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12:02 AM
@CodyGray Question on your feedback for this MetaSmoke report: why the fp feedback? The linked Google Doc was written by the organization the username was titled after. Was there something I missed?
 
@Das_Geek Uh, to be fair, I did not look at the Google Drive link because...no thanks? It looked like it was an attempt to answer the question, but still NAA, so I deleted. Didn't look like unrelated spam to me.
And even making the argument that it is spam because it's self-promotional, I'm...not sure that's the kind of thing that MetaSmoke is designed to handle. But I could be wrong.
 
12:29 AM
@CodyGray I also could be wrong, but given that one of the reasons Smokey gives when catching posts can be "username similar to website in answer", I think it's fairly safe to say those kinds of posts are fair game.
To view the Drive link, I pasted the link in Google Translate, which showed me the first page of the doc without me actually visiting the page directly
 
 
3 hours later…
3:56 AM
@Das_Geek My understanding of when to mark a MetaSmoke report as a "false positive" is based on what Makyen told me a while back, that the question you should ask yourself is, "If we were to automatically block the submission of posts that were detected by MetaSmoke, would we want this one to have been blocked?" In this case, I don't think so, and I think that applies in many other similar cases as well.
That the user name is a match to a link in the body of the post is a good heuristic, because it also catches irrelevant/gibberish spam, like someone trying to promote a travel agency. So I'm not saying that we should remove that heuristic.
@SotiriosDelimanolis How can there possibly be so many people wanting to do that very same thing in Java? Weird.
 
@CodyGray Blah, I wasn't able to vote on that one, they self duped themselves.
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis Not sure what you mean. You were the person who marked that question as a duplicate.
 
They asked a second question the next day that someone else closed as a duplicate of the first.
And it's so frustrating. They post a snippet of code as "things they tried" when they obviously didn't. That snippet has an obvious error that was addressed in the first duplicate and they just ignored it for the second.
 
Oh, yeah... I can't actually tell the difference between this question and this other question. I'm not sure if it's my lack of Java knowledge, my lack of focus, or what.
 
farm farm farm
anyway, good night y'all
 
4:32 AM
o/
 
|o|
 
 
1 hour later…
6:01 AM
When I see comments like this, I kind of want to reply to the user "the commenters are just trying to help the OP to avoid the XY problem", but the comment isn't the appropriate place to do that... I can only NLN flag the comment. (/me looking for advice.)
 
@user202729 Yes, a NLN flag is appropriate. (Well, not anymore, because it's already been poofed.)
An edit to the question might also be appropriate...
 
(Thanks.) / Should I flag the comments asking for contexts? I mean, they can be useful if the OP has an XY problem, but now the OP will not reply and the question is answerable enough without the context.
 
@user202729 The comment which the comment you linked was talking about could also be NLN, as the OP has edited that comment into the question. Actually, I'm not sure if the comment you linked was talking about the other comment or the text in the question. :-;
 
Yeah...That's a bit trickier. You really need to delete the entire thread of conversation.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:45 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:55 AM
@IljaEverilä Morphed to Too broad
 
10:15 AM
@IljaEverilä you are having a chat with yourself?
 
Plop folks
@rene One's self is probably one's most interesting discussion partner, albeit slightly obnoxious
 
10:35 AM
@Kyll you speak from experience?
 
@rene At times, but here it was for the sake of making it clear that I meant that previous cv-pls :P
 
@rene Oh, do I
 
11:28 AM
@Shree and just molested the question again
 
:) dang. Lets hope unfamiliar with formatting.
 
