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12:20 AM
 
Should I flag these two as NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/61646447/1839439
 
@Dharman Not sure. Depends on your fear of declined.
@Dharman I'm not sure what the policy on amount of answers per Question is. But it seems to me to be slightly strange that they're both upvoted.
 
@Scratte I thought that one upvote means OP was generous. There's no policy on the number of answers you can post.
 
1:15 AM
@Scratte There is no limit to the number of answers to any question. It's also not unusual to have several answers to a single question upvoted. The only limit to that is that only a single answer can be accepted.
I should say that if I answer a question, and can see more than one approach to solving it, I do so in the same answer even if I have to edit it in afterward. There's no rule against providing multiple answers to the same question though, each with a different solution
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 AM
good grief how many app store policy questions can there be
I've seen like five in the queue today
plus I think another one outside it
 
3:21 AM
@RyanM n + 1
 
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
6:53 AM
I'm on one Coffee, don't expect much from me yet
 
So.. in 30 minutes everyone can expect lots from you?
Smokey: You're repeating yourself. Go with "one Coffee" only ;)
 
@Scratte we occasionally get two instances running in parallel, this time apparently because metasmoke went down briefly. The solution is for someone with adequate privileges to tell one of the instances !!/standby, usually over in Charcoal HQ
 
7:35 AM
I rejected an edit today where someone had swapped out an image URL while inlining it. I had assumed that by replacing the image with their own copy, they could later update it with e.g. spam, undetected. Afterwards, however, this kept nagging at me, which led me to Martin Smith’s guidance.
I’m now convinced my review was a mistake; it seems I.stack.imgur.com images can’t be updated by the user after-the-fact. Can anyone rollback my rejection? I don’t want the well-meaning contributor who proposed the edit to be penalized or feel discouraged because of my unfounded and inappropriate suspicion. (Obviously, I won’t make this mistake again, at least regarding i.stack.imgur.com URLs.)
 
@JeremyCaney I do not think it's possible to undo a review action. I've had one suggested edit rejected myself and was told that the result is binding. I had to redo the edit with another round of edit review.
In this case it's not possible for the editor to redo it, since the inlining of the image has been done.
 
7:54 AM
@Scratte: Well, shoot, I was worried that might be the case. (And, yes, I ended up inlining the image myself, along with some other edits, as part of an "Reject and Edit".) I just regret that my action could discourage the contributor from proposing edits in the future, and especially as this was only their second suggestion.
 
Zoe
@JeremyCaney eh, that happens whenever someone inlines it by reuploading
As in, instead of just prefixing with a !, they delete it and reupload it. That's noticeable by the syntax change
and the image description reset
 
@JeremyCaney To be honest. I doubt they would have redone their edit even if you hadn't edited it yourself. Depending on the user, the experience of a rejection is quite varied.
 
@JeremyCaney it happens. No big-deal. Move on.
 
@Zoe: Yes, but can you go back and tell @JeremyCaney that an hour ago?
 
@JeremyCaney If it really bothers you, you can try to invite them for a chat.
 
Zoe
8:00 AM
Sure. Just make me a tardis :P
Seriously though, don't worry about it. Mistakes happen, and it's all good as long as you learn from it
 
@JeremyCaney it is still an hour ago here: Don't reject that edit ...
 
@rene: Will do. Thank you all! I really appreciate you looking at this.
 
8:19 AM
Does this answer to the above cv-pls count as NAA or Spam? It's an advertorial, but it would stand alone without the link, and it does declare the poster's affiliation, but it's obviously not the sort of answer you'd want to attract on an off-topic question.
 
I'm very unsure that it's either. The Question asks for this specific thing, so even with the link, it's answering the Question as far as I can see.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:39 AM
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 14 secs ago, by tripleee
I'm afraid I can't sort this out; let's live with two Smoke Detector instances for the time being
 
 
2 hours later…
11:21 AM
 
12:05 PM
 
12:40 PM
Man, that's a lot of screenshots
 
OK, who would upvote this and why? OP literally just posted more code that should go into the question as an edit. So, it's most definitely "not an answer". Even as an answer, it's not very good, since it's just code.
 
@Adriaan yep, looks familiar
 
It's not the first time I've seen something that's clearly not a good post upvoted. Rather quickly after being posted. I suspect a voting ring or a voting bot but I have no way of finding out.
I don't think there are THAT many people who misclick on upvote or otherwise upvote content that shouldn't be upvoted.
 
