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7:00 PM
@bad_coder Most of meta isn't official policy, but community policy. Anything with 800 upvotes seems to be well supported. I agree a question doesn't have to have code if it consists of a set question and then an approach from the OP with specific questions, but not if it's just the set question.
 
FWIW, I think that question needs a historical lock
 
@10Rep At least with ~4000 upvotes, it's likely to be around for a while
 
The special additional requirements for homework questions are: "Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it." (from the main SO on-topic page). That doesn't, necessarily mean that they must have written code and show it, but they need to provide that minimum information.
 
@10Rep What is it with you and historical locks? The post is fine as it is..
 
@Scratte Calm down! Merely a joke.... the post doesn't seem to qualify as it is almost perfectly valid.
 
7:07 PM
Excellent, if the chat transcript jumps on the bandwagon of blanket condemning the word "homework" that enables poor decision based on uninformed misconceptions.
 
I'm almost calm. I had a coffee, so I can't be completely calm.
 
!!/coffee Scratte
 
@10Rep brews a cup of Ristretto for @Scratte
 
That should do it :D
 
But I think the point is that one needs to pick one of the reasons what are available in the close flag dialog. Saying "Homework" isn't valid, since there's nothing wrong with homework Questions. So you'll need to find out what is wrong with it :)
 
7:11 PM
@bad_coder I think that's why the term homework dump gets used. No-one minds what the source of the question if someone has a specific genuine question to help them solve it. People, rightly, object to a question which dumps an untouched question into SO and basically tells the community to do their homework while they're off to the pub.
 
@10Rep You think I need another? :D
 
@Scratte I use homework dump as a request here... I think any request should include "Homework Dump: close reason here" or something like that.
 
@DavidBuck I can't give a comprehensive answer without making waves. Another SO site is "heaven on earth"...Every question has been answered and solved. With a few hundred posts being exceptions. You know what? Those unanswered posts were actually hard to address, so the reaction was down voting.
 
@bad_coder I'm not sure what your point of contention is. I thought people were pretty much on the same page.
@10Rep I would say that the majority of the time you'll see "Needs Focus (Homework dump)" because the poster hasn't highlighted the specific issue they're having trouble with.
 
Needs Details or Clarity is also acceptable, but majority of the time "Needs Focus" is what should be used.
 
7:17 PM
@10Rep "Homework: reason" is probably fine. There is a Room rule about this.. :)
 
@DavidBuck Hey, that was plain English, let me count: 6 sentences...Not that much. But anyway, being on the same page, my contribution was spot on. Those valid posts speak about get systematically down voted, in a few a minutes, in spite being valid according to SO policy. That's it.
 
@Scratte But I do have a question: Why shouldn't it get a historical lock? :)
It's been closed and reopened plenty of times.
 
@10Rep It's not going away. There's no need. As far as I understand they're mostly used for post to avoid them being deleted. The post isn't hurting anyone and it has no delete votes.. so I say leave it be.
I'm sure plenty more people will come across it and find it useful yet.
 
7:48 PM
@Dharman Just noticed this rollback
 
Thanks. TylerH rolled it back already
 
I find it sometimes helps to have a different person repeat the rollback undo
 
@M-- That comment is wrong. I posted a new one. stackoverflow.com/questions/64374239/…
 
Both comments are gone :)
 
Don't know if it's unwelcome to mention here on top of the above discussion, but there's also problematic suggested edits emerging from the same user: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/27397422
Requesting rejection if that's alright.
 
8:02 PM
I'm not sure if there is an automatic flag for this. It looks like a mod should handle this user.
 
I probably should have just flagged the post y'all were just discussing and linked to the review.
 
yeah
I think I should stop being a programmer.
 
What vexing event happened that's lead you to that conclusion?
 
Oh boy.
 
8:11 PM
Meh - If programmers didn't make mistakes, Stack Overflow would be pointless.
5
 
Other people's mistakes are far more fun that one's own, don't ya think?
 
I studied for so many years, I have spent so much time practising and getting better, learning new technologies. Only for someone to ask how to uninstall a browser, or how to press a button, or what does the message on my screen say?
 
... I once took over a week of hard searching through my code (and lost several handfuls of hair) looking for a really annoying bug. Turned out that, when converting from grams to kilograms (or some such), I was dividing by 1.033 instead of 1.0E3. (Why didn't the compiler spot that?)
 
Sometimes Stack Overflow feels like this Yahoo answers question
 
8:17 PM
@Dharman You studied to become a curator on Stack Ooverflow?
 