12:13 PM
@Makyen heads up: The API changed for close reasons and you commented there: meta.stackexchange.com/a/339714/158100
 
12:32 PM
 
@rene Thanks for the heads-up.
Arrrg. Some of those changes look like they were just because they felt like it. For example, was it really necessary to change from "duplicate" to "Duplicate Of..."? The reason and closed_reason fields are either intended as human readable or as program understandable. If it's human readable, then they switched from using lowercase to capitalizing every word. On "Duplicate Of..." the capitalization and text/wording change could easily completely alter how it should be displayed to the user.
If it's intended as machine readable, then the change is just change for change's sake, which is ... bad. Given that these fields are the only place the reason for closure is identified, other than the HTML text provided in the description field, these values must be machine understandable, as there's no other identifiers for the close reason.
It would have been nice if they had only made one set of changes, rather than change it 9 days ago, without saying anything, and then change it again today.
OK. End frustration.
It looks like, a few/several hours ago, they also changed the values for some of the calls to SE-internal endpoints wrt. how reasons for CVs are identified, and the values in the CV-dialog.
The Request generator listens to those requests and uses those values. So far, it looks mostly OK, but I haven't fully tested. In other words, please keep an eye out for any issues. This set of changes may affect other scripts which rely on the values for either the SE-internal CV endpoint or the SE API close reasons.
The changes are reflected in the close reasons automatically generated and used in cv-pls requests here. The URRS will need a slight adjustment in it's detection of close reasons for sorting in the review page. I'll get that out later today.
 
@Makyen Pretty sure they just saw the values hard-coded depending on the ID, and just went "screw it" and used the close reason name field or similar instead
 
3:09 PM
@yivi Did OP post MCVE?
 
3:28 PM
@Kyll No, they did not. And it's hard for them to actually post an MCVE, since the behaviour reported is "it works on my machine but it doesn't in another machine". The question is closed already anyway.
 
@yivi K
 
3:44 PM
> Moonlight is a Mono based Linux port of Silverlight.
Nostalgia strike
 
4:23 PM
 
@Makyen Was there previously no distinction made in the API between "unclear" and "opinion-based", as Yaakov's edit to this answer suggests? Or was that a mistake?
 
4:47 PM
@CodyGray I read it the same way -- it looks like there were two separate IDs with the same written description: unclear
 
@CodyGray I believe that's a mistake. I think I recall seeing "opinion" in that field, but I don't have something specifically that tests for it, and I don't recall having saved an API response that shows it. [From time-to-time I save API responses to work on offline, which should get cleaned up, but sometimes don't.]
What I recall of that field is it showed the primary close reasons as displayed on the first page of the CV dialog ("duplicate", "too broad", "unclear", "opinion", and "off topic"). There were also some older close reasons, like "exact duplicate", etc. If you wanted to determine which actual off-topic reason(s) was/were used (i.e. what was chosen from the "Off Topic" page of the CV dialog), you have to parse the HTML text which is in the description.
 
though I dunno why he moved the status-completed tag to the middle of the post; that's just confusing
 
@Makyen Yup, I think that is correct. And...that seems to be what Yaakov is continuing to do with the latest updates.
 
"1" "exact duplicate"
"2" "off topic"
"3" "not constructive"
"4" "not a real question"
"7" "too localized"
"10" "general reference"
"20" "noise of pointless"
"101" "duplicate"
"102" "off-topic"
"103" "unclear what you're asking"
"104" "too broad"
"105" "primarily opinion-based"
"201" "off-topic (channels)"
These were the old ones
 
It almost makes sense. But it's kind of silly, since the new close reasons aren't fundamentally changed from the old ones. They're just more descriptive new names.
Surely that's "noise or pointless"?
Also...nostalgia. Want.
 
4:58 PM
@CodyGray I don't know what to tell you. I got this list from SEDE: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1170071
 
Heh. Well, obviously, years ago, someone made a typo.
 
