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12:00 AM
@rgchris O no, you would really be upsetting my Alpaca-raising friends...
 
@HostileFork What do your friends do with the ones they raise?
Strip them of their hair for resale ?
 
@GrahamChiu Make sweaters and handbags from the fur, pretty much.
 
So, it's a sweat shop?
 
A bit of a pet shop too. I'm not really into larger animals (horses, llamas, etc.) myself but some people really like them.
 
I had a friend in the UK who was heavily into protecting donkeys
I thought she was kinda wierd in that!
 
12:09 AM
I guess everyone has a spirit animal and/or piece of cutlery.
 
No one is taking my Alien Queen from me!
@HostileFork how's the Red icon set for Android going?
 
Should be easier for the person who was making the 3-D stack to do that one. Although I did think that at the lowest "favicon" resolutions that it would flip to being a flat stack and not try to go 3-D. I don't know if Android icons should follow that strategy or not of not trying to show it on a side angle.
I went that direction with the Rebol icon, which seems sensible considering how small Android icons look on my phone
 
do you have a larger screen for Android?
 
Only Android I have is the Galaxy Nexus and an old Motorola Droid. Hm, I should have tried Rebol on that.
Was going to buy a Nexus 7 but they didn't announce the upgrade yet
 
What upgrade?
 
12:18 AM
Word on the street is processor upgrade and retina display for the next one
 
The N7 needs a front facing camera!
and a sdcard slot
and .. a mini hdmi port
 
I don't know if I'd use the HDMI port myself, and possibly not the camera much either, but I do hate it when there's no SDcard slot in these things...or the battery is glued in...or whatever
 
I have xbmc loaded on mine .. sometimes I'd like to plug it into the TV
And I need to take pictures for G+
Perhaps I need a clip on periscope thingy for the N7 to turn the camera around?
Hmm .. an idea for kickstarter!
 
@HostileFork Battery is not glued in on the Nexus 7 ifixit.org/2850/google-nexus-7-teardown - interesting tear down article. I miss having an HDMI and micro SD slot, but it is still a fun device
 
Hmm.. the R3GUI dialect does not cope with comments :(
 
12:26 AM
@johnk Well I'm torn on whether to wait or not.
 
Probably people out there who want to upgrade .. check the auction sites?
 
12:38 AM
People seem to have insane ideas about what things are worth...I saw someone trying to sell one with a completely shattered screen for $75. I can't find a used one for any decent price locally, I'd just buy a new one. The issue isn't the price it's just whether I want to wait for a better model that everyone says is around the corner.
 
@HostileFork What you need is this site for Google products buyersguide.macrumors.com
 
There are always going to be better models around the corner.
But the N7 is getting a bit old now ...
 
 
2 hours later…
2:52 AM
@user2423554 Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
Rebolforces site was hacked and defaced by a 0 day exploit. Allen took the site down to stop infecting people .. he's not sure when he will find the time to bring it up again. I suggested using S3
 
3:24 AM
@Respectech Any update on Carl's visit to this site?
Will he have some roku devices to give away to attendees? :)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:35 AM
@HostileFork I might skip over the worst of the details then. I didn't order it myself though...
Just tried a little from someone else's dish.
 
5:32 AM
about 50% of the way through the r3gui demo port :(
 
 
2 hours later…
7:23 AM
I often copy some rebol code and paste it to a repl only to be thrown by the lack of multi line support. Simple workaround is to define do-clip: does [ do read clipboard:// ]
(for the platforms/builds where clipboard is supported)
 
which is windows?
 