@VLAZ I think it's the same as downvotes really. I've seen downvotes on posts that take a lot longer than 1 minute to read, but still getting downvotes as soon as the post goes in
 
Often you don't need to read a post to know it's bad
 
12:49 PM
@JohnDvorak I've seen it on my posts too :) Maybe other people are seeing bad stuff that I don't then
 
OK, downvotes I get. Sort of. It's easy to DV. Heck, I sometimes I DV after just a glance. I then have 5 minutes to read and amend it if I made the wrong call. Also, some people just DV out of spite I assume. But upvotes within few minutes at most on content that doesn't deserve it smells fishy.
 
@VLAZ Why don't you just read it and then vote?
 
I'm generally cautious to attribute spite to people on Stack Overflow, and I generally try to discourage new users from seeing spite that isn't there. People have mistakenly seen a downvote/edit/closevote and immediately determined that it is motivated by anger/malice etc, but without a mean-minded comment, I think this conjecture is harmful.
In other words, people mostly edit and vote out of care. It's feedback.
 
Because a lot of times I can guess correctly that the answer is bad or not even addressing the question. Sometimes I am wrong, as I misread something but it it seems obvious the post is wrong, I don't really need an in-depth analysis.
If I'm not confident, then I'll first read then vote.
 
@VLAZ It could be spite, but spite rises to the level of caring. I'd say most lazy downvotes are merely cynical
 
1:01 PM
lol!.. line 49 :)
 
1:16 PM
@VLAZ friends/colleagues are a powerful force
 
Wouldn't that class as voting ring?
 
I mean technically but it's so mild and so hard to prove that it's not worth any additional effort
@JeremyCaney indeed users cannot modify posts uploaded to i.stack.imgur; however, in this case rejection by you was fine; OP should have just put an exclamation mark in front of the existing image code rather than reupload the thing to the same exact domain.
 
1:32 PM
@VLAZ No, a voting ring is trying to engage in reputation fraud. So if I upvote, say, Tyler once a day for a month, that's a voting ring. He's not earning that reputation natually
That's why we explicitly disallow asking for reputation voting in any form
 
Ah, OK, I thought it was any unnatural voting. usually prolonged but not necessarily.
 
If I find a good answer of yours and upvote it because it's good, that's not a voting ring
 
In this case the cognitive dissonance of SO voting comes into play: votes are simultaneously for upvoting useful or correct content, and for whatever reason you deem worthy of your vote.
The only reason we allow the latter is because there's no way to enforce the former without mind control/truth serum
So in this case it's probably this scenario: guy 1 "hey I have a problem I can't solve" guy 2 "post it to stack overflow and I'll upvote it"
slightly less common but still frequent is an unrelated group of people: guy 1 posts highly problematic question to SO. guys 2 thru 5 "I'm also having this problem and I only care about it getting attention and solved, so I'll upvote" et voila
 
I'd expect the "ring" to be more than two.. so I upvote someone else's post once a day. That someone is in my group (ring). So everyone in the group largely forms an unnatural closed circle of voting on their own stuff.
 
@Scratte traditionally the metric is "more than 1", e.g. "anything more than what you can achieve on your own with one account"
it can make or less grammatical sense to use the term 'ring' depending on whether you're referring to a group of people or a group of accounts
 
1:40 PM
@TylerH A group of two. I suppose that's a ring :) But I'd think it was much easier to find those two.
 
Slightly related: I'm sometimes worried when I upvote content from the same person just because it's among the top voted content anyway. Say, if I am looking at a lot of questions where JonSkeet posted, then I may naturally upvote his answers. Because they are good. I suspect there is some tolerance for vote fraud when upvoting very popular content but it still makes me feel strange.
 
Funny, but I think this was discussed before some time back here. I believe there is extra tolerance, yes. I think it was @Makyen that explained that one shouldn't keep track of the number of times one has voted on other users content.
 
Aren't closing vote rings unnatural activity?
 
@Scratte If you're voting on content (which is what you should be doing), then there there should be no need to be watching what user wrote what you're voting on.
 
@VLAZ usually a user does not view a ton of posts by the same user within the same day
 
1:52 PM
@Makyen I know.. But I still keep track :) I'd make a userscript for it, if I could.
 