Overall, my real issue is that the information about closure reasons provided in the SE API is poorly designed. It has fields which are providing text which is intended for a specific way of displaying the information to users (i.e. a specific use case), but doesn't really provide fields that are actually intended to be used programmatically to differentiate between close reasons. It's fine to also provide the human readable text, but an API should be providing machine identifiable reasons/IDs.
Frankly, to get the real closure reason(s), you must parse the HTML text in the `description, and allow for the possibility of more than one off-topic reason. That, quite literally (prior to these changes), was no better than fetching the question page and scraping it for the close reasons.
I haven't checked yet if they messed with the description field. At least on question pages, there's no way to differentiate between being closed for a custom reason or being closed as a resource request. It would be unfortunate if they changed the description field so that it was no longer possible to determine that information at all.
 
I'm more annoyed they took useful data out of the closure reasons. On sites where I can't CV, I often find the new blocks maddeningly vague
And on sites I do, they sometimes omit the useful data. CV as SU or SF and that message is no longer present
 
@Makyen I completely agree. I had to remap these values to their Ids in my database anyway. Why are they provided as strings and on top of that HTML-escaped(by default)
 
5:07 PM
@Machavity Exactly. Just ranted about that here.
 
@Machavity Wow. My dad works for Siemens so I'll have to ask him if he knew him.
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica In that location?
Siemens has like 400,000 employees
 
@TylerH No, he's based out of Minnesota but travels all over the states.
 
@גלעדברקן What more focus does it need? Looks to me like there's a minimal, complete, and verifiable example, along with a concrete question: how can I improve the time complexity?
 
@CodyGray Except we have no idea what problem they are trying to solve.
Easily fixed with an edit though
 
5:20 PM
Ah, yeah.
You want someone to edit the challenge description into the question.
Fair enough.
But yeah, things that can be fixed with an edit generally should be. Always better to salvage a question than close it. In this case, it is possible to do so, since the information is there. You don't have to be a mind-reader.
 
@Machavity I agree. They omit useful information and/or make it hard to recognize. That's quite frustrating.
On SO, the specific SU/SF difference is identifiable based on the information in the page, at least to users who can vote to close. For SU, the displayed text contains "general computing". For SF, the displayed text contains "professional server". Or, at least that was the case as of the last time I tested/looked at questions which were closed for those reasons.
I've been working on a userscript to adjust the new post notices to show more concise information. As they are, they take up way to much screen space for experienced users. The new descriptions are good for new users, but get frustrating, at least for me, after seeing them a couple/few times.
The plan is that it will also put back the missing information on sites where you can't vote to close. However, that part was A) waiting to see if they messed with the reason, closed_reason, and description fields in the SE API, and B) is, due to off-topic reasons being customizable per-site, a much larger task, which I will only do partially. Currently, it's only really covered in the script on the sites I can vote to close: SO, MSO, and MSE.
There's provision for adding configurations for the off-topic reasons on other sites, but I'm not going to work on/test 170+ sites.
 
@Makyen I believe they take up less space now than they used to...
How could they not? Information has been removed, the descriptions have been shortened.
 
Byte-wise, yes. But then it met the UX-team....
 
So that's definitely taking up more space.
2 whole pixels vertically!
 
I think that border is a regression visually, personally
 
5:32 PM
But they copy-pasted the Bootstrap style guide, and that requires borders. You just don't understand, @TylerH.
 
I bet they use the full jquery library too despite only making use of 2% of the feature set
 
@CodyGray I have not actually measured it. Part of the issue is that they take up all the room at the top of the post, so it's much more noticeable. It's also lacks the clear indication of reasons, and the formatting doesn't allow the eye to easily pick out the specific information about the close reason. They have also added notices (e.g. "this post is hidden" on all deleted posts).
 
@TylerH Summarizing your complaint, then, you’re saying that the site needs more jQuery?
3
 
SO, where memes never get old
 
-1 not enough jQuery
BTW "Duplicate of…" contains a unicode character HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS cc @Makyen
I am saying this, because Yakoov used three dots instead.
 
5:51 PM
@Dharman Yeah, I should have been more careful to double check if it was using or ..., and been more precise in what I typed here. Frankly, given that I have to parse it programmatically, and potentially still match the "exact duplicate" reason, I just went for matching uplicate, or the existence of original_questions.
 