@AdrianMole s/n't make mistakes/ read/
 
9:07 PM
@AdrianMole Because compilers aren't smart enough, yet, to be able to perfectly prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot while still allowing you do do everything you need to. So, instead, they are designed to allow you to shoot yourself in the foot in the most gloriously frustrating way possible. :)
 
^ Should stuff like that be mod-flagged? Or is a del-pls OK? Note: There are three answers - 2 duplicates and the original.
@Makyen Yeah - I guess if compilers were that smart, I'd be out of a job.
 
That's why you use a tried and tested unit library. As a bonus point, you can then provide support for imperial units without hardcoding a ton of conversion factors.
 
@AdrianMole You're welcome to raise a custom moderator flag for such duplicate answers. Moderators handle those routinely. If the answers are exact, character by character, duplicates, then an automatic flag is raised. That automatic flags are not raised even when the answers are very near duplicates leaves a lot of room for needing users to manually recognize that the answers are very close to the same and raise flags.
Given that the duplicates must be exact in order to raise an automatic flag, you should just assume that no auto-flag was raised and raise a custom flag. The amount of work for you to determine that it is, in fact, an exact duplicate is way more than the zero or near-zero extra effort it takes for the moderator to handle both the autoflag and a custom flag at the same time.
 
9:23 PM
 
@Makyen So, presumably, when the handling mod sees my custom flag, they will also see any auto-flag ... which makes it easy for them to approve mine. I'll bear that in mind for future cases.
... or, if it's a mod that I've recently been cheeky to/about, it makes it easy for them to decline, saying, "please don't raise custom flags for issues the system takes care of." ;-)
 
@10Rep I left that one alone ... "Yes!" is an answer.
 
Plus it has an upvote... it's not all that great. Why not del vote?
 
9:39 PM
@10Rep Because it's an Answer.. That even says which version it's on. There's not a lot more to say.
 
Maybe... I'll leave it alone.
 
@10Rep We can't delete vote answers unless they have negative scores; and we can't make del-pls requests in here unless a post is within one vote of being delible. Thus, answers with +ve scores are out of our purview.
 
I'd always try to keep things and only remove the stuff that's harmful or redundant. This isn't it.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot that it has to be downvoted to delete vote.
 
@AdrianMole "No." is also an answer, and not a VLQ one, as I've learned. :D
 
9:50 PM
@AdrianMole The handling moderator will see both flags at the same time in the display for the answer. There will be a big button that is "Delete". The moderator will click first to open the question page to the answer in another tab. Then they will click "delete" on any of the 3 to 9 (or more) deleted buttons (depending on userscripts). They will then post a comment on the then deleted answer to say "don't post duplicate answers" (paraphrased).
Opening the question page is required, because the mod-flag interface removes the listing of the answer and flags as soon as the post is deleted and the user is only notified of moderator comments on deleted posts when the comment is placed after the post is deleted, so the comment should be after the deletion.
OTOH, if the moderator has installed the correct userscript (and modified it), then they can delete the duplicate and add the comment with the click of a single button.
 
Never mind: the above was a question :p
 
@Scratte I'm not aware of a SE task that does that.
 
@10Rep yup, it's the code copy/pasted from one of the other answers, with the addition of a question.
 
Thanks.
Wasn't sure what to make of that one.
Is this Spam? stackoverflow.com/a/64380195/12708583 My first impression is no because they sort of say it's their own article, but I'm not sure.
 
@Makyen You mean it just raises a flag or there's no script?
I'm pretty sure there was a post on meta about this, but I'm not sure if I can find it.
 
10:00 PM
@10Rep the affiliation is disclosed, so it's not spam. But it is NAA (link-only)
 
However, it is not disclosed here: stackoverflow.com/a/60030429/1839439
 
@Scratte I'm only aware of the existence of the auto-flag for identical answers (i.e. no script which auto-deletes). I vaguely recall someone else saying that they thought there was such a script, and me believing them to be wrong. IIRC, that statement was in here, but during a time when I wasn't active and I only saw it when reading the transcript.
 
I think Sam has a script for that
 
@Makyen Thanks for catching this. I see you are correct in Is it acceptable to add a duplicate answer to several questions? It says "The Community user automatically flags exact duplicates". Nothing about auto-deletions.
 
@Dharman Sam has a script which adds a "Delete + comment" button when a moderator is viewing the auto-flags raised for duplicates.
 
10:10 PM
 
@10Rep It's not well written but I think it is an answer: there's no way to change your account name, I had to create a new account.
 
Huh - I interpreted it as, "I have the same issue, I have no way to create a new account".
 