Looks like it to me. Linux just returns none. Mac is at home so will try later.
Looking on CC I don't see a ticket for extending clipboard support to other platforms. Shall I add it in?
 
sure
 
I think it is clearer to show what is being executed do-clip: does [ do c: read clipboard:// print c ]
Which bleeds c into to the system/contexts/user .. hmph
Take 3
do-clip: funct [] [ do c: read clipboard:// print c ]
 
7:51 AM
>> do-clip: has [ c ][ c: read clipboard:// if not script? c [ insert head c "Rebol []^/" ] print c do c ]
@johnk take 4
 
do-clip: func [] [do probe read clipboard://]
 
8:02 AM
This is the progress on the gui demo port trello.com/card/…
some of the others are partially done and others not attempted yet
 
posted on May 27, 2013 by johnk

[Wish] Clipboard:// does not work correctly across all platforms

 
Carl used 'do and I think @Pekr's suggestion of restoring this instead of 'do-action or as an alternative sounds sensible to me
Having to type do-action everywhere is a pain since VID never required this
Others might like the literate do-action
 
8:42 AM
Thanks @earl. Most concise, take 5 do-clip: does [do probe read clipboard://]
@GrahamChiu I didn't know about script?. Very handy
 
@Rebolek Do you know if switch-layout is the same as Carl's switch-panel ?
 
@GrahamChiu It should be.
 
And are make-panel and layout/only the same?
 
But AFAIK, there were some problems with the transition effects.
 
@rebolek I'm getting errors on switch-layout
Are the transition effects no longer supported then?
 
8:57 AM
@GrahamChiu Yes, they are not supported right now. You should use set-content instead.
 
ok
before you could link a number of toggles together
is that supported still?
 
@GrahamChiu I guess this should work. Linking is done with on-mutex handler.
 
got an example?
 
And do-related function.
Let me see...
@GrahamChiu Do you mean toggle or radio?
 
toggle
Carl had this
		group [
			toggle "REBOL.com" of 'site do [read-site rebol.com]
			toggle "REBOL.net" of 'site do [read-site rebol.net]
			toggle "REBOL.org" of 'site do [read-site rebol.org]
		]
 
9:07 AM
How should this work?
 
I had to change mine to
			t01: toggle "REBOL.com" on-action [
				set-face t02 false
				set-face t03 false
				if error? set/any 'err try [
					read-site rebol.com
				][
					alert mold err
				]
			]
clicking on one toggle turns off the others
Looks like 'site grouped them together
 
So they work like radio buttons then?
 
yes
 
ok, wait a moment
@GrahamChiu Looking at the source I can see that mutex linking is currently enabled for radio only.
 
ok
I'll keep my code as is then
How to change the color of a scroller?
I mean a progress bar
 
9:19 AM
@GrahamChiu It should support pair! but looks like it doesn't. Bug.
 
Carl's demo used a block of 3 pairs
but that doesn't work either
 
3 pairs? Why so much?
 
I guess he created a gradient ?
3 tuples
 
Ah, ok. Gradients are now created using materials.
But setting size with pair! should work, I'll check it.
 
Can we set the text cursor still?
 
9:22 AM
In text-area? yes.
 
[set-face/field ts 0 'locate]
what's the new way?
 
There's move-cursor function.
 
does that work to absolute position?
 
No. We should add new mode for this.
 
move-cursor face 'home
count ; what's this for?
true/false
button "Goto 0" on-action [ move-cursor ts 'home 0 false ]

doesn't work for me
** Script error: head does not allow none! for its series argument
** Where: any switch move-cursor actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if ac
tor all foreach do-actor case do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-
up loop -apply- wait forever try do-events if view catch either either -apply- d
o
** Near: any [tc head cursor]
move-cursor: funct [
    {Move cursor up, down, left, right, home, end, or to a position.}
    face [object!]
    action [word!]
    count
    select? "Add to marked text (selection)"
] [
Looks like it was intended to support an absolute position ?
 