6:01 PM
@Dharman Do you know of a list of all old off-topic reasons?
 
@Makyen No, I don't have this information
 
6:16 PM
@Makyen Thanks. That actually makes my post clearer
 
@Makyen Is there something specific you want to know?
 
6:35 PM
@CodyGray Overall, I'm wanting to map the text displayed in questions and the text provided in the SE API's description field for all close reasons into short descriptions of those close reasons. Ideally, I'd have a list of old close reasons and short description, along with at least one non-deleted example question ID for each off-topic and main close reason. [Note: the text displayed in questions is different than what's in the SE API.]
There's a list of the main close reasons (above). Having a list of the off-topic reasons which have been used limits my search-space (i.e. I don't have to wonder if I've found examples of all types).
So, just a list of all the off-topic reasons which have been used is a significant step forward.
 
@Makyen You can search SEDE for it.
I am right now trying to understand what is the difference between the old and new Off-topic reason. i.e. 2 and 102 I have written this query to get some sample data, but I can't see any difference.
 
@Dharman Yeah.... that's what I figured I'd have to do. I guess it's time to actually learn SQL. :-;
 
@Makyen Is this what you are after? data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1170104
 
@Makyen There are a lot of old close reasons that were used at various times and then retired. I can get you some of that text, but I'm not even sure it's complete. And there are other close reasons beyond "off-topic".
 
6:46 PM
@Dharman Yep, that's fairly close. Definitely a step in the right direction. Although, the list is incomplete (it's missing at least "too localized"). Thanks.
 
@Makyen Too localized is not an off-topic reason
 
@Dharman Right. Sorry. I briefly looked at the wrong list on my end.
 
7:24 PM
@M-- Why do you think so? You can mod-flag, but I do not see any need
 
FYI - The ROs have briefly discussed Rule #14 and have agreed to rephrase the first sentence to "Avoid extended discussion about requests, but be prepared to provide reasoning if asked to do so".
5
We'll be updating the FAQ shortly to reflect that
 
@Machavity Could you update the dup target, please? stackoverflow.com/q/59381507/1839439
 
7:39 PM
1 message moved from SOCVR /dev/null
 
We love our Chat mod tools ...
 
@rene Out of curiosity, what are the mod tools? I know of moving and removing, and standard user-level actions like kicking and banning. Is there something lacking that should be there?
 
Room timeouts
 
@Das_Geek A detailed description of chat moderation tools can be found here.
 
@CodyGray Thanks, as always, with the handy-dandy Meta link :)
 
7:46 PM
@Das_Geek batch move. Even with the RO user - script it is a pain.
 
@rene Ah, I see. No easy way to delete all message from a user within a certain bounds. Yeah I can see where that might be nice
 
@Das_Geek yeah, I wanted/needed to cherry pick...
 
I see the Ctrl + Click option; shame there's no Shift + Click option. Batch select then unselect what you need
 
user10957435
@TylerH Did it already get changed? I can't see what it said before.
 
@Das_Geek The SOCVR Archiver also adds the following for ROs and moderators: semi-automatic archiving of requests (actually based on a set of rules enumerated in an the Archiver script); a manual-move list, which can have questions added to it, removed, or the messages moved to a list of different rooms. These can be done on messages in the main chat, transcripts, search pages, or user recent post lists. It also adds display of deleted message content on the main chat page and transcripts.
 
7:54 PM
@Makyen Ooh that last part would be nice. I use a similar tool on another chat system to show deleted messages
 
@Das_Geek The Archiver allows you to select the text from one or more messages, with a normal mouse select action, and then add all messages with selected text to the manual-move list. Chrome doesn't allow text selection to be discontinuous areas, but Firefox does. For example, you could just do ctrl-A and click to add all the messages on the page to the manual-move list.
 