Happens if you're looking through a lot of old questions. Especially following links between them.
Yes, it doesn't happen often, for me but occasionally I do go through older content.
 
@VLAZ if it's innocent then it's probably not anything to worry about
the occasional voting correction of 3 upvotes doesn't shine too big of a red flag on your account or anything, it just gets automatically reversed
 
I know I shouldn't but it's still the "but what if it's BAD" voice at the back of my mind.
 
argh, I want to leave a comment correcting this wrong comment but it's an audit and deleted post
the struggle is real :-(
 
@MattB. close and reopen votes (unlike up and down) are public, ie any user can see these. That makes fraud possible to find out for any regular user, no moderator nor dev access privileges are needed to get to necessary data. This makes it so much harder to abuse close/reopen voting, any effort one would put into it would hardly be worth it
 
@MattB. SOCVR isn't a "ring" either. No member is required to vote on things, and we won't kick you out if you don't vote sufficiently on suggested questions
 
@Machavity also, I think the crucial difference is that the votes from here are (I hope) correct. People aren't voting for non-applicable close reasons.
 
@VLAZ More importantly, if we disagree with a request, we can interact and even remove it
We even reopen questions after they've been improved
 
That, too. Basically my point is that votes coming from this chatroom aren't "unnatural" and should be keeping up with the rules.
 
2:48 PM
bah, thanks Rob :-P you threw off the count
 
@TylerH How did I throw off the count?
 
the command 4tpu tells Smokey "mark the last four messages by you as tpu"
but because you responded just before I hit enter, Smokey replied, making that the most recently message by it
so instead of getting the 4 reports above, it got the reply to you and the 3 latest reports above
no biggie though
 
quick question: what is tpu?
 
@TylerH ok sorry
 
@VLAZ true positive blacklist user
 
2:50 PM
Thanks!
 
@VLAZ True positive (spam or rude), and blacklist the user so future posts are automatically reported.
 
Thank you again :)
 
yw. Note that off-topic and unclear questions are not tp, they are fp. You should vote to close them instead. SmokeDetector is only for things that should be red-flagged (need immediate deletion).
 
(you also need to be on a privileged list for this room for smokey to listen to you here -- as you can see from the messages above, Rob is not privileged in this room, hence Smokey's message to him when he tried to reply to a report with a classification command)
 
2:56 PM
That's right. I accidentally replied in here, while I am privileged in another room.
 
3:16 PM
 
3:59 PM
My first try at that cv-pls got the message "The chat room URL you supplied is invalid". Clicked on cv-pls, get three options "Send request", "SO Close vote reviewers", and "Check for updates". Clicked the middle one. Get a panel with a one entry bullet list for "SO Close vote reviewers", enter a message and click set. Leading to the message "The chat room URL you supplied is invalid". Using Firefox and Tampermonkey.
 
4:17 PM
@AdrianHHH that might need @Makyen to look at.
 
Wish to report to SD, but I don't know how.
 
4:37 PM
folks do you by chance know what's up with LQ queue? It is second day in the row that it gives me double limit of reviews, do we experience some kind of a flood of non-answers? I haven't seen double limit for many many months
 
New CEO blog is up. CEO's Meta.SE post
5
 
@gnat I know nothing about it. :D I can only send max 100 posts a day into that queue and recently I have been doing it more consistently. I haven't seen any influx of NAA, on the contrary, I would say this week is pretty quiet. Usually, MP and BR were clearing that queue few times a day. I haven't had many flags handled by MP recently and other mods started to chip in, which makes me think that MP has taken some time off. That alone would explain why the LQP is overloaded.
 
4:53 PM
 
5:11 PM
@Machavity I know how it works, just wondered why it happened that there are unusually many posts in the queue. As I wrote it's been steady on a smaller limit for months and any time I looked at it in the past, queue size was well under 100. And suddenly it gets over 150 for 2 days in the row, making me wonder if I missed something that happened lately
 
5:27 PM
@gnat Possibly mod wobble. Mods actively work the LQP. If they stop, you need a lot more reviewers to delete
 
From help center: "Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it." ..missing that, would it be "Needs details"?
 
@Scratte Depends on the question. Sometimes Needs details, sometimes needs focus and other times No MCVE.
 
