think something wrong is going on. Just explain what you're seeing and what you think the issue is. Mod flags are usually marked helpful if there's good reason for the user to think that something inappropriate might be happening, based on the information they can see, which, obviously, isn't everything a moderator can see, but we don't expect you to be able to know information you don't have access to.
6
Even if your flag ends up being declined, having some flags declined really isn't a big deal. As long as you're raising flags in good faith, having a flag declined is just a way for moderators to provide you with some feedback. I've seen other moderators say, and I agree, that if you have absolutely no flags declined, then you're probably being at least a bit too conservative about when you flag.
 
Thanks @BhargavRao I'm glad that it's resolved easily
 
8:46 PM
@TylerH @MrUpsidown That has clear historical value at 32k views and a score in the triple digits.
 
@TylerH You have the hammer, don't you?
 
@TylerH You missed the whole discussion over that it seems :p
 
@Nick Indeed
@Dharman I'm out of votes
 
you can set a reminder to come back in 4h :D
 
It'll be next week as I usually do not spend much time on SO on the weekends :-)
but I do have the Q bookmarked already
 
@TylerH I don't understand. While I disagree that the question should be deleted, I don't see that a del-pls would be against the rules. If a del-pls were to be posted, I understand binning it because multiple members have objected. But you just binned a message seeking feedback. What was wrong with that message? It didn't strike me as being an implicit request for members to delete it, and in fact there was quite a lot of discussion surrounding the merits of deleting it.
 
@cigien It was a del-pls with the tags buried in the middle of the request -- feedback from ROs can always come in the form of binning the message and explaining why, not just responses from normal users. I binned it because in general we don't allow requests on stuff that shouldn't be acted upon, whether that's because it's outside our explicit rules or whether it's because there are broader site rules about what has value and should be kept or locked vs deleted.
That determination of what we allow doesn't always exist prior to discussion.
 
9:38 PM
@TylerH I see. It didn't look like a request to me actually (implicit or otherwise). Is that assessment based on the in the middle of the message? If so, would it be fine if it was formatted as del-pls instead?
Also, it seems like you think I was questioning whether you were following protocols with regard to ROs sending messages to /dev/null. I didn't mean that at all. The way you went about it looks fine, I'm just not clear if that counted as a request. Y'all don't bin all messages with links in them that the room decides would not be a good idea to act upon.
 
@cigien Probably, yes, though the ensuing discussion seemed fairly clear to me that at least one if not multiple people were adamant about acting on it. Part of the reason for binning it is to limit the number of people who might otherwise see it in the transcript (e.g. through searching or just scrolling up) and acting on it without seeing any of the context.
 
A request is any link to a post in this room
 
We frequently link to posts for advice, not as requests. For example, there are lots of "is this NAA?" questions that would not be permitted as requests.
 
@Dharman Well, not quite
There are plenty of times where you can ask about a post, edit suggestion, etc. without actually requesting action on it
 
@TylerH Ok, that makes sense. It's certainly the case that requests get acted upon by members without them necessarily reading the surrounding context (which is reasonable of course). I'll keep it in mind not to add formatting to other messages to avoid situations like that. Thanks for the clarification.
 
9:44 PM
A low quality posts review task for this community wiki answer completed as "Recommend Deletion x4" but is not deleted. Is this the intended behavior? Should I post a Meta question?
 
@TylerH Unrelated to the above discussion: We're not supposed to be putting suggested target links in requests.
 
@IanCampbell Yes, it works as designed. Recommend deletion are not delete votes. The system however, deletes any answer that has score <=0 that ended in Recommend deletion. For positively scoring answers, a dispute flag is raised and mods have to review it.
 
@cigien Yeah, the *-pls tagging in the message is what we ask is included in all official requests, so that's what sends the clearest signal to me
 
@Dharman Right, I got thrown off by the community wiki aspect. Thanks.
 
@cigien It's true we prefer people not do that; if you're referring to me duplicate request a while back, at the time there was no duplicate target yet posted on the question, so in those cases it's kind of necessary.
 
9:46 PM
@TylerH Absolutely. For some reason, I was imagining that it only applied to adding that at the beginning of the message, though I can't think where I read that :p
@TylerH Hmm, why not add a comment under the question yourself with a link to the suggested target? That's what we've been suggesting that members do.
In fact, it seems you did put a comment with a link under the question.
 
@cigien I did, I just didn't think to do it until after I posted the message. By then it was too late to edit the message.
However I did also include the duplicate of <link> as a parenthetical to reduce confusion for readers
 
@TylerH I see. Actually, adding a link to the duplicate increases the confusion for readers. (At least that's what I've been told; it makes no particular difference to me :p). I need to be AKB for about 10 min, but I'll share a link to the message in the transcript that covers this in some detail when I get back.
 
10:03 PM
I have been closing duplicates for the past 2 days and I just found the correct canonical. Why was it so difficult it find it?
Should I edit the question to put the error message as a title? stackoverflow.com/questions/21223278/…
 
@Dharman Yes, the current title is very unrepresentative of the problem (sorry for triple ping)
 
@mickmackusa You can go ahead and take that one off of your list to request. I've already deleted it. Note that I would be reluctant to delete an old question like that if it were focused on a single language. But a language-agnostic question? Meh, that has no value to anyone.
 
@RyanM Did you just edit it to make the third ping and say sorry?
 
@Ruli No, definitely not. To me, that appears to have high quality answers and would therefore be of value to people in the future. We don't delete things that have lasting value.
 
10:11 PM
How is it now? Is it better?
 
@Dharman I swear that I did not, though I wondered if it would look that way :-)
 
Are we all pinging @Dharman now? What'd I step into? :-)
 
@Dharman Looks much better!
 
@cigien the confusion comes mostly into play when you look at the URRS user script and the CV Request Generator script (when people leave the custom reason blank, something that won't be possible in a future version) -- that resulted in an unusual situation where the script would think the duplicate target was what it should be checking the closed/deleted/etc/ status for, rather than the duplicate itself
Of course, sloppy request formatting for manual requests could also lead someone to think "wait, which one is the duplicate, and which one is the target?" but it shouldn't be very difficult to make it clear when posting requests to the room manually
 
The third edit changed "that title" to "the current title" to disambiguate from your proposed title, which would be (and is) a marked improvement.
 
10:19 PM
@TylerH I don't really know the details of why that's recommended (here's the message I was thinking of by the way).
Anyway, I feel that it's better to avoid doing that, even if the particular formatting you used avoids all the issues. It's possible that requests like that, especially coming from an RO, might indicate to members that it's an acceptable thing to do, without realizing that there are a number of caveats that need to be taken into account. Just a thought: I'll defer to your judgement about this, of course.
Also, I meant AFK (away from keyboard), not AKB. I keep messing up that acronym for some reason :p
 
Personally, I find it unclear to have the duplicate target link in the request message here, regardless of how you format it. And I don't use any userscripts related to this, so this is just my assessment based on reading the messages and trying to piece together what is being requested. I'd strongly prefer that they be omitted entirely.
I do not see any case where there would be a need to include it. If someone hasn't already flagged or voted to close as a duplicate (which should leave an auto-comment), then you should post a manual comment containing the link underneath the question before requesting closure in here.
 
10:43 PM
@CodyGray that was my opinion, just wanted to know if is correct @MrUpsidown here you have an opinion from other mod, just if you are still interested :)
 
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