@Makyen Oh wow that is nice.
Why bother updating SE when userscripts work just fine :)
 
@Das_Geek That's pretty much what it has come to. While there are some things that can't be fixed by anyone but SO, a lot of functionality can and is "fixed" via user scripts. There is even StackApps.SE for this.
 
@Machavity Oh yeah I do remember reading that post. That addition would be nice
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Yep! I've read quite a few posts on that SE site. I host one or two apps, myself
 
@Chipster Yes it already got changed.
Previously it just said "Avoid extended discussion about requests"
 
“Extended” or “protracted” discussion is probably always bad, but I think there’s an important pedagogical end to be served in allowing or even promoting discussion about curation activities. It’s one of the primary reasons I try to be about in here.
 
extended discussion is disallowed primarily for two reasons:

- such discussion serves to hide *-pls requests with large walls of text
- the longer two sides go on discussing something, the more likely one or both parties (or others) are likely to get incensed over it.
Otherwise, discussion in and of itself would be a good thing as it would lead to better understanding of not only each other and each others' beliefs/thought process, but also of the system and what types of questions are good items for review here.
 
user10957435
@TylerH Ah, okay. That makes more sense why your quote looked the same as the site. also, thanks @rene for your help to.
 
8:11 PM
@Das_Geek If discussion gets so involved or widespread that it needs its own 'container', so to speak, that's when we suggest making a Meta question about it. That way it's not only out of this room but also more readily available for the entire Meta community to weigh in on.
 
@TylerH Fair enough. Thanks for the info
 
@CodyGray Your presence is appreciated. Maybe not needed to say but you don't have to run this room on your own. Feel free to either link to the FAQ or ask for help of the RO team. We all love @Makyen his monologues ... ;)
4
 
:-)
 
Quite :-P
 
@TylerH or we defer to a room meeting.
 
user10957435
8:13 PM
I know there is the ministry of silly hats, but perhaps it would be good to make a discussion SOCVR that pertains to moderation discussion. Silly Hats seems to be more general purpose. Just a thought. Probably a bad idea, or been thought of before and rejected, but a thought nevertheless.
 
Second that. Makyen-logues have served as some of the best support in my (still in-progress) journey to learn about and help with this site.
 
@CodyGray I don't believe there was ever the intent to imply discussion was not permitted. As far as I know, it's always been permitted, even desirable, for people to question why a request was made, if they disagree with the request, or even just the request reason. As you say, discussion is good. It allows everyone to share their understanding and learn from other points of view.
 
@rene For some reason, my seemingly limitless knowledge of what is contained on Meta does not extend to the FAQ for this room, so I have a hard time quoting it. At any rate, thanks, and I know.
 
@rene Sure, if it's about the rules, but if it's about a Q, we wouldn't have a meeting item about that
Makyen monologues are like Morrowind journal entries: very detailed explanations in a world without quest markers :-)
 
Sometimes, I’m not sure we need both Makyen and myself. He says everything I wish I would. And with a highly respectable word count, not like one of those pithy people I could never hope to understand.
 
8:15 PM
@Chipster I have enough with one room to manage.
 
@TylerH Okay that's the second time you've mentioned Morrowind here. At this rate I'll be forced to play it haha
 
user10957435
@rene It's like I say, it might be a bad thought...
 
Yes ;)
 
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick? tenor.com/view/…
 
user10957435
@CodyGray Makyen can't nuke questions and answers though. So having you around is helpful for handling spam, cv-pls, and delete-pls requests for that reason alone. Plus, your company is also great to have added to our collective pool :D.
 
8:20 PM
That’s kinda what the flag queue is for, though. Which I might look at more if I wasn’t such a slacker.
 