@10Rep Looks like it to me.
 
@10Rep You need to read slower :)
 
@10Rep it doesn't say "I can't create a new account". it says "I had the same problem, I had to create a new account to workaround it"
@10Rep that one is NAA
 
10:16 PM
@Scratte English isn't my first language, tbh, so it isn't clear what that short sentence was to clarify.
 
@10Rep English isn't my first language either :)
 
@Scratte I'm not a fast learner by default. Plus, looking at answers like these can give me headaches :)
 
@10Rep Then don't look at them. Someone else will..
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I agree.I answered (because I could). Should I delete my answer, or not VTC, or something else?
 
@10Rep that's NAA, it's adding more information that should have been in the question.
 
10:20 PM
Yeah, I already flagged it.
 
@cigien No, please leave it (I've upvoted). I want to prevent that the user deletes their post, because they have their problem solved.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica yeah
 
@πάνταῥεῖ But then I shouldn't VTC I take it. Is that correct?
 
@cigien I don't even agree it should be closed. It's just asking how to do something. Lack of research isn't a close reason.
 
10:23 PM
@cigien no, it's inappropriate to vtc a question that you have answered.
 
@Scratte It does still Need More Detail.
I think that would be a better close reason.
 
@10Rep Why? It's was perfectly answerable. What details do you think it needs?
 
@Scratte but there are so many ways you could answer that question. It needs focus/details to get an appropriate answer.
 
Oh, I didn't see Cigien's answer.
 
@Nick Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks.
 
10:25 PM
@cigien VTC is OK, but L'enjeu you know ;-)
 
@Nick So you say that the asker needs to know how to do it in order to ask how to do it? :)
 
@Scratte no, but I think they need to be more explicit as to what "efficiently" means
 
I just got the developer survey. There's a question about my ethnicity, so I'm putting "Martian" >:D
 
There's also the issue of the "029" which is an illegal octal literal
 
@10Rep Klingon or Ferenghi would also be a good choice :D
 
10:30 PM
@Nick I think that's just a word. I don't think they need the absolutely most efficient way to do it. They just need a way and added that word, which unfortunately is a trigger word, but they don't know it :)
 
@Nick That's the interesting bit. There's many ways of implementing a solution more efficiently than I did. But I suspect OP doesn't really mean efficient
 
^ that :)
 
@Nick Huh? It's a string, I don't think converting to integer would give an oktal value there.
 
^ Sounds like a SO question. But please do some research first ;)
 
10:32 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ it just adds to my confusion... anyway, I've retracted my close vote.
 
I don't think the question should be closed, because it does contribute something useful to the repository of knowledge (considering it isn't a duplicate).
@πάνταῥεῖ Or maybe Kree :)
 
Just put Area: Antarctica, Species: squirrel, Gender: Yes, Colour: blue.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Then it should be closed as a duplicate, not Needs More Focus.
 
@10Rep I unfortunately missed that :P
 
10:35 PM
@Scratte For gender I ran out of silly ideas so I put "why?"
 
Completely unrelated, my profile pic seems to have led people to respond to me in French :p I'm just partial to surrealist art. My French is tres terrible :(
 
But they didn't ask about my skin color, at least
 
@cigien Ah, I wasn't sure. Your nick also sounds french. I am a big fan of Magritte too BTW.
 
@10Rep Isn't that covered in ethnicity.. or some other fancy word?
 
Last time they asked about both (ethnicity and skin color).
 
10:37 PM
@cigien I was not part of the conversation, but isn't your avatar a famous painting?
 
I think I just default always skip those, but maybe I should just start Answering deliberately bogus stuff. I don't understand why they need to know this.
 
@Dharman Yes, it's also one of my favourites. link.
 
What is ethnicity?
Honestly, if I would ever be asked about my ethnicity I would have no clue what to say. I am not sure I even fully comprehend what it means.
 
@cigien It turned out that Google Translate tricked me anyways, I meant something completely different (pillory) :P
 
I find it strange that people put so much importance on belonging to a certain group. We are all humans... well, some of us are bots.
 
10:44 PM
@cigien I just assumed you were Luxembourgs.
 
Well, I am not greek either (it's even written at my profile page) :D
 
@Dharman It does a lot of times say something about culture.. unfortunately its removed the individual aspect and the fact that some people don't agree with their "own" culture.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ You may not be a Greek, but you have the air of a Geek.
 
I am a nerd from the bones :P
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I actually thought you were Greek. It's probably becaue your nick is written with Greek letters.
 
10:47 PM
Ping prevention ...
And a motto I like.
 