9:39 AM
@ManishSharma Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
9:51 AM
@GrahamChiu I'm not sure about count, I use it in my gui console like this: move-cursor text-box 'head no no
 
ok, let me try
 
However, text-handling needs complete rewrite in R3GUI. It's mostly original Carl's code that doesn't support rich-text. It's ok for simple fields but not usable for areas with color syntax etc.
 
nope .. not working like that for me
** Script error: loop does not allow logic! for its count argument
** Where: switch move-cursor actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if actor
all foreach do-actor case do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up
oop -apply- wait forever try do-events if view catch either either -apply- do
** Near: switch action [
    left [
        sc: any [state/mark-tail ...
So, count has to be an integer
 
That's strange, I have this code that works for me:
if get-facet face 'last-word [
move-cursor text-box 'tail no no
insert-text-face text-box #" "
draw-face face
pass?: false
]
 
I'll try 'tail instead of 'home
** Script error: tail does not allow none! for its series argument
** Where: switch move-cursor actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if actor
all foreach do-actor case do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up
oop -apply- wait forever try do-events if view catch either either -apply- do
** Near: switch action [
    left [
        sc: any [state/mark-tail ...
button "Goto tail" on-action [ move-cursor ts 'tail no no ]
I'm using a text-box ; does that make a difference?
 
10:00 AM
@Samuel Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
maybe if I use the official r3gui instead of Cyphre's one
 
It should work same for all text styles.
@GrahamChiu I have patched version of text styles that isn't part of R3GUI yet. Please wait until I find some time to push my console to github and try it with my version then.
 
nope, same error
Ok, time for me to go to bed
I've got quite a lot of Carl's demo now working
Just need to do the hard parts!
 
great progress!
:)
 
 
2 hours later…
12:14 PM
@Erick Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
12:57 PM
This Friday I am off to the Sydney Linux Users Group and I will take the opportunity to plug rebol where I can. The group is very technical with a bit of a hardware focus, but very friendly. I will do a talk there on rebol, but not this month as I feel we still have a bit of work to get the public sites sorted out. @brett you would be very welcome to come along if you are interested. You may find a number of people who would heave fun dissecting your dead netbook :-)
 
johnk - maybe you could also mention the Red variant :-)
 
Of course :-) - those guys would probably find Red even more interesting
 
1:46 PM
@HostileFork - I would like to know your opinion on the R3 GUI aestetics and measures. I know the design is always very subjective, but I am going to throw in first 50 USD (feel free to add to that donation), to help bringing R3 GUI a better skin. Here's the comparison of old Carl's GUI, and Saphirion's R3-GUI: xidys.com/pekr/r3-gui-comparison.jpg
What I think is, that the measures are completly off for scrollers, buttons, and fields, we could start with that. IMO Carl's scroller is rather OK (pixel wise, not design wise). I don't necessarily mind grey color, but the thing does not have to look worse, than AmigaOS 1.x 30 years ago :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:33 PM
@pekr Hmmm, yep, well this does get back to my complaints about reinventing wheels. My only experience really looking into a skinning system was when I looked at how skins were done in Firefox a long, long time ago: Workaround for Firefox 2 Scroll Bar Bug on Mac
Hello @Erick - welcome to StackOverflow, and the room where we discuss the Rebol language (most of the time). :-) StackOverflow requires you have 20 points to chat, but that's not too hard to get--and you can get it by asking or answering questions and receiving upvotes. You can look through the tags for something you might know, or ask a question of your own.
Hi @DocKimbel ... how goes the Android? Graham was asking me about the icon. How was that faring, did the person send back an all-red and evenly-proportioned one?
 
Hey Brian, I'm still on the low-level parts, working on some fixes and improvements for the ARM code emitter. I can load a Red shared lib from an Android java app so far, and output messages in the logcat. No news about the Red icon.
 
@pekr I feel that reinventing the wheel is probably bad...it would be nice to have compatibility with an existing theming system and use their themes. Qt has a widget style API...I'd suggest copying their parameterizations and then being compatible with any themes they have...including the one for looks compatible to Windows or Mac.
@DocKimbel Sounds cool. So I think one of our most important categories to deal with on the Rebol Trello is Standardize Syntax for Rebol and Red...one of the first steps is to just basically enumerate all the differences. At the conference I'd like it if we can get it ratified to the point where Rebol and Red agree on what a LOADable syntax is.
 
