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12:00 PM
W.O.W.
 
Would you guys be so kind & give me a lil bit of feedback on that? Formatting etc?
 
Maybe I'll join the Maven tag on Docs...
 
I'd say it should have been 3 distinct questions
 
@DavidG thought about that... >.<
 
WTF
 
Sam
12:07 PM
@Seth Nice
 
THere are 2 autogenerated topics than auto comment themselves about possible improvements?!
 
@Sam Thanks :P
@Tunaki Dafuq?
 
@Tunaki Looks weird af.
 
I guess a new topic creates the same default improvement suggestions, makes sense to me
 
12:09 PM
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do, they don't make sense.
 
A new topic needs content, so it's a way to encourage people to add it.
So first one is to write an into to the topic, then second is how to install or setup
 
A gorious new age of cargo culting has dawned upon us.
 
Mah. Was a fair try... will try again when it starts making sense...
Wait, I can make edits and they have to be approved?
 
Yep. No insta edit
 
sigh
no-one is going to approve them!
 
12:19 PM
the only way to keep this new horde of rep whores at bay:P
 
Try it, you might be surprised :)
 
@Tunaki
 
@Tunaki Now you want robo reviewers don't you? ;)
 
Does it also affect tag score?
 
> Sam
> is now being unproductive
> on War Thunder
 
12:20 PM
how do you even freaking edit a topic?! I can ionly edit the title...
 
@Tunaki heh, at least you can
 
There are no topics in maven
 
I'm just trying to edit the default generated one...
 
@Tunaki click the one below
there should be a pencil for the title and one for each topic
 
woot I just made a first edit changing one letter...
 
12:24 PM
it must have been a very substantial edit:P
 
"expand examples to the side" may be the best thing!
looks less cluttered
 
I can only change the title anyway
 
@Tunaki gimme link
 
White one-box, my eyes >.<
 
12:25 PM
> This topic is also being edited by Tunaki.51 secs ago
shakes fist!
 
so do I copy-paste an answer or link to it?
Also, it's an answer of mine I'm talking about
 
ideally, you should create it
 
yeah right
 
it should resemble a documentation
 
I'll reformulate then...
(i.e. 90% copy-paste)
 
12:27 PM
At least I'm farming some comment upvotes on seth's question...
 
> If Q&A is chocolate, Documentation is peanut butter.
One of those will kill my dog...
 
@TimCastelijns How dare you! :D
 
@Machavity The other just makes him lick his lips a lot
 
@Machavity The other may kill a human with a peanut allergy
 
@Machavity When reading that, I wondered where they think the jelly should go :-P ...
 
12:38 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Chocolate, peanut butter and jelly... you Greeks have some weird food :P
 
@Machavity I'm not greek ... And that stuff would be typical american IMO
 
so I have two edits pending review
I am pretty sure no-one will review them, who's going to look at Maven anyway...
 
@Tunaki Hahahaha, how does that feel?
 
If I understood right, there's a queue per tag right?
 
I wonder what we should do with our well established canonical Q&A, should these be moved to the new documentation now?
 
12:43 PM
@Tunaki I think it's per topic and aggregate per tag
 
ok...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Also, what about self-Q&A's
:s
 
@Tunaki yes per tag
 
I really do not like all of this duplication that is going on right now. It is basically reusing the canonical's to farm rep.
 
@NathanOliver yes
that is exactly what this is
 
12:45 PM
At least from my part, these were mostly meant as canonicals.
 
IMHO SO C++ documentation will never replace cppreference.com.
 
@NathanOliver I once proposed you should gain rep on closing questions as dup on meta
 
@πάνταῥεῖ That was a great idea.
 
We should. Just a couple is more than enough. If I had 2 rep per dupe closure I would get 80 rep per day.
 
@NathanOliver LOL certainly not, it's way too chaotic
 
12:48 PM
The problem I think right now is that people are dumping shit on documentation because you get rewarded rep for it. If documentation did not reward you with rep (and/or badges) it would scare off the horde of rep farmers and only the people who are genuinely interested in creating high quality documentation would participate. It is similar to what we are doing here with our close votes
 
@TimCastelijns Exactly...
:/
 
@TimCastelijns That's closely related to my proposal for the meeting - Should we be involved in moderating Documentation?
 