@Dharman It's a no attempt :) But there's no such option in the flags :)
 
@Scratte If you were to answer this question would you be able to provide a clear concise answer?
If not, then pick a reason why. If you don't know what problem OP is having then it is needs focus. If they describe the problem, but incoherently or too vaguely then it is Needs details. If they describe the problem, but it needs code or error message then it should be closed as No MCVE.
 
@Dharman Yup.. it's this one I can write that procedure in a minute.
That's the thing. It's very focused. No details are missing.. there's no error.
 
5:38 PM
@Scratte Then it means you can answer it. Why do you want to close it? From my point of view I do not know what difficulty OP is having. Even if I could write this procedure I do not know what part I need to focus on and explain in detail.
 
Because the help center says that it's not on-topic.
 
5:49 PM
I really need 100 each of votes, cvs, etc. per day...
maybe that's something they should add to the list of things people get at 10k, 15k, or 20k rep...
 
6:20 PM
already answered using a crystal ball :shrug:
 
@TylerH Well, if they removed the cap at 30, you would have 100 delete votes per day when you get to 105,000 reputation. :-)
 
@AdrianMole excellent!
 
that's not a bad thing, is it
 
Not saying, "Aye," not saying "Nae."
At the moment (as far as I know), the extra delete vote per 1,000 rep. is the only thing you can still 'earn' after reaching 25k. A similar sort of thing for close votes would be nice.
... well, I suppose you can still earn specific Gold Hammers.
@Dharman What do you think can be done about this answer that you commented on? Does it warrant a mod-flag for copy-pasting another answer (even though its accredited)?
 
6:51 PM
I just tried to create my own chat room. The UI is telling me not to, but to find another room. Can I use the ministry for a discussion of SQL?
 
@Scratte it's telling you not to or suggesting you see if another room exists?
Anyway, there is a SQL room I'm pretty sure. No idea how active it is
 
@TylerH I know. I asked in there, but there's no response
@TylerH It's also sort of a continuation of a post in meta, so it seems like invading with my own agenda
It's telling me that my new room will be closed if there's another room already existing that could be used.
 
looks like you only asked a couple mins ago. most rooms are not so active that you should expect a response immediately
in the HTML room these days (used to get a few thousand messages a day) we now sometimes respond to folks days later
 
Fair enough. I expect it will not be today then. The other party needs to be online as well. I take it the ministry is not a good idea.
 
Why don't you just ask the question you have in the SQL chat? Most chatrooms don't like it when folks ask a question about asking a question
It wastes time :-)
Depending on the difficulty of the question, even I may be able to help you there
 
@TylerH It's not a Question. It's a discussion of how to represent joins as diagrams. How a particular diagram that was used in an answer could be modified to better represent the various joins.
It's basically a discussion about join representations and their limits.
 
Sounds like the perfect conversation to have in a SQL chatroom :-)
 
What's a discussion?
 
There's plenty of discussion about joins over the years in that room chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=joins&room=11391
 
@TylerH Only none of the other users will see the diagram since it was deleted two days ago
 
7:03 PM
well, none of the other users unless they have 10k rep and you link them, or if you just re-share the image
 
@TylerH So people should join the SQL room? I'm not sure I can commit to that
6
 
@Scratte If you can't abstract the discussion so it can be held in the SQL room then you probably can't abstract it adequately to be held in any other room, either...
 
@TylerH I'm not comfortable with it either way. It's not my image either :)
 
What is uncomfortable about discussing a diagram indicating SQL joins
if it was posted on SO then it's licensed on CC by SA :-)
 
I don't know the ins and outs of the room. What is acceptable, what is not.
 
7:08 PM
It's a chatroom; it's for chatting. If there are rules, they'll be linked in the room description. Otherwise, if you run afoul of expectations, someone will tell you.
 
7:23 PM
Actually... NEATO, not NATO
 
7:36 PM
@AdrianMole I wouldn't do anything. It's already deleted
 
@Dharman Excellent! Mods can be useful, eh?
Did you flag it? I only gave a meagre down-vote, which gave it a nett zero, so don't know how or why Jean would have come across it, otherwise.
Is this username offensive? Or am I being too prudish?
 
offensive
 
Yeah I had a flag waiting there for few hours.
@AdrianMole It's kinda offensive. If it offends you, you can ask a mod to look into it.
 
I just mod-flagged one of their Qs.
 