Everything flows IIRC
 
Especially the coffee! :D
 
@Nick You should change your nick to be written in Greek so you don't get pinged here
 
That's also why I put the pic of the stream recently.
 
10:48 PM
Nicholas is already a greek name...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Funny.. your username is always the first on the list on chat when using the @ :D
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I thought you meant you like the motto "I am not Greek" :p I was confused by that :)
 
Yeah, it appears before any other characters are typed automatically to allow users who can't enter those characters to ping
 
This has to be a bug i.stack.imgur.com/J2ZX7.png
 
@cigien No, that's just there to make it chrystal clear :D
The â„¢ is also important ;-)
 
10:58 PM
To paraphrase Salvador Dali: "There is only one difference between myself and a Greek."
 
@Nick I am mostly OK being pinged in chat. At posts it seems to be an insurmountable hurdle for many users.
 
... "I am not Greek."
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Sure, my issue is people don't understand that doing @Nick in chat pings all Nick's... why can't people reply? :p
 
Now we closed the loop even regarding the surrealism
 
10:59 PM
(With Dali, it was "madman" in place of "Greek" and, "I am not mad!")
 
@Nick Did you just ping all nicks? :D
 
@Scratte Nah, just me and that weird one that looks like a cloud and rainbow
 
@Nick You must mean StormyNick :)
 
It's a cloud and a rainbow and a full moon!
Not denying the weird part...
 
11:02 PM
Full moon?
You mean sun right?
I mean they look similar :p one is just brighter
 
@Nick It is in fact a moon
 
@Nick Yup, a full moon. I took the photo at about 6pm looking east.
 
Around sunset... shortly before sunset the sun is up you know
curses
 
@Nick Are you confused about the east/west thing? :D
 
Check the timestamps
(and history)
 
11:08 PM
Anyway the sun has to be behind you to see a rainbow
 
Actually, a bright enough whitelightsource has to be behind you :p
But yes, touché, I guess it is the moon
 
Potentially, could also be totally unrelated and user error
 
@Dharman I think so.
 
Since we are talking about it.. when the image is very small as on my screen, it kind of just looks like a mushroom. The rainbow isn't very clear, so that looks like the stem.
 
11:12 PM
@eyllanesc Can you change your name to Nick? It doesn't look right: "Closed 38 secs ago by eyllanesc, Nick, Nick."
12
 
We've been looking for a 3rd Nick
 
Is it ok to VTD a question that I've answered if it's already closed?
 
@cigien Sure, if you give a link I can help
 
@cigien You can VTD whatever you like, you can't bring it in here for support though while your answer is on it (well, you can for discussion theoretically, not for a delv-pls though)
 
@Scratte yeah, mine too... I need a better pic...
 
11:17 PM
@Dharman I don't think I can, if I have an answer, as one of the Nicks pointed out:)
 
But sure about that. It's a very pretty mushroom :) And on closer inspection one is nicely surprised :)
 
Wouldn't we be deleting your answer though? Do you have any interest in that?
 
@cigien Well, deleting the question will implicitly delete your answer, so you could just delete the answer first, then delete-vote the question (unless, of course, your answer is accepted).
 
Unless your going to get a lot of rep from it I don't understand why this is not allowed
 
11:19 PM
... and if you have only a deleted answer, then that doesn't count as "involvement" by this Room's Rules.
 
Nor if it's a CW answer
 
@Dharman Because it could be an accepted answer at -12. Then it would be an advantage to have it deleted as far as reputation goes.
 
@Scratte You can make that CW, right?
 
That... would be getting a lot of rep out of it, like Dharman said :p
 
@Dharman I suppose :)
 
11:21 PM
Doesn't making an answer CW undo all rep gain/loss?
 
@Dharman No. Only rep. changes after making it a CW.
 
@Dharman Normally no, especially for an answer that's accepted with 5 UV :) But I hit my cap for today a while ago, so i don't care as much, and it's very much a dupe (though not closed as such).
 
I think so, at least rep changes in the last x days
> The original author keeps the reputation gained (or lost) before their post entered community mode.
I stand corrected
 
@cigien Is this the post discussed earlier? with "029"?
 
I can't vote it yet, it's too fresh. I can vote to delete in 2 days
 
11:23 PM
Ahhhh, that's the post that was being discussed when I got pinged twice because cigien doesn't know how to reply ;)
 
@Scratte I'm not sure I can confirm/deny that. Skirting the rules, it seems if I do that :)
 
Should I do anything about this? stackoverflow.com/a/64380782/1839439 Edit? Flag? VTC?
 