Is there moderation on Docs?
 
I believe this room alone could already go to great lengths to fight off plagiarism and garbage, given we have the tools for that
 
@Tunaki You can flag stuff
 
12:49 PM
I don't want to moderate that crap.
 
Changes and creations are reviewed Tunaki
 
@Tunaki You moderate already, get over it =p
 
True :)
 
Docs needs a "Too Minor" rejection like editing had
 
Maybe people should just calm down a little and let the dust settle before slamming the whole documentation thing? It may be great or terrible, but only time will tell.
 
12:52 PM
@DavidG I think we have seen enough of the impact that rep-whoring can have on quality :/
 
@ryanyuyu Thanks for the comment, but shouldn't we discuss it during the meeting? xD
 
Biggest thing they need to fix is the rep cap. After that the rest is just going to work out over time as people get used to it.
 
Oh wait you wrote that.
Won't tl;dr next time then =p
 
well, this is bizarre, there are three suggestions in the git .gitignore topic, one of them is good but changes the wording in a way that is detrimental, the other two doesn't address any problem since the thing they are adding is already there...
 
You get freaking 10 rep for editing a doc entry?!
Dafuq is this...
 
12:53 PM
@Seth no rep for editing, 10 rep for every upvote (except your own) on any example you edit
 
@Quill Oh.
That's even worse.
 
Let's go on a typo-hunt...
 
I think I'll take a few days off and see how this whole funky business of SO turns out... -.-
 
Yes, yes it is. I'm writing a meta post right now about it ;-)
 
@NathanOliver Adam is checking it. c(:
 
12:56 PM
They're just throwing rep for nothing like candy in carnival, I can see how bad this will degrade quickly and taken over by the temple monkeys
 
Saw that. Needs to check faster ;)
 
@πάνταῥεῖ "[...] and will indefinitely lead to an inflation of rep over the next couple of days/weeks/months. That's bad."
:>
Say byebye to the value of your reps, because as of right now the ratio is going down faster than the british pound after the referendum ~_~
 
We call that doxit :-D ...
 
@Seth oh burn to the brits
 
@NathanOliver Huehue :D
 
12:59 PM
@Kyll yeah. I figured I'd address that before I forgot. Also, I might not be as active in this upcoming meeting.
 
@Seth not if I reject them alll ...
 
Oh, feel free to comment on the issues for the room meeting, they are issues exactly for that.
 
@rene Why does your avatar seem more pixelated than usual?....
 
clarification... (dis)agreement...
 
@rene Are you going to war?
 
1:02 PM
afk
 
rene is always at war
 
@πάνταῥεῖ hey, at least it'll distract rep whores from the main site...right?:P
 
@Tunaki Dayum...
@AndrasDeak Yeah!...
 
I can hardly wait until doc-nurtured gold badgers start moderating the main site
 
Except that those rep whores will have full privileges in 1/100 of the time that you usually need...
 
1:04 PM
@AndrasDeak They gave them their native gettho now, yes ...
 
=> Privilege abuse, here we come!
SOCVR => Stack Overflow Civil War Resistance!
 
I'm so not up for that.
 
I'm glad that my gut-instinct based assessment of docs, lacking almost any research effort, is backed up by other users who may or may not have thought it more through
 
@Quill Upvoted, faved, commented. That has to stop asap.
 
1:06 PM
@Seth You made the featured meta question list :)
 
@DavidG o.o Nice! :D
 
Expect an influx of comments/votes!
 
I'd like to thank my (non-existant) friends, my family, and - of course - the SOCVR-room for allowing me to finally fulfill my dream!
Oh boy >.<
 
user3956566
like seriously one per second for 16000 markers, that is not a reasonable speed and the whole answer is an oxymoron
 
@Yvette I have no clue what that post is about :c
@Yvette And hi :D Long time no see, spearrel :>
 
1:13 PM
morning!
 