@CodyGray It's OK. That's why we have Makyen. He has memorized the Book of Armorments FAQ and can quote it chapter an verse
 
Yeah, we need glasses here to combat blurry flowers
 
@CodyGray I'd also say very similar things about your comments and posts. They are largely what I would like to have said, with enough detail to be understandable. :-) OTOH, I disagree that we're redundant. While we do overlap on a number of occasions (which is often nice/helpful), we also see things from somewhat different points of view. Personally, I feel we both bring different things to the table.
 
@Das_Geek They don’t help. Still blurry as ever.
 
@CodyGray My eyes try to readjust themselves every time I look at that profile pic
 
8:22 PM
@Das_Geek you should :-)
 
@Makyen The more the merrier. I still want you added to the moderator pool.
 
@TylerH I will eventually. Just upgraded my PC after 12 years, and I have quite the backlog haha
All these new rendering capabilities, my eyes can't get enough
Which reminds me. Thanks to @NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica for the recommendations on parts. My new case looks kickin'
 
You're welcome. How'd the build go?
 
Other than draining my will to live while trying to move the metal panel into the "open" configuration, quite well
 
What’d you end up with?
 
8:30 PM
A computer I suppose
 
@CodyGray Thanks. At this point, I'm undecided on that. The recent issues with SE make me much more reluctant to commit to being a moderator. There are moderators I greatly respect in both the remain and leave/reduce effort camps. That makes me feel I really don't have enough information to decide which direction I would have chosen. I wouldn't want to run if I would have made the choice to leave. Doing that really wouldn't be appropriate, IMO.
 
From the outside, I have significant issues with how SE has acted.
 
@Das_Geek Had issues with that?
 
This is an image of when I first set it up. Cable management is a bit better now
 
8:33 PM
@Makyen I don’t have enough information to make a good choice, either. There is no good choice.
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Mainly coz I didn't realize how much other stuff I needed to remove before moving that panel. It was always: remove a thing, try to move the panel, fail to move the panel, look for the next thing I needed to remove, repeat.
 
Sounds like someone didn't follow the instruction booklet ;)
 
Unpopular opinion: lights in a computer are silly
 
I'll agree though, it is a lot of stuff. Moving to the open location takes out like 10 LBS of case material
 
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica I did, too! Wasn't my fault they didn't show every little thing that had to be done. Felt like I was assemnbling an IKEA chair
 
8:35 PM
@CodyGray They are annoying. Next time I am not putting any lights in my computer
 
@CodyGray Agreed. However, my hand was partially forced in that some of the on sale items I wanted to get came with lights, and so I figured I'd at least make the lighting even
 
@CodyGray I'm in the "they are annoying" camp. Maybe they would be OK, if your intent is presentation/selling it, but I really don't want them on when I'm using it.
 
The motherboard I got has multiple headers on it to plug in LED strips. Good lord.
 
FWIW, it's really easy to turn the lights off.
 
@Dharman Annoying, for sure. I don’t have a computer in my bedroom at all, but every time I’m in a hotel, I have to figure out something to do with the bright, pulsing light on my notebook when charging. And that’s just one LED. Big, bright, pointless case lights just make you look like a tool.
@Das_Geek That’s why you switch to “workstation” boards. More reliable performance, and no stupid stuff.
 
8:38 PM
One thing I will say is that backlit keyboards are a necessity. I have a hard enough time seeing as it is, so any help I get is a good thing in my book
 
Why would you be looking at the keyboard?
2
 
Not all of us can touch type
 
Because I'm a crappy typist, and to get my WPM above 40 I need eyes on
Honestly, Vim has been a good force in slowly improving my form
 
It's creepy when I am talking with someone and looking them in their eyes, while typing furiously on my keyboard at the same time.
 
laptop?
 
8:40 PM
@CodyGray I drove so many of my elementary school typing teachers nuts because I could peck faster than most of the touch-typers
 
@CodyGray I usually carry some electrical tape, just in case I need it in a hotel room. If it was something of mine, I'd probably permanently modify it. Such LEDs are sometimes useful, but they can be useful at 10%, or so of their designed light level.
 