@cigien Heh.. I do not think that would be circumventing the rules, since I asked about it :) But.. why do you want to delete it?
 
@Dharman Ehhhh, I'd leave the answer, it's useful to OP, both for fixing their post and solving their problem, maybe VTC as needs debugging details?
 
@Nick Oh no, was I pinging the wrong Nick or something?
 
11:26 PM
If you use @Nick it will ping all Nick's active in the room in the last x days :), there's a reply button at the right hand side of each message to respond to specific user
 
Yes, you just did! :)
 
Damn, I always forget code blocks don't cover that, apologies
 
@Nick Not you, @cigien
 
Oh
 
Oh, so sorry about that. I've definitely been @ ing every one :( Thanks for the tip.
 
11:28 PM
Don't worry, I'm explaining it to people one at a time, eventually I'll not get pings for so long I'm classed as inactive and stop getting them altogether
 
\o
 
^^ As one of the close-voters who failed to properly identify the duplicate, I think deletion is a reasonable option.
 
@Nick does it ping if it's code-formatted?
 
@Scratte Well, I'm trying to do with a post what I would do if I wasn't involved. And I would delete this particular question.
 
@RyanM I don't know, I can't tell anymore
@Nick did that ping you?
 
11:30 PM
@RyanM no it doesn't.
 
@cigien You can see in the chat who is pinged when you're using it @N will ping all 5 users. Notice the two Nicks in the first option :)
 
@Nick that one did but your one before didn't...
 
Potentially because of the other more recent ping...
 
perhaps it's just when it's at the beginning of the message?
 
@RyanM does this ping? [update: nope, you cannot @ping yourself]
 
11:31 PM
How about this then @Nick?
 
Yes, that one did too. So I don't know why the prior one didn't, the only ping I got was from cigien's message immediately before yours
 
@nick @nick What if I want to ping both of you? Does it ping you both twice?
 
The ROs must hate me at this point, whenever I come in here it's to complain about pings and strike up strange conversations that nobody is interested in
@Dharman Nah, just one
 
@Nick you get a lot of replies for conversations nobody is interested in ;P
 
@cigien Hmm.. but what about those 5 users that find it useful and probably now will get a raise because they've done such a good job today? (copying from Stack Overflow)
 
11:33 PM
@AdrianMole You can reply to yourself using the numerical ending (50702010 in this case) of a message permalink, @RyanM, and preceding it with a colon.
 
@RyanM No that's just people trying to talk to the other Nick
 
I thought they were trying to talk to you! :)
 
@Nicks won't ping anyone.. :D
 
Hmmm, we need to disambiguate somehow...we'll have to give you nick-names.
 
I did, once. FoxyNick and StormyNick :)
 
11:35 PM
@Scratte already did - StormyNick and FoxyNick
 
@Scratte Sorry, I'm not good at judging these things. I don't see an emoticon in your question, so I assume you're serious. I have no idea what you mean.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about that.... Zoe is the resident fox
 
@Nick Heh.. It was a while ago though. Funny you remember that :)
 
I didn't
wait
 
@cigien I meant if 5 users upvoted a post, I take it they found it useful. The rest about how they've used it was kind of a joke.
 
11:38 PM
@Scratte well, it was helped by it being the comment next to the one you linked to earlier... :P
 
@Nick Ahh.. Right :) The Moon, the Storm and the Fox all packed in two lines of chat :)
 
@Scratte Aah I see, thanks for clarifying. That's interesting. Personally I of course UV a question that I find useful, but I often UV answers if they're correct, and would be useful to someone else with the same question. In this case, apart from the OP, I doubt the answer directly helped 4/5 people.
 
It was an intense time, all right! :)
 
@cigien I think we all use those votes in each our way. I also tend to upvote a post if I learn something. Which is a little unfair when I think of it.. since there's lots of things I've already learned :)
 
@RyanM You can reply to yourself though :P
@10Rep Like so.
 
11:47 PM
@10Rep Replying to yourself is the second sign of madness...
 
what's the first sign?
 
A old musician called Suggs coming along the road towards you.
 
@AdrianMole You mean this guy? google.com/…
 
That's the fella!
 
11:54 PM
Pfft... limits
 
@MarcoBonelli I learnt about that when I was upvoting comments on the thanks feature post.
 
@10Rep hahaha, I also upvoted a lot of em on that post :'). Apparently not enough.
 
@10Rep None. It already has a 1 cm thick coat of it..
 
Nice. That never happens to me anymore..
 
11:59 PM
Why?
 
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