@HostileFork - that's the old way. Our API is partially done (material system), it surely would be difficult to adhere to some outer system, more so because REBOL is imo simply different. I thought more about some gfx tips, not technology tips :-)
 
So that means going in with a proposal that's a shoe-in for agreement
@pekr Well, I actually have come to like the Windows 8 way of doing things as far as Windows goes. Mac scroll bars always seemed too big and noisy...and in this era where most scrolling is done with two finger touches or middle mouse buttons they can often be superfluous. Chrome agrees, there's a thin gray scroll bar on mac, subtle.
I say copy something people are used to, so at least if anything is bad they can't blame Rebol for it!
 
3:53 PM
@HostileFork I got no news at all about the sponsoring of my trip to Montreal by the organizers, so for now, I simply assume that I won't be able to come.
 
@pekr I've never really dealt with skinning. I think there's too much gradient-ing, especially on the right one. Gradients do not look modern and have fallen from favor. I'd say lose that for starters.
@DocKimbel I'm still in for some sponsorship on that. But it looks to be about $1700 for a round trip flight, I think. Have you looked at the cost lately?
 
About 1300€ at least, not including local expenses.
 
Well, as I said I will be bringing the car...so can help with transportation, e.g. airport pickup. Perhaps maxim or another Montrealian could offer a place to stay, so that wouldn't be a problem?
I'll get the Doc At the Montreal Kickstarter started off with the $400 U.S. previously pledged to the icon which will hopefully get drawn anyway. :-)
So that leaves $1300 US. We need to set up one of those pledge drives, where depending on how much you donate you get a special gift. Red tote bags...
@rgchris So how much are you going to pledge(in even multiples of $100, for... convenience) to the @DocKimbel in Montreal Kickstarter? A worthier cause you cannot find!!
@pekr It also looks like there's no subpixel rendering on those fonts...blocky. Is there a reason?
I'd kill the attempt to shadow the characters on the buttons and use clean contrast
Discussion is regarding:
 
 
1 hour later…
5:28 PM
@HostileFork Most fonts in R3GUI have anti-aliasing turned off. I guess it's because it looks more like R2? Anyway, it can be switched easily.
 
@rebolek Switching sounds like a plan. And the gradients and shadows on text need to go. Clean design has won over what used to pass as "glitzy" but now just looks like trying to make your house look fancy via wallpaper. Design is more than that. (My apartment... no wallpaper. :-))
 
@HostileFork I agree that non-aliased fonts look strange. I'd like to work on new skin a bit. But I think I have to start with scroller or @pekr won't stop ranting ;)
 
@rebolek He'll stop if you do? :-)
If that actually works, then I think we should all pitch in to write the ICMP protocol for Shadwolf and just get it done. Ignore what earl says. :-P
Speaking of our pet peeves, I have been thinking about /INTO and started to wonder if /ONTO might be another useful refinement name.
 
@HostileFork I don't know, but I can try :) He's right that current skin is not very consistent. But I'm not sure if Shadwolf is right about PING :)
 
APPEND/ONTO [a b c] [d] => [a b c d] ... APPEND [a b c] [d] => [a b c [d]] ... APPEND [a b c] quote (d) => [a b c (d)] .... APPEND/ONTO [a b c] quote (d) => [a b c d]
BrianH says that INTO has very specific conventions, but ONTO is unheard of
Killing /ONLY is another noble cause!
 
5:42 PM
I like /ONLY.
 
I feel it is meaningless/confusing... That's like saying "hey, take-out-the-trash. Oh, no, but ONLY take-out-the-trash!" Well if operations are named what they are, then asking to take out the trash should do only that...not check the mail, or walk the dog. ONLY is what an operation should be; only what you asked for!
Its variant application is confusing and I am certain would not test well with new users. Of course, one can get used to anything... no matter how ridiculous. Americans use the English system of measurement, which not even the British use! Just Myanmar and Liberia. (!)
 