@Makyen Agreed. I have everything waaaaaay down, and no pulsing at all
@CodyGray I only agree with you partly there. For my purposes, I think a workstation board would be at the same time overkill and insufficient
 
I like to have a slight backlight just for ease of resetting my hand/finger positions sometimes in the dark
other than that it's just for effect
@Dharman I do that as a display of dominance
 
Yeah, the little nubs on F and J aren't indented enough
Though to be honest, my computer is so quiet the lights are useful to quickly check if my system is on
 
@merv Do you think they would be fond of that question?
 
8:46 PM
@Dharman I still think it needs work to be a good question, i.e. still rather vague.
 
@merv Which is why I voted Needs more focus
 
@Makyen Note: Such modification doesn't require changes to the electronics. It can usually be accomplished with electrical tape that has a small hole, or some other type of covering (e.g. a Sharpie, various painted-on coverings, etc.; i.e. things that won't void a warranty).
 
@Dharman yeah, I'm on the fence. The title strikes me as an "explain the maths to me" question, whereas the link and tags sort of imply they want a coded PyMC3 model.
 
@Makyen Personally, I get out the soldering iron every time :) /s
 
@merv I would recommend to migrate only the questions, which you strongly feel would be a good fit for the target site. If the question is unclear or opinion-based or too broad then just close it as such here.
 
8:56 PM
@Das_Geek Well, yeah, usually it's just changing a resister, but that often voids the warranty, and most people don't have the experience or tools make the change such that it looks like original work.
 
@Makyen Sorry, I had edited in a sarcasm tag afterwards. Clearly the only time you should break out such drastic measures is when you had assembled it yourself in the first place
 
9:16 PM
@Das_Geek Ahhh.. I missed the sarcasm and smiley. :-)
 
Is this rude, or just close-worthy?
 
Nah. Close/delete worthy
 
@sideshowbarker Thanks. That was the bane of my existence this week. One Mac user and Safari was broken on our internal site. Mozilla docs buries that little tidbit
 
@Machavity oh. Maybe I can update the MDN article(s) to try to make it more clear
 
9:36 PM
nice JS flex @Machavity
 
@sideshowbarker It might have just been me. It's a yellow box below the fold. I scrolled past it without realizing
Maybe having the examples below note the Safari difference instead of just linking to another page (which never clearly covers the subject)
 
@Machavity Over the last couple of years, MDN has changed a number of pages to include things by referencing other pages, rather than having them directly on the page as a section. Personally, I feel this has gone overboard and made many pages less usable/understandable/available as a reference. I haven't checked if that's why that page is linking elsewhere, but it would be good to check the history to see if it was specifically moved off the page.
I agree that there should be separate pages covering many topics, and that duplicating content is bad, but it's possible to go too far. Potentially better would be to transclude sections, as Wikipedia permits, so the text only exists/edited in one place, but is displayed where it's needed.
 
9:53 PM
Is this on-topic? [Ubuntu 16.06 Unable to locate package msodbcsql
](https://stackoverflow.com/q/59417056/861716)
 
@GertArnold I would say so; it's my understanding that questions about the installation of products, even if those products are programming-related, are off-topic
 
@GertArnold I’ll go with “yes” because it’s a tool used primarily by programmers
 
Here's a helpful TylerH guideline
@Das_Geek Sorry, I meant "I would say no", not "I would say so". Didn't notice to edit in time
 
@Das_Geek Yes, figured that :). So far, inconclusive. I'll leave it alone.
 
10:10 PM
@Machavity for now I just moved that existing Note up (and consolidated the Notes; IMHO it’d be even better just to have a single Notes section there, but two of those are generated by macros, so it’s possible to combine them). wiki.developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notification/…
 
10:46 PM
@sideshowbarker Cool, thanks!
 
11:24 PM
\o
 
o/
Nice hat :)
 
It's even got bells on it :=)
 
All the bells, but no whistles, sadly
 

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