I had a flag on that answer before they copied it. It was autoflagged as NAA
 
7:43 PM
 
Yeah, before the edit, I would've given NAA. But after, it was an answer, but just not an acceptable one. I guess your original flag got through to the mods' queue.
 
@AdrianMole It was still NAA in my opinion. Nothing changed.
 
NAAA!
 
I don't care if you post a screenshot of another answer. If it was answered somewhere else then it should be flagged as duplicate.
 
Oh, I agree completely. And the reply to your comment wasn't very friendly or helpful, either.
 
7:55 PM
ugh, they changed the favorite star to a tab with a star cutout now so it's even tinier and thus harder to see what it is
also there's no tooltip when logged out
-_-
 
... And the favorites tab has gone from my home page.
 
@AdrianMole it's now called Bookmarks
 
Aah - too obvious for me.
 
They talked about renaming Favourites -> Bookmarks. I don't see any announcement that this is effective now
So, it is a bit surprising.
 
And they're going to add a "Following" tab soon, IIRC.
 
8:01 PM
That would be useful, as well.
 
@VLAZ They announced favorites -> bookmarks here
3
 
Ah, wasn't featured.
I see.
Also 15 minutes ago.
 
I can only assume that by making things smaller and fainter that the people making the design decisions have perfect eyesight.
 
Or very big screens?
 
@DavidBuck you guys don't sit 2 inches from your screens?
sorry, ~5cm?
 
8:11 PM
I personally hold my screens next to my face.
 
8:27 PM
I reviewed this mysql android-studio question about an hour ago, when it was in Spanish. It's not in spanish anymore, but I have no idea if it still needs details. Any thoughts?
 
@Scratte I'd say it has too much details now. It's not minimal.
Also, I don't even know if it's the correct details, either - there is just too much code.
 
@DavidBuck I was wondering if I could point that out, or if it would be considered targeting a user
I'm not sure how much we care about targeting spammers
 
It's OK. You didn't point it out... It's not even trying to look like non-spam though so zero for effort.
 
@VLAZ I noticed that the code is just in a big block. Normally it's spilt into the different elements. The stacktrace is in the bottom.
 
Doesn't make most of the code irrelevant.
 
8:41 PM
I think maybe they just need to use https instead.
 
8:55 PM
I just found a site that has this identical Question. No attribution. No mention of Stack Overflow.
It even has the edit made by Dharman..
 
Ooh, no attribution is bad. Sites are allowed to copy content but they need to link to the original question and to the profiles of users.
 
Attribution is essential - especially if @Dharman is involved.
Link!
 
@AdrianMole I don't even know what to do about it: es.dev4app.com/archives/…
 
It doesn't mention Dharman, I just noticed that the "Cod" was fixed to "Code"
 
9:01 PM
Why is the code copied so many times? On one line each?
 
Can you give a link to the original question?
 
Meh... Nothing out of ordinary. It looks like someone is fetching all answers and autotranslating them.
 
@VLAZ It's about 20 lines up :)
 
Here's my answer I posted minutes ago in Spanish: es.dev4app.com/archives/…
 
9:04 PM
Ah, thanks.
 
@Dharman No.. it's not autotranslated. The rest of the site is Spanish. But this particular Question started out as Spanish.. but how it's picking up the updated English content. But it's still not attributed.
 
So lazy, I searched for the question ID in the source code and it's there but it doesn't link to SO. It just links to that dev4app site and the ID is embedded in those links
They aren't even trying to hide the connection.
 
@Scratte Well, I wrote my answer in English, so it must be auto-translated if minutes later it is available in few languages.
 
That site seems to be blatantly reposting loads of SO posts - all without attribution.
 
It looks like some kind of school project
 
9:08 PM
Sounds like a good thing to alert the company to via 'contact us'
 
The link from VLAZ is saying to use the "Contact us" form. Anyone? Please.. :)
 
they'll check their logs for the hits and blacklist whoever is doing it most likely
@Scratte Scroll to the bottom of the page, click the 'contact us' link in the site footer
 
Feel free to report them.
 
Natty is copying content too. What is the difference?
 
@Dharman well, for one, depends on how they're doing it. Two, if they aren't providing attribution, they're violating the license rights of SO
 
9:10 PM
Is there a penalty for having the knowledge and failing to report it?
 
@Scratte Yes! We know that you know!
 