Hiya gunr
 
Takes 2 rejecters to close a request on Docs apparently
 
OMG do all editors share in the doc rep?
 
No rep for getting your topic request upvoted though, probably just as well.
 
yay, my first bug reported
 
1:23 PM
Documentation aka FGITW scaled way, way up.
 
Oh god
 
this is just crazy. 1660 rep and counting.
 
I have "This topic is also being edited" by at least 100 people
 
user3956566
@Seth loading 16000 markers on a map at a rate of one second per marker will take 16000 seconds to load and render the map
 
Moving on...
 
1:26 PM
@NathanOliver I wouldn't worry about it, that rep will almost certainly get removed (at least any that puts them above cap)
 
One can only hope.
 
BTW, would I be able to dupe hammer questions with a link to a documented answer?
 
One can only hope.
 
they need to turn the rep off...
 
@Yvette Oh dayum.
@TylerH Yes :P ....
 
1:30 PM
@Quill interesting question, getting a lot of attention
 
@TylerH It's currently discussed on meta: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/328491/…
 
Why the hell they didn't include a daily rep cap is beyond me
 
they thought they did
 
@NathanOliver Clearly I picked the wrong topics to document. Or I'm just overestimating the interest in PHP. Probably the latter
 
FFS
There's a concurrent edit even on Maven...
 
@Tunaki Tuna going nuts
 
too many tabs open currently trying to fight these fires
 
Inb4 the great big SO war of 2016
 
so what happens when there are 2 edits on the same example?
the first one to be approved wins and the 2nd poofs?
 
1:34 PM
approve/reject the other, then go back and try again... btw, did you reboot?
 
@Tunaki You get notified while editing when someone else starts editing
and vice versa
they also both get approved
happened yesterday w/ me in CSS
 
I wonder how they manage merge conflcts
 
@TylerH How does that work when 2 are very different?
 
@AndrasDeak SOCVR =/= Stack Overflow Close Vote Reviewers. SOCVR == Stack Overflow Civil War Resistance...
 
@Tunaki If they cover the same part of the post (e.g. make two edits to the same content) the newer one takes precedent as far as I have seen
 
1:36 PM
@Seth wait, is the resistance the anarchy side or just one side?
 
I'm definitely out of it, it makes no sense, I would just copy-paste answers anyway.
 
@Braiam The resistance is the small group of survivors.
 
Ideally topics should be things that can't be asked...
 
Thanks Docs Beta!
 
I appreciate the evangelism in this post but it comes off as an ad for SOCVR
 
1:38 PM
don't get too comfortably...
 
Also I'm the temp smokey for a bit
 
@Braiam yeah, topics on Docs should be 'too broad' for questions typically
or RTFM
 
Aaaaand, I've invented
 
@Quill Wrong room. SOCVFinder is a seperate room.
 
oh lol ;-;
 
1:40 PM
@Quill I didn't know that either :p
 
@Braiam Literally everything that I see here stackoverflow.com/documentation/java/topics are copy-paste of answers
everything
 
There are gonna be some great acronyms built around Docs
 
Same for C++. I recognize some of the code snippets as I see them enough for dupe closure.
 
Stack Overflow Documentation... SOD
 
@TylerH SUCKS would be a better abbreviation.
-_- I was seriously excited for this to be released.
 
1:43 PM
Yeah it should not have gone live one day after moving to closed beta
 
the SOdb sounds better
 
@Quill What's the "b" for? :o
 
On the plus side now it's possible for me to get the rep cap badge...
 
in Documentation Public Beta, 21 mins ago, by hairboat
it's not broken, it's beta ;)
 
actually no it's not because it won't detect hitting the rep cap T_T
 
1:44 PM
@TylerH I just got it on Meta
 
@Quill MSE or MSO?
 
weird
you don't get rep on MSO
 
it's not counted but you get the badge for it
 
@TylerH You don't get rep but you get all rep based badges
 
1:47 PM
I still can ninja, great
:)
 
there should be rep for ninja'ing in chat
:)
 
@Tunaki it needs three levels: white-belt, black-belt, Chuck Norris
 
@Tunaki They should open upvoting (and earning rep) for the most funny avatar.
 