@ShuklaSannidhya Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
But INTO and ONTO could also be juxtaposed the other way. "INTO" could be the default for APPEND, and ONTO could be defined as the opposite of INTO. Backwards of what I say above.
Hello @ShuklaSannidhya ... I'm guessing you probably haven't heard of Rebol. Have a second to hear our pitch? :-)
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 +]
append code 2
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [print 1 +] append code 2 do code
3
 
@ShuklaSannidhya Rebol has some LISP heritage, but is designed to be more literate... with a microscopic and highly tuned interpreter. It can manipulate its own code as a data structure, and there are quite a number of surprising things that can be demonstrated...even in this room, with the help of our friendly bot.
@RebolBot
print {"Haven't you wondered, @ShuklaSannidhya," asked the {RebolBot}, "why languages don't use string delimiters like asymmetric braces? When you think about it, choosing alternatives like "double quotes" and 'single quotes' doesn't work very well with English. Braces would be nicer. See? :-)"}
 
5:55 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"Haven't you wondered, @ShuklaSannidhya," asked the {RebolBot}, "why languages don't use string delimiters like asymmetric braces?  When you think about it, choosing alternatives like "double quotes" and 'single quotes' doesn't work very well with English.  Braces would be nicer.  See?  :-)"}
"Haven't you wondered, @ShuklaSannidhya," asked the {RebolBot}, "why languages don't use string delimiters like asymmetric braces?  When you think about it, choosing alternatives like "double quotes" and 'single quotes' doesn't work ver
 
6:05 PM
@idunno Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ
 
Greetings @idunno. I have upvoted your Chrome question as it seems reasonable, and that gets you to the "20 points to chat" level. :-)
@idunno It takes a little time for the score to propagate through the caches between the sites, so it will take a few minutes. But while you're waiting, you can set your avatar...which is another thing that takes a bit of time to propagate! You can also read our FAQ
We are here night and day...telling the tales of Rebol and Red...! Noble languages with interesting goals, open source, and in the tradition of byte miserliness...
And heya @draegtun... what's news?
I'm writing some Windows Driver code. Ah, memory lane.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:46 PM
@DocKimbel I'd think your sponsorhip to Montreal is dependent on registrations, and registrations are dependent on the website which depends on Maxim
 
Then, I guess, I'll just stay home in July. ;-)
 
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh!
Where's the website!
 
Chris mentioned something about the website above
 
9:01 PM
@GrahamChiu I "voted" on it and set it to being past due. :-P
 
Tell you what, I can collect registrations from everyone .. just send the money to me!
@HostileFork Cool icon
Can we use it on your cards too? :)
 
@GrahamChiu Due dates, you mean? :-) Well, not very convenient to set them at the moment. If we want to move forward on the SL4A document I think it should be done as a dialect, so I was waiting on the samples for that to continue.
 
@HostileFork May not be the best candidate to get that ball rolling. Will look to see what I can contribute on my return...
 
I might have time to get back to that since the GUI demo port is on hold until Cyphre releases a new version of the GUI, which contains a number of known fixes for known bugs I encountered
 
@HostileFork Your urgency is noted.
 
9:15 PM
If you ever needed anyone to save the world by getting something done on time, max is not the guy!
 
@GrahamChiu Remind me (again) — R3 GUI is Windows-only?
 
Anyway, I posed this question in the rebcode room in altme
@rgchris AmigaOS4, Android, and Windows
 
Apple-phobic...
 
No financial incentives I would guess
Amiga port done by Amiga lead developer Steve Solie, who also ported AGG. Carl did the windows one, and Cyphre is doing the Android one which is being sponsored by community and Saphirion
So, needs someone who is interested in the Mac to do the port
 
Much like how the Android build runs, there'd have to be an Objective-C entry point that then flips over to calling the C. Would be easier than Android though, as Objective-C is semi-reasonable about being able to interface with straight C libs.
 