@Scratte I don't believe there is any legal penalty in the US
 
You did remind me - the other day I found another site that was copying content without appropriate attribution. I didn't have the time to report it then and it kind of slipped my mind afterwards. I'll do it now.
 
I also don't think SO will do anything to you for not reporting it
so it depends on how you will feel about yourself by noticing it and doing nothing, mostly
 
I do not like emailing a company where I'm a "customer"
 
9:11 PM
@Dharman Natty is a small dog.
 
..and I'll have to log into my email at some point to see if they reply. Which I don't do.. except on sundays on odd dates.
 
@Scratte Think of it as raising a mod-flag, only to a higher authority.
 
@Scratte I can report that for you, if you want
I'll be reporting another site anyway
 
@VLAZ Thank you :)
 
No worries. If you're not feeling like reporting this, I don't see a big problem. You've shared with us, so it can be reported anyway
Aha! I had to re-find it. It was a bit involved: coder.work/article/101753
It's a Chinese translation of an answer of mine + the question
I was googling trying to find if there are any links or something because it keeps getting upvotes and I found it strange.
 
9:18 PM
That page even has a copyright character :O
 
Found that website. It has links to SO but they are nofollow which is bad. Also no links to user profiles.
I like how the code and the link are not translated, while everything else is.
 
..and they're just taking the most upvoted answer. Strange.
 
Yeah, that's also odd.
 
Slightly over-zealous auto translater. It's translated electron to electricity, but overall a pretty good job if it's automated.
 
Say, @Scratte - how did you find that page? The report form is asking for search terms, so I'd prefer to fill them in.
 
9:25 PM
@DavidBuck Which language?
 
Chinese
 
@DavidBuck Wait.. you read Chinese?
 
当然
 
You mean Mandarin?
 
Yes.
 
@VLAZ Hold on.. using the error message from the Question here, I got this search result: duckduckgo.com/…;
 
Ba dum tsh
 
Thank you!
 
@VLAZ I just did the easy part. You're emailing the company!.. :)
..but in the process I found a duplicate target for the Question, but I can't flag it since I already have a flag on it.
 
You do that, while I handle the reports :D Also, you have to report each link separately. The form asks for link to copied content and then the original, the search term and explanation, as well.
 
9:42 PM
@VLAZ So.. you have to send two separate reports? I suppose they get locked into each their ticket then.
 
Yes, I just did the second one.
I suppose it makes sense, I was actually wondering whether to not just dump them into two separate ones anyway but the contact form gave me no choice. I think this is better. It's easier to follow up on those one at a time.
 
I'm not sure you'll get an actual reply other than "Thank you for ...."
 
@Scratte IN YOUR FACE! I just got two emails that say "This is an automated message to confirm that we have received your request at our Stack Overflow community support portal.". OK, it also includes "Thank you for your patience, and we'll respond as soon as we can." but I count the start as being different :P
 
... that's now at least 4 posts linking their own blogs.
 
(five) I flagged the others as NAA but just realized I should have flagged them all as spam, as they're unrelated to the questions...
 
9:56 PM
@VLAZ Heh.. sorry :) They do promise to "respond as soon as we can". I have heard that they're understaffed, so.. as rene would say: in 6 to 8
 
@Scratte business months, I'm sure
 
@RyanM Ooh - I got a "disputed" on one of those spam flags, but the post was mod-nuked, anyway. Never had a disputed spam before.
^ I guess that means someone gave it a "Looks OK" in the LQP queue?
 
10:12 PM
And why are folks gunning to not just close it, but delete it, too?
There's no typos there, it's a fundamental misunderstanding
that is well asked and well answered
anyhow, voted to reopen
 
@MattB. I agree (even if it means going against the votes of three 'Big Boys')! I voted to reopen, so it's now at 2:2 between delete and reopen! Sweepstake, anyone?
@M-- Speaking of the Big Boys...
 
@MattB. and @AdrianMole I would take such disputes to Meta unless you can get the clarity in this room from the people who closed. You can ping them if they are online.
 
@Dharman I'll leave that to @MattB. ... but maybe let's wait to see if it goes either way, here.
 
M--
@S.S.Anne I think it should stay closed, but not get deleted. cc: @AdrianMole @MattB.
 
So, still the Mexican stand-off.
 