Something tells me they're gonna have to roll back all Docs rep...
 
1:52 PM
I'm sure I'd hit the daily rep cap for that everytime
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Right? And username also. -1 for unreadable usernames (like, in Greek for example) :p
 
-1 : For overtaking The Skeet I need this feature .... — rene 27 mins ago
 
@Tunaki Could be this gets out balanced
 
:)
 
> I agree on both problems. Especially on rep inflation. How do you like +560 rep for mere edit with minor comment added? It's not bad. It's badly broken MSO comment
 
1:58 PM
I'm going to try an experiment. Setup a new account, hunt typos all day ("no edit is too minor") and see if I can get 3k close vote privileges.
 
@Tunaki I don't see anything wrong with doing a comprehensive summary of the best answers (that would be great actually--and a lot of work) as long as these also linked to the doc
 
Sam
@ryanyuyu All the best
 
I'll be really sad, if that account gets more rep than my main one.
 
@Tunaki you seeing this? meta.stackoverflow.com/q/328501/792066
 
dang, now is not the time for a meeting -_-
 
2:01 PM
@user2314737 but, why would you want that in two freaking places?
duplicating content shouldn't be what whatever you make as canonical, which btw, which is more canon, docs, so, or the actual code?
 
@Braiam I closed the tab.
Not re-opening it.
 
:(
 
hhhh WTF
 
if someone wants free rep, you can dump the Maven book books.sonatype.com/mvnref-book/reference and create topics...
3
it's even already properly structured, topic is a chapter, examples are sections
 
Sam
brb, gonna farm to 10k on docs
2
 
2:04 PM
Need to ask a question on SO. here goes nothing ;)
 
Sometimes I wonder what they were thinking
 
@Drew This is Stack Exchange's attempt at being more popular than Pokemon Go
 
I've created the topic recursion in Java and: No, we should not! The thing is, documentation is new and I did not find a more appropriate place to put this topic. Is there a way to put it somewhere more generic? — hamena314 2 hours ago
 
JAL
hi all
woo documentation!
 
Sam
Hiya
 
2:08 PM
Hey
 
JAL
So how does rep work on Documentation? Is there a meta on that?
 
@Braiam good point. The most upvoted question/answer on a given topic is already a piece of documentation but maybe in the documentation one could merge several answers, remove the noisy ones, have everything in one place. I don't know, I'm trying to justify this Documentation for myself it's not yet clear to me what it should be
 
Sam
in The Ministry of Silly Hats, 1 min ago, by Sam
@MadaraUchiha You get rep from UVs on anything you edit. And a few other (minor) things.
 
@JAL Do anything get LOTS of repo
 
Sam
tl;dr ^
 
2:08 PM
@NathanOliver noob! Shame! :D
 
JAL
wow
to the rep farm!
 
@JAL Oh there's a Meta alright
 
@JAL I think the record is around 2k rep so far today
 
That might be me @DavidG? Im at 1900
For today
 
Possibly yeah
 
2:10 PM
I found someone who actually called all of this. Someone actually did. "The site is awesome and you should use it, but it's a game, a game of grinding. Warlords of Documentation might be the thing that changes that."
Hell yeah it did.
 
still @Seth
something about user profiles?
 
It was just about the thing he wrote. One sec, editting.
 
JAL
Where is the approval queue?
oh I see on that dashboard
 
@JAL there's no "queue", you just go to the dashboard and see what's pending
 
who approves stuff?
 
2:15 PM
Anyone
 
@DavidG Did someone say "VOTING RING"?
This is wrong on so many levels... I'm done for today. Cya tomorrow guys.
 
lol, take care
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: create a countdown timer in excel 2010 using VBA (excel) by Mr Alvin on stackoverflow.com
 
have "a long walk"
 
Sam
Cya @Seth
 
@kayess is he a stand-up comedian?
 