9:30 PM
AGG is C++
AFAIK
 
@GrahamChiu Are they using that for the Windows implementation?
 
Yes
 
That's a bit esoteric. Why not use something like SDL? :-/
 
Might have been the license at the time
Anyway there's history to this decision
 
SDL is different from AGG
 
9:43 PM
Originally Rebol/View came with its own graphics engine written by Carl or someone else at RT. But it wasn't able to do a lot of things which people wanted ( text on a spline .. do people really need that?? ), and Cyphre implemented AGG as a library call. Carl saw this and assumed it for the official version except it was built in rather than as a library.
@rebolek in Carl's demo, when he replaces a panel, there is no resizing of the panel, or the outer elements. Can we do this too? We only want to resize the panel when we resize everything.
And also you said there was a tab-panel style .. but I don't see it in the current release?
 
@GrahamChiu It's called tab-box
 
ahh .. ok :)
 
maybe the name can be changed :)
 
view [ tab-box 100x200 [ "1" [ button "1" ] "2" [ button "2" ]]]
well, they contain layouts so yes.
tab-panel is what I'm used to using from RebGUI so that seems natural to me
 
Ok, I discuss this with others. They will probably agree.
 
9:57 PM
in which case, I'd ask why switch-panel was changed to switch-layout :)
Why does the help system not find things that have been defined in the GUI?
I can do this
>> help tab-
No information on tab-
but it works on

help tab-box
 
Hm, I don't know. It probably needs some improvements on help.
 
Maybe the context it searches ?
@rebolbot
source help
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> source help
help: make function! [[
    "Prints information about words and values."
    'word [any-type!]
    /doc "Open web browser to related documentation."
    /local value args item type-name types tmp print-args
][
    if unset? get/any 'word [
        print trim/auto {
^-^-^-Use HELP or ? to see built-in info:

^-^-^-^-help insert
^-^-^-^-? insert

^-^-^-To search within the system, use quotes:

^-^-^-^-? "insert"

^-^-^-To browse online web documents:
 
10:55 PM
Rebol []

do %r3-gui.r3

view [
	vgroup [
		button "Tab box" on-action [
			set-content main-pan layout/only [
				tab-box ["1" [button "1"] "2" [button "2"]]
			]
		]
		main-pan: hpanel [
			text "Switch me out"
                                        pad 100x100
		] options [init-size: 300x500 max-size: 1000x1000]
	]
]
@rebolek I get this error

Script: "Untitled" Version: none Date: none
** Script error: in does not allow none! for its object argument
** Where: reduce either parse reduce-opts view unless actor all foreach do-actor
switch actor all foreach do-actor either -apply- apply -apply- apply if actor a
ll foreach do-actor either -apply- apply switch actor all foreach do-actor eithe
r -apply- apply switch actor all foreach do-actor either set-face actor all fore
ach do-actor make-layout actor all foreach do-actor if build-face -apply- apply
 
11:41 PM
@HostileFork I can add in another $100 - let me know where. It's funny, I used to go to a computer shop and buy software. Now we try as a group to make investments to direct the creation of software. Democracy could learn a thing or two from the software world :-)
 
@johnk Well I'd assume once we have all the pledges together we send them to Nenad to buy a ticket (via PayPal, or however it is he's been accepting donations for Red...)
 
@Adrian reviewing the r3gui chat in Altme, you were a frequent poster. Tried it since?
 
Not really, though GUIs are of interest to me. Just don't have much time at the moment.
I'm trying to follow what you're doing though.
 
@Adrian me too!
 
It is the case that we have network collaboration tools, and technically speaking there's "no real reason" to meet in person. However, I think of it as part summit, part calibration to get everyone on the same page, and a party too. It is rather important for Carl to be there so I hope he does...if nothing else, it's a vacation from all his Roku work for a weekend.
 
11:48 PM
Carl's original version looks like it might be the easier one to get something simple up and running.
For complex business apps .. I presume the latest versions are better suited.
I don't know if we can keep both going or not.
 

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