10:22 PM
Why closed tho?
It's not a typo, can still be reproduced
How should that question be edited to fix those problems?
 
I don't see any problems with that question, but then again I do not see my name as one of the voters. I am not sure what was the reason to close this question.
 
And three very good answers, to be sure.
 
@AdrianMole Spam flags can only be handled by mods.
 
@AdrianMole There is no non-moderator review queue for spam flags. As far as I know, a moderator has to take specific action to dispute a spam flag.
ninja'd :)
 
@Dharman If you mean the 'disputed' flag I mentioned earlier, then it would appear that there was an NAA flag first, which sent it into the LQP queue.
 
M--
10:30 PM
I still see that question to be a typo but there are nice answers there, so I won't cast a del-vote. If the rules allowed it, I would've said "ping me if that was deleted; I am willing to cast an undel-vote".
 
@M-- Why do you think it should stay closed?
 
... the mod deleted it with the comment "via Vote".
 
@AdrianMole Did you cast NAA or spam flag?
 
On that one, I cast spam. But, from the comment, I think there was an NAA before me.
 
@AdrianMole Then NAA should be marked as helpful and your spam flag would need to be handled manually by a mod.
 
10:32 PM
There was a whole batch from the same user; I gave NAA for the first I encountered, then spams.
 
@AdrianMole comment? That sounds like a normal moderator-delete.
 
@MattB. reopen-pls
 
M--
@Dharman "I still see that question to be a typo"
 
@MattB. Please edit for tags. [tag:tag-text]
 
@Makyen look at the timeline
 
10:33 PM
thanks!
 
@M-- I don't think it's a true typo. Even if it was a typo, why should it stay closed? Why is this typo question not helpful in your opinion? We do not close all typo questions.
 
M--
@Makyen Is it ok to have a del-pls and reopen-pls on the same question?
 
@AdrianMole That looks like a normal moderator delete-vote.
 
@MattB. There's a list in the faq. A link to it at the top right corner :)
 
@M-- Not from the same person, as they are opposite requests.
 
10:35 PM
@Makyen Yeah, but it was in the LQP queue. Presumably, before I added my spam flag, and then somebody thought it was OK? But it's no big deal - "disputed" != "declined".
 
@AdrianMole disputed flags are like collectors items :)
 
@AdrianMole I assume that the mod who deleted the answer was the one who marked your flag as disputed. Only mods can handle spam flags. LQP has no impact here.
 
@Dharman OK, then I'll need to get rene to 'sort the mod out'. ;)
 
M--
@Dharman OK. if you think "this one was resolved in a way likely to help future readers." Then go ahead and cast a reopen-vote.
 
@AdrianMole It's possible there's an edge case in there where the post exiting the review queue disputes all non-custom mod-flags, or even all of them, but it's not supposed to happen that way, as far as I know. Only you (or a mod) can determine if your flag being disputed happened at the same time as the post exiting the queue, and wasn't at the same time the moderator delete the post.
 
M--
10:39 PM
@Makyen Alrighty. I was just curious about the rules. So... let's say this one gets deleted. Can someone ask for undel-vote here, or that would fall under: "we do not engage in disputes like this. Post on Meta..."
 
@RyanM It's useless. The ordering of variables is implementation-defined.
@M-- @AdrianMole ^^
 
@M-- There's a point at which we should direct it over to meta. If there really is a disagreement in the room as to what the status of the question should be, which isn't easily resolved through a bit of discussion, then, yes, it should be taken to Meta and all requests moved to /dev/null.
 
@S.S.Anne @S.S.Anne We have competing requests on this question. Could you explain why you'd like to see it deleted?
 
@M-- Link, please? I'm happy to look into what happened to your flag(s) quickly.
 
10:44 PM
@M-- No flags on that question...
 
M--
@AdrianMole glasses looking for you
 
There's a deleted answer, but it was self-deleted and never flagged.
 
M--
:D
 
@CodyGray this one? (You can navigate from the timeline, I'm sure).
 
That's an entirely different question than @M-- linked...
 
10:45 PM
Confused?
 
It's not a useful question, and it asks about undefined behavior, along with other things, like the implementation-defined ordering of local variables. The OP also describes their code incorrectly -- there's not five variables, but one allocated five times.
 
Your spam flag on that answer was "disputed" by a moderator. VLQ and NAA flags from other users were automatically marked helpful when the mod deleted the answer.
 