@kayess Oh, that is cool
 
@AndrasDeak Hm nope ?
 
@kayess Did you see the preview of the .Net Core docs that has live code in it?
 
oh OK:P
 
2:18 PM
@DavidG Nope not yet, where is it ? Live code??
 
@kayess Not available to see yet, it was in a Hanselman video. They were typing C# into web browsers and running it live.
 
@DavidG Oh just like the C# Interactive in VS2015 pro+
 
Yeah pretty much. The docs are built directly from Github too, pretty cool
 
Btw just approved some of your c# docu additions:p
 
Mine?
 
2:21 PM
Hmm then maybe not :p
 
I have one waiting, just the one though
 
yep that one
 
Guess I need 2nd person to approve it too
 
@TimCastelijns It got upvotees \o/
 
@NathanOliver nice. 6 for you and 9 for Lightness. C++ is a busy tag it seems
in only 18 minutes
 
2:26 PM
> In the future, docs.microsoft.com will integrate a curated list of Stack Overflow documentation samples directly into Microsoft API documentation.
@intboolstring Seen any rep rollback yet? Some people are reporting it now
 
Not yet @DavidG
In theory I should keep all my rep from beta which was 700+ I think
 
Yeah, just not the 2k :)
 
@intboolstring If they roll back rep to where it went live it should be fine. Or just give docs its own 200 cap retroactive
 
@TimCastelijns It can be. Good Q&A's are normally well rewarded.
 
> Stack Overflow Documentation content will be integrated into docs.microsoft.com API reference content in the future
Nice
Duplicated wasn't enough.
 
JAL
2:32 PM
Can I post requests here for documentation?
 
Let's triplicate it!
 
JAL
just found one with a lot of copied content
 
mah will go back to my hole
 
Haha
 
2:33 PM
@Tunaki you mean pond?
 
@JAL no please... let us not start moderating Docs right now
 
or is a pit?
 
@Braiam No it's bond, james bond
 
@JAL they are all like that :p
 
JAL
lol
ok thanks Tuna
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah, but my comment is a TL;DR for that :)
 
@Quill I'm not sure your post can be considered a feature request
 
@DavidG ok:P
 
> for proposals of new features on the site, or requests for a change to an existing feature.
fits like a glove
 
aha ok sorry
 
2:36 PM
@AndrasDeak Tuna's was just the "DR" part of "TL;DR" :)
 
:(
 
Tuna's still in maven shock
brings a baguette for Tunaki
 
Does this qualify as typo/unlikely to help future visitors? Or as a duplicate of questions that show you have to call getText()?
 
Imo yes
 
I'd search a dupe, lack of one, close as typo.
 
2:43 PM
couldn't find dupe for equals with string directly
there are tons of dupes about using getText
 
It's fine, OP didn't bother to search at all. At least you tried
 
user3956566
@NathanOliver isn't there the 200 rep cap for documentation?
 
@Yvette Nope
 
user3956566
@Machavity so rep now means nothing
 
it never did mean anything
 
2:47 PM
yup
in The Ministry of Silly Hats, 41 mins ago, by Andras Deak
well, as long as privilege limits are not changed in the future, there's no objective loss coming to users on main who ignore docs
 
lets do something more interesting, like spot the mistake on this query twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/756136754168684545
 
@Yvette There is not or wasn't. Not sure if they fixed it.
 
@NathanOliver it is still broken (cc @Yvette)
 
user3956566
@Machavity yeh, it just means the site content is going to be even crappier
 
2:51 PM
ty rene
and of course I get a downvote on my question. Guess you can't please everyone.
 
@Braiam :D
 
@NathanOliver You got plenty left ;-)
 
I just love the random down votes on an otherwise good post. That make you wonder what that person was think. Well anyway on to closing things again now that my curiosity has been sated. Maybe I'll ask another question next year ;).
 
@NathanOliver is that operator[] thingy a new feature?
 
Yeah that was me, because I started the C++ revolution
 

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