Too many flags, too many "M..." users.
@Cody OK, no problem. Just never seen that before, so I was curious.
 
There's plenty of questions about allocating memory, which is what this question is essentially asking at its core.
 
@S.S.Anne That's not a valid close or deletion criteria as I understand it.
@S.S.Anne It's certainly not a typo or unreproducible
 
10:46 PM
@AdrianMole Never seen a spam flag disputed? Yeah, mods will do that sometimes if they understand why you flagged the post and agree it needs to be deleted, but don't think that the spam penalty is appropriate.
In the case of that answer, it looks like the YouTube link was probably a legitimate attempt to answer, so not really spam, just not appropriate for our format.
 
@MattB. I didn't vote to close it that way, it's just what it was closed as. I voted No MCVE.
 
Thanks! Now I (begin to) understand. When somebody tells me the same thing another three or four time, then I probably will understand. ;)
 
@S.S.Anne But there is a MCVE?
 
@AdrianMole Happy to repeat myself whenever desired, just let me know. :-)
 
It's not. It's just a snippet.
 
10:48 PM
A snippet that is wholly understandable by anyone who knows C
 
Also, in that case, the user had posted 4 (5?) similar links in a short spell.
 
M--
@CodyGray As you once told me: "Keep up" (Revenge :D). Two discussions are happening here at the same time. One about whether to close, delete, or reopen a question. The other about the disputed flag (which you addressed). Look at my link again, if you may. Your opinion is definitely appreciated.
 
... was discussed here about an hour or so ago.
 
Isn't the aim of this site to have a list of useful questions? Has nobody remembered that?
 
@S.S.Anne Please tell me what rule that question breaks
 
10:49 PM
@M-- Agreed, I am not keeping up. I just checked in on the room briefly (didn't read the whole transcript), but noticed that someone had said something about "mod".
I was just looking at that other question. Honestly not sure I see the problem. I don't understand the closure, and I definitely don't understand the desire to delete.
 
@MattB. Please tell me why you want to keep that question around -- has it helped you, is it even mildly interesting?
 
This discussion is getting well into the Meta phase. Interesting times, for me: also first time I've seen a 2:2 reopen:delete vote status.
 
@M-- @MattB. @S.S.Anne I've read back over the transcript (I'd previously been concentrating on the other discussion). We are quite close to the point where the requests should be moved and further requests for action move to Meta. However, it looks like the discussion is still productive.
 
Fine, I don't care.
 
Happy to take this to Meta if need be
 
10:51 PM
There, happy?
 
@MattB. Please link here, if you do so.
 
why bother, now?
 
Maybe find a duplicate target explaining why pointers cannot be printed with %u. Or include this in an answer. Then, explain that optimizing compilers can do a real number on the code, justified by the "as-if" rule in the standard. It's a fairly simple question, and a fairly simple answer. Don't really understand all of the discussion.
 
It's open.
 
Thanks!
 
10:52 PM
Waffles
 
2 messages moved to SOCVR /dev/null, further requests about this question should go to Meta.
 
I think using the %u format instead of %p is not the core problem - it's far 'deeper' than that, and about the lifetime of objects in for loops.
 
Agreed, that's why I find it (and its answers) worthwhile
 
@AdrianMole An answer describing scoping, "as-if" rule, and optimizing compilers? Drool! (Bet it's a dupe... ;-))
 
But worthwhile-ness isn't really something this room should be considering in deletion is it?
 
M--
10:53 PM
@CodyGray Where? I want waffles too ^__^
 
And Antii Antti (darn Finns) is one of the answerers - don't mess there!
 
@M-- Will let you know when I find some
Look, I found a dupe target: stackoverflow.com/questions/21665380/… (and the linked questions)
 
@Cody Big Heff vs The Finn ... I'm gonna shut up!
 
@AdrianMole Heh. I remember when I had more rep than David... He kept answering questions, whereas I moved into deleting stuff.
(Aside: Every time when someone brings up a controversial question in here, I seem to resolve it by declaring it to be a duplicate. Hmm)
 
@CodyGray Nice finds; should have figured such a basic question would have dups
 
10:58 PM
@MattB. Strong motivation to earn a gold tag badge in C, perhaps? Then you, too, can find and add multiple dupe targets.
 
Hah, I have the gold badge in my language of choice already
 
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